With demand for English teachers skyrocketing, foreign English teachers are now pushing for the creation of their own union, reports the Hankyung Shinmun.
While there’s no legal problems with foreign teachers establishing a union, the paper reports that should they become a pressure group and demand things like, oh, boosting wages, it could drive up private education costs.
According to people in the English education industry, some 40 foreign teachers have recently created a group called the Association for Teachers of English in Korea (ATEK), and are gathering members in order to form a labor union.
The union would be open to E and F visa holders involved in the public and private education fields.
According to members of ATEK, the group’s aim is to improve the position of foreign English teachers working in Korea.
According to Jason Thomas, a Canadian involved in ATEK, many English teachers cannot properly cope when employers delay payment of wages or fail to pay entirely. He said ATEK was formed to secure the rights of foreign English teachers and provide accurate information to English teachers coming to Korea to work.
He also said ATEK plans to apply formally to become a union once it gets 500 members. He explained the group would help with contract negotiations and make its voice heard on issues such as visa problems and health insurance.
함께 가자 우리 이 길을…
Sorry, anyway, the Ministry of Labor says there are no legal barriers to ATEK becoming a union. This is because according to current labor laws, the government cannot limit workers’ rights to join and form unions based on nationality, race or social position, and the English teachers who would join the union are legal residents who have received formal employment visas.
There is concern, however, that with demand for teachers on the rise thanks to the new government’s English education policies, the union might push for higher wages.
An official with a larger language hagwon in Seoul said E-2 visa regulations have recently been strengthened, worsening an existing shortage of teachers. He said his hagwon had blocked demands for higher wages through incentives such as providing airfare back to the teachers’ home countries, but now, he believed negotiations would grow more difficult.
An official with a small language hagwon in Nowon-gu said if foreign teachers demand wage hikes, small neighborhood hagwon would be forced to close, since even now large hagwon were taking their students. Sighing, he said he would have to either bring teachers from the Philippines instead of the United States or Canada, or change businesses.
Breaks your heart, I know.
UPDATE: Just got this email from Jason Thomas, who was quoted in the piece above:
At no time did I state, suggest, or even hint that the founding members of ATEK intended to register the organization as a trade union. Nor did I at any time state that ATEK intended to participate in the negotiation of employment contracts.
I have invited the newspaper to print a full, immediate and prominent correction notice.
The aims and purposes of our organization will not be decided by me, or by any other individual involved in its formation, but by members themselves.
Impressive hack job, if in fact it was a hack job — the problematic section was a direct quote. Guess it wouldn’t be the first time reporters put words in someone’s mouth… again, if that is what in fact happened.
53 Comments
“There is concern, however, that with demand for teachers on the rise thanks to the new government’s English education policies, the union might push for higher wages.”
Imagine that, a union that wants to improve the standard of living of its members. What will these crazy Engish teachers think of next?
BTW,
I know a Korean teacher who earns 7 million a month teaching about a couple of SAT prep classes per day at a hagwon. So, whatever. Cry me a river.
Whoops….teaching just a couple of…
Just curious what the incentive will be for employers to hire from within this new union. And who will enforce that all their demands are met? I mean, if I’m a hagwon owner and I’ve got a guy demanding 2.5 million a month, what’s stopping me from going out and hiring one of the many, many, many, many folks who didn’t do their homework at 1.7? If I’m one of the hagwons disinclined to provide insurance, severence, or overtime, what will motivate me to comply now? What, 3% of the teachers will strike? They’ll go to the Korea Times and write angry, poorly worded letters? And if I decide to join a union–which I’m pretty sure I won’t do—what’s to stop my employer from firing me rather than deal with them?
Look, we’re all interchangable. Sure, maybe some teachers with advanced degrees are a little better in the classroom—though I’m not convinced—but the pay is pretty much the same among all teachers, and the responsibilities are pretty much the same among all teachers. Doesn’t matter if you’re a PhD holder or a 22-year-old biology major . . . you’re still singing songs and playing the CD rom.
Sighing, he said he would have to either bring teachers from the Philippines instead of the United States or Canada, or change businesses.
Oh, God in heaven, not teachers from The Philippines. I mean, what a scary market alternative, eh? You’d better simply quit altogether. *sigh*
I can just imagine it now… expats chanting in unison, wearing mouth masks to hide their identity, banging thunder sticks, waving 2 by 4’s to the police, etc.
