Today’s NYT features a short ad-in-disguise for US travel company Snow Lion Expeditions, which has teamed up with Koryo, a British organization that runs regular guided tours into North Korea, to offer Americans an equal opportunity to financially support the North Korean regime in exchange for tickets to the Arirang Mass Games and craptacular tourist sites like Kim Il-sung’s mausoleum and the Juche Monument.
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35 Comments
Are they back to accepting payment in dollars now or is everything still in euros?
Snow Lion’s website lists the price in US dollars, so I would assume that currency would be accepted. Checking the trip itinerary on the website, I see that only three out of ten days is spent in North Korea while five full days are spent in the South. Hustle in the Americans for a few days, take their money, and shove them out - that seems to be the plan in North Korea.
Well, that’s pretty damn expensive. I did the same thing for less than half, flights included. As for financing the regime, the lion’s share of profits will go to the US travel agent, then Koryo (the company I used), and what’s left will have to go through a lot of corrupt hands before any of it ends up financing Kim’s security forces. That’s money that will get fed into the DPRK foreign currency black market, which IMHO is a good thing.
But then again, I believe in soft engagement, and according to some people in the blogosphere hereabouts, I’m morally evil, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
As for Kim Il Sung’s mausoleum being “craptacular”, I can assure it’s one of the most astonishing things I’ve ever seen (not far behind the Mass Games).
You can’t open a country up without giving it money. What’s the alternative, Sonagi? Try to shut the country down using sanctions? They don’t work, since the DPRK can get what it wants via China. Tourism is on the increase, and that’s a good thing IMHO. Even at Kaesung.
What do your girlfriends think of that strategy?
Gen. Curtis B. LeMay Demolition and Pavement, Inc.
My girlfriends? Bit ambitious don’t you think?
Re Gen. Curtis, they already tried that in the DPRK (and North Vietnam). Did sweet fuck all. Could try it again, but then you’d probably kill the majority of people in Seoul in the artillery counter-attack, and you might not achieve anything substantial anyway. There’s also that little thing called a nuclear bomb the norks have to consider. Any other suggestions?
If you think this building is “one of the most astonishing things” you’ve ever seen, then you REALLY need to get out and travel more. SOUTH Korea would be a good place to start.
gotta fix that link Sonagi. In the meantime, here’s a shot I took:
http://www.ghosttreemedia.com/.....soleum.jpg
btw its the interior that is astonishing, not the outside. I’ve done a lot of travel, 4 years worth in the ROK. Trust me, its an incredible place.
Sonagi, read this:
http://lastknownlocation.blogs.....ident.html
Sonagi, there is no tourist site in the South that rivals seeing the shrivelled brown potato head of Kim Il-Sung up close and in person. I agree whole-heartedly with Australia Person and consider it money well spent.
There is more to see than just old prune. Some photos I took:
http://www.ghosttreemedia.com/.....mp;page=24
“There is more to see than just old prune.”
Agreed, I was particularly impressed to see the doctorate in int’l relations there that he had been given by California’s Kensington University. Wherever that is.
Kim Il-sung was a truly Great Man of World History(TM).
Should’ve written a zine about it Baeksu.
I meant in North Korea btw, not in the mausoleum.
“Should’ve written a zine about it Baeksu.”
I wrote a 3,000-word story about it for The Korea Times and The Brooklyn Rail.
The Chosun Ilbo was happy with my columns I was writing for them until I suggested I wanted to write a story about my most recent trip up North last year. Gee, I wonder why?
I saw the “actual” remains of Tangun there and that was pretty cool, too.
please say more about the real remains of Tangun, King Baeksu.
Please set aside any differences we have.
I am genuinely curious.
Well, Black-haired Foreigner, when they opened the lid of the sarcophagus and I saw that it was empty, I asked my guides, “What happened? Where did the bones go?”
They replied solemnly, “In the timeless words of WJK — We blame Japan!”
I want to go on record that Sonagi’s contributions are a good addition to Marmot’s Hole. Same with Mins when he’s focusing on defense stories.
