One of the popular dramas in Korea is the drama “New Heart” which broadcasts every Wednesday and Thursday night on MBC. For last week’s episodes, the producers decided to add a non-Korean element. Specifically, a former British prime minister Hamilton (played by Lee Cham), who is also fluent in Korean( a former UK PM who’s fluent in Korean, now that’s something you don’t see everyday) visits a Korean golf course and collapses after teeing off. He’s then medevaced to Kwanghee University Hospital(CAU Hospital in Huksuk-dong).
Of course after he arrives at the hospital, his aides go into the “We cannot trust you” mode and during a pre-surgery briefing(YouTube video below starting from 1:28) Hamilton’s aides state their intentions to have the surgery in the UK and request that he be prepped for transfer to the UK, in which the hospital chief refuses, citing the detrimental effects of a heart patient flying at a high altitude. They then state their intentions to fly in a heart surgeon from the UK and request the hospital to have an operating room and support staff ready. The hospital chief responds by saying in English “We can not accept it” and gives a speech on how his hospital is internationally recognized and that “it is not inferior compared to hospitals in your country, England.” The President and the Minister of Health calls the hospital chief and asks him to reconsider his position but he refuses. Of course the chief is more concerned for the publicity his hospital will receive for operating on a former British PM. There’s also a scene where one of the doctors asks the hospital chief on what to tell the reporters who are asking about his refusal to lend them a operating room. The chief says “Well tell them they don’t trust us. Patriotism and pride in one’s country does have appeal.” The British side finally relents after a certain hospital in Cleveland recommends the hospital’s chief heart surgeon, Prof. Choi(played by Cho Jae-hyun) for the surgery.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uahNPFUeis[/youtube]
Choi is having his own personal problems and is currently on leave, a fact that the hospital does not share with Hamilton and his aides. At first Hamilton gets irritated and asks why Choi isn’t showing up and wonders out aloud if the hospital is saying that they can operate when they actually can’t. Hamilton eventually finds out that Choi is on leave, gets angry that the hospital has deceived him, and decides to go back to the UK. On the way however, he has a heart attack, comes back to the hospital and to make a long story short has his heart operated on by Choi and everything ends happily ever after.
With that aside, personally, I think the highlight of this drama is Kim Min-jeong, who plays a first-year resident.
88 Comments
This is really nonsense though. Surgeons from all over the world come to Korea just to study the successful organ transplant techniques that have been developed here in Korea.
I’m guessing the PD does not know this fact.
Well, I seriously doubt the story would have played out like that. For one, the Korean doctors and the Brits would not have acted so unprofessionally. There’s a certain protocol that must be followed when handling such a high status patient.
PS. I’ve had surgery in Korea and my doctor was excellent, far exceeded my expectations. Then again, he’s considered the top surgeon in Korea for that particular procedure. Still, it shows there are excellent surgeons in Korea.
The premise is flawed, anyway. Korean hospitals are damn well inferior to hospitals in my country, the United States, and I would presume the UK as well. The level of cleanliness is substantially lower, as is the level of care — in this regard, I mean not the technical skill of surgeons, but the hospital staff’s attitude and attention to the patients. In particular, diagnostic skills of Korean primary physicians are generally lacking.
Inferior doesn’t mean intolerable, and I would probably have major surgery here in Korea. But let’s not kid ourselves — the experience would be much better in the US. And, as a lawyer, I have some discomfort about the lack of discipline from the medical-malpractice side of things. Korean doctors are still basically immune from malpractice claims.
We cannot accept it!
I can speak English!
seems to me that they’re trying to make foreigners look evil by making them look snobby or something. who knows with these people
“But let’s not kid ourselves — the experience would be much better in the US.”
Well, maybe for people with very deep pockets.
You really need to have a look at the documentary, ‘Sicko’.
“New Heart” must be the Korean equivalent to “Fear Factor”; TV appeals to the lowest common denominator of every society.
#6: Great idea: Learn all about an issue through the distorted lens of a Michael Moore agitprop flick.
I don’t think medical services outside of Seoul are anywhere near the level of development of the rest of the country, but you get what you pay for.
My aunt is a family doctor in Canada, and when they visited Korea two years ago, they spent nearly a week trying to get proper treatment for my cousin’s asthma. Even at the larger medical centers in Seoul, she was appalled at their approach to medicine.
My wife’s experiences here have left her alive, but I wouldn’t want to receive major medical care in Korea, at least not out in the boondocks where we live.
Plenty of Korean-born doctors are doing fine work here in the USA.
mins… you do realize that the chief of medicine is the ‘evil’ character of the show, and by him saying ‘we can use the nationalism’, the show is actually criticizing on how public figures manipulate the public by using nationalism. Because “Hamilton” or any of his aids are not cast in any negative light due to the fact that they are at odds with the “evil” side (chief of medicine, department head of internal medicine, etc.) and actually side with the “good” side (Dr. Choi).
