Amazingly, this managed to fly under the radar here, but last month, a Korean-American artist was gunned down by police in Orange County, California. From the LA Times:
On New Year’s Eve, La Habra police shot and killed Michael Cho in a strip mall parking lot when he allegedly threatened officers with a tire iron.
The killing of the UCLA graduate and artist has set off criticism of police not heard in Southern California’s Korean American community since the 1992 Los Angeles riots, when shop owners complained that officers never showed up to stop looters, and they picked up guns to defend their stores.
This time, community leaders say La Habra police were too quick on the trigger when responding to a vandalism call.
“We haven’t seen this expression of shock, disbelief and sadness in the community before,” said Richard Choi Bertsch, of the Orange County Korean American Coalition. “All of the first-generation parents are saying, ‘This could’ve been my kid.’ ” Charles Kim, a La Habra resident and past national president of the Korean American Coalition, said that “the community’s mind is pretty much set that the police overreacted.”
New American Media has a pretty good piece on the incident, as well as (admittedly insufficient) video footage from the scene. Like I said, the video is insufficient — Cho was shot off camera — but man, even if the guy came at them with a crowbar, you had two cops going up against a guy with a bum leg. I can’t imagine anything Cho might have done would have justified pumping him full of lead.
(HT to commenters)
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103 Comments
Holding a lead pipe and not listening to cops is provocative and stupid. A lead pipe is also considered a deadly weapon since a blow in the head can kill someone. However, I just don’t understand why the cops had to pump 10 bullets into the guy…
I also don’t understand why the cops were not armed with tasers that could of created a conclusion that would of been a lot less controversial.
Observe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
How is it that the cops here use more discretion with a dog in this case?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
If a cop has a drawn his weapon he is telling you that that is the mode which he has decided to persuade you to listen to his directions and follow them implicitly. If you don’t do what he says what do you think he will do next? Really! The gun is drawn and it is not a show. They use them in the States. They are very serious. NO donuts, no persuasive words. They are not discussing it.
I, personally, do what they say.
A couple of days ago I got some hits from people looking for “Koreatown shooting” or something like that. I don’t know if it was in relation to this shooting or what. But I googled around to see if it was something recent and worth blogging on when I came across the “Los Angeles Times: Homicide Blog” from the LA Times. Seriously fucked up shit, I can’t believe a city that rotten is still allowed on the face of the earth. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/homicidereport/
The police have no clue when called out to a situation like this as to whether the person is using drugs (PCP users are a very big worry for law enforcement officers) or that they may have any disabilities. They only see someone not acting normally and refusing to adhere to there commands while holding a deadly weapon in their hands.
In recent years, there has been a surge in the truly unstable wanting to be killed by the police. Less lethal force probably should have been used, but we may have instead read of officers killed in the line of duty.
How anyone can say they know what another was thinking at anytime is beyond me. I’ve heard the phrase, “they just snapped,” too many times to count, only to have families counter that they were misunderstood, or could never have been at fault.
This one blows me away. $105 million for the sister of a dead child predator. Evil doesn’t only reside in L.A. It’s a world-wide epidemic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....88606.html
Tragic.
Why didn’t they shoot him in the leg or taser him? Did they think he was pulling a gun?
“The police have no clue when called out to a situation like this as to whether the person is using drugs (PCP users are a very big worry for law enforcement officers) or that they may have any disabilities. They only see someone not acting normally and refusing to adhere to there commands while holding a deadly weapon in their hands.”
I don’t think there’s enough PCP in the United States to go around to each person who has been killed by cops who said they thought he was on PCP.
This is a case of suburban cops who see little action not knowing how to handle a situation without using force. If they really thought he was “agitated” and a threat they should have tasered him, like when he was calmly walking away from them.
one thing we must understand is the concept of fire discipline is incredibly difficult to master, which may be an argument that cops are poorly trained. In the heat of the moment, its not natural to only shoot one bullet. Unscientifically, just look at the Vietnam War(like 3000 bullets shot per kill, although partially due to the fact that they thought using fully automatic was better than semi-automatic). The Navy Seals pride themselves on being able to shoot a minimum number of bullets because they’ve been trained heavily to have really good fire discipline. You’d be surprised how fast you can empty a clip without even thinking. This isn’t excusing the cops, I’m just saying this because people always wonder why cops empty clips into people.
if the boy had blond hair and blue eyes, this wouldn’t have happened. indeed, cops rarely shoot and kill such types in similar istuations.
the cops probably don’t even shoot that well.
aim for a leg? Please.
they don’t have the ability.
they just shot enough to stop him, and behold, he was dead.
the suspect was wearing a big white t shirt.
not big enough of a target for them.
most cops I know graduated from college, but pretty much did a bad job in college.
“I just don’t understand why the cops had to pump 10 bullets into the guy…”
Certainly seems excessive. I don’t know about now, but cops used to be trained to shoot at the hipbone–break the hipbone and the guy goes down and stays down (only one bullet needed).
“if the boy had blond hair and blue eyes, this wouldn’t have happened. indeed, cops rarely shoot and kill such types in similar istuations.”
