Please, oh God, tell me this isn’t true:
The United States has recently offered to suspend its plan to cut its troops on the peninsula, South Korean military sources said yesterday.
During bilateral military talks last month, Washington conveyed its intention to maintain it presence of the current 28,500 troops, in a reversal of a 2004 plan to reduce the number to 25,000.
“The U.S. delegates asked the Korean government to cooperate in maintaining its number of troops at the current 28,500 during the Security Policy Initiative talks,” a source said on condition of anonymity.
Please let this be bullshit.
44 Comments
Although I am sure this offer is the result of America’s soft response to a desperate-seeming Don’t abandon us! plea from the GNP and so-called conservative forces, playing to the US side’s “Alliance forged in blood” fantasy, it’s really bad news. Now we’ll never hear the end of that perennial anti-American trope that “They’re here for Their Own Reasons™”
On the plus side, this will ensure the continued availability of Taco Bell.
I’ve wondered how beneficial troop cuts would be.
Certainly we can’t just pull everybody out, leaving the entire country in a mess that is just waiting to boil over in the future. As unfair as it is to the soldiers who serve and their families who anxiously wait their return.
Some mental image about making a bed and then lying in it comes to mind.
“Now we’ll never hear the end of that perennial anti-American trope that “They’re here for Their Own Reasons™””
But, is that wrong? Nothing is truly free. Even freedom has its price.
My guess: US DoD won’t be able to plan on anything for sure until they see what direction a new US administration wants to go as regards Korea policy overall. Until then, any attempt to pin down what is going to actually happen is peering into the twilight zone (as far as getting any consistent indicator from “leaks” to media as to what various sources think is going to happen).
I maintain a new Obama or Clinton administration, if making drastic & rapid reductions in Iraq (as they currently say they intend), will be anxious to show “toughness” in overall US defense policy and thus will be happy to accomodate ROK and go on kicking the can the road as regards reductions in USFK.
A Pres Romney would IMO defer to his experts — so much would depend on who he picks as national security advisor, and for State and esp Defense Secretary.
The real wild card would be a Pres McCain. On the one hand he will be very cognizant of the history of the “alliance forged in blood”; OTOH I think he would be very liable to give the ROK President a call, to let him know in no uncertain terms that the US is not willing to effectively & massively subsidize a white elephant “canals” project (by maintaining a high level of defense expenditures exclusively useful only for ROK ground defense).
McCain is an asshole. He has more then once made it clear that he hates “gooks”. Not only he refuses to apologize for it, he continues to use the term unabashedly. If he had used the term “Nigger”, he would have absolutely no hope of getting elected. But since he’s only targeting Asian Americans, he still has a good chance of winning the presidency. The terrible selection of candidates reflects steady decline of American influence and economy. Since the war on Iraq that McCain supports started, America has spent $1 trillion (a same amount that the US owes China). I have no doubt he’ll pull US troops out of Korea so that he can concentrate on paying for the Iraqi war.
Would the US really lose so much if the North took over the south and then practiced Chinese style capitalism? US taxpayers would save a bundle. An independent South Korea seems more of a burden to the USA than a benefit. Lets hope the USA comes to its senses and withdraws its troops. The USA can no longer afford its current policies.
The Pentagon removes troops by units rather than individuals or by half-units. They found that they could either leave a unit in Korea and be slightly over 25K or remove the unit and be under 25K. Knowing the perception that violating a US pledge for 25K would have in South Korea, especially for a new friendly ROK president, the Pentagon decided to leave the unit in place.
#6,
That posting made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Where do I begin? Uh… The North Koreans don’t practice Chinese style capitalism, they practice Cuban style communism (which only works because the tropical weather in Cuba makes practically any crop grow).
A belligerent government in the Korean peninsula with missiles that can cross the Sea of Japan (East Sea) would mean more U.S. troops in Japan. Where is it cheaper to station troops? Korea or Japan? Last time I checked comparative labor and real estate prices…
If someone moved into my apartment and paid for the mortgage, I would never kick him out. If that same person hinted at leaving, I’d cook him a nice steak dinner every night and try to coax him to stay.
Cuban-style communism doesn’t work, period.