Also, the show criticizes how hospitals like “Gwanghi” siphon up all the funds and prevent other hospitals from getting better equipments and better services. It also criticizes the system of “Sunbae/Hoobae” and the group mentality of “us vs. them”.
Once again, shallow research turns into a full blown misunderstanding…
“Once again, shallow research turns into a full blown misunderstanding…”
Or more likely, deliberate distortions to pander to the already frazzled and disenfranchised “waygooks” who feel under a siege. It doesn’t help that bringing up a scene from a stupid TV show and taking it all out of context to show how Koreans are anti foreigners, will only contribute more to already hard feelings. As if there isn’t enough ammos already for that, without his help manufacturing one. I suggest some need to take the same advice that they routinely give out to Koreans who get angry at less than appealing portrayals of Koreans on American TV - relax, stop being so nationalistic - it’s just a TV show.
(Plenty of Korean-born doctors are doing fine work here in Korea, too.)
But it’s important to distinguish important environmental differences between the Korean medical market and the US medical market.
Ethnic Korean doctors in the US practice in an environment which challenges different skills from those they have to use in Korea. In America, it’s hard to bribe one’s way into a position. In America, the patients are often very well-informed about medical and health issues, and question their doctors sometimes quite aggressively. In America, other (junior) colleagues and staff engage in debate with their seniors. And all of it takes place in an environment where everyone knows they may one day have to justify their choices to an institution outside the hospital.
shallow research, bum? distortions, cm?
I only summarized two particular episodes of the drama, as it is. Yeah maybe I should have mentioned the fact that the chief of medicine is “evil”, but on the other hand,….
As you can see the only personal opinion I put into the post is the presence of nationalism in Korean dramas and there is a bit of that by portraying Hamilton’s aides as “snobbish”. And may I add that the one of the reasons Hamilton “sides” with Choi is because a certain Cleveland Clinic tells them to go with him.
Yes you’re right, the drama also criticizes the current medical system, and IMO it does a good job of doing that. But, while they are on a roll, do the producers have to resort to showing “snobbish” foreigners saying “We do not trust you”?
I like television and follow the industry generally, and haven’t noticed much in the way of negative portrayals of Koreans — except for that one guy on Lost, whose one-note Angry Asian Man character seems to have become a lot more sympathetic. Unless you’re talking about the portrayal of Ferengi on Star Trek or something. That one is dead on.
First of all, it was Dr. Ha (who was Dr. Choi’s student AT Cleveland clinic when Choi was over there as part of an exchange program) and Dr. Choi’s friend AT Cleveland Clinic who recommended Dr. Choi, not Cleveland Clinic.
Second, the aides were not portrayed as snobbish, and the primary character, Hamilton, was definitely not - he got angry as hell when he found out that the hospital had been screwing him, but I’m guessing that’s not because his character was ’snobbish’.
Third, majority of your post was about how the show promoted nationalism by having the chief of medicine touting ‘nationalism works well in this country’. Definite misinformation there.
What differences are there between your post and Korean reporter’s article blasting Stephen Colbert for “making fun of” Rain? Both of you didn’t do enough research and made false conclusions.
Whoa, Ferengis are supposed to be Asians?
The producers should have read the Seoul Selection, there are plenty of fine and thoughtful articles on medical tourism and the quality of Korean doctors to be had there.
bum, what’s your problem?
I didn’t base nationalism on that quote alone from the chief of medicine nor did I say I was basing it on that.
As I said I showed the episodes as it is.
#8,
Great idea, continue ignoring an issue just because you don’t like the messenger.
I stepped on broken glass at a beach once at a polluted beach in Daejon, and had to be rushed to emergency to have the cut on the bottom of my foot sewed up. It was a nasty inch-deep wound, and I needed at least 6 stitches. The hospital looked pretty shady, so I asked the doctor many times, “Please use lots of anaesthetics. No pain! Many many many, I want to sleep!” He assured me that he understood, and then I lied down, only to feel every single stich being wound, every prick of the needle! It was by far the most painful experience I’ve ever had in a hospital, it seems all the qualified doctors are in Seoul.
Kim Min-jeong? Kim Min-jeong?
http://blog.naver.com/wasinoz/7979371
I’m just offended to see Lee Cham playing the British ambassador. Like it wasn’t bad enough to see him as the US ambassador in “The Lobbyist.”
“I only summarized two particular episodes of the drama, as it is. Yeah maybe I should have mentioned the fact that the chief of medicine is “evil”, but
on the other hand, so what?”
