Comments on: “Spoils of War” or Illegal Gain? http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/ Korea... in Blog Format Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:32:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Zonath http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-140265 Zonath Sun, 09 Mar 2008 05:05:04 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-140265 #12 - I wholeheartedly approve of China's actions re: Gando, seeing as I really don't have a leg to stand on to criticize them, living in the US and all... #12 - I wholeheartedly approve of China’s actions re: Gando, seeing as I really don’t have a leg to stand on to criticize them, living in the US and all…

]]> By: R. Elgin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-140264 R. Elgin Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:58:04 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-140264 "Lost" Hong Kong was leased by the British with the understanding that that lease would run out. Gando was not leased, rather the subject of an illegal Japanese treaty. There is a big difference therein. The Communist Party in China has a way of ethnic cleansing -- as demonstrated in Tibet -- by flooding areas with Han Chinese to undermine any legitimate claims made by any one else. I certainly would not be surprised that there are more Han Chinese now living in any place that is contested by China since this is how they re-paint their thievery so as to mimic legitimacy. I must consider that centuries from now, this may not matter since empires come and go with the passage of time and the place where I live now has had more than a few names in the last 2,000 years. Despite such, the Chinese Government of today are the children of thieves and brazen ones at that. “Lost” Hong Kong was leased by the British with the understanding that that lease would run out. Gando was not leased, rather the subject of an illegal Japanese treaty. There is a big difference therein. The Communist Party in China has a way of ethnic cleansing — as demonstrated in Tibet — by flooding areas with Han Chinese to undermine any legitimate claims made by any one else. I certainly would not be surprised that there are more Han Chinese now living in any place that is contested by China since this is how they re-paint their thievery so as to mimic legitimacy.

I must consider that centuries from now, this may not matter since empires come and go with the passage of time and the place where I live now has had more than a few names in the last 2,000 years. Despite such, the Chinese Government of today are the children of thieves and brazen ones at that.

]]> By: Lost somewhere http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-140250 Lost somewhere Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:22:12 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-140250 To R. Elgin I checkes that Gando-wiki page. it says the region is perceived by many to be a Korean region. who r "many" ? koreans? any non korean academic proof? Regarding the question if China should keep the territory... Well. Koreans, thats the reality presently: - The region u r talking about is 90% han + other minorities. Koreans only made up to 4% of the population there. Dont blame China, the 1 child policy applies to han chinese only. - There r two ways to get back that place: 1. War -> bad . 2. Vote according to the rules of democracy(1 Person = 1 Vote) -> stil China will win. Han=90%. Thats it. Ppl seems to hold on to the idea that once a place belongs to a nation it must forever belong to that nation. Wrong. A place belongs to the ppl who live there and what they accept as their nationality. So, if Korea lost that place 100 years ago, and now, the koreans became a minority of 4%, its no more ur land. For the ppl who live there, its also unfair to decide over their head that they will be Koreans without their approval. Like HK/China. To Stacked: 1. I said TWO nations who f*k up history, i included China. 2. Just because Koreas name comes from Goguryeo, it does not mean this ancient culture belongs exclusively to Korea. A name says nothing about a culture some 2000 years ago. Its just a hint that u came from that tribe. 3. Never said the commies r good. To R. Elgin
I checkes that Gando-wiki page. it says the region is perceived by many to be a Korean region. who r “many” ? koreans? any non korean academic proof?

Regarding the question if China should keep the territory…

Well. Koreans, thats the reality presently:
- The region u r talking about is 90% han + other minorities. Koreans only made up to 4% of the population there. Dont blame China, the 1 child policy applies to han chinese only.
- There r two ways to get back that place: 1. War -> bad . 2. Vote according to the rules of democracy(1 Person = 1 Vote) -> stil China will win. Han=90%. Thats it.
Ppl seems to hold on to the idea that once a place belongs to a nation it must forever belong to that nation. Wrong. A place belongs to the ppl who live there and what they accept as their nationality. So, if Korea lost that place 100 years ago, and now, the koreans became a minority of 4%, its no more ur land. For the ppl who live there, its also unfair to decide over their head that they will be Koreans without their approval. Like HK/China.

To Stacked:

1. I said TWO nations who f*k up history, i included China.
2. Just because Koreas name comes from Goguryeo, it does not mean this ancient culture belongs exclusively to Korea. A name says nothing about a culture some 2000 years ago. Its just a hint that u came from that tribe.
3. Never said the commies r good.

]]> By: Zonath http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139716 Zonath Fri, 07 Mar 2008 05:53:03 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139716 <blockquote>A large portion of territory — understood by most to be Korean — was illegally given to China in 1909 by Japan, though the Chinese deny this was ever really Korean land, despite proof to the contrary.</blockquote> Didn't North Korea pretty much do the same thing when they settled their northern border with China sometime mid-century? I seem to remember hearing something about that, but don't really have that much recollection of it. I guess you could say that the region's been given to China twice... illegally. <blockquote>Koreans distorting history? Like?</blockquote> Oh gee... wow... If that's not a troll-baiting question around here, I dunno <i>what</i> is.

A large portion of territory — understood by most to be Korean — was illegally given to China in 1909 by Japan, though the Chinese deny this was ever really Korean land, despite proof to the contrary.

Didn’t North Korea pretty much do the same thing when they settled their northern border with China sometime mid-century? I seem to remember hearing something about that, but don’t really have that much recollection of it. I guess you could say that the region’s been given to China twice… illegally.

Koreans distorting history? Like?

