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	<title>Comments on: The Gates of Seoul</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Frog in a Well - The Korea History Group Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-135201</link>
		<dc:creator>Frog in a Well - The Korea History Group Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-135201</guid>
		<description>[...] mourning quickly set in. A posting over at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole gives us a closer look at the Gates of Seoul. Also at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole are two interesting contributions by Robert Neff, including an [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mourning quickly set in. A posting over at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole gives us a closer look at the Gates of Seoul. Also at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole are two interesting contributions by Robert Neff, including an [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jimong</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-135071</link>
		<dc:creator>jimong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-135071</guid>
		<description>Great post sewing!many thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post sewing!many thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134830</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134830</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The area has certainly changed since Lowell visited it, no doubt due in part to the fact people aren’t cutting down all the trees for firewood anymore.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If only it were that, and not the dreadful construction all over the area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The area has certainly changed since Lowell visited it, no doubt due in part to the fact people aren’t cutting down all the trees for firewood anymore.</p></blockquote>
<p>If only it were that, and not the dreadful construction all over the area.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134750</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134750</guid>
		<description>Robert: Post away!  It's quite serendipitous that things have worked out this way.

Bulgasari: The "Korea Sanha" site has a page on Bukhansan &lt;a href="http://www.koreasanha.net/san/bughansan.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Under the 등산지도 section, they have a couple of uploaded maps&#8212;the outline of the wall is somewhat hard to trace, but it's there, at least in sections.   (How much what's shown on the maps actually matches up with what's there in reality is anyone's guess.)

&lt;a href="http://www.koreasanha.net/mount_course/map/bughan_3.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;This map&lt;/a&gt; only shows a wall in the northwest corner of the site of the old fortress (assuming I've got the location of the fortress correct).  It also shows the wall that runs north from around Hongjimun.  Judging from the romanization used, it looks to be at least about a decade old.

&lt;a href="http://www.koreasanha.net/mountmap/20040404221803_jpg_view.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;This map&lt;/a&gt; appears to be even older (종로구 is "Jongro-gu"; also, some of the fonts are no longer fashionable), and extends south to show Bugaksan, and a section of the Seoul city wall.  It also marks Jahamun (Changuimun) and Hongjimun, and shows more of the Bukhansanseong wall: the northwest part, and also a southeastern section.

I don't know much about Bukhansanseong, including whether more of the wall has been restored since these maps were drawn up, or if what's shown on these maps is even accurate.

The road atlas I have at home that was published about 5 years ago shows the entire wall as if it were intact, on the Seoul detail map; but I don't know if this is accurate, either.

As an aside, after a century and a quarter of a million different romanization schemes, it's notable that the spellings used in Lowell's &lt;i&gt;Atlantic Monthly&lt;/i&gt; article are simple and consistent: Söul, Inchön, Kim Yöng Sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert: Post away!  It&#8217;s quite serendipitous that things have worked out this way.</p>
<p>Bulgasari: The &#8220;Korea Sanha&#8221; site has a page on Bukhansan <a href="http://www.koreasanha.net/san/bughansan.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Under the 등산지도 section, they have a couple of uploaded maps&mdash;the outline of the wall is somewhat hard to trace, but it&#8217;s there, at least in sections.   (How much what&#8217;s shown on the maps actually matches up with what&#8217;s there in reality is anyone&#8217;s guess.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.koreasanha.net/mount_course/map/bughan_3.jpg" rel="nofollow">This map</a> only shows a wall in the northwest corner of the site of the old fortress (assuming I&#8217;ve got the location of the fortress correct).  It also shows the wall that runs north from around Hongjimun.  Judging from the romanization used, it looks to be at least about a decade old.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.koreasanha.net/mountmap/20040404221803_jpg_view.htm" rel="nofollow">This map</a> appears to be even older (종로구 is &#8220;Jongro-gu&#8221;; also, some of the fonts are no longer fashionable), and extends south to show Bugaksan, and a section of the Seoul city wall.  It also marks Jahamun (Changuimun) and Hongjimun, and shows more of the Bukhansanseong wall: the northwest part, and also a southeastern section.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know much about Bukhansanseong, including whether more of the wall has been restored since these maps were drawn up, or if what&#8217;s shown on these maps is even accurate.</p>
<p>The road atlas I have at home that was published about 5 years ago shows the entire wall as if it were intact, on the Seoul detail map; but I don&#8217;t know if this is accurate, either.</p>
<p>As an aside, after a century and a quarter of a million different romanization schemes, it&#8217;s notable that the spellings used in Lowell&#8217;s <i>Atlantic Monthly</i> article are simple and consistent: Söul, Inchön, Kim Yöng Sin.</p>
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		<title>By: bulgasari</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134701</link>
		<dc:creator>bulgasari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134701</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Sewing!

