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	<title>Comments on: English Education Policy? Contentious?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat,  5 Jul 2008 12:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: yoosr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132359</link>
		<dc:creator>yoosr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132359</guid>
		<description>From a non-native speaker point-of-view, English (and its sub-varieties), as it is spoken/written, should ideally be a language that is 'alive' and it needs to evolve with the context in which it is used - for the purpose of effective communication.

For e.g., there is no point in speaking clipped, standard English, British Southern English or Standard American English to a (non-native) taxi-driver, if it alienates the speaker from the listener (linguistically).

It will take any hegemonic/homogenous society, with a strong (sometimes misplaced national identity), a long time before it comes to terms with its usage or mastery of the English language. The thing with Koreans in general, is the constant hang-up with what is 'right' (and not with what is meaningful in its context); or what is deemed to be a 'prestigious accent to acquire', with little sensitivity to grammar structure and its appropriate intonation when spoken.

The joy in (English) language learning seems lost, when all its subtlety of humor is traded for the acquisition of an 'idealized' standard of English.

The debate goes on, and I suspect, it will take more than one presidential term to steer English-learning towards an enlightened path. Singapore, where I was raised, took more than a hundred years, and we are still 'working' on it.
These links are worth a read:

#1. http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english/staff/afg/singeh2.html

#2. http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english/staff/afg/freiburg.doc

I am a displaced 4th generation Chinese, once engaged to a Korean, and have trotted through much of the English-speaking countries on the 2 hemispheres; yet, I do not profess to speak or write with the fluency of a native English speaker/writer, haha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a non-native speaker point-of-view, English (and its sub-varieties), as it is spoken/written, should ideally be a language that is &#8216;alive&#8217; and it needs to evolve with the context in which it is used - for the purpose of effective communication.</p>
<p>For e.g., there is no point in speaking clipped, standard English, British Southern English or Standard American English to a (non-native) taxi-driver, if it alienates the speaker from the listener (linguistically).</p>
<p>It will take any hegemonic/homogenous society, with a strong (sometimes misplaced national identity), a long time before it comes to terms with its usage or mastery of the English language. The thing with Koreans in general, is the constant hang-up with what is &#8216;right&#8217; (and not with what is meaningful in its context); or what is deemed to be a &#8216;prestigious accent to acquire&#8217;, with little sensitivity to grammar structure and its appropriate intonation when spoken.</p>
<p>The joy in (English) language learning seems lost, when all its subtlety of humor is traded for the acquisition of an &#8216;idealized&#8217; standard of English.</p>
<p>The debate goes on, and I suspect, it will take more than one presidential term to steer English-learning towards an enlightened path. Singapore, where I was raised, took more than a hundred years, and we are still &#8216;working&#8217; on it.<br />
These links are worth a read:</p>
<p>#1. <a href="http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english/staff/afg/singeh2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english.....ngeh2.html</a></p>
<p>#2. <a href="http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english/staff/afg/freiburg.doc" rel="nofollow">http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english.....eiburg.doc</a></p>
<p>I am a displaced 4th generation Chinese, once engaged to a Korean, and have trotted through much of the English-speaking countries on the 2 hemispheres; yet, I do not profess to speak or write with the fluency of a native English speaker/writer, haha.</p>
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		<title>By: Netizen Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132351</link>
		<dc:creator>Netizen Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132351</guid>
		<description>If Korea had been part of the British Empire, this wouldn't be a problem today. It's all Japan's fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Korea had been part of the British Empire, this wouldn&#8217;t be a problem today. It&#8217;s all Japan&#8217;s fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Netizen Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132350</link>
		<dc:creator>Netizen Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132350</guid>
		<description>I can rest assure you that the Koreans living in the English speaking country that is the US don't really care about learning English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can rest assure you that the Koreans living in the English speaking country that is the US don&#8217;t really care about learning English.</p>
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		<title>By: Wrenchbender</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132347</link>
		<dc:creator>Wrenchbender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132347</guid>
		<description>Zonath, 

