Alright, lads, let’s see how we chew this one off. I’ll lob out this here article I had the misfortune of reading this morning regarding a certain New York establishment shamefully selling Korean food under the guise of its Japanese counterpart. Now, as per the statement made by Park Kun-Ho, I’m not sure I agree. In fact, some of the best damn grub I’ve had in Korea has been at little hole-in-the-walls. Some people do hunt high and low for taste not ambiance. Any thoughts?
-
English Books on Korea... and More!
-
Visit My Brother's Film Review Site
82 Comments
If I hear/read another thing about the mythical Korean Wave, I am going to be sick.
Is there no other news going on in the world that Korean papers now have to attack Japanese restaurants in New York City for their menu choices? Korea is concerned about her image. The first and best way to improve the image by about a factor of ten is to stop whining about petty things like this. Koreans should be FLATTERED that a Japanese restaurant chain would sell Korean food.
On second thought, the next time I see a Korean restaurant selling ‘Western’ dishes, I think I will write a column in the New York Times complaining about how they didn’t properly attribute it to the West, and tried to pass it off as Korean.
That’s odd, I noticed that the Japanese Government is going to start a certification program (thanks Lisa), aimed at the many “fake” Japanese restaurants that exist in many places. Oddly enough, in some places like Washington, DC, *all* except for one of the Japanese restaurants I’ve been to there are owned by Koreans. It is amusing to hear Korean coming from the kitchens.
But pretty much all he’s saying is that, all things being equal (the non-Korean-owned restaurant serves food that tastes exactly like the Korean-owned ones…), he’d prefer to take his friends to the one with the nicer atmosphere.
Well sure, but considering some of the Korean restaurants I’ve been to here in the States were either hidden away, or else didn’t even have signs in English, it’s not entirely surprising that the clientele looked about 95% Korean. More’s the pity, since the ones I’ve been to with adequate signs and which actually looked like restaurants both outside and in tended to charge about $15 for a bowl of damn bibimbap.
Every single Korean restaurant I’ve been to in the US, Canada, and Southeast Asia was run by Koreans. All the Korean restaurants I patronized in China were managed either by South Koreans or by Korean-Chinese. This story is yet another example of how the media spins a negative generalization out of one or two examples.
Almost every Japanese restaurant in Sydney (ok..can’t give an exact % but majority at least) are run by Koreans. Some are fusion ‘Korean-Japanese’ but most Japanese restaurants and may or may not have the odd Korean dish.
I really miss eating Korean food in Korea!!
damn dishonest gyopos of America and beyond,
wjk speaks on this issue.
Koreans, you are the ones who turned to discount sushi restaurants across the US major cities,
citing that
1/ Korean food won’t sell well outside of Korean population.
2/ Japanese food is money in the bank.
Now, you have the nerve to criticize the Japanese for selling Korean food and reaping in $ for it?
Oh, come on, for crying out loud !
Hey, dude, if you look at how the food is presented, just by aesthetics alone, I think the Japanese offer a unique way to offer Korean food that is well deserving of them to profit off of Korean food.
The Japanese making dollars off of Korean food is not a bad thing. Let’em do it.
I see too many gyopo owned sushi restaurants already, that it causes me to question why I bother caring about Korea in general.
gyopos, why can you do it, and they can’t?
ni ga ha myun, bool ryun.
nae ga ha myun, romance.
and while you’re on it, gyopos, buy more Hyundais.
Not the damn Honda or the Toyota.
‘The number of restaurants selling “Korean” food is growing. But it is foreigners who make the money’
While here in Korea, the number of restaurants selling “foreign” food is growing, but it is Koreans who make the money.
The Chosun (and other English-language Korean press) really does need to find another term to describe people of non-Korean nationality, since the ‘foreigners’ in this case, who are making money off of Korean food in Singapore and elsewhere, may very likely be natives of these places.
I don’t know where to begin with this crap.
1. Probably every Japanese restaurant I’ve been to in the U.S. was run by ethnic Koreans.
2. The idea that only your “nationality” should benefit from selling “your” food is ludicrous. Are the Italians bitching about Pizza Hut?
3. The Japanese kick ass at presentation. I’d be proud to have them deign to render my dishes in a more presentable way (just look at that picture).