So what? What’s different about that and American defense of Michael Douglas character in “Falling Down”, as the crazy bad guy, so why are Koreans going ape shit over nothing? (Not that I care anything about that old movie, just to make my point). My point is, practice what you preach.
mins, stop trying to pigeonhole me to wjk and pawi’s traditional positions. I don’t have a problem. When I notice something that is off, I comment on it.
“A dose of nationalism and “foreigners don’t trust our skills” woven into a popular medical drama with current ratings of 30%. I’m not too sure if nationalism and medicine go together, but since dramas here like dramas everywhere have to appeal to the audience, I guess the producers have to beat the nationalism drum once in a while.”
So where the hell did you get the “a dose of nationalism”, then? Since you apparently did enough research, you should know that in Korean drama, whatever the ‘bad guys’ do is cast on a negative light. (Kinda like Mr. Burns on the Simpsons minus the hilarity) So you couldn’t have gotten it from anything the chief of medicine or his cronies had said or did. Is it just based on the supposed ’snobbishness’?
“Ethnic Korean doctors in the US practice in an environment which challenges different skills from those they have to use in Korea.”
Hmm, well. My surgeon used a technique he developed that greatly reduces bleeding, swelling, and recovery time from surgery.
“. In America, the patients are often very well-informed about medical and health issues, and question their doctors sometimes quite aggressively.”
The information I had gotten from American websites before deciding to get the surgery done was useless to me because he designed the procedure in order to prevent many of the possible complications that the patients discussed on those sites.
Good for you.
That’s it, be dismissive when faced with a fact that brings into question your argument.
Well, your single example is stupid. So you found a really exceptional doctor here in Korea (did you miss the part where I exclude “technical skill of the surgeons” from my criticism?). I guess the experiences of all the rest of us must be wrong, then.
#23.
cm, you said “practice what you preach.”, then may I ask why you are misquoting me?
#24.
I’m not trying to “pidgeonhole” you. All I ask is for you to look at the bigger picture. Now the drama has foreigners saying that they cannot trust a Korean hospital and asking the hospital to transfer the former PM to UK and then asking it to have facilities and personnel ready so that one of their own can operate. And keep in mind that the aides probably don’t know that the chief is “evil”. Also keep in mind that some Koreans don’t like it if a foreigner comes up to them and tells them they cannot trust their abilities or the abilities of their countrymen. Now I don’t know what the intentions of the producers were when they produced those particular episodes, but one can get the opinion that they were trying to whip up a bit of nationalistic feelings.
i think mins should be posting in occidentalism. you consistently post items that can be viewed negatively towards korea. what gives? i’m not defending korea because korea has its worts, but post after post, you either insert comments that are negative or post articles that can be viewed negatively towards korea.
#30.
And your point is?
Nice try. Reread your own post. When you write about a doctor’s skills, it’s a given that the reader will take it to include the surgeon’s technical skills unless its explicitly stated otherwise. If that’s not what you meant, then you failed as a writer. You also excluded the “skill to fart William Tell Overture”. If I had thought you would have meant that skill, then the failure would have been mine.
PS. A single example is no more stupid than a blanket statement.
“And keep in mind that the aides probably don’t know that the chief is “evil”.”
It’s the fact that the chief is the evil character that the audience will recognize his actions as bad - manipulating nationalism, pointlessly endangering patients for ‘hospital pride’ (which, btw, is like the fifth time the chief and his cronies have done something like that in the show), etc. That’s how Korean writers write dramas. (ugh, deja vu to informal quotation style of Korean newspapers)
This is like a person who never saw an episode of the Simpsons watching a clip of Mr. Burns ranting about how laborers are given too much rights, then going on and writing a post about how Americans crap on the worker’s right all the time.
“Now I don’t know what the intentions of the producers were when they produced those particular episodes,”
Ok… (then how can you make conclusions about producer’s intentions?)
“but one can conclude that they were trying to whip up a bit of nationalism.”
Well… the good news is, that was one of the finest example of doubletalk.
There’s a scene in a past show called “Kim Sam Soon” where an internist claimed that South Korea was world’s best when it came to gastric cancer, and that even famous doctors come to Korea to get treatment. Something like that can be called ‘whipping up’ nationalism. But this? I don’t think so.
my point is go post in occidentalism where you will have a larger following.
i’m just curious. what is your objective? to highlight all the negatives about korea so you can be the conductor to the choir?
your posts aren’t so bad but everytime i read them, you sound like one of those annoying kids at school who finds something bad about the class loser and tells the cool kids so you can be part of the cool group.
bum, you’re entitled to your opinion. But before we close this debate please read my comment. I didn’t say “conclude” I said “one can get the opinion.”