Thanks for solving the mystery of the gate, Robert. The area has certainly changed since Lowell visited it, no doubt due in part to the fact people aren't cutting down all the trees for firewood anymore.  Also, it seems to have been winter when he took it (Lowell's book was published in 1886, but he visited Korea from December 1883 to some point in 1884, leaving by the time of the Kapshin Coup - his article about which &lt;a href="http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=ABK2934-0058-87" rel="nofollow"&gt;in the Atlantic Monthly&lt;/a&gt; was obviously written in Japan).

I'm curious as to how much of the Bukhansanseong has been restored, and if there are any maps showing where its walls lie.  Speaking of which, I found &lt;a href="http://imagesearch.naver.com/search.naver?where=idetail&#38;rev=4&#38;query=%BA%CF%C7%D1%BB%EA%BC%BA&#38;from=image&#38;ac=-1&#38;sort=0&#38;res_fr=0&#38;res_to=0&#38;merge=0&#38;start=306&#38;a=pho_l&#38;f=tab&#38;r=6&#38;u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.naver.com%2Fkybin21%3FRedirect%3DLog%26logNo%3D130006922934" rel="nofollow"&gt;this collection&lt;/a&gt; of photos of Bukhansan, taken by a German named &lt;a href="http://www.skynews.co.kr/article_view.asp?mcd=159&#38;ccd=6&#38;scd=2&#38;ano=162" rel="nofollow"&gt;Herman Sander&lt;/a&gt; in 1906-7.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Sewing!</p>
<p>Thanks for solving the mystery of the gate, Robert. The area has certainly changed since Lowell visited it, no doubt due in part to the fact people aren&#8217;t cutting down all the trees for firewood anymore.  Also, it seems to have been winter when he took it (Lowell&#8217;s book was published in 1886, but he visited Korea from December 1883 to some point in 1884, leaving by the time of the Kapshin Coup - his article about which <a href="http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/sgml/moa-idx?notisid=ABK2934-0058-87" rel="nofollow">in the Atlantic Monthly</a> was obviously written in Japan).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious as to how much of the Bukhansanseong has been restored, and if there are any maps showing where its walls lie.  Speaking of which, I found <a href="http://imagesearch.naver.com/search.naver?where=idetail&amp;rev=4&amp;query=%BA%CF%C7%D1%BB%EA%BC%BA&amp;from=image&amp;ac=-1&amp;sort=0&amp;res_fr=0&amp;res_to=0&amp;merge=0&amp;start=306&amp;a=pho_l&amp;f=tab&amp;r=6&amp;u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.naver.com%2Fkybin21%3FRedirect%3DLog%26logNo%3D130006922934" rel="nofollow">this collection</a> of photos of Bukhansan, taken by a German named <a href="http://www.skynews.co.kr/article_view.asp?mcd=159&amp;ccd=6&amp;scd=2&amp;ano=162" rel="nofollow">Herman Sander</a> in 1906-7.</p>
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		<title>By: mjw</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134677</link>
		<dc:creator>mjw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134677</guid>
		<description>fantastic info! and well put together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fantastic info! and well put together.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134658</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134658</guid>
		<description>Spewer, Sewing: the gate near Sangmyung U --- and the gate in Lowell's 1886 photo --- is the Hongjimun Gate.

http://blog.naver.com/random_house/40042650375
http://blog.naver.com/tamama2006/20022444003

Nice neighborhood, actually --- Segeomjeong and Seokparang are right there, too.

The gate was built in 1715, but destroyed in 1921. What you see today in a 1977 restoration.