Do it. I wanna see that sh*t on youtube.
From my experience in hakwon land a few years ago..
The small local “mamma/pappa” hakwons are usually the ones working teachers illegally (inc Korean staff), and are the most superficial when selecting a foreign teachers, educational background isn’t a big factor. Class conditions aren’t always comfortable for student or teacher.
The larger ones, tend to follow (I say that very loosely) the labor laws with Korean and foreign teachers and some with 5+ foreign staff don’t even mind hiring a coloured, overweight, bald or dare I say it physically handicapped teacher to add diversity to staff numbers.
I like what Brian has to say, and I think this “union” might be a good idea, because he’s right. There’s no way a union could enforce higher wages, and to my knowledge, nobody from ATEK has suggested that higher wages are part of the agenda (though the Korean press has brought it up pretty quickly). What they have suggested is providing access to the legal and social tools necessary for fighting shitty hagwons. That’s a cause I can support. The only real problem here would be convincing neophytes to join up, since they’re the ones who most need such protection, and the least likely to want to throw down membership dues as soon as they get off the plane.
Another note: Is the number of E-2 teachers actually declining? I haven’t heard anyone definitively say so, just lots of speculation.
Final note: Brian, if all you’re doing is singing songs and playing the CD-ROM, then you’ve definitely made the point that all teachers are NOT interchangeable.
It would be embarrassing (but not surprising) if all the English teachers went on strike, and Korean students’ English skills stayed exactly the same.
I believe a national foreign ESL teachers’ union was established in Japan and it’s been a miserable failure. The expression “like herding cats” is often invoked in reference to trying to organize the notoriously fragmented and fractious expat ESL teacher “community.”
I honestly think that bringing in large numbers of lower-wage ESL teachers from India and the Philippines would be of ultimate benefit to South Korea’s ESL industry and greater econonmy.
@8
No, I don’t play CD-Roms, sing, or dance. But if you had a look at the elementary school curriculum—the nationwide, mandated curriculum—you’d know why I made the comment. Moreover, in spite of the lip-service paid in the papers and by the politicians, there’s not much of an interest what goes on in the native speakers’ classes. Yes, I know there are exceptions, and I’m really not talking about the exceptions here. It’s just hard to deny that most schools wouldn’t trade down for a 1.9-million-won newbie, especially when expeience and qualifications count for so little.
Like I said here and elsewhere many times, we’re still in large part fighting against the “whitey as English monkey” stereotype that pigeon-holes us into certain roles. So long as we have limited influence in the classroom and in the curriculum, there’s no reason to expect clout elsewhere.
And yes, yes, I know there are exceptions . . . but still. And since I happen to be an exception (most of the time), I doubt I’d compromise that by joining a fringe union.
~~~
And I think we know how “well”-organized the foreign community here is. When tons of people don’t even do their homework through Dave’s, Facebook, blogs, and forums, I doubt enough word would even trickle down to people. Hell, most people I run into had never heard of Bill Kapoun, so there you go.
And again, I’m just skeptical about what kind of leverage a union would provide. When we have so few legal recourses available to us now, and are battling wacky libel laws, corrupt officials, and uncooperative lawyers, I don’t think 3% of teachers going on strike will do a whole lot.
#9 Quite funny, and quite likely true
From what I have read, I don’t think the association will intend to run itself like a union, but as mentioned, I can’t see it welding enough power to do too much more that provide information and connect people to the right offices based on their complaints. I suppose as well they could offer ratings on schools, helping teachers find schools with good reputations, which in a way can be a bit of pressure on owners to treat their staff reasonably.
ok who will issue all the red head bands and drive the bongo truck outfitted with loud blaring speaks
“ok who will issue all the red head bands and drive the bongo truck outfitted with loud blaring speaks”
No bongo truck or blaring speaks, just blogs.
I think an ESL teachers’ union would be a good idea, but the only way it would attract significant membership here is if it flipped the switch on dues and actually paid people to join.
A waste of time, IMHO.
This is a joke. Unions can work, if you have majority of members who’s ultimate goal is to work and contribute toward bettering the society and their status in it. English teachers, majority of them, all they care about is making money, meeting girls, then leaving. If something goes wrong or things get tough, they pack it in and go home then whine about Korea. Few have the guts and the fortitude or the interest to stay to live in Korea. They are transients, they don’t stay long to really make a big impact.