#5 cm: “McCain is an asshole. He has more then once made it clear that he hates “gooks”. Not only he refuses to apologize for it, he continues to use the term unabashedly…”
Wow. Care to provide us with a link to even one “macaca” moment, or do you expect that your word on the matter should suffice?
If this were true, I reckon there must be plenty of angry Asian-American Arizona constituents of McCain — ones who have taken the time to register their anger/dismay somewhere on the internet.
Paul H, your ignorance on this matter proves my point. If he had attacked “niggers”, there would have been so much media hoopla that McCain’s career would have been finished by now, and you would have known about it.
I sure wouldn’t want a president of the most powerful country in the world who can’t control his emotions or prejudice and make stupid foolish decisions and formulate actions based on those feelings instead.
http://quest.cjonline.com/stor.....slur.shtml
#10 Paul. Look it up. It’s substantiated (not wiki-substantiated) that he refused to apologize about using the word ‘gook’ to refer to Vietnamese even after the war. The funny thing is, the Vietnamese-Americans for the most part were not offended but other Asian-Americans were. Go figure. I guess the Vietnamese felt bad about what their fellow country men did to McCain?
*I’m still voting for McCain this election, although I’m a registered Democrat…Unless Bloomberg enters the picture somehow…still hoping…
#5: Cut McCain some slack. If I was locked up for 5 1/2 years and tortured, I wouldnt be too surprised if the word ‘gook’ slipped out of my mouth whenever I had flashbacks of a nail being slowly hammered underneath my fingernails.
mccain shoot anyone in the back cause they were black?
# 12,
Lots of Vietnamese were tortured by the communists and they wouldn’t use a racial slur to describle their oppressors.
Also, I don’t mind if Barney in the local watering hole called his Vietnamese guards “gooks.” However, we are talking about a guy looking for my vote. If he’s not going to be considerate to the sensibilities of sizeable voting blocks then he doesn’t deserve people’s votes.
From the linked article:
“I apologize if I offended anyone,” McCain said recently. “But the validity of my statement, as I said, it was applied to a small group of sadists and murderers and the kindest word I could use about them was that. The rest of them (words) are not fit for family reading.”
McCain apologized and was only refering to the Vietnamese captors that tortured him for 5 1/2 years not all Asians in general.
#7,
Not to mention the problems caused by a disruption in the distribution of South Korean goods. Imagine if tomorrow the US couldn’t get any South Korean car parts for Kia and Hyundai cars, computer chips, and replacement parts for Samsung and LG electronics and home appliances (to name a few)?
#11
“I sure wouldn’t want a president of the most powerful country in the world who can’t control his emotions or prejudice and make stupid foolish decisions and formulate actions based on those feelings instead.”
LOL.
#12,
The communists doing the torturing were Vietnamese.
The link cm provided quotes McCain as apologizing in 2000 and no longer using the word, while refusing to apologize for using it in wartime/captivity to describe his captors. Are there any updates on this?
Konglick, why do you laugh? Does that reminds you of someone recently voted out of office?
Fuck McCain. I voting Obama.
“The link cm provided quotes McCain as apologizing in 2000″
He apologized alright. He said he was sorry if he offended anyone. He’s a bitter Vietnam Vet and he hasn’t healed. So the question is, how effective would his presidency be in Asia, if he doesn’t like Asians? The logic would dictate that he would be anti-Asian and anti-Asian American.
Um… wasn’t that like 8 years ago though? When I met him (about 3 years ago) in a very press-free environment, he didn’t seem to mind the rather large portion of Asians in our group. Seemed like a really nice guy.
McCain did use that word. He also apologized for using it. McCain’s story is that he meant to apply the term only to his captors and not Asians in general.
[Asian Week, Feb. 24, 2000]
I like McCain overall and I especially like what he says about North Korea, but I’m not completely satisfied with that explanation. It’s probably the one thing I like least about him. Had he not apologized promptly, it might have been a deal-breaker, but the fact is, he did apologize promptly.
(I wonder if I should mention this?)
To bring this discussion back on topic, I agree with Paul in #4 on all counts. No one can predict what McCain would do about the USFK, but we know that (1) he doesn’t seem to feel bound by conventional wisdom, (2) thinks for himself, and (3) it’s a very bad idea to piss him off. You can debate the merits of all of those qualities — McCain might not be alive today without them — but (3) is highly underrated.