Whatever.
“In the heat of the moment, its not natural to only shoot one bullet. Unscientifically, just look at the Vietnam War(like 3000 bullets shot per kill, although partially due to the fact that they thought using fully automatic was better than semi-automatic). The Navy Seals pride themselves on being able to shoot a minimum number of bullets because they’ve been trained heavily to have really good fire discipline. You’d be surprised how fast you can empty a clip without even thinking.”
The Vietnam War, or any war, is a bad example. You’re comparing shooting at someone standing just a few meters away in a parking lot to firefights in the brush.
Navy Seals? They use suppressive fire too, you know.
The perp behaved exactly the same way almost all Koreans do when confronted by police here in Korea. Only problem was, he wasn’t in Korea.
If the perp had killed one of the cops, he would’ve been an “American”, and we would never have heard of this story.
All things considered, from my point of view………they just should’ve TASERED his silly ass.
Well, we weren’t there and the footage is incomplete, the guy probably deserved it.
#16,
“The perp behaved exactly the same way almost all Koreans do when confronted by police here in Korea. Only problem was, he wasn’t in Korea.”
No, he didn’t, and even if he did that wouldn’t have been an acceptable excuse. He has lived in the US for years, and everybody knows US cops are a bit paranoid.
But, you do have a point. Did they have tazzers or pepper spray? If so, then why didn’t they use it? They couldn’t have stopped the guy with a tazer…and a boot to the chest if he didn’t drop? Pathetic.
or rather, some US cops can be a bit paranoid.
It doesn’t matter if you’re white or not, if you’re weilding a tire iron and they say drop it and you don’t, don’t expect a happy outcome. I promise that no matter what your race your proceeding time will be spent with sirens, ambulances, paramedics, doctors and probably morticians.
Cops are a-holes, particularly in LA and OC. Who would be a cop? Everywhere they go they bring bad news. Do you think they’re coming to your door with a commendation? Who would voluntarily be the bearer of bad news all the time?
The mother and another poster pointed out that he was soo calm, he wasn’t a threat. When you have guns pointed at you and you are calm, you’re either whacked out of your mind on drugs, a gangbanger who does this so often it’s old hat, or flat out crazy. It’s irrational and not the response they are looking for. You should be scared because that means you’re aware of the situation and you’re listening.
Of course after they cuff you they are such a-holes that they’ll ask you why you’re so scared.
Anytime an unarmed person is shot dead, there should be questions asked because this demonstrates a lack of professionalism and good judgment on the part of whichever police or security are involved.
I can only think of the British police who put seven rounds into the head of an innocent Brazilian electrician, in the tube, and how the authorities exonerated themselves, paying only a fine. Such was neither professional or ethical.
I’m sorry but his unbelievably indifferent attitude to cops brandishing their firearms while in a somewhat aggressive stance is quite baffling. On the video where the gunshot victim stepped towards the officer (very nonchalantly) the cop backed up keeping the distance (rather than firing). As his mother said, he was not aggressive, but he certainly was not compliant. Then…who knows what happened as it is off camera.
Personally, I am quite sure that I would be on the ground in an instant.
#21,
Sure, but they should have tazed or pepper sprayed him. One of the cops should have had the tazer out the moment they had his attention. There’s no need to have two guns aimed at a person with a tire iron.
The flip side to that is if the boy had had blond hair and blue eyes, kyopos wouldn’t be protesting.
Drugs.
Cops have to kill druggies because you do not know what they are going to do next.
The policemen are people too. They do not kill unnecessarily or for fun.
They do their job. Druggies have to be killed.
Cho is not a typical Korean. He went to the dark side when he start abusing drugs.
Too bad. But, cops did the right thing in shooting the fried brain out of misery.
If you use drug, this is what happens. Come to Jesus before too late.
Am I too harsh?
No.
Druggies soon sell their evil to friends, neighbors and kids.
Kill druggies. I don’t care if he is a Korean, Caucasian or a black. Kill these evil bastards before they corrupt your kids.
These cops did a favor to Korean community by eliminating a potential corruptor.
KAs are hard-working, progressive and positive people. Drugs have no place in KA community. And, like me, many KAs will love policemen who rid these vermins from KA community.
Love the police doing their job.
The Korean boy wasn’t carrying a gun, the police were… They had power over him and were safely tucked behind their guns. I should think that if they had to shoot this poor kid, one shot would have been enough to stop him? I would never even talk back to a policeman. You’re crazy to. And #25, you are being too harsh. I know how you feel about drugs, but you didn’t know this person and now he is gone, probably for not the right reasons.
# 26,
True, a bunch of Korean Americans wouldn’t be protesting, but others would be. If it was white with blond hair and blue eyes, and he was a college educated member of a quiet suburban community (as La Habra is) then it would probably be a bunch of upset suburban white people out there.
vicki,
I don’t have know him. WTF is he doing around liquor store at 1pm? Doesn’t he have a job?
He may be drawing grafittis in the neighborhood. So, he graduated from UCLA. So, what?
