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	<title>Comments on: Korean Pines, Baseball bats, Warm Bugs and Resource Management</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed,  9 Jul 2008 08:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Railwaycharm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137489</link>
		<dc:creator>Railwaycharm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137489</guid>
		<description>#34. When you have Black Bears breaking into homes in New Jersey, I would say you can spare a few gall bladders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#34. When you have Black Bears breaking into homes in New Jersey, I would say you can spare a few gall bladders.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad Monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137445</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad Monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137445</guid>
		<description>For more on the linkage between Korean pines, cultural treasures, and the Sungnyemun disaster, see this article in the (English) Chosun Ilbo:
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200802/200802220017.html
"Japan's Hinoki Forests vs. Korea's Pine Forests" which contains an unflattering comparison with the East Sea neighbors. Of course the comparisons are not 'fair' if you consider the state of Korean forests in the late 19th century, when the countryside and mountians were almost entirely denuded except in the far north. Under the Japanese occupation there were initially substantial programs aimed at reforestation, but from the early 1930s onward the whole emphasis shifted to bleeding Korean resources dry, including the remaining forests, to supply the Japanese expansion into China and the Pacific, and the many rural people who had been displaced by Japanese land policies and fled to the mountains to practise slash and burn agriculture (hwajeonmin) also contributed to further forest degradation. Great efforts were made to plant pine trees in the 1960s and 70s and most of the pines in Korea today date from that time. And Japanese forest management in general is no paragon of wise stewardship... however, they have taken very good care of those hinoki forests that were meant to be used in the periodic rebuilding of shrines and temples.

Also, re Sonagi #34:
"To be fair, Elgin, North Americans have been quite voracious in pillaging our natural resources for profit. If there were a general market for deer antlers, bear paws, and the like in North America, there’d be a lot more poaching."
There has been in fact large-scale and systematic poaching of bears in the Great Smoky Mtns. National Park and surrounding national forest areas in the US... the bears are killed only for their gall bladders, which are sold by the white hunters to mostly Korean and Korean-American hanyak brokers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more on the linkage between Korean pines, cultural treasures, and the Sungnyemun disaster, see this article in the (English) Chosun Ilbo:<br />
<a href="http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200802/200802220017.html" rel="nofollow">http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....20017.html</a><br />
&#8220;Japan&#8217;s Hinoki Forests vs. Korea&#8217;s Pine Forests&#8221; which contains an unflattering comparison with the East Sea neighbors. Of course the comparisons are not &#8216;fair&#8217; if you consider the state of Korean forests in the late 19th century, when the countryside and mountians were almost entirely denuded except in the far north. Under the Japanese occupation there were initially substantial programs aimed at reforestation, but from the early 1930s onward the whole emphasis shifted to bleeding Korean resources dry, including the remaining forests, to supply the Japanese expansion into China and the Pacific, and the many rural people who had been displaced by Japanese land policies and fled to the mountains to practise slash and burn agriculture (hwajeonmin) also contributed to further forest degradation. Great efforts were made to plant pine trees in the 1960s and 70s and most of the pines in Korea today date from that time. And Japanese forest management in general is no paragon of wise stewardship&#8230; however, they have taken very good care of those hinoki forests that were meant to be used in the periodic rebuilding of shrines and temples.</p>
<p>Also, re Sonagi #34:<br />
&#8220;To be fair, Elgin, North Americans have been quite voracious in pillaging our natural resources for profit. If there were a general market for deer antlers, bear paws, and the like in North America, there’d be a lot more poaching.&#8221;<br />
There has been in fact large-scale and systematic poaching of bears in the Great Smoky Mtns. National Park and surrounding national forest areas in the US&#8230; the bears are killed only for their gall bladders, which are sold by the white hunters to mostly Korean and Korean-American hanyak brokers.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137339</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 03:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137339</guid>
		<description>To be fair, Elgin, North Americans have been quite voracious in pillaging our natural resources for profit.  If there were a general market for deer antlers, bear paws, and the like in North America, there'd be a lot more poaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, Elgin, North Americans have been quite voracious in pillaging our natural resources for profit.  If there were a general market for deer antlers, bear paws, and the like in North America, there&#8217;d be a lot more poaching.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137330</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 02:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137330</guid>
		<description>Sonagi clearly shows one real problem in how Koreans of older generations regard things in nature or almost anything around them: as a means to profit.  Just how much are the pines, the fish or any gate worth and, if worthy, how does one go about protecting them?  I'm only advocating better stewardship of these things and it can not wait until the older generations pass for then it would be too late for quite a few things.  