“It’s just hard to deny that most schools wouldn’t trade down for a 1.9-million-won newbie, especially when expeience and qualifications count for so little.”
Agreed, 100%. I’ve been here for almost 4 years and think that my school could easily hire a newbie for 1.9million (no experience, just a Bachelors) to do the job I’m doing.
As for the teacher’s union. Great idea on paper, just don’t think we have enough clout to change things.
“English teachers, majority of them, all they care about is making money, meeting girls, then leaving.”
Some truth in that. Then again, I know a lot of people, who like myself, have been teaching here for over a decade and were teachers before they came here. (Or decided to become career teachers after a year or two here.) As for making money and meeting girls, is that somehow disfunctional? Wouldn’t that accurately describe most Korean guys in the mid/late-twenties? (Wanting to leave Korea might also be a possible future path for some of them too.)
“If something goes wrong or things get tough, they pack it in and go home then whine about Korea. Few have the guts and the fortitude or the interest to stay to live in Korea. They are transients, they don’t stay long to really make a big impact.”
In some cases, also true. But until one happens to stay a while, get a career going, and get married into the tribe, the option of settling down here beyond a year-to-year basis isn’t really on the table. Some are always going to be transients, but the ones who might be excellent candidates for staying also aren’t being asked to make a career/life of it here.
And that is why the unions probably won’t work: Foreign teachers, unlike their Korean counterparts, are not going to be invited/encouraged to stay the course. I suspect that teachers unions, the Korean government, and society at large are not comfortable with teachers - regardless of qualifications - immigrating here en masse. (Call it a hunch!) It isn’t easy to better the society one lives in when you aren’t really wanted in the long-term to being with.
@Brian,
Fair enough. I agree with you. Korean administration, and the laughable curriculum they set forth, does indeed see us interchangeable; the hagwons are actually far worse. But I think it’s important that we the teachers take the high road here. After all, the only real incentive any of us have to do our jobs well here is our own sense of professionalism.
While cm (#15) would have us believe that all teachers here are essentially Bangkok backpackers who ran out of money, I like to think that there are actually quite a few of us who care about delivering a good English lesson, and are capable of doing so. Also, perhaps if professional people like this formed some sort of association, maybe Korea might eventually take notice that certain foreigners seem to be more professional than others. At least we could say we tried.
“I honestly think that bringing in large numbers of lower-wage ESL teachers from India and the Philippines would be of ultimate benefit to South Korea’s ESL industry and greater econonmy.”
…Sure, we haven’t figured out what ‘econonmy’ is just yet…but I’m sure it will be benefited by bringing in lower-paid non-native speakers of English into the Korean ESL industry. LOL
#4)
The union is the enforcer of its own policies, and its ability to enforce them depends on what percent of the job pool joins it. If no more than 500 people join the union and non-union English teachers are readily available for hire, then I guess that despite all the bitching and moaning, its a sign that working conditions aren’t grueling enough to warrant the union in the first place. It is a slight variation of Adam Smiths invisible hand.
#19: “I’m sure it will be benefited by bringing in lower-paid non-native speakers of English into the Korean ESL industry. LOL”
Non-native speakers of English, eh?
Past winners of the prestigious Booker Prize for Fiction born in India: Salman Rushdie, Arundhati Roy, Kiran Desai.
A recent quote from The Guardian (UK): “India continues to produce some of the world’s most talented English-language writers.”
Etc., etc.
There are the trees, sir, and then there is the forest.
Good to see that some things at The Hole never seem to change.
#18 well I’m sure the economy of the Philippines will do slightly better from all the teachers sending money home to their families.
oops, that was directed at #19, not 18… (I know that threaded discussion forums are out of style, but they had their uses)
#21,
You did a nice hack job you did on my words there, buddy. You intentionally left out the part that shows I was having a little bit of fun at the expense of a typographical error.
I strongly doubt Salman Rushdie, Arundhati Roy, Kiran Desai, or Michael Ondaatje would be willing to subject themselves to teaching English in Korea for 1 million won/month…which is what hagwons would probably offer them if they traveled on an Asian passport. Yeah, economic benefits…more like financial benefits for hagwon owners.
PS. My first language isn’t English, so there goes your assumptions.
#22,
And so will the Korean since Filipinos while have less to send home, right?