4. Every time a columnist writes an inferiority complex-driven article like this Korea drops a notch.
re: #6
my, oh, my, WJK, you must be a giants fan giddy over the just-finished SB win.
otherwise, how to explain such a logical, coherent piece of writing from you? and complete with hints of negativity (or at least criticism) toward korea (”it causes me to question why I bother caring about Korea in general”).
i’m impressed.
and in complete agreement with your overall point.
When I make Korean food for my (white American) family, I always tell them it’s “Cajun Chicken” or something. I know that if I tell them it’s Korean, they won’t eat it.
You know the answer is yes — just not for the reasons Koreans are bitching about Korean food in the Japanese restaurant.
re: #12 “I know that if I tell them it’s Korean, they won’t eat it.”
maybe i missed it, but is there an unspoken inference from this that we’re supposed to make?
i know i haven’t made it, so i’ll bite: why won’t your white american family eat your “korean chicken” if you don’t tell them it’s “cajun chicken”? are they racist? do they hate koreans and korean food?
or are they all from louisiana?
yeah, koreans own most of the japanese restaurants in my area, but they ain’t presenting japanese food as if it were korean, are they?
I am in total agreement with WJK on this one. I think it is a compliment that Korean food is being marketed by other ethnic eateries, just like Pizza Hut for pizza, Taco Bell for tacos, etc.
Also for poster #15, if you go to any Gyu-kaku restaurant in Japan, all of them have the menu written in hangul as well as in Japanese. That should be enough to avoid any accusation of “claiming as their own”. Also, the menu in every Gyu-kaku at which I have been (in CA and HI) has the historical Korean origin of “yakiniku” written out clearly stating that it comes from Korean bbq. Besides, if they were really claiming as Japanese, why in the world would they try to keep the naming the same as the original such as “kalbi”, “jabche:, “bibimba”, “kimchi” etc.?
On the other hand, I have met countless numbers of Koreans who are convinced that “sushi” is not the correct word for raw fish on rice, and that it really should be called “chobap”. I even met Koreans who think that “udon” should really be called “udong” because it is originally Korean, and that “soba” is actually from “momil kukusu”. So I don’t think they really have any argument here.
Besides, if you have ever tried Japanese “yakiniku”, even though the origins are found in kalbi, pulkogi, and Korean bbq, the style of grilling/cooking and type of meats are very quite different. The meats are premarinated and have much more sugar and garlic in Korean style. Japanese yakiniku uses a higher grade of meat (more marbled), but traditionally do not have the meat premarinated as Japanese cuisine seems to value the taste of each ingredient by itself without overmasking by sauces or spices. On the other hand, the theme in Korean cuisine is the mixing of many different ingredients under a common hot pepper paste baste. Both are very tasty in each’s own unique way and it depends on what kind of mood I am in. When I am dying for hunger and want to chow down with a cold brew, I prefer Korean bbq. However, when I am in a very mood for a very delicate and fine taste dining experience with a glass of sake or shochu, I prefer yakiniku.
I mean, after all, can you really say that Korean style udon is the same as Japanese style udon? Or that kimbap is the same as maki zushi?
Just chill out, relax and be thankful for these great culinary creative inventions.
and another thing, when koreans open japanese restaurants, they don’t advertise said restaurants as korean restaurants. gyugaku presents itself as japanese when the food is actually korean. in other words, because japanese own it, it’s japanese.
now, can you imgine the whininig if koreans opened up a ‘korean’ restaurant that actually served japanese food?
It bothers me that “waiters and waitresses of various ethnic backgrounds”—even African-Americans—are working in a Japanese, wait, Korean restaurant. Actually, I’m a little bothered that the author mentioned that.
Also telling is: “At the same hour, a Korean restaurant run by Koreans on 32nd Avenue in Manhattan is full of only Korean customers — Korean-Americans, representatives of Korean companies and tourists.” What a surprise. I’ve been to 32nd street—the “Koreatown” a few blocks from the Empire State Building—and didn’t see a non-Korean face. Or “waiters of waitresses of various ethnic backgrounds.” Thank heavens.
a compliment? it’s realy suspicious that so many things thoguhgt of as uniquely japanese always seem to have antecedents in korea. it ain’t a compliment when the people doing the complimenting are japanese. uh, what’s ’shochu’?
you get now?
I touched on the subject here: http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/.....ku-gimbap/
My overall point is that no one has the right to bitch about who’s food culture belongs to who be it the Japanese government in trying to “certify” off border restaurant’s for “authenticity” or Koreans regarding gogi.