As a sidenote: out in the country here, when I take trips, I notice that many people have left the countryside, leaving quite a few deserted houses.  As a result, quite a few animals have really flourished, though some like wild pigs have become more of a menace to people walking around.  They were the main source of food for tigers and leopards, once upon a time, for there are no tigers down south now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi clearly shows one real problem in how Koreans of older generations regard things in nature or almost anything around them: as a means to profit.  Just how much are the pines, the fish or any gate worth and, if worthy, how does one go about protecting them?  I&#8217;m only advocating better stewardship of these things and it can not wait until the older generations pass for then it would be too late for quite a few things.  </p>
<p>As a sidenote: out in the country here, when I take trips, I notice that many people have left the countryside, leaving quite a few deserted houses.  As a result, quite a few animals have really flourished, though some like wild pigs have become more of a menace to people walking around.  They were the main source of food for tigers and leopards, once upon a time, for there are no tigers down south now.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137327</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 01:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137327</guid>
		<description>You make valid points, User-81, but you left out one significant cause of the depletion of wildlife - Hanyak.  While living in Korea, I recall reading in the paper a story about a man who found a rare white snake in the wild.  What did he plan to do with this amazing creature?  Sell it to a Hanyak pharmacist.

Wolves, once thought to be pests, were hunted to extinction in Yellowstone.  The present population is descended from a small pack brought in from Canada.

Bears and wolves need a lot of space to roam and hunt, but deer don't.  Outside of hunting season, deer are quite happy to share living space with humans, eating from gardens and garbage cans, leaving lyme disease-bearing ticks behind.

Despite Korea's high population density, its national parks are large enough to support large wildlife with proper population management and a willingness from Koreans not to hunt unlawfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make valid points, User-81, but you left out one significant cause of the depletion of wildlife - Hanyak.  While living in Korea, I recall reading in the paper a story about a man who found a rare white snake in the wild.  What did he plan to do with this amazing creature?  Sell it to a Hanyak pharmacist.</p>
<p>Wolves, once thought to be pests, were hunted to extinction in Yellowstone.  The present population is descended from a small pack brought in from Canada.</p>
<p>Bears and wolves need a lot of space to roam and hunt, but deer don&#8217;t.  Outside of hunting season, deer are quite happy to share living space with humans, eating from gardens and garbage cans, leaving lyme disease-bearing ticks behind.</p>
<p>Despite Korea&#8217;s high population density, its national parks are large enough to support large wildlife with proper population management and a willingness from Koreans not to hunt unlawfully.</p>
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		<title>By: user-81</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137323</link>
		<dc:creator>user-81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 01:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137323</guid>
		<description>"Back in the states, I am struck by how we take for granted the presence of large wildlife. Who hasn’t seen deer while living in the US or Canada? Our national, state, and provincial parks and forests are teeming with black bears, moose, wolves, and other animals that you don’t need binoculars and a field guide to identify."

I'm not defending South Korea, but the peninsula is in a completely different situation. Yellowstone N.P. is nearly 1/10 the entire size of the ROK. Add up the other national parks (Yosemite, Rocky Mountain Glacier, etc) and you have a giant area with very little human settlement and virtually no hunting, farming or other encroachment.  

"Koreans are rightfully proud of the natural beauty of their mountains, made accessible through user-friendly, affordable national parks, yet seem to have done little to protect native fauna."

South Korea has forty times the population density of the United States, with few pockets that have escaped human encroachment (animal habitats need wider areas than Korea's national parks). The war and starvation must have also dealt a major blow to wildlife, and they never bounced back. 

Much better management is necessary, but how many deer, black bears, moose, wolves, and other animals would you see if the US had 4.8 billion people (same area but with ROK's population density) in a not long ago war-ravaged land? 