Many kids cannot get a plush job when they graduate. Especially, if they use drug.
I attend a Korean church in LA. My pastor said nothing about this sorry incident. Nobody from the congregation did either.
This sorry druggie story was no KA community issue. Only to those Al Sharpton types who want to milk this story for their political aim.
99% of KAs love the police doing their job and shooting this drug-infested kid down.
99%!
This kid stopped being a Korean when he start using drug.
I can call him a white trash or a trail park bunny. Whatever he became, he was no longer a KA.
KAs work hard and contribute to the US society. Work hard and study hard.
This loser was not a KA.
So how exactly do we know this guy was on drugs, a ‘druggie’ or involved with drugs in any way?
WangKong, I know you live around there and all, but La Habra is not that quiet and insulated. It’s got its fair share of problems.
Many KAs will not only blame this kid but also his parents.
They seem to be respectable people in the picture. But, most KAs know for their kid to be a druggie, they had to have some serious issues.
Definitely not church-going people. Most young KA members in KA churches are busy planning for next mission trip.
KAs have already “disown” these losers. The druggie and his sorry parents.
They are bad people. Rotten apples.
KAs cannot afford to have these losers in their midst. Nor, they like them to be.
Drugs have no place in KA society. No place at all.
“Baduk”, there is no indication that drugs were involved — according to the article. I further note that:
Perhaps you are more than overzealous in your comments (?).
Here is an additional article on this incident as well, with pictures.
I really think “Baduk” has really overstepped the boundaries of decency here with his rabid, un-informed comments. I would seriously consider deleting such tasteless trolling as they are offensive.
I believe in free speech. These comments are not to be deleted.
Baduk-nim,
I am disappointed in you.
Delete the sage offerings of the prophet Baduk, that is blasphemy. Besides, it would exclude a certain fascist flavor to this thread.
It’s easy to paint personal problems with that wide swath of “drug addict”. It certainly doesn’t get at the root of this particular man’s troubles. I really do believe he was under duress.
Like I said before, the first I saw of this incident was in Korean and had little knowlege of its content. But when I saw that those police had their guns drawn and watched Mr. Cho’s behavior I was fairly certain he was deceased. Someone mentioned that this looked somewhat like a case of suicide by police and I believe this is to an extent true, although I don’t think anyone will know the truth, ever.
Alot of people say they should have used tasers and I whole-heartedly agree. But the fact remains that they had their guns drawn and a rational human would probably have known the difference and not wanted to get tased either.
“The Korean boy wasn’t carrying a gun, the police were…”
Moot point, though. I know a doctor who treated a patient once, thought the guy had been hit by a car. All his teeth had been knocked out; skull, jaw, and cheekbones were fractured; all the fat cells and muscles in his cheeks were shredded…Thing is, it wasn’t a car that hit him but a guy’s fist…One punch. Yes, one punch, that’s it.
But, yeah, they should have pepper sprayed or tazzed him.
…oh, and yeah, I forgot, the guy’s nose was putty. My friend, the doctor’s son, asked the guy who threw the punch what had happened and he answered having been surprised that he’d cause so much damage with just one punch (he was a big dumb guy who didn’t know his own strength).
…point I was making: weapon or not, if he attacked the cops and they didn’t react quickly, he could have killed one of them. Still don’t think they should have used deadly force on him.
study traditional art = bash other peoples property with a tire iron?
nice
Anytime an unarmed person is shot dead, there should be questions asked because this demonstrates a lack of professionalism and good judgment on the part of whichever police or security are involved.
elgin how can you say everytime a cop uses force it would be for lack of professionalism or bad judgement
there should be questions asked you are right however the latter part of that is completely ridiculous in my opinion
#39,
Maybe, but we wouldn’t have been having this discussion if they had tazzed him the moment he stepped forward, turned around, and started walking away.
Correction… we wouldn’t be having this discussion…
# 30,
Actually, La Habra is pretty safe…
http://lahabra.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
btw, when the police kill in this country, the investigators are not allowed to interview the officers for a set number of days. this gives the cops time to get their stories to match one anothers. we’ll only see justice for the cops. cho won’t be getting any of that.
and to the poster who says i’m racist for suggesting the police killed him because he was korean, you need to read what i wrote again. the police decided to kill him because he wasn’t white not because he was korean. the vast majority of innocent people gunned down by cops in this country are people of color. it ain’t racist to talk about that. do you live in the states?
yeah, dogbert, are you saying white people are protesting along with the koreans?
Why yes, I am.
It’s a well-known fact that whenever a “person of color” has a run-in with the cops, white folk will gather to shout, “No justice, no peace!” Viz. Rodney King, Amador Diallou, “Mumia”, et al.
I may just submit this to “What White People Like”.
There’s a picture in the New America Media link that will show how many white people have shown up to the candlelight vigil.
we’re a great nation, aren’t we, dog?
if it makes you feel better, i’ll protest the police whenever some poor white dude gets blown away like so many of us colored people.
巌可汗
i almost forgot to ask, did you the photos of the vigils? looks all korean to me. will you be joining them?