@#30
It’s not so much as having so many negative things to say about Korea (blogs can’t all be filled with happy fluffy stories), but having tendency to over-analyze or incorrectly analyze due to shallow research. Note here that he is not aware of the fact that ‘evil’ characters always and constantly do ‘bad’ things in Korean drama. Note also few weeks or months ago when he claimed that Korean media were trying to paint LMB as pandering to Bush - his basis was that Bush’s quote was in informal speech. Here, he was not aware of the fact that newspapers almost always turn quotes into informal format.
Perhaps another shortcoming is that he fails to admit his mistakes even when evidences are bluntly staring at him, such as the case of the newspapers… I and several others produced numerous examples of quotes turning into informal versions, but he simply dismissed it and even accused me of ‘not being able to accept others’ opinions.’
I’m going to venture a guess that soon he’ll say something like ‘you can have your opinion and I can have mine, but I’m still right’. He’ll also try to shut the discourse down.
Lol! Awesome.
have any of you getting so bent here taken at look at what you’re arguing about? over a ‘kin, goddamned sorry TV drama?
once again, when i’m bored, sad, suicidal, or lonely;
when i need to witness more petulance than can be found in a room full of rich teenagers who’ve had their range rovers taken from them for a week;
when i need a good laugh;
or when i’m feeling a lack of confidence because of my own insecurities…
i know i can come to the Hole, read some posts, their resulting threads and comments, and come away feeling more self-esteem, happiness, and full of good humour for the rest of the day.
classic stuff.
“Also keep in mind that some Koreans don’t like it if a foreigner comes up to them and tells them they cannot trust their abilities or the abilities of their countrymen.”
Well, this little sentence popped up while I wasn’t looking. You’re right. Producers are trying to whip up nationalism by making Hamilton’s aides say they’d prefer one Korean doctor (Dr. Choi) over another (Dr. Kim & Dr. Min). Oh, wait…
#35.
I feel like a broken record, repeating my position over and over again. Yes I admit I am critical of some aspects of Korean society, happy?
Now I will post things that interest me and reflect how I feel about something. Is that so wrong? And I have no intention of being conductor of the choir or being part of the “cool kids”. If I wanted to do that I would be posting stuff that praises Korea and disses the expat. Remember there are 40 million S. Koreans compared to 1 million expats in this country. Plus I spend more time with Koreans than expats. Let’s just say I want to be independent and not be part of the larger mob.
Anyways, if you don’t like what I post fine. Don’t read it. There’s no rule that says that you should read and comment every post.
“have any of you getting so bent here taken at look at what you’re arguing about? over a ‘kin, goddamned sorry TV drama?”
Obviously mins is trying to post another ‘Ugh, Korean nationalism’ on the blog, and I’m arguing that this isn’t the case. I realize distant cynicism looked cool in the 90’s, but it’s eh… not so much these days.
Of course there is nationalism in the dramas. Korean make watching a movie a matter of nationalism. Koreans have grown up in a society that its us versus them. Koreans use nationalism to cover up a lot of problems in their society. In this TV show, it sounds as if they are using nationalism to suggest their medical care is on the same level of England. There may be many good doctors in Korea, but there are many terrible ones. To go to an emergency room in Korea is really a roll of the dice. We have often seen nationalism to cover up short comings in Korean society. When some prominent Koreans will speak up and try to improve Korea instead of always playing the nationalism card, there may be some progress.
If we took an Uncle Tom (Uncle Kim) and had him posting here, his posts would be isofunctional to mins’ posts. We all know that. But, but…
Anyway, I’m glad that if anyone’s watching, bumfromkorea is. Thanks for the posts, guy!
I’m also inclined to be rather amused at the fact that anyone’s actually watching these dramas. Sure, I watched a few episodes of The Lobbyst, but that’s because it had action intrigue and was tauted as big budget.
Is New Heart any good? Not all Kdramas are dirt. Every now and then a few of them manage to be endearing from start to finish.
“In this TV show, it sounds as if they are using nationalism to suggest their medical care is on the same level of England. There may be many good doctors in Korea, but there are many terrible ones.”
Keep in mind that the show is set in what they claim is ‘the best of the best hospital in Korea’. The episode before this, a doctor/professor screwed up, froze up, and killed a patient during live-air surgery (then proceeded to blame an intern for the incident and mercilessly beat the crap out of him) and another refused treatment of a patient for the third time because he wanted to keep his success record high. I don’t think “Korean medical system is as good as British one!” is the message here. More like “We have got to fix this mess, people.”
“I realize distant cynicism looked cool in the 90’s, but it’s eh… not so much these days.”
yes, my distant cynicism was cool in the ’90s, but retro IS cool these days.
besides, it’s fun to watch everyone get so worked up. sure beats the hell out of working!
bum, as I said you’re entitled to your opinion and I respect your opinion. But please do not make fun of or diss other people’s opinions.
#22.
What’s wrong with Kim Min-jeong?