It's a monumental task to protect any kind of wildlife in Korea. Making it anything like the U.S. would require everyone leaving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Back in the states, I am struck by how we take for granted the presence of large wildlife. Who hasn’t seen deer while living in the US or Canada? Our national, state, and provincial parks and forests are teeming with black bears, moose, wolves, and other animals that you don’t need binoculars and a field guide to identify.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not defending South Korea, but the peninsula is in a completely different situation. Yellowstone N.P. is nearly 1/10 the entire size of the ROK. Add up the other national parks (Yosemite, Rocky Mountain Glacier, etc) and you have a giant area with very little human settlement and virtually no hunting, farming or other encroachment.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Koreans are rightfully proud of the natural beauty of their mountains, made accessible through user-friendly, affordable national parks, yet seem to have done little to protect native fauna.&#8221;</p>
<p>South Korea has forty times the population density of the United States, with few pockets that have escaped human encroachment (animal habitats need wider areas than Korea&#8217;s national parks). The war and starvation must have also dealt a major blow to wildlife, and they never bounced back. </p>
<p>Much better management is necessary, but how many deer, black bears, moose, wolves, and other animals would you see if the US had 4.8 billion people (same area but with ROK&#8217;s population density) in a not long ago war-ravaged land? </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a monumental task to protect any kind of wildlife in Korea. Making it anything like the U.S. would require everyone leaving.</p>
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		<title>By: Railwaycharm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137320</link>
		<dc:creator>Railwaycharm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 01:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137320</guid>
		<description>#28. “I’m not really interested in continuing that particular discussion with people who won’t do their homework or check their sources.” 