It depends in Maylasia. All the Indians speak english in Maylasia. My best friends wife is an Indian Malay and grew up speaking english in the house, along with Hindi, Tamil and Portugese but english is the dominant tounge. The school systems there are split for the 3 main ethnic groups. Malays speak malay except in English classes along with the mathematics and science classes. Whereas the Indians and Chinese go to their prospective schools which are tought in whatever the school wants to teach it in. Most Indians speak english in all classes and the Chinese hold theirs in chinese except again in the math and sciences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zonath, </p>
<p>It depends in Maylasia. All the Indians speak english in Maylasia. My best friends wife is an Indian Malay and grew up speaking english in the house, along with Hindi, Tamil and Portugese but english is the dominant tounge. The school systems there are split for the 3 main ethnic groups. Malays speak malay except in English classes along with the mathematics and science classes. Whereas the Indians and Chinese go to their prospective schools which are tought in whatever the school wants to teach it in. Most Indians speak english in all classes and the Chinese hold theirs in chinese except again in the math and sciences.</p>
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		<title>By: Jing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132346</link>
		<dc:creator>Jing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132346</guid>
		<description>The average Finn happens to be the biggest redneck in Europe. Despite being right next door to Norway and Sweden, Finnland is not populated by cosmopolitan euroweeny sophisticates but rather the equivalent of cousin Jethro who is infatuated with the monster truck rally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The average Finn happens to be the biggest redneck in Europe. Despite being right next door to Norway and Sweden, Finnland is not populated by cosmopolitan euroweeny sophisticates but rather the equivalent of cousin Jethro who is infatuated with the monster truck rally.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132339</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132339</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There is a significant English-speaking Chinese population in Malaysia and their income level is also significantly higher than the rest of the non-English speaking ones.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I wonder, though, whether the ability to speak English is a cause of, or a result of, their success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There is a significant English-speaking Chinese population in Malaysia and their income level is also significantly higher than the rest of the non-English speaking ones.</p></blockquote>
<p>I wonder, though, whether the ability to speak English is a cause of, or a result of, their success.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132319</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132319</guid>
		<description>The average Finn speaks better English than many South Africans (or, for that matter, some Americans). The average Chinese person doesn't speak English. The 90%-percentile English-speaking Finn has the fluency of a well-educated Brit or American (or Aussie, New Zealander, Canadian). The 90%-percentile English-speaking Chinese (this is out of all of all Chinese who've "learned" English) is probably on the level of an elementary- or middle-schooler from one of these countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The average Finn speaks better English than many South Africans (or, for that matter, some Americans). The average Chinese person doesn&#8217;t speak English. The 90%-percentile English-speaking Finn has the fluency of a well-educated Brit or American (or Aussie, New Zealander, Canadian). The 90%-percentile English-speaking Chinese (this is out of all of all Chinese who&#8217;ve &#8220;learned&#8221; English) is probably on the level of an elementary- or middle-schooler from one of these countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Linkd</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132305</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132305</guid>
		<description>There are two Englishes; one public, one private. The public English is provided by the government as a public service along with the rest of one’s education in math, science, history, etc. This English is seen as an entitlement, a right. Citizens see it as a government’s duty to provide this English, along with basic health care, policing, utilities, and so on. 

Then there’s the private English, which is a consumer product, and which must compete for its share of the consumer’s discretionary spending. This product is much in demand in Korea.

The story about the Pakistani TV show is salient. So many countries have done pretty well at achieving a high level of English fluency with only the public system of delivery. Korea has failed utterly, over the course of decades, to provide a public English product that meets demand. In the face of this failure, it distorts the situation by refusing to allow its citizens reasonable access to quality private English. Foreign teachers are excluded by hostile immigration policies. Foreign schools are excluded by laws that require certification-granting institutions to be non-profit. English customers are berated by their own government. 

It’s totally fucked. The demand for English is very high because it is seen as absolutely essential for getting a good job and earning a decent living. The public doesn’t see English as a luxury product; they see it as being equally crucial for personal advancement as literacy and numeracy. That is, they see it as a human right. Because it’s a right, like other rights, everyone must have equal access to that right. The public will not tolerate unequal distribution of rights. The government must take the lead in ensuring equal rights for all. But in the case of English – complete failure. In Reagan’s immortal words &lt;i&gt;“Government is not the solution to the problem, government &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; the problem.&lt;/i&gt; 

And so we have private English, in a grotesquely distorted market. LMB’s $4billion will achieve nothing measurable during his time in office. Read my lips. NOTHING. Korea’s public English is too far behind, too completely messed up. The only hope is full market liberalization. That won’t happen. That means there’s no hope. 