I wonder sometimes… Look at Thailand, a nation that probably has going for it as far as international image is concerned bloody kick boxing sports, a haven for pedophiliacs, an “interesting” acceptance of transgender subculture and the cheapest and most readily available prostitutes in Southeast Asia. However, their food culture is vastly more accepted and appreciated in the U.S. Why? Because Thais are friendly and sharing with their food culture. Duh!
We Koreans? Hell, a lot of Korean restaurant owners are racist. There, I said it. You know deep down inside all you Korean Americans know it’s true. It comes in the form of the menus in Korean only or the extra long time it takes for servers to serve non-Korean clientele or bizarre excuses such as “we ran out of noodles” or “we ran out of rice.” Non-Koreans love Korean food, but most don’t venture to do so unless they have a Korean friend who can bitch to the waiters to get descent service.
pawi, are you making sense to yourself? you don’t seem to be making sense to anyone else.
get your head out of that (japanese) sake bottle for a moment and try to write something lucid for the rest of us in this particular universe to understand.
or else share some that sake with the rest of us so we can be transported to your particular dimension and figure out what the hell you’re talking about…
“it’s realy suspicious that so many things thoguhgt of as uniquely japanese always seem to have antecedents in korea.”
Hey Pawi, who do you think introduced the beloved “Korean” pojang mach’a here? And who do you think introduced the very popular odaeng often served in Korean street-food stalls?
Likewise, if the Japanese hadn’t introduced the red pepper to Korea during the Hideyoshi Invasions, Korean cuisine as we know it today would be virtually inconceivable.
A little more magnanimity from the nationalists here would be much appreciated.
#15,
No, the ones I’ve been to were presenting Korean food as if it was Japanese (Korean ‘heot’ as if it was Japanese ’sashimi’).
The restaurant in question in the article appears to be serving the Korean-Japanese fusion food that is very popular in Japan;hence, it is serving Japanese food.
re: #20
points all well-made. i now propose we all hop on a hong kong-based cathay pacific airways flight with vietnamese stewardesses to singapore and go eat malay-advertised japanese-cooked korean galbi, drink indian-made newcastle ale and russian-style soju, be entertained by thai gigolo-owned filipina stippers married to unaware u.s. military ladyboy-wannabes while watching korean-venezuelan gyopos play cricket with canadian hockey pucks made in denmark.
pawi, you’re not invited because you have no sense of humour
#17,
See number 23.
The author has obviously never heard of Kabuki Restaurant or Todai Restaurant, both Korean owned. What a freak’in ignorant moron.
# 23,
As long as we don’t eat any fake Chinese eggs. Yes, the Chinese have figured out a way to COUNTERFEIT eggs which pretty much tastes like real eggs but are cheaper. The catch? It’s been proven to cause blindness if consumed over time…
>now, can you imgine the whininig if >koreans opened up a ‘korean’ restaurant >that actually served japanese food?
No, I can’t because I am assuming you are implying that Japanese would be the ones “whining”? If so, I don’t see any whining being done when Koreans sell kimbap, udon, soba, green tea, tonkatsu, tempura as Korean in Korean restaurants. Trust me, these items appear in the menus of so many Korean restaurants.
>it’s realy suspicious that so many >things thoguhgt of as uniquely japanese >always seem to have antecedents in korea.
Not really suspicious at all, because in Japan, the origin of the food is openly acknowledged since Japan does not suffer from the inferiority complex of having to “prove itself” like Korea. Everyone in Japan knows that yakiniku is originally Korean, and that kimchi is Korean. It is common fact that ramen noodles is Chinese as even the bowl in which it is served is always a Chinese bowl.
On the other hand, how many Koreans know that ramyun or bokkeumbap is Chinese in origin? The Japanese even use the original Chinese character pronunciation (Chahan) for fried rice whereas the Koreans use a uniquely Korean name, “bokkeumbap”. So you tell me…which side pays more “respect” or more openly acknowledges the origin of their food?
It’s a ridiculous point to argue over, but if it is that important to you…
>it ain’t a compliment when the people >doing the complimenting are japanese.
Well, therein lies the source of the (your) problem.
>uh, what’s ’shochu’?
Shochu is distilled liquor and grain alcohol that is the working man’s drink in Japan, but in recent years has gotten to have a very chique and hip image. The last time I visited Tokyo, I had a blast at the shochu bars (most of them over a hundred years old) in hideaway places in Shimokitazawa. As you could probably tell by the name, it is similar to soju.