#15
LOL… just… LOL, dude.
“tong ee jak da.”
“geuh reut ee jak da.”
etc, etc.
A real man wouldn’t be so.
hoju,
Thanks for the link, but you left off this one:
( http://lastknownlocation.blogs.....ation.html )
Did you make it into the country side? If things are so lovely there, what’s with all the request for aid? Do they not have vegetable and fruit seed? Can’t they buy these food seeds with all the dope they are exporting?
I saw a documentary about a boy who escaped to the South who told of how he and his brother were forced to kill their own mother who had been raped and became pregnant by the Gulag guards. Before she died and they were to bury her, she begged them to eat her to help keep them alive. That’s love under circumstances that I can’t believe are happening in today’s world.
I saw another documentary that showed human flesh being sold on the North Korean black market as there was no other food available.
Do you think visiting the North is helping these people? Money going into North Korea benefits only the elite–these modern day Nazis and their belief in a “one pure race world.” Watch the following three documentaries and let your conscious decide if giving money to the dear leader was, and is, worth it.
( http://video.google.com/videop.....;plindex=2 )
( http://video.google.com/videop.....;plindex=2 )
( http://video.google.com/videop.....;plindex=0 )
Damn, I get worked up and use “conscious” instead of “conscience.”
“Do you think visiting the North is helping these people?”
Do you think leaving sanctimonious comments on blogs is helping these people?
All it does is make YOU feel better about YOURSELF.
Christ John, I didn’t say it was “lovely” I said it was “astonishing”. And is it a crime to say something is beautiful without adding that it is also repressed? I’ve already made clear my position about whther or not my money is contributing to the regime’s longetivity/viciousness.
Tell me, John, if you think tourism is so unhelpful for the DPRK, why is there such a minutae quota of people allowed to enter? If the money gained by the regime is of more benefit than the danger it poses, why not open the flood gates? The people would surely come (and btw the chinese are already going there in the tens of thousands).
And I’ll also second Baeksu’s comment. What have you done to help anyone north of the DMZ, other than pay them letter service on a blog?
And I’ll second what Baeksu has said - what have you done that is helping these people.
@16 I’ll second that too.
If you look at the Snow Lion Travel web site, you will note that the total price includes touring in both South and North Korea over a two-week period. So when you throw in a trip down to Haein-sa, hanging out in Seoul, etc., the price becomes more reasonable than simply thinking the price is for North Korea alone.
If nothing else, it gives at least SOME of the locals there a window on the outside world, even if the people allowed to interact with the outside world are specially chosen.
I just got back from Gaesong a couple of weeks ago, and had a wonderful time. I am quite sure that at least one of the NK guides I had was not a true believer. He kind of insinuated it to me in a very rounabout and oblique way.
I have no love for KJI’s regime there or the treatment of the people at the hands of his government and the military, but the more that locals get exposed to the outside world, the less of a grip KJI and friends will have on the people.
That the money goes to the regime is irrelevany IMO, when the locals’ eyes are slowly being opened, and they learn things through personal experience, such as: Americans (I am American) and South Koreans are NOT the monsters that they were taught we were. A few jokes back and forth with my guides as well as some light-hearted conversation about things as varied as jobs and education to relationship status and hobbies ensured that they probably went home that night wondering if the Great Leader had it wrong. All of this was punctuated by sincere handshakes when they saw me off at exit-immigration.
Think what you want, but I am sure I will be back up there again in the not so distant future. Of course I would like to see more of a guarantee that the money goes to improving the lives of the people, as well as major improvements in human rights there.
@#24:
You are correct, Tom. When I checked out the itinerary at Snow Lion, I realized that the title of the post was misleading but decided to leave it. I still think almost $6,000 is expensive. Snow Lion offers many, many other 10-14 day expeditions to other Asian destinations, including Bhutan, which severely restricts the number of foreign visitors; most other tours cost $4,000-5,000. Koryo Tours, who is actually running the North Korean leg of the journey, charges 1790 Euros for a four-day trip, so I suspect it is the 3 days in the Hermit Kingdom that is driving up the cost.
