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	<title>Comments on: Americans Welcome to Spend $5,895+ in North Korea</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  7 Sep 2008 06:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137521</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137521</guid>
		<description>Not quite.  I didn't read #13.   It's not as if I get out of my way to read your comments, you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite.  I didn&#8217;t read #13.   It&#8217;s not as if I get out of my way to read your comments, you know.</p>
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		<title>By: King Baeksu</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137368</link>
		<dc:creator>King Baeksu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137368</guid>
		<description>"And you actually believe that was the real tomb?"

What I actually believe is that my usage of quotation marks in comment #13 was entirely lost on you.

I hear Vicki is looking for a partner in her remedial reading lessons. 

For the record, though, my guides did mention Comrade WJK by name because he is quite famous in int'l revolutionary circles.

Yes, they actually said that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And you actually believe that was the real tomb?&#8221;</p>
<p>What I actually believe is that my usage of quotation marks in comment #13 was entirely lost on you.</p>
<p>I hear Vicki is looking for a partner in her remedial reading lessons. </p>
<p>For the record, though, my guides did mention Comrade WJK by name because he is quite famous in int&#8217;l revolutionary circles.</p>
<p>Yes, they actually said that!</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137362</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137362</guid>
		<description>#15,

And you actually believe that was the real tomb?  I'm sure you also enjoyed your visit to Kim Jong Il's birthplace (or  should I say, Kim Yura's birthplace) on Beakdu Mountain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#15,</p>
<p>And you actually believe that was the real tomb?  I&#8217;m sure you also enjoyed your visit to Kim Jong Il&#8217;s birthplace (or  should I say, Kim Yura&#8217;s birthplace) on Beakdu Mountain.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137350</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137350</guid>
		<description>Hoju is too short-sighted, thinking sanctions don't work.  Just look at Cuba- a mere 49 years after the embargo, and we have forced Fidel to hand over power to..well, to his brother, but that's not important, nor is the fact that it really wasn't because of sanctions, nor was...actually, it had nothing at all to do w/ sanctions and nothing has really changed but that doesn't mean it won't work in the North, damnit!
Anyone willing to pay five grand for a few weeks in the Koreas deserves to be separated from their cash, but self-righteous posters who believe these tourist dollars matter are just as lost. The best way to bring about change is to provide examples of a better life.  Engagement- particularly civic engagement- is a tried-and-true tactic, and its influence in North Korea can be seen.  Time will tell...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoju is too short-sighted, thinking sanctions don&#8217;t work.  Just look at Cuba- a mere 49 years after the embargo, and we have forced Fidel to hand over power to..well, to his brother, but that&#8217;s not important, nor is the fact that it really wasn&#8217;t because of sanctions, nor was&#8230;actually, it had nothing at all to do w/ sanctions and nothing has really changed but that doesn&#8217;t mean it won&#8217;t work in the North, damnit!<br />
Anyone willing to pay five grand for a few weeks in the Koreas deserves to be separated from their cash, but self-righteous posters who believe these tourist dollars matter are just as lost. The best way to bring about change is to provide examples of a better life.  Engagement- particularly civic engagement- is a tried-and-true tactic, and its influence in North Korea can be seen.  Time will tell&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: hoju_saram</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137297</link>
		<dc:creator>hoju_saram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137297</guid>
		<description>Sonagi, I don't think western visitors do that much good at all, but I don't think they do any harm, either. I just think the stance by folk such as @18, that the DPRK can get transformed from within by squeezing it from the outside is naive in the extreme. You can't give a country capitalism without giving it money.

And I agree with you re the DVDs. I'd also like to see a massive increase in leaflet/radio drops. 

@27, Then I stand corrected and apologize. Good for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi, I don&#8217;t think western visitors do that much good at all, but I don&#8217;t think they do any harm, either. I just think the stance by folk such as @18, that the DPRK can get transformed from within by squeezing it from the outside is naive in the extreme. You can&#8217;t give a country capitalism without giving it money.</p>
<p>And I agree with you re the DVDs. I&#8217;d also like to see a massive increase in leaflet/radio drops. </p>
<p>@27, Then I stand corrected and apologize. Good for you.</p>
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		<title>By: user-81</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137292</link>
		<dc:creator>user-81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137292</guid>
		<description>"And thanks for the compliment, User-81."

Compliment? That was an oppressive expression of pressure that you had better maintain high standards or else we'll turn on you. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And thanks for the compliment, User-81.&#8221;</p>
<p>Compliment? That was an oppressive expression of pressure that you had better maintain high standards or else we&#8217;ll turn on you. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: King Baeksu</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137271</link>
		<dc:creator>King Baeksu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137271</guid>
		<description>"You should know that if you ate any vegetables or booze in North Korea, there is a greater than even chance some were farmed/produced at the concentration camps."

Even the PBR?:

http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/view.php?id=bug&#38;page=4&#38;sn1=&#38;divpage=1&#38;sn=off&#38;ss=on&#38;sc=on&#38;select_arrange=headnum&#38;desc=asc&#38;no=435

Instead of whining about American tourists in North Korea, y'all should save your breath for the majority of South Koreans who don't even WANT Reunification with the North anymore.

That's the real outrage, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You should know that if you ate any vegetables or booze in North Korea, there is a greater than even chance some were farmed/produced at the concentration camps.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even the PBR?:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/view.php?id=bug&amp;page=4&amp;sn1=&amp;divpage=1&amp;sn=off&amp;ss=on&amp;sc=on&amp;select_arrange=headnum&amp;desc=asc&amp;no=435" rel="nofollow">http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/.....amp;no=435</a></p>
<p>Instead of whining about American tourists in North Korea, y&#8217;all should save your breath for the majority of South Koreans who don&#8217;t even WANT Reunification with the North anymore.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the real outrage, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Richardson</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137267</link>
		<dc:creator>Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137267</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But then again, I believe in soft engagement, and according to some people in the blogosphere hereabouts, I’m morally evil, so take what I say with a grain of salt.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, you give yourself way too much credit, Mr. Engagement. Hint; North Korea loves taking your cash and knows they can control your interaction w/locals. 