巴衣今
The more I read about Cho and what happened, the more this stinks. Anytime the police resort to deadly force, there must be questions because citizens pay for policemen to keep the peace and uphold the law, not to kill because they panic or feel the urge to do so.
It is disgusting that there are too many trolls herein that are quick to talk about Cho bashing windows with a tire iron or taking drugs or attacking the police or somehow deserved it — when there is no evidence of such, so far, as far as I can tell by searching news reports.
I, for one, would like some accountability and answers because I would not want to have my brother shot dead, only to have people make snide comments as to how he somehow deserved it.
Yes, I’m sure a photo of a close up of a few Korean faces proves everything. My argument stands.
#49, “there is no evidence of such, so far, as far as I can tell by searching news reports.”
You are so right. There is no evidence other than he was carrying a deadly weapon and refused to respond to the police. This is “not” the normal behavior of a sane university graduate.
There are definitely questions that need to be answered, but to put all the blame on the police without all the facts just because of the uniform is also disgusting.
The “uniform” has nothing to do with blame “John”, that is your perception at work. The issue is accountability for one’s actions. There is nothing “disgusting” about accountability because a person has died and the society should ask “why?”.
Further, if I may quote our esteemed blog progenitor
I would have to generally agree with this idea. These policemen are supposed to be professionals, with training — not gunslingers — and they have nightsticks and know how to use them.
Mr. Elgin, you think something stinks and you’re right. But if you are from the States which it sounds like you’re not, then this should not be that shocking. You think this is isolated? Police, and I’m being extremely general here, carry alot of baggage and they are heavily armed. People who weren’t sporting tire irons have been gunned down with alot less provocation. If you’re angry now, well, that anger should of had its genesis a decade or more back.
I’m angry and I’ve been the focus of some police ill treatment. All I can say is, who else is gonna volunteer to do that job but a group of sado-masochistic freak-jobs. Look at the stats. Divorce, suicide, alcohol abuse and even drug abuse. Manic depressives and spouse beaters, we’ve even got some ex-cop murderers in the news lately. You’re surprised, well I’m not.
WangKon, that’s a pretty nifty little crime calculator. I did a search on Fullerton, Brea, Yorba Linda, Whittier and La Mirada. Seems like crime is down all around that area since I was living off Birch St. in Brea in 2002. Things were pretty seedy or seemingly so waaaayyy back then. My friend lived in La Habra North of Imperial and West of Harbor Dr., and there were alot of druggies and gangbangers in his neighborhood. I was shocked that there were no murders in Brea in 2006. Hell, La Mirada has always been swarming with meth and coke dealers. Maybe the police are just tired, or maybe they’ve rounded them all up since I’ve been gone.
I was in law enforcement for several years before the domestic dispute scene took its toll on me. I have seen what the truly deranged and drugged out can do to their own children and vice versa. No horror movie can come close to some of what I’ve come across. I’ve even seen it up close and personal at my hagwon here in South Korea, and it took a massive amount of self-control to not get involved while my students and fellow teachers were scared out of their minds and the local police did nothing because of the delicate nature of the situation.
Even with the baton, pepper spray, and hand-to-hand training I have had, if someone were to ever go for my gun, I was trained to fire every round from my weapon into this person until I was absolutely positive that they were no longer a threat to my, or anyone else’s, life. I was truly blessed to have never been first on scene when guns were drawn and fired.
Also, not all officers are equipped with pepper spray, tasers, or high powered assault rifles (remember the North Hollywood bank robbery where the police were out-gunned by two heavily armed and armored) due to budget constraints which affects the safety of everyone. I even had to purchase my own baton at one point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.....d_shootout
The problem is that we don’t know what happened other than they were called out to investigate a report of vandalism and things took a turn for the worse when he refused to do as asked and drop the weapon, but this happens more often than you would think. Sadly, it’s just the nature of his nationality that’s fueling the fire right now. Would we even be discussing this right now if he was of hispanic origin like myself? No mas, por favor.
R. Elgin,
None of KAs I know walks around the liquor store at 1PM.
I do not know what kind of church he went (definitely not a church where Jesus is taught) but when a police tells you to stop you stop and say “Yes, sir”.
I respect police. There are doing a tough job already in LA with druggies, the homeless and the insane.
This kid should stopped and asked the police, “What can I do for you, officers?”. This is how KAs are brought up and this is how 99% of them will react.
This joker had something in his system to ignore the cops, especially when guns are drawn. He deserves to be put down.
As I said, he was no longer a Korean when he started abusing drugs.
You do not have to see the evidence. This kid is behaving erratically. Unless he had history of mental disease, he is just stupid to walk away from the police when they had guns drawn.
Only answer. Drugs.
I lived in Yorba Linda in the 1970s. It was a great area, good for families. Mass immigration and overpopulation have ruined Orange County, obviously.
And baduk, hate to burst your bubble, but Koreans are capable of bad things too. Your holier than thou attitude regarding your race (shared by many kyopos), is a prime reason you are roundly disliked.