Obviously, the North Koreans are striking a balance between bringing in hard currency and the risks of allowing in visitors, who are accompanied by minders and whose activities are strictly controlled. There are many more Chinese visitors, but unlike you, Hojusaram, they are not so impressed with what they see. The cult of personality surrounding the Kims and the stark contrast between mammoth monuments and the poverty of everyday life remind them of the dark period of the Cultural Revolution.
Methinks you give yourself and your fellow Western visitors too much credit for opening up North Korea. Chinese imports, including South Korean DVDs, and cross-border contacts between the Chinese and the North Koreans are probably having a greater impact. The longstanding relationship between China and the DPRK means that people from the two countries can have more candid exchanges. Young Chinese are scornfully arrogant towards North Korea, but older generations, who remember lives of extreme poverty under Mao, look at their neighbor with pity.
And thanks for the compliment, User-81.
I donate money to help with the underground railroad to help feed, house, and hide the lucky ones who escape into China, but who are then forced into a netherworld of existence as they hide from the Chinese authorities or face either death or imprisonment if they are returned to the North.
http://www.linkglobal.org/
When I’m back in the states I try to increase awareness of this horrible situation. The money I raise and donate helps North Korean people without ever lining the dear leader’s, or his military elite’s, pockets. Not much, I know, but I’m doing something.
Yeah, you give yourself way too much credit, Mr. Engagement. Hint; North Korea loves taking your cash and knows they can control your interaction w/locals.
You should know that if you ate any vegetables or booze in North Korea, there is a greater than even chance some were farmed/produced at the concentration camps.
I hope the pics were worth it.
“You should know that if you ate any vegetables or booze in North Korea, there is a greater than even chance some were farmed/produced at the concentration camps.”
Even the PBR?:
http://www.kingbaeksu.com/bbs/.....amp;no=435
Instead of whining about American tourists in North Korea, y’all should save your breath for the majority of South Koreans who don’t even WANT Reunification with the North anymore.
That’s the real outrage, in my opinion.
“And thanks for the compliment, User-81.”
Compliment? That was an oppressive expression of pressure that you had better maintain high standards or else we’ll turn on you.
Sonagi, I don’t think western visitors do that much good at all, but I don’t think they do any harm, either. I just think the stance by folk such as @18, that the DPRK can get transformed from within by squeezing it from the outside is naive in the extreme. You can’t give a country capitalism without giving it money.
And I agree with you re the DVDs. I’d also like to see a massive increase in leaflet/radio drops.
@27, Then I stand corrected and apologize. Good for you.
Hoju is too short-sighted, thinking sanctions don’t work. Just look at Cuba- a mere 49 years after the embargo, and we have forced Fidel to hand over power to..well, to his brother, but that’s not important, nor is the fact that it really wasn’t because of sanctions, nor was…actually, it had nothing at all to do w/ sanctions and nothing has really changed but that doesn’t mean it won’t work in the North, damnit!
Anyone willing to pay five grand for a few weeks in the Koreas deserves to be separated from their cash, but self-righteous posters who believe these tourist dollars matter are just as lost. The best way to bring about change is to provide examples of a better life. Engagement- particularly civic engagement- is a tried-and-true tactic, and its influence in North Korea can be seen. Time will tell…
#15,
And you actually believe that was the real tomb? I’m sure you also enjoyed your visit to Kim Jong Il’s birthplace (or should I say, Kim Yura’s birthplace) on Beakdu Mountain.
“And you actually believe that was the real tomb?”
What I actually believe is that my usage of quotation marks in comment #13 was entirely lost on you.
I hear Vicki is looking for a partner in her remedial reading lessons.
For the record, though, my guides did mention Comrade WJK by name because he is quite famous in int’l revolutionary circles.
Yes, they actually said that!
Not quite. I didn’t read #13. It’s not as if I get out of my way to read your comments, you know.