@abcdefg
:-/ Yeah, the lobbyist turned out to be a huge disappointment. I was hoping that Huh Joon Ho could somehow turn it around but…
I would say that it’s the best korean drama ever, but that’s because I’m a pre-med and I’m watching it at the moment ^^;. It’s good. Funny characters, serious discussion of how f*cked up Korean medical system is… nowhere as good as Scrubs, but I would make the comparison.
@mins
Lol… as Stephen Colbert once put it, “It’s like boxing a glacier. By the way, enjoy that metaphor, because your grandchildren will have no idea what you’re talking about.”
“sure beats the hell out of working! :)”
And also beats the hell out of finishing biochem lab report that needs to be turned in in about an hour. Three cheers for procrastination!
Well bum, you may say that you’re not pawi, but you have his style. Which reminds me….I have to “pidgeonhole” you the next time I see you. It wouldn’t be fair to pawi to “pidgeonhole” him and not you.
“i think mins should be posting in occidentalism.”
No, I think he should stick to water cooler rumor mongering like they do in National Enquirer.
And this is to kwon, if you haven’t seen the show nor don’t know what the script is talking about, just STFU. Mins is the last source you should rely on for accurate information.
“What’s wrong with Kim Min-jeong?
can’t speak for robert, but, to me, she looks kinda pig-faced from the side.
to each his or her own, though…
OK, but she’s not that bad. She’s a lot better than Shin Jeong-ah or Ok So-ri for that matter.
X-D when did “pawi” turn into pejoratives? Man… you guys are too mean to the dude.
Oh, mins, are you trying to say that I am pawi, or that I act like pawi?
why are you guys so critical of mins? is it because he’s a foreigner and seems to be provocatively critical of korea? or is it because he’s a KOREAN who doesn’t toe the nationalistic line?
mins, okay, you got me there about ok so-ri and shin jeong-ah, no doubts.
i have a thing for lee ji-ah (i think that’s her name) these days, myself…
@#55
Because (and only when, because it’s not apparent in every one of his postings) he does shallow research and over/mis analyzes things while refusing to admit to mistakes. The result is people like kwon who reads mins’ post, assumes it is correct, and assumes misinformation.
Not so much on a race thing. I’m barely aware of who’s Korean and who’s not on the Marmot.
#56.
Lee Ji-ah is hot.
Is it me or do we have a surplus of Korean Americans or Canadians for that matter going around defending “Korean honor”?
And to think that some Koreans I talk to consider kyopos as second class Koreans.
“is it because he’s a foreigner and seems to be provocatively critical of korea? ”
Please.
“or is it because he’s a KOREAN who doesn’t toe the nationalistic line?”
Poor research, poor facts, no evidence, he said this and she said that so that proves.. fill in the blank, mistranslations, taking things out of context and representing them as facts. Need I say more?
Robert routinely criticizes Korea when it’s justified, at least he backs them up. Do you see me criticizing him?
#55
bum, fair enough.
too bad you can’t convert the masses in north america and europe who swallow the propagandist, often nationalistic shit being shoveled in the mainstream western press these days, as well.
#56
ya think!
#60
chill out, bro.
from my point of view, there’s a lot of misinformation being both disseminated and swallowed by a lot of people here. and it’s funny as hell sometimes. this isn’t a mainstream web site of misinformation like, say, fox news is.
so what if robert, mins, you, me, or the virgin pope of unused broken condoms writes something with poor facts, poor translations, no evidence, whatever else you say?
since you are so uncritical of robert and think so (rightly) highly of him, then why don’t you trust him as he continues to allow mins to write here? don’t you think if mins were as bad as you claim, robert would’ve sacked him from the site long ago?
i think there’s way too much sensitivity here, man. and way too much judging of people. who’s to say that YOU are right in your research and translations and mins isn’t?
relax, dude. live up to that maple flag next to your name and have a toke, ease up…
Reading up on the argument here between mins and cm, bumfromkorea, it really made me think about something which has been on my mind for a while. Mins brings up this point as well too.
Contrary to popular belief that compared to Korean nationals, kyopos are more tolerant and can accept criticism of Korea, is the truth in fact just the opposite? In other words, are kyopos much more nationalistic than Korean nationals? Are kyopos much more sensitive to any negative commentary about Korea than real Koreans?
Although it would logically seem as though this is not the case since most kyopos are from a younger generation and were brought up in a society that is more open-minded, I often think about how totally untrue the assumption that the older generation of Koreans are much more anti-Japanese than younger generation is. It is clear that the younger generation of Koreans who were born after the 1950’s are carry way more anti-Japanese sentiment than those who actually lived through the colonization. As a matter of fact, it has been my experience that Koreans who were born in the 1970’s and afterwards carry much more grudge against Japan..and now even against China.
Ok seriously. Its Kim Jong Il’s birthday on the 16th. What’s everyone getting him?