Now before you bust a gasket over the assumption that this is another “stolen property of Korea” I will let you know that “shochu” and “soju” are basically just two different pronounciations of the same word meaning “distilled liquor”. The Chinese even use the same word. Thus, you can relax. Noone copied or “stole” anything from anyone. However, the two are similar but also very different in taste and image. Soju is very cheap and plentiful and carries a very blue collar image. Also, it is alot sweeter than shochu. Shochu is much drier but has so many different varieties ranging from a base made from rice, barley or potatoes (like vodka). Also, you will find shochu sold at convenient stores that are just as cheap as Chamisul or Jinro soju in Korea. However, there is a whole other genre of shochu that is very expensive and can cost up to 70 bucks a bottle which tastes like nectar from the gods.
You should try it out sometimes. I think it is what you need to chill out and just appreciate food and drink for what it is rather than obsess about whether or not the origin is not rightfully being represented.
“Not really suspicious at all, because in Japan, the origin of the food is openly acknowledged since Japan does not suffer from the inferiority complex of having to “prove itself” like Korea. Everyone in Japan knows that yakiniku is originally Korean, and that kimchi is Korean. It is common fact that ramen noodles is Chinese as even the bowl in which it is served is always a Chinese bowl.”
# 26,
I have to disagree with that. The servers and managers I’ve talked to at Gyu-Kaku and Manpuku swear to me that it’s traditional Japanese food. I can also guarantee you that most Japanese people don’t know that tonkasu is actually based on a German dish called a wiener schnitzel.
Korean food is really good. The presentation is horrible.
Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is here, seeing as the wholesale appropriation of food culture is about as American as pizza, and hence completely natural to me. But hey, as soon as we find someone who eats only plants and animals that have been indigenous to their area for the past 10,000 years or so, using cooking methods that weren’t influenced by any other culture, I’ll be sure to listen really closely to what he has to say regarding why that’s a good thing.
The money shot….
“Park Kun-ho (35), who moved to Singapore three months ago, said, “Crystal Jade serves Korean foods whose taste is no different from those served by other Korean restaurants operated by real Koreans. But it has a much better atmosphere. It doesn’t smell bad. And you don’t eat food just because of the taste, do you? If I were to introduce my foreign friends to Korean cuisine, I wouldn’t take them to restaurants operated by Koreans.”
#26
Well, I can’t say that what you are saying is not true, but if it is, perhaps it is for your case only. All I can say is that I have lived 4 years in Japan, and noone in the 4 years I lived there has denied that Gyu-kaku or Manpuku yakiniku is Korean based. Also, it has been over 120 years that tonkatsu has been introduced into Japan so it is more understandable that the origins of the food is less important. I find that Japanese don’t really obsess about which nation created what as much as the Koreans do. I doubt that the Austrians (Germans) really care that the Japanese always pay homage to this fact either.
I wonder when, if at all, the Koreans will be able to reach the same level of confidence…
Sorry, I meant for my post to be directed at #27.
#27,
“The Chinese”? Dude, shouldn’t you have written instead, ’some crooks in China’? The implication of using ‘the Chinese’ seems a tad racist to me.
In any case, I ran this story by my wife (she’s Korean). I often run things by her to get a feel for the reaction of the average, open-minded, Korean on these ‘important’ issues. “Oh, that’s terrible” (she was being sarcastic).
So, based on my totally unscientific poll, I have to conclude that most Koreans have better things to worry about than kimchi being served in a Japanese restaurant located halfway around the world.
“I can also guarantee you that most Japanese people don’t know that tonkasu is actually based on a German dish called a wiener schnitzel.”
Well, I “agree” that not everyone knows that “Tonkatsu” has its origin in Wiener schnitzel. I think there are more who believe that it has its origin in French cuisine because the “Katsu” is a Japanese abbreviation of the French word “cutlet” (actually elder people call it still “Katsu-retsu”)
But everyone in Japan knows that it has its origin in western food. It fall in the category of “Yo-shoku (western foods)”, a name for all the Japanized version of western cuisine since the 19th century.
I completely agree with what bbundaegi has written.