Oh gee… wow… If that’s not a troll-baiting question around here, I dunno what is.

]]> By: Stacked http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139701 Stacked Fri, 07 Mar 2008 05:15:52 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139701 Koreans distorting history? Like? China and Japan have been distorting Asian history since the beginning of the industrial age. Goguryeo is Chinese? The name Korea is derived from Goguryeo. Tibet and Taiwan are Chinese? Taiwan maybe but Tibet aren't even ethnically the same. Manchu's and Mongols are apparently Chinese as well. Not to mention the disinformation from the Communist govt. Koreans distorting history? Like?

China and Japan have been distorting Asian history since the beginning of the industrial age.

Goguryeo is Chinese? The name Korea is derived from Goguryeo. Tibet and Taiwan are Chinese? Taiwan maybe but Tibet aren’t even ethnically the same. Manchu’s and Mongols are apparently Chinese as well.

Not to mention the disinformation from the Communist govt.

]]> By: R. Elgin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139695 R. Elgin Fri, 07 Mar 2008 04:43:37 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139695 Your observation "Lost" is very much lost upon most people. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gando_Convention" rel="nofollow">A large portion of territory -- understood by most to be Korean -- was illegally given to China in 1909 by Japan</a>, though the Chinese deny this was ever really Korean land, despite proof to the contrary. After the war, much what Japan had done illegally had been undone, except for this illicit treaty. As for the editorial mentioned in this thread, a big question that arises from this is "if Russia can take great art during wartime and claim this is a justified act on their part, should all war booty be regarded the same way? Is this legal or fair? Should China or any other nation keep art or territory that gained through acts of war that has been legally determined to be ill-gotten gains? As for Korean history, there is very little historical distortion, regarding Korea, from accredited academics (with the exception of certain political elements in China). If you, however, use Korean TV dramas as an indicator of how Koreans regard their history, then you are indeed "lost". Your observation “Lost” is very much lost upon most people. A large portion of territory — understood by most to be Korean — was illegally given to China in 1909 by Japan, though the Chinese deny this was ever really Korean land, despite proof to the contrary. After the war, much what Japan had done illegally had been undone, except for this illicit treaty. As for the editorial mentioned in this thread, a big question that arises from this is “if Russia can take great art during wartime and claim this is a justified act on their part, should all war booty be regarded the same way? Is this legal or fair? Should China or any other nation keep art or territory that gained through acts of war that has been legally determined to be ill-gotten gains?

As for Korean history, there is very little historical distortion, regarding Korea, from accredited academics (with the exception of certain political elements in China). If you, however, use Korean TV dramas as an indicator of how Koreans regard their history, then you are indeed “lost”.

]]> By: Lost somewhere http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139625 Lost somewhere Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:26:45 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-139625 Nazi germany brought unspeakable suffering to russia and it didnt payed any reparations to russia. i see no problem in russias attitude. Lets say its russias payback for germany. As for the NorthEast Project, well, i didnt know one can claim a place which was once occupied by self-proclaimed ancestor of Koreans some 2000 years ago stil belongs to Korea or is in any way korean. (The Mongols should probably start to claim half asia+europe to be mongol as well?) China & Korea didnt even exist at that time. therefore it belongs to both cultures, if Koreans r indeed descendant of the tribe at that time. They have to prove it. Last thing, i know what China is doing is probably not kosher, but in my view, the koreans also distort their history quite a bit. U just have to look at the korean history TVseries. i guess when it comes to f*k up history, we got two very talented nations here. Nazi germany brought unspeakable suffering to russia and it didnt payed any reparations to russia. i see no problem in russias attitude. Lets say its russias payback for germany.
As for the NorthEast Project, well, i didnt know one can claim a place which was once occupied by self-proclaimed ancestor of Koreans some 2000 years ago stil belongs to Korea or is in any way korean. (The Mongols should probably start to claim half asia+europe to be mongol as well?)
China & Korea didnt even exist at that time. therefore it belongs to both cultures, if Koreans r indeed descendant of the tribe at that time. They have to prove it. Last thing, i know what China is doing is probably not kosher, but in my view, the koreans also distort their history quite a bit. U just have to look at the korean history TVseries. i guess when it comes to f*k up history, we got two very talented nations here.

]]> By: setnaffa http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-137995 setnaffa Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:48:33 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-137995 sad that there are still people willing to fight over the ownership of this art... all it does is encourage people to hide and hoard... sad that there are still people willing to fight over the ownership of this art… all it does is encourage people to hide and hoard…

]]> By: dogbert http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-137771 dogbert Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:01:37 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-137771 <blockquote>Putin’s Russia is the political and spiritual descendent of Stalin’s Soviet Union, which in turn carried on the legacies of Nazi Germany. I don’t think the rightful owners will ever be able to do more than visit their looted collections.</blockquote> I resent that remark!

Putin’s Russia is the political and spiritual descendent of Stalin’s Soviet Union, which in turn carried on the legacies of Nazi Germany. I don’t think the rightful owners will ever be able to do more than visit their looted collections.

I resent that remark!

]]> By: slim http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-137768 slim Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:39:45 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/27/spoils-of-war-or-illegal-gain/#comment-137768 Putin's Russia is the political and spiritual descendent of Stalin's Soviet Union, which in turn carried on the legacies of Nazi Germany. I don't think the rightful owners will ever be able to do more than visit their looted collections. Putin’s Russia is the political and spiritual descendent of Stalin’s Soviet Union, which in turn carried on the legacies of Nazi Germany. I don’t think the rightful owners will ever be able to do more than visit their looted collections.

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