Some KAs brought up in America think doing drugs is a part of becoming an American.
This joker I am sure did.
He used drugs with his “American” friends to show that he is an American too.
I bet his parents knew about this and told him again and again not to use drugs. They tried, I am sure, to instill Korean values to him; hardwork, honesty, perseverance, clean living.
Definitely no drugs.
This wayward son ignored his parents’ wisdom and ended his life prematurely.
It is nobody’s fault but his own.
He is not a KA.
dogbert,
Next time you go to anywhere near KA community in America and ask about this case and the drugs.
99% will say exactly what I am saying. They will show absolutely no mercy about druggies.
No mercy.
I am not the only one who has holier-than-thou attitude. Confusian teaching has formed a very moral society in Korea, in terms of family values. KAs work hard. Some work 24hrs for 365 days in a year. No holidays. Work, work and work. And, enjoy it too.
KAs are like a super-race(yes, like Germans) who came to the US to influence the country in positive way.
Very positive way. Economically, socially, academically and spiritually.
You just wait and see. KAs are new Jews. We are that good.
Baduk, by your logic, you are not a KA either, because you were obviously using drugs when your were posting here today.
And people wonder why I dislike kyopos.
Newsflash: WE DON’T NEED YOU
Go to Haiti, or North Korea, or just stay in South Korea and improve things there. The U.S. was already a great country when your grandfather was squatting in some rice paddy fertilizing it the old-fashioned way. You arrogant son of a bitch.
Koreans are the world’s biggest race of hypocrites.
You guys are all a-holes if you think that it was actually the victim’s fault.
Wow… looks like Baduk is writing his own private version of Mein Kampf. Next thing we know, he’ll be railing against the Wall of Jews.
What’s this guy doing around a liquor store at 1pm? Well gee, I don’t know. But last I checked, picking up a bottle or two (or even just walking past a liquor store) wasn’t illegal or evidence of any kind of other poor behavior. Hell, maybe he was getting something for a party later… maybe he was getting change. ‘Course, even if this guy was high off 12 different drugs, he certainly didn’t deserve to die for it. Ever hear of rehab?
“Yes, I’m sure a photo of a close up of a few Korean faces proves everything. My argument stands.”
Touchy much? There are about seventeen individual faces (more than “a few”) and among them it appears there might be at least two or three white people (it’s hard to tell with the people in the back).
Local news links might help supply real information (especially to counter baduk’s). The first is better than the second:
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo.....4237.story
http://www.ocregister.com/news.....t-officers
#53: “All I can say is, who else is gonna volunteer to do that job but a group of sado-masochistic freak-jobs. Look at the stats. Divorce, suicide, alcohol abuse and even drug abuse. Manic depressives and spouse beaters, we’ve even got some ex-cop murderers in the news lately. You’re surprised, well I’m not.”
Correlation does not prove causation. I imagine many decent cops end up with emotional or psychological issues because of their work, but the work may also attract “sado-masochistic freak-jobs” who were predisposed to violence and abuse before being on the job.
“My friend lived in La Habra North of Imperial and West of Harbor Dr., and there were alot of druggies and gangbangers in his neighborhood. I was shocked that there were no murders in Brea in 2006. Hell, La Mirada has always been swarming with meth and coke dealers. Maybe the police are just tired, or maybe they’ve rounded them all up since I’ve been gone.”
Meth use is a serious problem in California and across the US.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/pdf/in.....mine05.pdf
baduk, honest to God, how many people have you converted with your mindset?
If it’s none, please pack it up.
I’m certainly sure I’m younger than you. High school kids during my era, virtually all did marijuana and/or alcohol.
I did alcohol. My best buddies, Korean Americans, did marijuana.
Not just marijuana. They did amphetamines, too.
Couple years later, doing ecstasy and going to rave parties was the new trend. I didn’t do that, either. But, rest assured, tons of Koreans in the land of Los Angeles and Orange County were in on it, weekly, I might add.
be honest to yourself, dude. Korean American attendance at any church is pretty weak, once they get into college. They go on drinking binges, do all sorts of drugs, and participate in risky sexual activities. Then, they come back to church when they had all their fun, get married, and have kids of their own.
the only difference I can think of is, these kids are more like affluent white kids in suburbs rather than low income Latinos and blacks in their choices of activities and drugs.
go ahead. Write off a ton of people who you thought were legit Korean Americans.
buy your children a chastity belt, and inquire about a tracking device on their ankles. Do the best you can, so they don’t end up like the LA Koreans that people back in Seoul look down upon.
One of my “Korean” friends once showed me what he hid in his closet. It was a 9mm handgun. He made sure he never touched it, and kept it wrapped up. When I picked at his brain, he said, it was used by someone who is in jail now.
I was friends with him then, and too young to do the right thing, but now I’m not friends with him, and I think I should turn his ass over to the police.
When I was in highschool, 2 separate Korean kids got shot in the face. By other Koreans.
You’re living in a fantasy world.