‘Also, the menu in every Gyu-kaku at which I have been (in CA and HI) has the historical Korean origin of “yakiniku” written out clearly stating that it comes from Korean bbq. Besides, if they were really claiming as…’
could you help me out here? i’m having a hard time finding the word ‘korea’ on their american menu. and don’t think one example would be enough. unlike the koreans, the japanese are trying to present korean food as japanese. they may not do that in japan, but that’s certainly what they do outside of japan.
http://www.gyu-kaku.com/module.....php?id=21#
as for kimbap, i see that as korean, so we have a disagreement. however, their isn’t any disagreement that ’soon du bu’ and ‘kalbi’ are korean.
Which itself is Austrian.
#36,
It’s Korean-Japan fusion food, which is quite popular in Japan, so I wouldn’t go as far as to say that they are trying to deceive their customers. It’s a Japanese restaurant, regardless of whether they go out of their way to explain that it is fusion food to their customers.
Heck, to many Japanese in Japan, this sort of food has become such a big part of their diet, they consider it as their own. There’s nothing wrong about that. If you had pizza for lunch and your friends asked you what you had, would you answer, “Italian food”? Probably not.
Read #35, BTW.
‘could you help me out here? i’m having a hard time finding the word ‘korea’ on their american menu.’
-> Try going to a Gyu-kaku restaurant and see an actual menu. It might be hard for you to do, but just to confirm my point.
‘unlike the koreans, the japanese are trying to present korean food as japanese.’
-> Really? Koreans don’t? You might want to tell the management at Koamart to cease labeling “udon” as Korean and give proper homage to its Japanese origin. But like I said before, Japanese (or any other nationality) really don’t care to the point where they will write articles in newspapers to complain about this.
Link
‘as for kimbap, i see that as korean, so we have a disagreement.’
-> Well, if you see kimbap as Korean, then why is it wrong for people to see yakiniku as Japanese? Kimbap did not exist in Korea before the colonization. This is a fact.
This leads to the point of which is worse:
- Slightly alterning a cuisine and reinventing it as your own as the Japanese do.
or
- Keeping claim to the origin of a cuisine but altering it so drastically to the point where people from the country of its origin (Japan) will never consider it as the “real thing” but use it only for marketability, as the Koreans do?
Noone has the moral upperhand in this one. Thus, it is’s ridiculous to label one side as “right” and the other as “wrong.”
“as for kimbap, i see that as korean, so we have a disagreement.”
Sorry Pawi… but Kimbap is derived from maki sushi and didn’t make it’s appearance until AFTER 1905…
Read it and weap…
http://search.hankooki.com/tim.....654130.htm
Weap?…. ugh. I meant Weep.
“Likewise, if the Japanese hadn’t introduced the red pepper to Korea during the Hideyoshi Invasions, Korean cuisine as we know it today would be virtually inconceivable.”
There is a fair amount of scholarly debate as to who introduced red chilies to Korea. Was it the Japanese during the Imjin War or the Portuguese as a result of the Imjin War. One can certainly say that it was introduced as a result of that war, but one cannot say with certainty the nationality of the savvy merchants that brought the plant to Korea.
What’s even more interesting is the phenomenon of koreans pretending to be japanese in the guise of operating a bona fide japanese restaurant.
You see places like this all over California and NYC - a japanese restaurant with a authentic sounding japanese name. When you step inside they all shout ‘irrashayai! and the services workers will drop occassional japanese catchphrases like saying ‘hai’ instead of yes. If you’re non asian (like me) the workers will chat in korean to each other, but around non-korean asian customers they seem to be more discreet in displaying their ethnicity.
Personally I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this. Just that I find it funny when I read articles like this and ponder the hypocrisies of koreans condemning certain cultures yet going to the length of imitating a different national identity if there’s money to be made there. Some of my japanese co-workers seem to be annoyed with such ‘fake’ japanese restaurants though, but they all know which ones are which and word gets around. Even the mainstream seems to be catching on to this nowdays as metropolitan newspaper restaurant reviews concerning japanese/sushi joints will drop hints if a place is authentically run by japanese or not.
Wang, it is agreed that the Portuguese brought the red pepper to Japan. But the Hideyoshi Invasions were the catalyst for its introduction to Korea, so either way the Japanese had a hand in it. And it is only a hundred years or so after the Hideyoshi Invasions that bbalgan or red kimchi first appears in Korea, according to the historical record.