I have photos of it on my home computer, if you'd like me to post 'em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spewer, Sewing: the gate near Sangmyung U &#8212; and the gate in Lowell&#8217;s 1886 photo &#8212; is the Hongjimun Gate.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.naver.com/random_house/40042650375" rel="nofollow">http://blog.naver.com/random_house/40042650375</a><br />
<a href="http://blog.naver.com/tamama2006/20022444003" rel="nofollow">http://blog.naver.com/tamama2006/20022444003</a></p>
<p>Nice neighborhood, actually &#8212; Segeomjeong and Seokparang are right there, too.</p>
<p>The gate was built in 1715, but destroyed in 1921. What you see today in a 1977 restoration.</p>
<p>I have photos of it on my home computer, if you&#8217;d like me to post &#8216;em.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; South Korea: The Gates of Seoul</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134655</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; South Korea: The Gates of Seoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134655</guid>
		<description>[...] from Marmot&#39;s Hole introduces to the readers brief historical background of the Gates around Seoul city.   Share [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from Marmot&#39;s Hole introduces to the readers brief historical background of the Gates around Seoul city.   Share [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134649</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134649</guid>
		<description>Sewing:

Could be, though it's hard to be certain, given the dramatic , as seechanges in the surroundings.  Moreover, from the road, the section of the wall supported by arches over the streamn in the photo, aren't visible.   I'll make a point of stopping tomorrow and going down to look and take some snaps.  There's also an interesting looking small temple on the other side of the stream another half a klick to the west - the direction from which the picture to which you linked was taken.  It has a very large whitewashed bas relief buddha w/ inlaid gold highlights under a separate pavilion looking over the stream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sewing:</p>
<p>Could be, though it&#8217;s hard to be certain, given the dramatic , as seechanges in the surroundings.  Moreover, from the road, the section of the wall supported by arches over the streamn in the photo, aren&#8217;t visible.   I&#8217;ll make a point of stopping tomorrow and going down to look and take some snaps.  There&#8217;s also an interesting looking small temple on the other side of the stream another half a klick to the west - the direction from which the picture to which you linked was taken.  It has a very large whitewashed bas relief buddha w/ inlaid gold highlights under a separate pavilion looking over the stream.</p>
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		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134636</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/13/the-gates-of-seoul/#comment-134636</guid>
		<description>Sperwer:

I'm not familiar with the gate you're referring to, but judging by Sangmyeongdae's location, the gate's about half a mile or a mile north of the city wall proper (the nearest city gate being Changuimun northwest of the Blue House), along what appears to have been a spur of the city wall, running north along the west flank of Bukhansan.

But I wonder if it's the same gate that Bulgasari was asking about a few days ago, &lt;a href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/12/suspect-admits-to-sungnyemun-arson-yonhap/#comment-134454" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;?  &lt;a href="http://bp2.blogger.com/_lxap4y0S1as/R7HDdGJD9TI/AAAAAAAABj8/2pQS6zR2iK4/s1600-h/1883+lowell+north+gate+of+seoul.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;This picture&lt;/a&gt; of the mystery gate was taken by Percival Lowell in 1883 or 1884 and labelled as the "North gate" of Seoul&#8212;but it doesn't look like Changuimun, Sukjeongmun, or Hyehwamun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sperwer:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not familiar with the gate you&#8217;re referring to, but judging by Sangmyeongdae&#8217;s location, the gate&#8217;s about half a mile or a mile north of the city wall proper (the nearest city gate being Changuimun northwest of the Blue House), along what appears to have been a spur of the city wall, running north along the west flank of Bukhansan.</p>
<p>But I wonder if it&#8217;s the same gate that Bulgasari was asking about a few days ago, <a href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/02/12/suspect-admits-to-sungnyemun-arson-yonhap/#comment-134454" rel="nofollow">here</a>?  <a href="http://bp2.blogger.com/_lxap4y0S1as/R7HDdGJD9TI/AAAAAAAABj8/2pQS6zR2iK4/s1600-h/1883+lowell+north+gate+of+seoul.jpg" rel="nofollow">This picture</a> of the mystery gate was taken by Percival Lowell in 1883 or 1884 and labelled as the &#8220;North gate&#8221; of Seoul&mdash;but it doesn&#8217;t look like Changuimun, Sukjeongmun, or Hyehwamun.</p>
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