British Police and Chinese Guards surround the torch — Peter Macdiarmid/Getty Images
The Olympic Torch relay has moved through England and through much protest, lasting throughout the entire route through England. Due to concerns over the protests, at one point “the flame was rushed onto a double-decker bus decked out with the slogan “Light the Passion, Share the Dream” to escape crowds of anti-China campaigners.” (source) Naturally some felt the “sharing” was selfish:
. . . Julie Li, 28, also from China but living in Britain . . .”There is no connection with politics — games are games. It has nothing to do with politics. The people who are here to demonstrate just want to show off,”
Apparently the torch is lighting more passion than the Chinese Government can bear. It seems they actually wanted to have the PLA (People’s Liberation Army) oversea the Australian part of the relay. The Australian Government had to break it down to the Chinese, saying “We have explained to the Chinese Embassy that people have a democratic right in Australia to stage demonstrations and people are free to demonstrate when the torch does arrive but we would hope that demonstrations are peaceful and won’t disrupt the relay in any way.”
(UPDATE: Australian Attorney-General Robert McClelland has denied reports that China asked Australia for permission to help guard the Olympic touch when it comes to Australia.)
Feeling the passion seems to have the Chinese Government already curtailing the routes through San Francisco and Paris. The torch relay through France now is more like a routine patrol through a bad neighborhood in Iraq than Paris — “French torchbearers will be encircled by several hundred officers, some in riot police vehicles and on motorcycles, others on skates and on foot. Three boats were also to patrol the Seine River, and a helicopter was to fly over Paris” (AP news) — but wait, here’s the good part: what will happen when the torch makes its way from Nagano, Japan to Seoul and Pyongyang? Will Koreans protest the colonialism of an imperial China? Will there be Chinese Army personnel in Korea? Consider the observations of Kim Hye-Jin at globalvoicesonline who writes:
. . . Korean netizens are also busy making signature-seeking-campaigns or boycotting the Beijing Olympics. The participants who express their opinions on the internet and put their names on the campaigns are more and more.
but does this mean that there will be protests in Seoul or has anyone really noticed that the torch is coming here?
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Come on: this is the Protest Land! I can see 15 people already in front of the City Hall with their hands up and singing their tune.
Now I know that the second language in Australia is Chinse and the PM speaks Mandarin, but the PLA in Canberra? Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
As for protestors in Seoul, when was the last time protestors turned out en masse in Korea to protest something that wasn’t going to directly affect them? My guess is there will be a protest, but nothing on the scale of the other major cities.
If there was a protest, I’d participate. That’s some history-making stuff right there!
Oh man, I cracked up when I saw that protester’s in England tried to snuff the torch flame with fire extinguishers. LOL. At some point along the torch route the flame will be snuffed. Hope its captured on video with wide enough distribution for the average chinese citizen to witness.
oversea?
Pun?
Mondoo, one problem with your suggestion is that I really wonder if Chinese would see such as an attack on Chinese people, as a whole, instead of it actually being protest against their government — the Chinese Communist Party.
As per Howard French’s article “China again cues up its propaganda machine”, I seriously wonder if to many Chinese today are seriously blinded by nationalistic pride to really acknowledge the grevious faults of their government:
#4,
The symbolism of such a picture would be priceless…but there are actually several lanterns burning at the same time from with the torch is relit.
A couple of Chinese friends have said to me: You think Tibet looks as bad as Iraq right now? 100 people dead against about 100,000?
And I concur that I wish the honourable citizens of England would aim as much anger at their own (unelected) government as they are at the CCP.
I mean who the fuck elected Gordon Brown? His party? Nope. The electorate? Nope… “Electoral dictatorship”? I think we can cut the electoral part for the moment…
But it is great to see some vibrant protests going on, because if you think shooting monks is how to deal with dissent, you’ve gotta expect to have some opprobrium thrown at you. And rightly so. P.S. The above comment? My Han chinese friends seem to be quite introspective about it, and expressed anger about Tianamen sq. Strangely though, they think that the main way to combat their country’s old guard is to get rich. They actually see commercial activity as a form of political rebellion. I think that shows the massive gap in popular consciousness in China as to what their government currently stands for. Incidentally, most genuinely cutting debate in China and political criticism actually comes from Marxist intellectuals, somewhat ironically.