And which is horrifying to the poor schlub on vacation who thinks he’s finally found the local Der Wienerschnitzel restaurant in Europe. Just horrifying.
re #33:
“as for kimbap, i see that as korean, so we have a disagreement.”
pawi, you probably see the asteroid belt between mars and jupiter as being korean.
“however, their isn’t any disagreement that ’soon du bu’ and ‘kalbi’ are korean.”
what are you saying–that no other country in the world has soft tofu or ribs as part of their cuisine or that korea invented those two as foods?
What these cultural nationalists just don’t want to admit is that the Korean identity actually contains parts of the Japanese identity as well. Korea was a Japanese colony for 35 or 40 years. Park Chung Hee got his organizational know-how from the Japanese military, Lee Myung-bak was actually born in Japan. You can’t just block off the Korean and Japan parts so easily. They’re as mixed as a bowl of bibimbap.
America was a colony of Britain’s and I don’t feel that my American identity is threatened by that fact. Same for Australia. What makes Koreans so special and different? Your essentialist views of cultural identity are just so old-fashioned and last century, if not grossly reactionary.
#43,
The way I see it, both sides of the argument have moot points. Red peppers were first grown by my ancestors in the Americas.
I’m starting to suspect that its this one special class they take while in middle school, called ethics. Its where they learn that Korea has a glorious 5000 year old history, foreigners can’t eat Kimchi or use chopsticks, and kimbap is Korean.
I’ve also seriously considered how feasible it would be to assassinate every single ethics teacher on the peninsula.
@#44:
Somebody give me or coin a name for this fallacy, and I’m referring to the one Mondoo is committing above.
When he (or she) writes about “Koreans,” surely, he’s not saying he knows Koreans who own or operate Japanese restaurants, who then (ie the very same individuals) condemn Japanese for owning Korean restaurants. What does one call this mistake in reasoning where one reifies the very category of some group of people and then misattributes properties, responsibilities, and such where they don’t belong? This mistake is much worse than mere generalization, or more annoying. Category mistake? Whatever it is, it’s bullshit.
#52
If it were the case that Koreans who ran Japanese restaurants criticized Japanese who ran Korean restaurants, that would be labelled hypocrisy, which is the term Mondoo uses.
The only error I see is in accusing a restaurant of being unauthentic merely because the chefs aren’t natives of their cuisine. It isn’t the nationality of the chef that makes the food. I’m sure some Koreans could prepare better sushi than some Japanese, just as some Japanese could prepare better bibimbap than some Koreans.
This would be called a fallacy of necessity:
A. Some Koreans run Japanese restaurants
B. All restaurants run by foreigners are necessarily “fake”
Conclusion: All Korean-run Japanese restaurants are necessarily “fake”
Premise B is a false premise, since we know that it is a fallicy to state that, by necessity, a chef can only be good at preparing food from his country of origin. Maybe our lawyer Brendon can expand.
Bollocks! Nothin’ niftier than grillin’ some meat on welded-together rebar over a 55 gallon oil drum cut in half. That is quintessentially Korean. Never see that in Singabore.
But we all agree it’s kimuchi, right?
Well… considering the fact that the people who live in Korea now generally regard themselves to be a part of the culture that pre-existed the colonization by Japan (granted, by glossing over or ignoring various of the cultural and genetic contributions Japan made during that time period) alongside the fact that most Americans and Australians identify more with the culture of the colonizers, I can somewhat understand. I suppose if you really want to make the comparison, ask a Native American or an Aboriginal Australian how they feel about the ancestral homeland being colonized, and their culture appropriated.
# 55,
You have to also remember that Korea wasn’t colonized for that long, about 35 to 40 years. Some of the changes that the Japanese instituted, such as using Chinese characters for academic western terms, western institutions, Confucian inspired management style, etc. were not distinctly “Japanese” per say.
Who gives a rat’s ass where it’s made or who made it. As long as it tastes good. These are the type of retarded Koreans I wanna lock up in re-education centers.
On a side note, why do Koreans stare at foreigners eating Korean food? Hasnt the novelty worn off yet??? I cant even imagine all the white people staring at me throughout the whole meal while I chomp on an order of burger and fries.
Yet another example of why Korean journalists aren’t fit to sit at the adults’ table.
The closet analogy I can think of is the relationship between Black guys and hip-hop. I love to listen to hip-hop music. One of the artists I listen to is Chan (used to be Snacky Chan) who does what’s called underground hip-hop.