…still won’t change anything. The problems are far more serious than that.
The whole problem with the union idea starts from the moment a potential teacher starts looking for jobs. This is because the people who bring foreign English teachers to Korea are not interested in making sure the teacher is cared for appropriately - They’re interested in filling the slot and getting the commission check.
The people who need a union the most are the people who just got here, aren’t tied to the community, and can be fooled into thinking “this is the way things are done in Korea” instead of “this particular employer is doing something inappropriate” (e.g. confiscating passports or anything screwy regarding bank accounts).
So the problem is, how would a union, if not compulsory, even get in touch with these people? It would be easy for a hagwon or a recruiter to just “forget” to sign them up or tell them about it, or mention it AFTER a contract has been signed.
I think that would need to be addressed in order to make any other issues relevant.
And cry me a frickin river about native speaking English teachers supposedly becoming more expensive. They’ll just pass the expense on to the parents, first of all, who will pay it because they perceive it to be better.
What do hagwon owners care, since they’d rather have a fresh white western graduate over someone from another country with experience and more qualifications anyway? It’s not about the price, it’s about the appearance. If it was just about pay, they would have brought the Filipinos and Indians in a long time ago.
you mean they are going to outsource jobs to cheaper 3rd world country nationals who work for less money and benefits
threaten to place heavy taxes on the bastards as a campaign pledge!
This idea gets a workout every couple of years. It always fails because the majority are transient and have little to gain career-wise, and the lifers who’d gain the most from it, are both a minority, and their F visas put them above most of the concerns a union would need to look into anyway.
If they wanted to unionize, they’d try to make a teachers union part of a larger union. Like how they unionized that McDonald’s by attaching it to the auto-workers union.
#29,
Yes, but would it be compulsory to join the union? I really doubt most employers would inform their new teachers about the fact that the previous teacher(s) was (were) unionized if it isn’t. Then again, having dealt with many hagwon owners over the years, I’d say many of them would withhold that information from their new employees regardless of penalties for not doing so.
#29,
…and given that some young hagwon teachers are too cheap or foolish are far too willing to accept their bosses promise to cover half of their medical costs in-lieu of proper medical insurance in order to save 30000won per month (without counting those who work without a proper visa), I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them would simply agree to sign away their rights to unionize in order to save a few thousand won a month in union dues.
#24: “You did a nice hack job you did on my words there, buddy. You intentionally left out the part that shows I was having a little bit of fun at the expense of a typographical error.”
Uh, no I didn’t:
#21: “There are the trees, sir, and then there is the forest. Good to see that some things at The Hole never seem to change.”
Here’s another English expression for you that I hope doesn’t go over your head so easily: Casting pearls before swine.
“PS. My first language isn’t English”
Yes, now I see the real problem.
Anyway, you got me. I made a typo. You’re the Man! Pat yourself on the back! Give yourself a cookie! One shot!
At least I’m not a racist, ignorant twat.
“Yes, now I see the real problem.”
“At least I’m not a racist, ignorant twat.”
#32,
Casting pearls before swine? LOL. Here’s another English expression for you: the pot calling the kettle black.
Look at the first thread about the government wanting to allow South East Asians to teach English in Korea. I was one of the very few who argued that it would be a good thing (as long as it’s about getting better teachers, not cheaper ones). Heck, any true ESL professional will tell you that N. S. Prahbu, an Indian, is an authority (if not ‘the’ authority) on second language pedagogy. Why in hell would I argue that South East Asians can’t teach English?
“Yes, now I see the real problem.”
“At least I’m not a racist, ignorant twat.”
One thing I’ll give you is that the vastness of your hypocrisy is quite impressive.
#33: “I was one of the very few who argued that it would be a good thing”
And I argued that it was never gonna happen here and you have failed to persuade me otherwise, your clever bons mots notwithstanding. Do a Google search and you will find a recent interview by the head of the foreign ESL teachers’ union in Japan, and all he does is talk about the unending problems he faced with the union. “Herding cats” sums up the problem in a nutshell.
At the uni I worked at last year, there were 70 or so foreign ESL teachers there and despite a number of egregious examples of mistreatment by the management, there was too much self-interested and petty backbiting amongst the teachers to even consider trying to organize them in some way. There were hardly any “transients” among them, either.
And that’s just one school, let alone an entire city or nation.