LA Koreans have a reputation for being dirty and low class. If you missed that, I’m sorry you did.
dogbertt, If you valued your white community that much, you should have lived in the mid west. You racist.
so I suppose neither Cho Seung Hui nor this Mr. Cho are Koreans?
LOL.
Stupid and sad really.
@67 nice post, really.
wjk,
Nice anecdotal accounts. Yet, very personal and myopic.
I have met and have known 100 times more KAs (and their kids) than you will ever meet in your lifetime.
the simple fact is listen to the police
and second quit blaming the cops who have yet to be proven to have done anything wrong
if they did then punishment is warranted
but once again dont jump the gun
no pun intended
baduk, you are so off base with everything you said about Michael Cho that you have even less credibility than before, if such a thing were possible. Quit while you’re behind.
User-81,
You lived in Korea too long (or, is this international?).
Your argument seriously lacks details. What is so off-base? Where did I lose credibility?
This is exactly how Koreans talk. If I ask them the same questions, then they say “You should know”.
It derives me crazy. Like a woman who says “if you ask me when you hurt my feelings, then you are hurting me again by asking that question”.
Catch 22.
Dogbert,
Arrogant? From when did working hard and earning money and sending their kids to the best colleges in the country so that they can contribute to American society is arrogant?
KAs are doing it all. While your kinds are frying their brains with drugs, Korean kids are getting A+ in the classroom.
I value the white community as much as you value the Korean community. That makes you a racist.
And baduk, funny again that I got A-plusses, as did a lot of white kids. On the other hand, there were some Korean kids who could not cut it. I think you know some examples. Again, my point stands — for my kind frying their brains on drugs, funny how my kind came up with antibiotics, heavier-than-air flight, nuclear energy, etc., while your kind couldn’t come up with indoor plumbing in 5,000 years — we don’t need your “contribution”. That makes you not only arrogant, but deluded.
Dogbertt,
Who are your people?
I am only saying what Italians, the Polish, Blacks, the Irish,the Native Americans and countless other people who immigrated or migrated(in case of the Native Americans) had done to make America great will be done by KAs.
Maybe you do not know American history very well. Am I wasting my time by speaking to a simpleton here?
74: “Your argument seriously lacks details. What is so off-base? Where did I lose credibility?”
Your assumptions about the details of Michael Cho’s life way off. You know it, but you won’t admit it. Maybe Michael Cho’s family will see what you wrote and sue you for defamation.
Nuclear bomb and nuclear energy is mostly through Einstein. Are you a Jew?
Antibiotics. Pasteur did much original work here. Are you a French descent?
Heavier than air flight. Wright brothers. But, I hear some work is done independently by the French as well. Wright brothers got there a little earlier.
Please steal credits that belong to other peoples.
And, these Europeans will say your great-great grandfather was a piece of shit and that is why he couldn’t cut it in his native country and moved to America to avoid starvation.
user-81,
His parents should share the blame for Cho behaving that way in front of the police.
As we Koreans would say, “자식새끼를 어떻게 교육시켜서 그딴짓을 하게 놔두나?”(How did they raise their son so irresponsibly that he acts such a way?)
Dogbertt,
Sorry.
The proper expression should have been, “towed his sorry uneducated ass to God-forsaken Land”, instead of “moved to America”.
Baduk’s insane ramblings about how a Korean who does drugs is not Korean anymore is basically a textbook example of the No True Scotsman defense.
Sorry dude, since you have defined your social group by blood, you can’t disown people when they don’t match up to your ideals. You can only do that when you define your social groups by ideals in the first place, like we do in America. You’re stuck having this guy being forever a part of the jung, or min-jok, or han, or whatever the hell you are calling your racial group this week.
The good news is that your theory that he was on drugs is ALL IN YOUR HEAD, with no supporting evidence in the outside world. Breathe a sigh of relief that as soon as you stop accusing this guy of being doped up on drugs you can also stop drying to disown him.
And then you can stop chasing your own tail around the kitchen floor and making yourself dizzy.
Baduk will be happy to hear that at the last Secret Jew World Bankers Meeting there was a lot of talk about the Koreans. In fact, it was decided that Koreans outpaced the Jews a long time ago when it comes to getting things for the home country.
The following points were read into the minutes:
Lots of American soldiers have died defending South Korea. How many American soldiers have died for Israel? America came to the rescue in Korea in 1950. Did America show up in Israel in ‘48, or ‘67, or ‘73, or ‘82?
Americans brought a nuclear bomb to South Korea. Israel had to pay for and build its own bomb.
America spends all kinds of money keeping bases in South Korea, which means South Korea spends little for its own defense. Israel has to buy all the American weapons that it uses to protect the country/attack other countries. (And even once they’ve bought them they’ve got to tinker until they can get it to just the way they like it. And to tinker is cheap?)
The Jews in America have had to set up a very large lobby to get things done in Washington. It costs a lot of money to keep a machine like that running. What about the Koreans? Either they get all the help from America without have to invest in a lobby or they’ve got a lobby that somehow is super effective yet totally under the radar. That beats the Jews coming and going.