Some random Black guy listens to my Chan CD and they think it’s awesome shit. Then they ask me who it is and when I tell them its a Korean guy named Roy Kim from NJ, the reaction is universal: first confusion, followed by disbelief, then they get real angry.
#56 - I agree, but I still don’t think it’s completely genuine to compare Korean attitudes towards colonization with the Anglo-American/Anglo-Australian one, seeing as the perspectives there are nearly diametrically opposed. As for the question over whether or not many of these imports were purely ‘Japanese’ or not… Well, no culture really lives in a vacuum, so I’m sure we could find outside influences in just about any ‘cultural property’ if we looked hard enough. After all, even a quintiscentially ‘Korean’ dish like baechu kimchi is fraught with non-Korean influences (most of the main ingredients being non-native species, f’rinstance…)
Stare back.
@#53,
You’re way off base, dude. I was being rhetorical, you misunderstood my point, and, also, your understanding of fallacy of neccesity appears to be wrong. That said, I think I’ll defer an explanation for later.
#58 Yet another example of why Korean journalists aren’t fit to sit at the adults’ table.
Amen. I can’t fathom why the Chosun chooses to translate so many of its most amateurishly awful articles in English for the wider world to see.
‘Amen. I can’t fathom why the Chosun chooses to translate so many of its most amateurishly awful articles in English for the wider world to see.’
I have always wondered about this too. I almost think that they are doing it intentionally. Just to rile up foreigners? Or are they that clueless about the greater cosmopolitan world view of things? Does the Chosun Ilbo really think of itself as a world-class professional paper or does it know that it is taken as a joke and print such articles just for fun?
‘Amen. I can’t fathom why the Chosun chooses to translate so many of its most amateurishly awful articles in English for the wider world to see.’
I have always wondered about this too. I almost think that they are doing it intentionally. Just to rile up foreigners? Or are they that clueless about the greater cosmopolitan world view of things? Does the Chosun Ilbo really think of itself as a world-class professional paper or does it know that it is taken as a joke and print such articles just for fun?
‘Also, the menu in every Gyu-kaku at which I have been (in CA and HI) has the historical Korean origin of “yakiniku” written out clearly stating that it comes from Korean bbq. Besides, if they were really claiming as…’
http://www.gyu-kaku.com/module…..php?id=21#
ANSWER THE QUESTION! you made the statement, back it up. where is korea on the menu? you said gyu gaku makes it very clear they’re selling korean food. SHOW ME!
know what?
YOU MADE IT UP.
Perhaps my logic is faulty here, but it seems like the article talks about the need for Koreans to market their food better than other establishments that serve Korean food.
It seems to talk about the need for Korean-owned establishments to think and learn more about marketing and customer service.
The only part I would have issues with, in the article, “Japan is not the only country that is “stealing” Korean traditions.”
Does the English version of this article reflect the Korean article? I’m thinking it might be a translation issue…
Also, with so many of the regulars posting here and arguing about their dislikes and likes on certain Korean behavior or issues, why not send letters/emails to the newspapers, online groups, and site you guys post about and tell it like it is?
# 63,
What disturbs me more is the Chosun Ilbo’s lack of consistancy. How is it that just under a year ago that there was an article that took an entirely different spin on Gyu-Kaku (http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200707/200707250008.html) from the one that was most recently printed.
Better link here:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....50008.html
Amen. I can’t fathom why the Chosun chooses to translate so many of its most amateurishly awful articles in English for the wider world to see.
I agree that the non-issue presented by the article is one of those spectacular examples of “who the fuck cares about this shit”.
But I also don’t give a flying fuck about Britney Spear’s latest problems either.
#61
So what’s your point? abcdefg, say no to drugs. And yes to learning the alphabet.
#68
Somebody’s lying, we all know you bought her latest album.
#65
Link here:
http://www.gyukaku.ne.jp/index1.html
Don’t be so angry.
wjk to the rescue,
It seems that Japan has irked South Korea once before on kimchi before, so South Korea has its valid suspicions.
I’m making myself vulnerable here, by going with what seems to have been written by a gyopo, but whatever, I don’t have the resources to search any deeper.
http://www.american.edu/TED/kimchi.htm
When did this happen?
1970? 1980?
Get over it, right?
Actually, surprisingly, 1996!
You know how you always be wary of sex criminals, even if they did it just once?