My two cents: you get what you pay for. Korean medical care can be poor, but it can also be very decent. Some things are a worry, at the basic level: hygeine procedures mainly, such as using gloves and washing hands when using needles. Also training, as Brenden pointed out, there is little critical analysis throughout training, and alot of doctors came through during a time in Korea when money rather than ability got you over the line.
U.S medical care on the other hand can be excellent, if you’re rich. Alot of money goes into research and developing the very best technologies, procedures and instruments, but little to no effort goes into making things affordable for the average patient. I’ve been injured in both countries, a broken arm in Korea, torn knee ligaments in the U.S, and I know where I’d like to be should something like either of those things happen again. (Hint, not america.)
Just to get my knee looked at, and be given a pretty basic brace cost me almost $1000 US (that after being turned away at the front door of a hospital in a blizzard because i didn’t have my insurance papers). It was an experience that left a very bad taste in my mouth. To go through the whole process of having my arm looked at, x-rayed, splinted, put in a cast, and then have several weeks of therapy in the ROK cost about $500. Very happy with what they did. (Apart from the weird shock treatment therapy, which was only salvaged by the fact that I had hot nurses manipulating my arm).
At the end of the day, for most situations, if I had a choice I’d probably choose a european country or australia/NZ over either the US or Korea.
i for one don’t toe the nationalistic line. if korea deserves fair criticism, i will be the first to criticize them. trust me, i find korean nationalism a big problem. what some kyopos here are complaining about is your analytical skills, or lack thereof, to distort truth or trying to start a fire when there is no reason to, as in the this post.
“And to think that some Koreans I talk to consider kyopos as second class Koreans.”
obviously, they been judging kyopos based on you.
#64,
I’d send him a big steaming bag of fertilizer.
“Are kyopos much more sensitive to any negative commentary about Korea than real Koreans?”
Well, here’s the truth, you can either believe it or you can just believe what you want to believe in your own prejudice.
1) “Real” Koreans are have poor English so they probably won’t be able to participate or speak up here.
2) Just because mins or anybody else criticizes Korea, it doesn’t mean that it’s always a deserved criticism. Sometimes somebody has to correct course.
3) Kyopos are not fully accepted in Korea as “Koreans” usually (unless they become famous or something), nor are they fully accepted as “American” or “Canadian”. In other words, we’re perpetual in betweens, a very uncomfortable position. Obviously we want Koreans and Americans/Canadians to get along with each other, because we love both sides. And it pisses me off when somebody attempts to start another fire when we all have enough problems as it is.
4) Believe it or not, lot of us defend Americans (or whatever nationality) when we feel that they are being attacked unfairly by Koreans, it’s just that you probably don’t know about that side because you probably do not participate in Korean conversations with native Koreans. Conversely, we do the same thing in English boards when we feel that some aspect of things that are being said are incorrect or misinterpreted.
5) I’m a spoiled kyopo brat and a total idiot.
A very clear and well written logical explanation. Thank you, Cm.
I won’t be watching this dreck, because I don’t have any air sickness bags handy and prefer not to drive the porcelain bus in Korea.
Re the quality of Korean medical care, though, my experience has been generally excellent. As long as you carefully pick the doctors and facilities, you can get very high quality care. And you need not bother with the outrageously overpriced specialist clinics aimed at foreigner pcoketbooks. In fact, if you have the necessary language skills, or someone to help you, and do your homework, medical procedures here are a bargain. I had a very specialized, complicated and delicate procedure several years ago for ~ 10% of the US price, and that included 5 days of a private room (vs. an outpatient protcol in the US); in fact x-room and board, the actual surgery/anesethia cost less than 2.5% of the US cost - and that was paid by the Nstional Health insurance. The surgeon was US trained in the requisite specialty, spoke passable English and was willing to talk over my concerns.
The lesson learned was that one should also vet all the other important players, including in particular the anesthesiologist, and not make any assumptions on that score just because the principal physician checks out. I didn’t do that because I went in insisting on no anesthesia, but that turned out not to be practicable because of the delicacy and length of the procedure and the importance of making sure that I didn’t squirm around. Everything worked out - obviously - but the anesthesiologist did overdose me a bit and it took an alarmingly long time for me to wake up.
Severance Hospital is allegedly good enough to be ‘the hospital designate for the President of the United States of America’:
http://english.seoul.go.kr/tod.....2_5093.php
It’s no secret that US health care is overpriced, but that is an amazing difference. Medical tourism is becoming more popular in the US. Maybe a little foreign competition will bring down prices.
#71,
Yes, a few of my friends were treated at that hospital and they had nothing but praises for it.
The problem that exists in U.S. medical system is not at the point of the care providers (doctors, nurses, PAs, etc.). From personal experience, they are some of the most decent and caring people in the world. The concept of ‘going the extra mile’ is almost ingrained into the modern generation of healthcare providers, and it shows. Great skills, empathy, and the fact that they actually give a crap makes one hell of a medical care.