I assume that you are directing this at me. I have done my homework on this and in-fact, have studied the subject extensively. For all of the arguments that have been stated in the Wikipedia sources, there are counter arguments that leave far too many unanswered/ unexplained phenomena. The fact of the matter is scientists with the green agenda are Imagineering results and answers that suit their purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#28. “I’m not really interested in continuing that particular discussion with people who won’t do their homework or check their sources.” </p>
<p>I assume that you are directing this at me. I have done my homework on this and in-fact, have studied the subject extensively. For all of the arguments that have been stated in the Wikipedia sources, there are counter arguments that leave far too many unanswered/ unexplained phenomena. The fact of the matter is scientists with the green agenda are Imagineering results and answers that suit their purposes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137303</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137303</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;On a more practical note, that is what Korea needs to do: focus upon what is a part of its cultural heritage (I do not mean internet, game or cellphone content either!) and aggressively develop ways to preserve and safe keep them. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Elgin, I like how your post brings attention to preserving Korea's &lt;b&gt;natural&lt;/b&gt; heritage.  Back in the states, I am struck by how we take for granted the presence of large wildlife.  Who hasn't seen deer while living in the US or Canada? Our national, state, and provincial parks and forests are teeming with black bears, moose, wolves, and other animals that you don't need binoculars and a field guide to identify.  Koreans are rightfully proud of the natural beauty of their mountains, made accessible through user-friendly, affordable national parks, yet seem to have done little to protect native fauna.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>On a more practical note, that is what Korea needs to do: focus upon what is a part of its cultural heritage (I do not mean internet, game or cellphone content either!) and aggressively develop ways to preserve and safe keep them. </p></blockquote>
<p>Elgin, I like how your post brings attention to preserving Korea&#8217;s <b>natural</b> heritage.  Back in the states, I am struck by how we take for granted the presence of large wildlife.  Who hasn&#8217;t seen deer while living in the US or Canada? Our national, state, and provincial parks and forests are teeming with black bears, moose, wolves, and other animals that you don&#8217;t need binoculars and a field guide to identify.  Koreans are rightfully proud of the natural beauty of their mountains, made accessible through user-friendly, affordable national parks, yet seem to have done little to protect native fauna.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad Monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137294</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad Monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137294</guid>
		<description>I believe Mr. Elgin's main point is that much of the natural legacy that nurtured traditional Korean culture, (which some of us expats have a deep appreciation of)- and specifically pine trees and all they represent- has been seriously degraded, and some of it is in danger of irreparable loss due to a variety of factors, among which are rampant industrial development, pollution, overfishing (which does not impinge directly on specifically Pine Trees of course!), the spread of car culture, and yes, global warming... not to mention good old fashioned greed, neglect, and corruption. We could, and should, argue the details, but anybody  who has spent any time in Korea who would dispute that basic scenario is a blind ignoramus not worthy of engaging in serious debate. The question is, in the case of Korea, can anything be done, what can be done, what should be done? And is there a constituency in Korea that cares about these things... is there any 'leadership' likely to be shown... or, are we in for more boondoggles like Saemanggeum (a crime against nature IMHO), because the people who think they are patriots only think of progress in terms of endlessly pouring more and more concrete?
Apparently some posters either feel these issues not worthy of concern, or things nothing can be done about anyway, so why bother? I don't feel that way, I don't think that Mr. Elgin or Maddlew feel that way... I'm hoping many Koreans don't feel that way. 
The one (and only) thing I heartily agree with Railwaycharm about is that yes, ethanol as some kind of 'environmentally friendly' energy strategy is a monstrous and destructive scam... but it's one that has been pushed by politicians and agribusiness people from corn-growing regions, not by climate scientists, and to throw that into this discussion is a red herring... except that it illustrates how, more than ever, it is necessary to be well informed on the scientific background of these choices and realities, so before you dismiss that Wikipedia article as 'more hot air' I suggest you actually read it, check the sources, and see just how many American and international scientific bodies- not political think tanks, lobbyist groups, or industry associations, but scientific bodies- are on board on the issue of human contribution to climate change. But to tell the truth, I'm not really interested in continuing that particular discussion with people who won't do their homework or check their sources. Don't ask me why, but I do care about the pines and the remaining patches of mixed hardwood forests, the birds and wetlands and riverbanks, the fish and the crustaceans and the seaweeds that all formed the material and spiritual underpinning of traditional Korean culture. Not just Korea... I actually have far more experience in Japan, the US Pacific Northwest, the northern Appalachians, California, and British Columbia. But I fell in love with Korea long ago... before the computer games, cell phones, internet, or Hallyu dramas, before the Seoul subways... and it hurts my heart that THAT Korea has apparently so few defenders among its political elite, and among a resident expat community who should know better but can't be bothered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Mr. Elgin&#8217;s main point is that much of the natural legacy that nurtured traditional Korean culture, (which some of us expats have a deep appreciation of)- and specifically pine trees and all they represent- has been seriously degraded, and some of it is in danger of irreparable loss due to a variety of factors, among which are rampant industrial development, pollution, overfishing (which does not impinge directly on specifically Pine Trees of course!), the spread of car culture, and yes, global warming&#8230; not to mention good old fashioned greed, neglect, and corruption. We could, and should, argue the details, but anybody  who has spent any time in Korea who would dispute that basic scenario is a blind ignoramus not worthy of engaging in serious debate. The question is, in the case of Korea, can anything be done, what can be done, what should be done? And is there a constituency in Korea that cares about these things&#8230; is there any &#8216;leadership&#8217; likely to be shown&#8230; or, are we in for more boondoggles like Saemanggeum (a crime against nature IMHO), because the people who think they are patriots only think of progress in terms of endlessly pouring more and more concrete?<br />
Apparently some posters either feel these issues not worthy of concern, or things nothing can be done about anyway, so why bother? I don&#8217;t feel that way, I don&#8217;t think that Mr. Elgin or Maddlew feel that way&#8230; I&#8217;m hoping many Koreans don&#8217;t feel that way.<br />
The one (and only) thing I heartily agree with Railwaycharm about is that yes, ethanol as some kind of &#8216;environmentally friendly&#8217; energy strategy is a monstrous and destructive scam&#8230; but it&#8217;s one that has been pushed by politicians and agribusiness people from corn-growing regions, not by climate scientists, and to throw that into this discussion is a red herring&#8230; except that it illustrates how, more than ever, it is necessary to be well informed on the scientific background of these choices and realities, so before you dismiss that Wikipedia article as &#8216;more hot air&#8217; I suggest you actually read it, check the sources, and see just how many American and international scientific bodies- not political think tanks, lobbyist groups, or industry associations, but scientific bodies- are on board on the issue of human contribution to climate change. But to tell the truth, I&#8217;m not really interested in continuing that particular discussion with people who won&#8217;t do their homework or check their sources. Don&#8217;t ask me why, but I do care about the pines and the remaining patches of mixed hardwood forests, the birds and wetlands and riverbanks, the fish and the crustaceans and the seaweeds that all formed the material and spiritual underpinning of traditional Korean culture. Not just Korea&#8230; I actually have far more experience in Japan, the US Pacific Northwest, the northern Appalachians, California, and British Columbia. But I fell in love with Korea long ago&#8230; before the computer games, cell phones, internet, or Hallyu dramas, before the Seoul subways&#8230; and it hurts my heart that THAT Korea has apparently so few defenders among its political elite, and among a resident expat community who should know better but can&#8217;t be bothered.</p>
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		<title>By: arthjm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137227</link>
		<dc:creator>arthjm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/23/korean-pines-baseball-bats-warm-bugs-and-resource-management/#comment-137227</guid>
		<description>#24: Aye, when 600 years you reach, look (half) as good, you will not...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#24: Aye, when 600 years you reach, look (half) as good, you will not&#8230;</p>
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