It’s kind of like that, South Korea and Japan.
What is the solution to do away with this mutual hatred once and for all?
There is none, of course.
The English still bicker with the French, the Scots still want independence from the English, the Dutch don’t trust the Deutch, the Russians don’t trust West Europe, etc, etc.
Another bloody war, I say. Duke’em, Nuke’em.
wjk to the rescue,
It seems that Japan has irked South Korea once before on kimchi before, so South Korea has its valid suspicions.
I’m making myself vulnerable here, by going with what seems to have been written by a gyopo, but whatever, I don’t have the resources to search any deeper.
http://www.american.edu/TED/kimchi.htm
When did this happen?
1970? 1980?
Get over it, right?
Actually, surprisingly, 1996!
You know how you always be wary of sex criminals, even if they did it just once?
It’s kind of like that, South Korea and Japan.
What is the solution to do away with this mutual hatred once and for all?
There is none, of course.
The English still bicker with the French, the Scots still want independence from the English, the Dutch don’t trust the Deutch, the Russians don’t trust West Europe, etc, etc.
Another bloody war, I say. Duke’em, Nuke’em.
but, sa-dae Koreans have no spine, when it comes to the Chinese…
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/C.....2Cb05.html
Have some dignity.
It’ll look good on you.
this guy sounds very familiar,
http://www.tomcoyner.com/kimchi_wars.htm
yet, this guy kept silent.
Why?
Does a white dude in Korea get egg on his face when he stands up saying something good about Korea?
I guess so.
God gave men brains. Men will use this gift to destroy each other.
however, I still think Japanese chain restaurant selling Korean food is a great thing.
that is a major upside for the Japanese. The ability to take something and sell a better version.
wjk - quit while you are ahead. #6 was actually a very logical response.
Slim,
You actually read through that stream of consciousness? Isn’t there some reality show on TV you could be watching instead?
Check out the Gyu Kaku Midtown menu:
http://www.gyu-kaku.com/monthl.....menu_s.pdf
If the link doesn’t work, just google “gyu kaku” to get a link to the company homepage. Looking at the menu, authentic Korean dishes like Galbi and jjigae comprise only about a quarter of the menu. The rest is Japanese or fusion.
#76 wjk
“That is a major upside for the Japanese. The ability to take something
and sell a better version.”
Have you ever tried something at Gyu kaku? Gyu kaku is a third class restaurant comparable to Mac. They serve only frozen beef like most of the barbecue restraurants in Seoul. Visit any three-star yakiniku(barbecue) place in Tokyo, they serve chilled beef. You have to pay more than $100 each though.
boshintang,
I argued against this logic: One Korean condemns A, another Korean does A; therefore, “Korean” is hypocritical. Or: One Korean writes an article condemning one thing. Another Korean, who is not the prior Korean, does something which the article condemns.
Obviously, the problem is that we don’t know that the author of the article owns or would own a foreign restaurant. We cannot accuse him of hypocricy based on the information we are given. Likewise, Koreans do own and operate non-Korean-food restaurants. But we cannot accuse them of hypocricy based on the fact that a Korean author writes an article condemning such things.
I can understand speaking of “inconsistencies” on the level of news organizations, the Chosun Ilbo in this case. But the same thinking seems unacceptable when applied to an entire population of people. Even if used as a lazy shorthand for comments, the language (”Koreans are hypocritical”) is worth questioning. I have never known a Korean who owns a Japanese restaurant, but I highly doubt such a person is among the same group of individuals complaining about foreigners selling Korean food.
BTW, fallacy of neccesity appears to be a fallacy of ambiguity involving the word “neccesarily” in the premises and conclusion of an argument. Wiki gives this example:
a) Bachelors are necessarily unmarried.
b) John is a bachelor.
Therefore, c) John is necessarily unmarried.
I’d say, the error in the above thinking lies in the fact that premise a is a second-order statement while premise b is not. Both premises presume conditions which should be made explicit but are not, the language is left ambiguous and open to the kind of mixing and matching that occurs for the conclusion, and as a result different meanings tend to be confused. “Neccesarily unmarried” is an analytical exposition of the word bachelor, whereas as a part of a statement about a person, it may be taken to mean something very different.
#81,
You forgot ‘Korean C’, the one who couldn’t give a damn about what is being served in a Japanese restaurant halfway around the world. I’d be willing to bet this would describe the vast majority of Koreans.