WangKon #7
“Where is it cheaper to station troops Korea or Japan?
Last time I checked comparative labor and real estate prices…”
The Japanese tax payers pay more than 60% of the US troops stationing expenses.
And Korea ?
The US can save money by stationing their troops in Japan rather than in their own soil.
Natto is correct. I’m not up to date on cost sharing, so correct me if I’m wrong, but both countries pay 100% of local yen/won costs while Japan pays a greater share of US$ costs; hence, it is cheaper to maintain troops in Japan than in Korea. Korea long demanded a SOFA equivalent to Japan’s yet continues to balk at implementing the same cost sharing agreement.
Hey…. hold on a second…
I did some research and it actually takes more money to station troops in Japan then it does in Korea. The US spent about $6B to maintain 40k troops in Japan and $3B to maintain 30k troops in Korea (the net amount, subtracting any direct payments by the host countries, as reported to Congress). Break that down on a per capita basis and it costs the US about $150k a head in Japan and about $100k a head for Korea, that means it’s 50% more expensive for U.S. tax payers to keep troops in Japan then it does in Korea (in real terms).
So I was scratching my head about this and wondering why. It turns out that the problem with this figure of “paying 60-70% of the costs” is how the the Japanese actually contribute the costs. They don’t give Uncle Sam a check per say but pay for the salaries of 23,055 Japanese employees of the Americans (including translators of Japanese magazines and newspapers hired by the CIA), local construction costs, utilities, and rents for confiscated land. 25k Japanese staff to service 40k service people? Sounds bloated to me! The problem is that the US stationing in Japan (particularly Okinawa) is a bit of a local pork project to placate local Japanese officials to step in line with the national agenda of keeping US troops in Japan.
#20,
No, I was thinking about a couple of people closer to home.
Why pay any US dollars to defend Japan or South Korea. These economies are rich and can pay for their own defense. Japan is the second largest economy in the world. Why should the US borrow money from South Korea and Japan to pay to defend those countries.
This makes no sense whatsoever. US should not pay one cent to station troops in either Japan or Korea. Bring them home!
#29,
Well, keeping the US soldiers here creates jobs for Americans who work for military contractors and the arms industry, among other things.
Militarily, I’m not convinced it makes a lot of sense to maintain even 25K troops here - and that assessment is shared by some Army officer buddies of mine.
But what we can all agree on the point Konglick raised, there are a lot of hangers-on — both American and Korean — who make serious incomes by the US 8th Army being here. The US military presence, beyond the troops themselves, is a major industry in S Korea.
Also, relocating troops (and their families) entails creating new employment as well as lifestyle infrastructures for thousand of GI families. It will be tough to jettison a half century of investment in Korea to make sure that Honey and the kids can find employment and an education so easily elsewhere.
No wonder some US general officers are having some second thoughts.
Kwon,
When it comes to Japan does WWII ring a bell?
You are right Japan is the 2nd largest economy but a few Marines, Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors can over run that county in about a week. Korea on the other hand has an Armed Force of over 600K and those boys are no joke.
WangKong #27
“The problem is that the US stationing in Japan(particularly Okinawa) is a bit of of a local pork project to placate local Japanese officials to step in line with the national agenda of keeping US troops in Japan.”
Based upon the transformation plan agreed between the US and Japan, 7,000 of the US troops stationed in Okinawa will soon move to Guam. Japan will pay more than six billion dollars to build new facilities in Guam for the US troops to be transferred to Okinawa. If Japan wants to keep the US troops in Japan, why does she have to do this ?
The US military commitments overseas are bankrupting the US economy and endangering the well being of the american people. Borrowing money from China,Japan and South Korea to defend against possible attacks on Japan or South Korea is insane. If there is a war with China will the US continue to borrow money from China to finance its war against China. US can not afford to give Korea and Japan a free pass any longer.
Bones, Japan is a rich modern country. If it refuses to defend itself, it should at least 100 percent of stationing US troops in Japan if not more. I suggest the US take a page out of the asian play book and make a profit off it. Perhaps Japan and Korea should pay 120 percent of the cost. Then it might make economic sense for the US to defend Japan and Korea.