Teachers: raise your prices. Demand more money. You don’t have to subsidize this disaster by working for 2.5 mil. The best thing you can do to help Koreans learn English in the long term is to enrich yourselves now with huge wage demands and thereby force this current travesty to a quicker demise. It’s the right thing to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two Englishes; one public, one private. The public English is provided by the government as a public service along with the rest of one’s education in math, science, history, etc. This English is seen as an entitlement, a right. Citizens see it as a government’s duty to provide this English, along with basic health care, policing, utilities, and so on. </p>
<p>Then there’s the private English, which is a consumer product, and which must compete for its share of the consumer’s discretionary spending. This product is much in demand in Korea.</p>
<p>The story about the Pakistani TV show is salient. So many countries have done pretty well at achieving a high level of English fluency with only the public system of delivery. Korea has failed utterly, over the course of decades, to provide a public English product that meets demand. In the face of this failure, it distorts the situation by refusing to allow its citizens reasonable access to quality private English. Foreign teachers are excluded by hostile immigration policies. Foreign schools are excluded by laws that require certification-granting institutions to be non-profit. English customers are berated by their own government. </p>
<p>It’s totally fucked. The demand for English is very high because it is seen as absolutely essential for getting a good job and earning a decent living. The public doesn’t see English as a luxury product; they see it as being equally crucial for personal advancement as literacy and numeracy. That is, they see it as a human right. Because it’s a right, like other rights, everyone must have equal access to that right. The public will not tolerate unequal distribution of rights. The government must take the lead in ensuring equal rights for all. But in the case of English – complete failure. In Reagan’s immortal words <i>“Government is not the solution to the problem, government <b>is</b> the problem.</i> </p>
<p>And so we have private English, in a grotesquely distorted market. LMB’s $4billion will achieve nothing measurable during his time in office. Read my lips. NOTHING. Korea’s public English is too far behind, too completely messed up. The only hope is full market liberalization. That won’t happen. That means there’s no hope. </p>
<p>Teachers: raise your prices. Demand more money. You don’t have to subsidize this disaster by working for 2.5 mil. The best thing you can do to help Koreans learn English in the long term is to enrich yourselves now with huge wage demands and thereby force this current travesty to a quicker demise. It’s the right thing to do.</p>
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		<title>By: hitest</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132291</link>
		<dc:creator>hitest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132291</guid>
		<description>Grant it, the majority of Koreans current don't use English (perhaps some because they can't) the idea of education is to prepare for the (uncertain)future. Education is suppose to give students knowledge, skills and the ability to think well and be creative. I certainly can't say that much of what I learned in public schools is of tangable use to me today.

Korean's spend trillions of Wan already on private English education despite any claim they will profit from the investment in anyway other than doing better on university enterance exams and the consequences there-after. Mal-aligned or not, the idea is to improve public school English education to decrease the burden of expensive private English education. One can hardly argue against the fact that it does need some overhauling, nor can one argue against the fact that too many Korean families are economically burdened with their attempts to make up for the short-comings of the public school English education program.

Even if the new plan works, what exactly will the cost benefit analysis reveal? There's the 4 trillion Wan question. The 4 trillion Wan five year plan is a drop in the bucket compared to what parents will spend over the next 5 years privately, so "English worshipping" or not, it seems to have some basis for merit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant it, the majority of Koreans current don&#8217;t use English (perhaps some because they can&#8217;t) the idea of education is to prepare for the (uncertain)future. Education is suppose to give students knowledge, skills and the ability to think well and be creative. I certainly can&#8217;t say that much of what I learned in public schools is of tangable use to me today.</p>
<p>Korean&#8217;s spend trillions of Wan already on private English education despite any claim they will profit from the investment in anyway other than doing better on university enterance exams and the consequences there-after. Mal-aligned or not, the idea is to improve public school English education to decrease the burden of expensive private English education. One can hardly argue against the fact that it does need some overhauling, nor can one argue against the fact that too many Korean families are economically burdened with their attempts to make up for the short-comings of the public school English education program.</p>
<p>Even if the new plan works, what exactly will the cost benefit analysis reveal? There&#8217;s the 4 trillion Wan question. The 4 trillion Wan five year plan is a drop in the bucket compared to what parents will spend over the next 5 years privately, so &#8220;English worshipping&#8221; or not, it seems to have some basis for merit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jens-Olaf</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132290</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens-Olaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2008/01/31/english-education-policy-contentious/#comment-132290</guid>
		<description>Random observation about Pakistani who are Koreans now in Gimhae:
Sometimes I drop by in a pub running by Koreans (Pakistani) early evening. Around 7 pm without customers they are watching their (Pakistan) news channels on a huge screen. The political debates in Pakistan are sometimes half in English half in Urdu. One of the saff explained to me that they have English education from the first grade. And they can talk in English. As adults. I got the feeling they are more fluent then the average German could be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Random observation about Pakistani who are Koreans now in Gimhae:<br />
Sometimes I drop by in a pub running by Koreans (Pakistani) early evening. Around 7 pm without customers they are watching their (Pakistan) news channels on a huge screen. The political debates in Pakistan are sometimes half in English half in Urdu. One of the saff explained to me that they have English education from the first grade. And they can talk in English. As adults. I got the feeling they are more fluent then the average German could be.</p>
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