#34: I rarely call people racist unless I mean it. I, on the other hand, grew up in multiculti Berkeley, CA and am hardly ever called racist, so I’d like you to substantiate your claim or just stifle.
I didn’t grow up in Berkeley, but not very many people call me a racist either. Amazing.
I’m thinking of changing my handle to King CMM, and if anyone disagrees (or is perceived to disagree) with anything I have to say or think, I’m going to pompously go off on them to the point that I come across as a total twat.
#37: “I’m going to pompously go off on them to the point that I come across as a total twat.”
Hey, I only play by house rules, and I see you do, too.
I don’t mind if people disagree with me, but the typo Nazis could use their time more productively, IMHO.
Touche.
and yes, when people try to dress down others’ posts because of grammar, spelling, English errors…I think think they should be banned from the thread and given a yellow card.
“And I argued that it was never gonna happen here and you have failed to persuade me otherwise, your clever bons mots notwithstanding.”
Hmm, actually, I was arguing that a union might not happen, not that Indians will be teaching in Korea.
“I rarely call people racist unless I mean it. I, on the other hand, grew up in multiculti Berkeley, CA”
Dude, I’m multi-ethnic.
“and am hardly ever called racist,…”
Well, maybe not in your face.
“…and am hardly ever called racist, so I’d like you to substantiate your claim or just stifle.”
What claim, that Prabhu is a damned fine linguist or that you’re an hypocrite?
Here’s for the former…
http://www.oup.com/elt/catalog.....uage?cc=gb
Here’s for the latter…
“Yes, now I see the real problem.”
“At least I’m not a racist, ignorant twat.”
#40. Dude, you win. Good luck with whatever it is that you do.
Again folks, I think you are all off to far on the idea of a teachers union as opposed to a teachers association. The roles are quite different for their members. Again exactly what will become of it, and how it will function will unravel over time. The initiative is to discuss the issue, fish for ideas and support ( or lack there of) and do what you can with the members and minds at your disposal.
If there were difficulties with a union in Japan, it doesn’t follow ATEK would have the same problems, by virtue of dealing with a different group of teachers, a different culture and a different mandate.
Become members or visit the site, join the discussion share your ideas and see what happens.
#42: Hitest, I don’t teach anymore so I’m out of the game, but I wish them good luck and feel that anything that increases the community mindedness of the expat and/or ESL community here is a good thing.
Union? They’re thinking too small! They need an English Teacher’s Guild. Or, perhaps, The Honorable Order of English Teachers. Make it a requirement that someone join the guild as a Supplicant before being able to apply for a job here. Maybe also throw in a grown beard requirement.
How about a union of international white-collar employees, regardless of industry?
#44, feeling smug and so-very-clever in your Chicago School bubble? How about this: for every example you can find where non-union workers in ANY industry in ANY country earn as much as their organized counterparts, I buy you a session with the masseur/masseuse of your choice.
I’m guessing both my money and your bubble are safe.
So whatever happened to KOTESOL? Is this new teachers’ association planning to fill the same niche as them? If not, how are they supposed to be different?
47, maybe they’ve never heard of KOTESOL. That would be rich.
But KOTESOL has never had unionization as a goal, right? That’s the nub of the question… and why I never joined KOTESL. The sound of the word “union” at least brings up concrete images.
…though I can’t imagine a whitey-dominated picket-line outside the Pagoda Building in Gangnam demanding dental insurance and rights to compensation when we get injured on the job…
#49 - Well no, but if the “update” above is any indication, the new organization doesn’t have unionization as a goal, either. Which sort of leads to the niche question…
Zonath brings up a great point. But I think the difference would be in the function of the organizations. KOTESOL is a professional organization whose function is largely academic. The presentations and conferences I’ve attended under their banner are largely about education and SLA theory. Also, they are open to anyone teaching English in Korea, and many of their attendees (and presenters) are Korean.
This new ATEK thingie seems more aimed at providing support for expatriates teaching English in Korea, and they seem to be leaning a lot towards the employment/living aspects rather than teaching methodology. I’m not sure. I’m a KOTESOL member, but I can’t really speak for ATEK.
I work for a small hagwon in Nowon-gu, that’s been having a run of personnel issues . . .
If it’s the same guy, its the company’s mismanagement that is driving it out of business, rather than any unionization efforts.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....21685.html
please visit above response in korean times to get more scoop on ATEK
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