Both South Korea and Israel have been caught spying on America, so that makes them even for something.
mateomiguel,
I don’t think so. Blood is not everything. Common value is what defines a people.
When Korean Americans hear that one KA is shot by police, their initial reaction would be that of anger and hatred toward police.
However, as soon as they hear and see the tape, their immediately disown this druggie. KAs hate drugs and druggies. They worry about their children living in America picking up bad values from the Native.
KAs will dump this clown in a New York minute.
KAs come to America to work hard and to raise their children in world-class environment. They want financial security and great home life.
However, they still have to live initially in poor neighborhood and they worry. Worry about their children using drugs or joining gangs.
Many attends a church regularly and makes sure that their children do too.
Drug is the number one problem in America. Gang problem is the second.
KAs, through their close family unit and Korean values, have pulled through.
This kid, however, didn’t.
baduk, what you think doesn’t matter, because according to the Korean government, blood IS the end all and be all of what it means to be Korean. There is no test you can take to become Korean, which would be the case if it was a country based on ideals. Its just a simple question of who your parents were.
And i’m pretty sure when you say “they” and “KAs” and whatever, you just mean “I” and “me”.
Hehe… remember a few weeks ago when nobody had heard a word from Baduk for a couple of months, and people were waxing nostalgic over his unique brand of craziness? Yeah… I miss those days.
Okay Badman, I’ll bite… how do you know this kid was on drugs? Did you sell them to him?
baduk, besides your brash speculation, where did you read he was a druggie? Read the linked article. The liquor store was one where he often bought cigarettes, in the same shopping center as a restaurant he frequented.
hey pawi, what do you think of baduk’s spewings here?
#29…. Thankyou for reply. I can see that you feel strongly about drugs…I understand this. People “using” can get ugly… Do a lot of damage to society, and themselves. I just don’t know what happened? To be shot when all he had in his hand was a tire iron? How bad of a person was he? We don’t know… The police have the upperhand. They have the power to kill. I’m not one to lip off to the police, or give them a hard time because I know what will happen if I do. But people are stupid sometimes and do dumb things. I’m not a softy when it comes to crime. I have zero tolerance for idiots who hurt others… They can drop off the face of the earth for all I care. It’s just that this was a person with a tire iron. He was killed and I don’t think it was right. Do all humans using drugs deserved to be shot by the police? Are all people that use drugs that worthless to you? Everybodies got their story. What was his? And I’m sorry to tell you, drugs or not he still was Korean. But more importantly a human first… And then again some people deserve to die, but was this Korean boy one of them?
Dudes, see the video.
What kind of jerk-off walks away when policemen pulls out a gun and talks to you?
And, why do you think policemen pulled out a gun? The jerk-off had something on the left hand.
Tire-iron is what the police says then I believe policemen. After all, they are people too. Not monsters. I have more faith in America and the system than most of you.
mateomiguel, you are confusing Koreans and KAs. KAs are Americans. We have separate identity from Koreans. Like Dogbertt is not a Britt.
Actually, a proper Britt will be very offended if a Mongrel like Dogbertt tries to say he is one of them.
Britts take their blood line very seriously.
More seriously than Dogbertt for sure.
I think, when a MexicanAmerican, a CubanAmerican, a VietnameseAmerican, a RussianAmerican or any other recent immigrant groups start seeing themselves as Americans, America will be a better country.
These people will take ownership of America and start taking responsibilities, rather than see themselves as victims of White America and become anti-social and anti-system.
Demographics of the US is changing rapidly toward non-White America.
It is about time for these groups to become stake-holders.
KAs are a way ahead.
As I said, most KAs will applaud the police action and suppor them one hundred percent.
Druggies got to go.
vicki,
Take off your nun’s uniform and see the situation.
I was never a policeman but I know some fine KoreanAmerican policemen. They are in danger almost everyday.
It is either kill or be killed.
You want for the police to be beaten by a tire-iron and then shoot. By then, he would be too unconscious to shoot.
The police did the right thing.
And, yes. Druggies have to be killed, so as to stop them from recruiting young people.
Draculas have to be killed. Before they bite another human being and make them to be like them.
Eventually, they die. Why let them burden the society?
White Americans have time and resources to play with this game but KAs just got here. No saved-up resources. Got to work hard and make money. Buy a house and send kids to good schools. I mean Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.
Drugs have no place in KA community. And, KA will turn users to police.
99% of KAs will. 1% are crazy and fucked up and they may protect their druggies till their other children get infected. Then, they will turn these losers in.
The parent of VA tech killer were not only hiding from VA students but they were hiding from KAs.
KAs are somewhat different from other minorities. We want to excel.
We sure do.
KAs are also different in how they relate to police.
Many KA shop keepers got held up by a gunman or got beaten or shot.
Who they trust them to save them? LA police.
KAs love police. I do not know if this has something to do with KAs experience with USFK. Most them served in military service with the US Army in the country. Some served in VietNam fighting side-by-side with US Army.
No hangups. Just love toward America and American police.
We support the LA police 100%. Some KAs are serving as LA policemen.