You should know that if you ate any vegetables or booze in North Korea, there is a greater than even chance some were farmed/produced at the concentration camps. 

I hope the pics were worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But then again, I believe in soft engagement, and according to some people in the blogosphere hereabouts, I’m morally evil, so take what I say with a grain of salt.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, you give yourself way too much credit, Mr. Engagement. Hint; North Korea loves taking your cash and knows they can control your interaction w/locals. </p>
<p>You should know that if you ate any vegetables or booze in North Korea, there is a greater than even chance some were farmed/produced at the concentration camps. </p>
<p>I hope the pics were worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: John from Daejeon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137264</link>
		<dc:creator>John from Daejeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137264</guid>
		<description>I donate money to help with the underground railroad to help feed, house, and hide the lucky ones who escape into China, but who are then forced into a netherworld of existence as they hide from the Chinese authorities or face either death or imprisonment if they are returned to the North.

http://www.linkglobal.org/

When I'm back in the states I try to increase awareness of this horrible situation.  The money I raise and donate helps North Korean people without ever lining the dear leader's, or his military elite's, pockets.  Not much, I know, but I'm doing something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I donate money to help with the underground railroad to help feed, house, and hide the lucky ones who escape into China, but who are then forced into a netherworld of existence as they hide from the Chinese authorities or face either death or imprisonment if they are returned to the North.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.linkglobal.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.linkglobal.org/</a></p>
<p>When I&#8217;m back in the states I try to increase awareness of this horrible situation.  The money I raise and donate helps North Korean people without ever lining the dear leader&#8217;s, or his military elite&#8217;s, pockets.  Not much, I know, but I&#8217;m doing something.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137263</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/24/americans-welcome-to-spend-5895-in-north-korea/#comment-137263</guid>
		<description>@#24:

You are correct, Tom.  When I checked out the itinerary at Snow Lion, I realized that the title of the post was misleading but decided to leave it.  I still think almost $6,000 is expensive.  Snow Lion offers many, many other 10-14 day expeditions to other Asian destinations, including Bhutan, which severely restricts the number of foreign visitors; most other tours cost $4,000-5,000.  Koryo Tours, who is actually running the North Korean leg of the journey, charges 1790 Euros for a four-day trip, so I suspect it is the 3 days in the Hermit Kingdom that is driving up the cost.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Tell me, John, if you think tourism is so unhelpful for the DPRK, why is there such a minutae quota of people allowed to enter? If the money gained by the regime is of more benefit than the danger it poses, why not open the flood gates? The people would surely come (and btw the chinese are already going there in the tens of thousands).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Obviously, the North Koreans are striking a balance between bringing in hard currency and the risks of allowing in visitors, who are accompanied by minders and whose activities are strictly controlled.  There are many more Chinese visitors, but unlike you, Hojusaram, they are not so impressed with what they see.  The cult of personality surrounding the Kims and the stark contrast between mammoth monuments and the poverty of everyday life remind them of the dark period of the Cultural Revolution.  

Methinks you give yourself and your fellow Western visitors too much credit for opening up North Korea.  Chinese imports, including South Korean DVDs, and cross-border contacts between the Chinese and the North Koreans are probably having a greater impact.  The longstanding relationship between China and the DPRK means that people from the two countries can have more candid exchanges.  Young Chinese are scornfully arrogant towards North Korea, but older generations, who remember lives of extreme poverty under Mao, look at their neighbor with pity.

And thanks for the compliment, User-81.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#24:</p>
<p>You are correct, Tom.  When I checked out the itinerary at Snow Lion, I realized that the title of the post was misleading but decided to leave it.  I still think almost $6,000 is expensive.  Snow Lion offers many, many other 10-14 day expeditions to other Asian destinations, including Bhutan, which severely restricts the number of foreign visitors; most other tours cost $4,000-5,000.  Koryo Tours, who is actually running the North Korean leg of the journey, charges 1790 Euros for a four-day trip, so I suspect it is the 3 days in the Hermit Kingdom that is driving up the cost.</p>
<blockquote><p>Tell me, John, if you think tourism is so unhelpful for the DPRK, why is there such a minutae quota of people allowed to enter? If the money gained by the regime is of more benefit than the danger it poses, why not open the flood gates? The people would surely come (and btw the chinese are already going there in the tens of thousands).</p></blockquote>
<p>Obviously, the North Koreans are striking a balance between bringing in hard currency and the risks of allowing in visitors, who are accompanied by minders and whose activities are strictly controlled.  There are many more Chinese visitors, but unlike you, Hojusaram, they are not so impressed with what they see.  The cult of personality surrounding the Kims and the stark contrast between mammoth monuments and the poverty of everyday life remind them of the dark period of the Cultural Revolution.  </p>
<p>Methinks you give yourself and your fellow Western visitors too much credit for opening up North Korea.  Chinese imports, including South Korean DVDs, and cross-border contacts between the Chinese and the North Koreans are probably having a greater impact.  The longstanding relationship between China and the DPRK means that people from the two countries can have more candid exchanges.  Young Chinese are scornfully arrogant towards North Korea, but older generations, who remember lives of extreme poverty under Mao, look at their neighbor with pity.</p>
<p>And thanks for the compliment, User-81.</p>
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