It’s not the doctors, nurses, PAs that are wrong with the system - it’s the cost. Even though the second half about how universal healthcare is so much better is bullshit, Michael Moore’s Sicko makes an excellent point in the first half (which seems to be the trend of all of his movies… 50% brilliance, 50% pure crap). Cost of insurance is ridiculous, and even at the county hospital (where I just came back from a volunteer shift) people are lined up at the financial counseling office just to figure out how the hell they’re supposed to pay for the gigantic medical bills.
I’ve been told that Korean medical system pretty much has the same problem, but a lot of doctors don’t really give a crap about you. Is that accurate?
Hey bum..
I really want to see “Sicko” but never got around to renting it. It seems to be a very informative documentary, but then again, because it is a M. Moore film, of course you will have so much controversy btw. the haters and supporters.
However, I am sure that you, as a future medical practioner, have a personal interest in the future state of the health care system in this country as it directly relates to you outside of merely being a participant. What are your thoughts on the matter? Personally, I sometimes wonder why it is that in this country, the word “common right” or “socialism” scares so many people as being the worst evil in the world next to the anti-christ?
I do believe that in a country as big and populous as the US, “shared” systems, which seem to work fine in places like Korea, Asia, Europe, or Canada where the costs are lower and a lower population exists, may not be feasible to implement. However, is it really fair to say that it is a black/white (will absolutely not work/will work) dilemma? A part of me wants to really believe that there is a gray area in the middle which could provide the best solution for America. Maybe I am just an idealistic liberal?
I have to deal with a lot of medical insurance companies as a result of my profession here in the United States. And my pops is a surgeon in Korea so I’ve seen/heard pros and cons of both countries.
IMHO, I think services in both countries severely lag behind other Western countries in their own little ways.
Viva La Cuba! Viva La Revolucion!!!~~~
I don’t think the status quo is a good thing for U.S. medical system, but I don’t think universal healthcare is the solution either. The two systems are the extreme ends - British citizens, for example, have been screaming for NHS reforms because of such institutions’ own shortcomings (surgery/procedure pileup, for example) A common horror story is that if you get a cavity, you won’t be able to see your dentist until you need a root canal or an extraction. I don’t know how exaggerated that is, but it sheds light into the problems of universal healthcare.
In other words, the two systems (U.S. & Univ. Health) need to learn from each other, because both already demonstrated what the problems of their own systems are.
The answer, as it always seems to be, is probably the ‘golden mean’. Not having taken any courses in healthcare administration, I don’t know the specifics ^^;.
Rent Sicko… even though I think the second half is crap, first half is nothing short of excellence.
I havent seen ‘Sicko’ but I can tell you I am against national health care. Can someone tell me why on earth access to health care is a RIGHT? I just dont get it. Actually dont tell me. I dont wanna hear your liberal BS.
If you’re sick and you die, tough shit. I know that may sound callous but why the hell should I pay for your treatment?
I smoke half a pack a day and drink like a fish. I know I’m due sometime, although yearly check ups have been nothing short of miracles.
However, I know what risks I’m taking when I engage in those activities and so should everyone else.
Although stats say the number’s a bit lower, it looks like from my daily observations that at least 90% are fat fucks here in the U.S. That translates into mucho dinero for treatment. There is absolutely no way the govt can cover all the costs.
^^; Um… “a bit lower” doesn’t quite remedy your hyperbole. Mississippi as a state, for example, has 30% obesity, and it’s one of the fattest states in the U.S.
I learned that information from an article that talked about a state legislature that wants to prohibit restaurants from serving fat people. Apparently it was meant as an empty bill with the actual purpose being to bring attention to obesity problems in the state. Lol… certainly got my attention.
Universal Healthcare doesn’t work, but neither does the current U.S. model. More coverage for the poor is needed for U.S., less nationalization is needed for Univeral Healthcare system. How about that?
But on the other hand, I’m a complete idiot, so if I were me I wouldn’t listen to any one of my opinions.
I was recently faced with a choice of surgery or alternative therapy here in Korea…..Samsung Hospital actually, touted as the “Rolls Royce” of hospitals in Korea. But after I found out about the weird nursing care system there…and other hospitals in Korea….where one is expected to bring alomg a family member of friend to be at your bedside to help with your nursing 24 hours a day!!!
And sleep in a cot beside your bed. While all the Korean patients in your ward have their family/friends coming and going day and night….
I decided that was a cultural experience I could do without (Koreans apparently expect to do this and kinda enjoy the experience I’m told) and decided against the surgery I was recommended.