I personally don’t see anything wrong with McCain as he apologized for anyone being offended by his use of the word “gook.” I mean, come on, thin of the hell he went through at the hands of his captors for those 5 years. I would think Koreans would be very understanding of this since they always seem to use the exact same defense argument of being tortured or abused at the hands of Japan to justify their free use of words like “jap” or “chopari”.
# 33,
Historically, the Japanese wanted the U.S. to subsidize their defense under the auspices of the Cold War. Things are now different now with different threats etc. I think the deal with the troop reduction in Okinawa has something to do with a combination of a few things. First is the well documented issue of Okinawan residents not liking a big US base in their small island (which is around the size of Los Angeles County) and the occasional rowdy Marine. Second is cost issues which we have talked about and third is that the US will share missile defense technology under the agreement. This is something that the Japanese really want.
Argument about stationing US Army ground troops in Japan vs leaving them in Korea is pointless. There’s no room for any additional US Army troops (or US Marines) in Japan regardless of who’s paying what proportion of expenses.
(Note: I’m talking “room” in terms of area for training maneuvers, not merely barracks space. “Room” also implies the need for a lack of irritating proximity to local population; like ROK, Okinawa is much more intensely populated now than it was 50-plus years ago, when the US bases were originally established).
And US Army ground forces are not needed for Japanese ground defense anyway. Should Japan be attacked from the Asian mainland in some manner, the US portion of the defense of Japan will be accomplished by the US Air Force and the US Navy (and possibly by a relatively small additional amount of US Army missile defense ground forces).
If pre-stocked US equipment is left behind in Korea it will be manned periodically by rotating US forces coming from CONUS, probably on an annual exercise basis. They will conduct intense training maneuvers and then promptly leave, with no time to harass the local women and jump up and down on the local taxis.
What’s not to like about that? Besides, it’s unthinkable that North Korea will ever again attack their brothers in the ROK.
For those claiming McCain is anti-Asian, he has an adopted Bangladeshi daughter that was used against him during the 2000 primary election in South Carolina by the Bush campaign claiming he had an illegitimate daughter.
McCain this year had to mail flyers in South Carolina of his wife holding their adopted daughter after adopting her in Bangladesh in order preempt another smear attack against her:
http://ap.google.com/article/A.....QD8U3BQ0G1
And people wonder why McCain dislikes the Bush administration.
OK. This isn’t true.
Gen. Bell strongly implied that the original report misquoted him.
“And people wonder why McCain dislikes the Bush administration.”
Gotta throw the BS flag on that one. McCain has gone out of his way to praise Bush on numerous issues including the mis-handling of the Iraq war. I’d even say he’s become Bush’s lapdog despite their past differences. It’s this kind if flip-flopping and his sucking up to Falwell’s Moral Minority that caused me to lose all respect for McCain. Plus I don’t think we need a member of the status-quo old guard who’s been a part of the decades old problems in Washington as our new leader. Time for some fresh blood. America is at a crossroads and needs someone with a bold new vision…not someone with cataracts.
McCain had been bashing Bush’s war strategy for years, demanded more troops be deployed, and that Rumsfeld be sacked. Finally Bush agreed with him and things turned around.
Go ask Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Anne Coulter and the rest of the conservatives if McCain is Bush’s lap dog. Coulter said she would vote for Hillary over McCain. The Fox News Channel has pretty much become the Romney News Channel because the conservative leaders dislike McCain so much.
“I’d even say he’s become Bush’s lapdog despite their past differences.”
It’s called politics my friend. Who knows who likes/hates whom? I didnt like the fact that McCain had a little mutual jerk off with Giuliani after Mr. 9/11 dropped out but he has to play the game to gain the votes of his former supporters. BTW, thank God Giuliani is out. If anybody benefitted from 9/11, it’s Mr. 9/11 himself.
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/N.....060038.asp
no change, just a rumor.
3 Trackbacks
[...] Robert will be pleased to hear that according to the USFK Spokesman, via the Hanky, plans to reduce the force to 25,000 [...]
[...] have been waiting to comment on the Korean media speculation that USFK was going to halt troop cuts and as I suspected the Korean media misquoted General [...]
[...] can breath a sigh of relief. Reports that the US was suspending troop cuts in Korea have turned out to be — once again — [...]