“grevious faults of their government”
Get off your moralizing high-horse and learn the facts: the PRC might have its faults, but it’s hardly the evil empire you make it out to be. Your condescending, holier-than-thou attitude is annoying and shrill. Your ignorance of the reality of Chinese society is astounding. I see you’ve already drunken the pro-Tibet kool-aid so there’s little hope left for you, but to others who may be more open-minded and not brainwashed by the propaganda, I urge you not to buy into this anti-Chinese hate-mongering.
China is an overwhelming success story, and Chinese citizens have every right to be proud of their country and their government. The Chinese people are free. They are free from repression; they are free to choose their lives; they are free to pursue their happiness; They are free to dissent. They don’t have the right to vote(yet). So what? China is a society in transition; one that is changing every day and getting better every day. Chinese people are far better off than they were ten years ago, and ten years from now they’ll be even better off. Cut them some slack. Just because they don’t subscribe to your overrated Judeo-Christian worldview doesn’t makte them bad.
If you don’t believe me, go and see for yourself. Visit China, talk to Chinese people. I think you’ll see the story is alot different from some of the crap being spewed here.
deleted (off topic)
What kool-aid have you been drinking? A simple web search will demonstrate your comments to be misinformed and divorced from factual reality. Just search under “human rights”:
http://www.hrichina.org/public/index
http://www.hrw.org/english/doc.....a12270.htm
and here is a well-balanced synopsis of China that does not mention Tibet:
http://www.globalissues.org/Hu...../China.asp
but, if one wants to be fair, they can read the Chinese Communist Party’s version of reality here:
http://www.humanrights.cn/en/
“. . . talk to Chinese people”? I have and they are very interesting too. Chinese society is not as easy to summarize but it is certainly not wholly as you have described either.
Though China has made what some could call improvements to their society, they are rudimentary at best, therefore are still “grevious faults” as I said. Such a comment is not an condemnation of Chinese leadership because of their colonization of Tibet and their insistence upon doing so but a summation of fact based upon actual events (review the links above). The Chinese Communist Party rules with one voice, one view and any dissenting opinion to such is not tolerated and can and will result in any number of repressive measures against any one or group of people that subscribe to that line of dissent. Just because some Chinese claim they are not repressed does not mean the government does not use repression either. I am sure there are North Koreans that would claim that they live in a wonderful society yet most wise observers would disagree with such a point of view.
Finally, if you think China government is so just and laudable, then move there and quit posting nonsense here or I will delete your off-topic rantings.
Off topic–I know–but…
@#11
I’m not sure I’d agree with that NK/China comparison. I think I’d put China somewhere between Saudi Arabia and Singapore. As someone who has lived in China, I think the majority of people live repression-free lives. I agree with #9 that the situation is (slowly) improving, as people get richer and they get better at skirting government regulation (although I’d hardly call them “free”). I agree with #11 that there is a lot of work to be done, especially for minorities.
Agit-prop, you cannot speak without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge.
I’d like to know what this “pro-tibet kool-aid” is, and if it has any other nasty side effects other than thinking that the people of Tibet should have a chance to elect their own government.
Comparisons between Tibet and Iraq are either a sign of poor rhetorical form, disingenuousness, or formidable stupidity. America does not claim Iraq as “an inalienable part of America” over which it has eternal sovereignty. And I assure you the Iraqi government has more autonomy than the TAR.
I also fail to see how having studied Chinese language and culture makes me anti-Chinese.
Right here and right now you will stop conflaing “anti-Chinese government” with “Anti-Chinese.” That is, unless you too have a penchant for Kool-Aid of a different flavor.
I know the situation in China is complex and I know that many Chinese are happy with their government, while many are not happy. In short, it’s complicated.
It is clear that debate with you would be futile and a poor use of my time, so I would appreciate it if you would spare yourself the trouble of writing a rebuttal and myself the agony of having to read it
Tip of the hat to R. Elgin
Does anyone know any protest information for the upcoming relay? I would love to participate, and it would be helpful to know how to contact the Tibetan groups, RSF and any others out to protest, especially since I don’t speak Korean and most Koreans I’ve talked to about this seem indifferent.
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