KAs are in different mindset from Blacks or Hispanics.
We are a part of the system. We are shopkeepers and centurions. LA is our city.
BADUK, SHUT UP.
That’s 3 posts in a row you wrote. Are you just talking to yourself? Why not open Notepad and do it there then?
I can’t trust anything you say about Koreans, or Korean Americans, or even what you had for breakfast this morning, because your mind laid bare is a cesspit of irrational passions. It looks like you don’t actually think, you just feel.
I don’t believe KAs support police 100%.
I don’t believe KAs have a different mindset than “Blacks” or “Hispanics”.
I don’t believe LA is “your” city.
Basically, I don’t believe anything you say.
“And he came to Nazareth, where he had been reared: and according to the custon, on the Sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue and he stood up to read. So the scroll of the prophet Issiah was handed him and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: The Lords spirit in upon me, because he annointed me to declare the good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, and to preach Gods acceptable year. With that he rolled up the scroll handed it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed upon him. he stated to them: “Today this scripture that you have heard is fulfilled. BADUK, do you notice the attitude that the head of your church is displaying? If Jesus were to talk about “druggies” the way that you do, who in their right mind would have listened to him? The Korean boy who was shot by the police may have had problems and needed help. Did you notice that Jesus came to help the CRUSHED ONES? It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that some of these “druggies” may just be “CRUSHED.” That would be YOUR job. To help the crushed. Nooo, not be a sucker, just offer help. What you are displaying is an arrogant disregard for the very savior that bought you with a price. Or have you forgotten? Your not impressing anybody here with your brand of Christianity, now are you? I think you probably could say your “STUMBLING” your fellow Marmot hole friends…JAMES 4-6 God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones……..With Love, THE NUN…… Sorry everyone, it was just too much for me to be silent…
‘And people wonder why I dislike kyopos.’ dogbert
you mean male kyopos, don’t you?
波衣古衣皆次
Nope, I mean kyopos who hold and espouse those views articulated by baduk, which I find deeply offensive. From what I’ve seen, there are many female kyopos who hold them as well. Korean ethnocentrism and xenophobia is remarkably “gender neutral”.
You’ll have to work harder to try to catch me on such a flimsy proposition.
What good reason could he have possibly had to ignore the police who were obviously pointing guns at him and threatening his life should he fail to comply ? Did this man not speak English ? Well he still would have realized from what he saw, what he was suppose to do.Was he out of his mind on drugs or simply insane? Well then who knows what he was capable of doing, and what exact danger he posed to the police or anyone else for that matter. Did the police have available non-leathal weapons that were within reach in a timely manner? Who knows. Simply the man should have stopped, dropped the weapon, put his hands in the air then laid down on the ground. And if he wasn’t Korean-American who would be crying out now ? What if he was, humm 1/4 Korean, 1/4 Japanese, and 1/2 Afro American?
There’s alot we don’t know. Whether or not he was on drugs would still be speculative. Why is there so much that we don’t know? Are his parents being forthright? Are the police? If he wasn’t on drugs and he had no previous mental problems, why was he in front of the liquor store at one in the morning with a tire iron? Is this something any of you has done? I don’t know anyone who has ever done that. Were there in fact cars that had been vandalized by a man with a tire iron? It would be pretty easy to prove. There’d have been shards of glass imbedded in the tire iron. Why hasn’t this come out? It’s been over a month.
He called his mother’s job “dark and brooding”. A very strange way to describe a nurse. That’s certainly not how I’d describe someone in that occupation.
We don’t know and it seems like nobody is talking. Shouldn’t they have gotten back a toxicology report by now? Why is there so little coming out with all the scrutiny this case is getting? I believe he was extremely distraught, otherwise I can’t explain his behavior. But it could have been merely a romantic breakup. I’m certainly not going to speculate and throw my speculations out there as if they were fact.
Oh yeah, and if cars had been vandalized there would have been some cars with broken windows. We should have been able to ascertain that using a cub reporter from the local middle school.
I find it troubling that guys like baduk can’t formulate a logically consistant arguement. I think the gist (correct me if I’m wrong) is that in order to be Korean, you have to be both a Christian and a non-illegal drug user? Something to that effect?
If that’s the case, then I have to agree with # 81 in that it’s a “No True Scotsman” logical fallacy.
What the true tragedy here so far is not that baduk stubbornly refuses to be logically consistant in his reasoning (or lack of reasoning) it’s that he’s wasting all of our time in expounding those thoughts in this entry and we can’t dive deeping into more meaningful conversation regarding Michael Cho, excessive use of force, the police, community issues, Crime in Northern OC, etc.
I say we just ignore him. He’s “explained” himself away from any relevance anyways. Any comments responding to him appears to only egg him on, so let’s just stop.
‘You’ll have to work harder to try to catch me on such a flimsy proposition.’ dog
not really; you’ve told me what i wanted to know. you alright, dog.
波衣古衣皆次
#100… I thought about all the things that Baduk said last night and I’ve come to the conclusion that he gets some sort of pleasure saying the