When I said I was not in a position to bring a family member or friend I was told I could “hire a caregiver” to come and stay with me at my bedside. They said there was a 12:1 ratio of patients to nurses at Samsung.
And what about the sanitary conditions and risk of infection with all these “extras” hanging around in the ward?
If a friend/family member is partially responsible for administering treatment or medications, like inserting catheters, etc that of course would free the hospital from any malpractice litigation in the event somrthing goes wrong or there are infections.
So I think Korea still has a long long way to go before it can offer expats coming to live and work here the standard of medical care and aftercare they would expect and receive back home.
“So I think Korea still has a long long way to go before it can offer expats coming to live and work here the standard of medical care and aftercare they would expect and receive back home.”
Barney, for people who want it or need it, major hospitals in Korea offer private rooms with round-the-clock, full-service nursing care. It costs more, but still less than the same in the U.S.
#79 Bumfromkorea
“^^; Um… “a bit lower” doesn’t quite remedy your hyperbole. Mississippi as a state, for example, has 30% obesity, and it’s one of the fattest states in the U.S.”
Yea, I realize that my 90% is a “tad” high
but I suddenly remember this quote: “Lies, Damned lies, and Statistics”
I know what I see and what I hear. And what I see is different from what I hear.
Case in point, Mein Fuhrer Bush not too long ago classified McDonald’s as a manufacturing job to lower the unemployment rate.
Or another example… NY public school system made standardized tests a lot easier so “no child would be left behind”.
Believe me, I know when I see a fat fuck and there are plenty of them here in NYC and I’m sure the number is a lot higher down in the south where they fry everything…and I mean EVERYTHING.
I’m convinced what passes as “normal” here in the U.S. is probably what is considered morbidly obese in Ethiopia. And I think we’re so used to seeing each other heavier than we should be, we tend to see each other as skinny when we’re really not. And we see fat fucks as normal when they’re not.
“Bush not too long ago classified McDonald’s as a manufacturing job to lower the unemployment rate.”
Maybe it’s because the beef contains cement.
Perhaps I missed something in Econ 101, but what does the classification of a job have to do with the unemployment rate? Either you are working, or you are not. End of story.
But hey, some people will believe anything if it makes Bush look bad. These people suffer from Bush Derangement Syndrome, and there is no cure.
This show is mainly about elitism within Korea, and it has little to do with nationalism. One of the main issues when Hamilton came into the story was whether to hire Dr. Ha who works at the Cleveland Hospital(fictional). The “bad guys” and the majority of the hospital staff, all of whom are graduates of Kwanghee University, strongly oppose because Dr. Ha isn’t a graduate of Kwanghee University. The “good guy”, Dr. Choi, on the other hand, try to hire him to bring some “fresh blood” into this exlcusive group.
The Hamilton situation nicely exposes the problem with elitism - while Kwanghee University Hospital is the “best” within Korea, it is not necessarily the best in the world, and the British were giving a serious blow to the prevalent elitism in the hospital. Nationalism was a mere excuse the Chief of Medicine, a bad guy, used to keep Hamilton at the hospital. The real issue there was elitism, Chief’s staunch belief that Kwanghee University Hospital, with an exclusive staff of Kwanghee graduates, is the best that needs no non-Kwahnghee graduates, such as Dr. Ha, even if they are much more competitive than the Kwanghee graduates.
Wedge
Youre completely missing the issue. The issue is that Bush changed the standards to fit his own policy. The issue is not whether having a job at McDonalds is a job or not.
Tsk Tsk.
I once had to take a guy into a county 보건소 out in the middle of nowhere. We would have suspected clap, but I knew for certain we’d been too busy in the field for him to get any sort of trim for that to happen. Thought maybe an acute bladder infection…
So I needed to consult with a real doctor, and in a hurry.
First thing, they had him drop trou in front of half the county, then gave him an OB beer glass to use to give his urine specimen. He was dry, and couldn’t piss.
I had my back turned for a second, and the next thing I know, the Korean doc is digitally assaulting my patient’s bunghole wearing what looked suspiciously like MOPP gloves (no KY, either).
The guy started to flip out of course, not having been warned or given time to get “emotionally ready” for this sort of thing.
Meanwhile, the Korean doc has a glass slide in his other hand, trying to get something to leak out of my patient’s tool, as a result of this prostate “massage”. This he succeeded in, but not before nicking a major bleeder on my patient’s tool (5 delicate stitches I threw in later).
Withdrawing his finger with an audible *pop*, the Korean doctor went and set the slide using a candle, then examined the specimen under a reflector microscope.
“Your patient doesn’t seem to have anything I can see, no WBC’s at all, even; come back tomorrow and we’ll take a look again…”
‘Withdrawing his finger with an audible *pop*, the Korean doctor went and set the slide using a candle, then examined the specimen under a reflector microscope.’
exactly the reason your board is going down the drain….