Apparently Korean banks play all sorts of games in either giving or denying ATM/Credit cards to foreigners in Korea. Some banks even go as far as to claim they can not issue one due to a law or regulation — which apparently does not exist — even though one may have all of their money in the bank that is denying them a card. Read the full Joongang Ilbo article here.
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Just a tip to R. Elgin and all others posting links to the JoongAng Daily — it is inaccessible from a Mac. For some reason, the JoonAng feels it necessary to present its content via an ActiveX control which requires the user be on a Windows PC.
For JoongAng stories, a cut-and-paste of the content would be much appreciated.
You can view it with Firefox or Camino though, just not Safari.
So is there any punishment for these banks that lie to one’s face and say that there is a law that says they can’t give foreigners bank cards, or can nothing be done?
I had a similar situation once in Japan where the bank told me I wasn’t allowed to have a bank account at all period as a foreigner. After 2 hours of demanding to be show said non-existent law I went to city hall and told them what was up. Got a nice apology phone call the next day, but frankly I would have rather seen the bank sued into oblivion.
The fascinating thing is the way even branches of the same bank follow different policies. Shades of the Korean immigration authorities. What is it in Korean organizational culture that prevents consistency?
Robert, two words: Woori Bank. If you want to get a debit card fast and without hassle, go to this bank. I even had them open up an account for me with their US branch in California. I only need to visit their branch their to complete the transaction.
All other banks here are just a bunch of BS.
Littlebrownasian is right, they gave me no hassles either.
Do Woori, be happy.
That Joongang piece is the most accurate article I’ve seen yet on this issue.
A Woori rep in California recently told me about their perplexing but nice policy of free wires under $100 between your Korean to your US Woori accnt. The exchange rate is still the usual rape, however.
Brendon, would it be possible to sue a bank if say you suddenly find yourself unable to access your money while abroad? They freeze me bank account whenever the balance on my credit card is over the amount I have in my bank account, which defeats the purpose of having a credit card.
I wrote about this issue last May for both the Chosun Ilbo and The Korea Times, and also quoted an official from the Ministry of Finance and Economy saying that there was no law against issuing int’l debit cards to resident foreigners in Korea, and that the banks here were misinterpreting gov’t policy on this issue.
After the article appeared in The Korea Times, I promptly received an email from the Korea Exchange Bank PR Team threatening to sue me for causing “severe damage to the Bank’s reputation” (that’s a direct quite).
I wonder if the journalist and editor from the JoongAng Daily will get a free pass from any similar legal threats because, well, “they’re Korean”?
Welcome to the Hubcap of Asia!
The law; I would not say that it does not exists, because I specifically remember reading in the newspaper when it came out and thinking “Wow, what a load of horseshit”. Now that I think about it, you may have even blogged about it.
Woori bank: These guys were very accommodating, they even invented a foreign registration number for me when I was a student here and didn’t have one.
Kookmin: I sat down with a clerk one day and explained to her: look I have to go overseas on business. I live here, my job is here, my finances are here, I need to be able to access my finances when I leave. They immediately set up a credit card for me, but it was one that required a special deposit be set aside from my account, and that deposit would be my limit. (so it is essentially a check card, disguised as a credit card)
Shinhan will give you a real one, and I have a foreign co-worker who has an account there and they gave him a card with out any deposit. I have the application on my desk as I write.
SC 1st bank is also great, supposedly they will give you a loan to boot. But I don’t know how long that will last. Their lower employee turnover rate is very high and the unions have demoralized all the foreign upper management, most of whom threw up their hands and went to more sane places in Asia.
A buddy of mine in Busan just got a Samsung American Express card. I was quite SHOCKED!
And you know this how?
For the record, the same Hana branch in Chongno that denied me an int’l debit card last year had no problem giving me a Visa credit card a few months later. I thought that was pretty funny.
Perhaps it all just depends on whether your teller got taken out to a nice dinner at Bennigan’s the previous evening by her boyfriend?
They do this using your passport number and it only works in their internal system.
“Just a tip to R. Elgin and all others posting links to the JoongAng Daily — it is inaccessible from a Mac.”
As a Mac user myself, I have also noticed that many Korean Web sites are not fully Mac-compatible. Indeed, I had to install a Windows OS (along with my Mac OS) on my computer, just because I knew how Mac-unfriendly it is here and didn’t want to limit myself.
In my opinion, this is related to the bank card issue because it is yet another indication that Korea is just not up to world standards.
Welcome to the Hubcap of Asia!
Peter Pan writes:
Thanks for this tip, Peter Pan. I have these browsers, of course, but prefer Safari.
SomeguyinKorea writes:
This is a perennial question: My right to [whatever] has been infringed by The Man here in Korea! Can one sue The Man?
Anyone can sue anybody else for any reason here in Korea. Your claim need not even be backed with evidence, or logic.
For claims up to W20 million you don’t even have to hire a lawyer. If you can scrawl out a complaint in the Korean language, and are prepared to pay a few million won in filing fees and potential court costs for the opponent, you’re in business.
Zero investment in staff training; all focus is instead on control of accessions. Once in the gate, talented employees are generally thrown to the wolves. Check the last sentence in this JoongAng Daily story reporting Korean employees’ dissatisfaction with their leadership.
#11, I too have a Samsung credit card (the one with Asiana mileage accrual benefits)! After having this card since 2002, I’ve noticed some changes recently on their service:
1. They now have a special English menu on their online service (didn’t have this until early last year). It’s basically limited to 3 items (for now I guess): local transactions, overseas transactions and balance statement. I look forward to their online service getting more of the features of their hangul equivalent.
2. They now have a special hotline that will answer you in English (the number is 02-2000-8438). The receptionist is very smart and friendly.
3. They’ve recently upgraded my account to Premium (!), which I find very rare for ordinary foreigner office workers in Korea like me (or so I think).
Have tried applying from all other credit card companies (LG, Hyundai, BC, etc.) and they ALL denied me except Samsungcard. So I give plenty of kudos to Samsungcard for making my life a lot easier in Korea.
“Zero investment in staff training.”
Brendon, you know that’s just not true. Surely you’ve heard of “membership training”?
When it comes to long weekends getting wasted in the countryside, Korean employees are well up to snuff!
Baeksu has inadvertently hit upon what I think is essential to understanding Carr’s linked survey: In my experience, Korean managers do not have control of any resources. They can’t hire their own teams, or fire them. They can’t requisition new equipment, control their own budgets, or make agreements with outside suppliers. The only resources they actually control are the credit cards that pay for 회식 and other drinking events.
I think that goes a long way to explaining why foreign managers show more Leadership. They are seen to control more resources, which requires more decision-making.
A couple of weeks ago I confirmed this with KEB when I asked if my tattered international ATM card would be replaced with a domestic-only one and the clerk answered in the affirmative. I’ll have to take the existing one to failure, and then switch banks (probably Woori, yes?). And to think I missed a chance to bring this up with KEB’s CEO the other day.
This kind of retrograde policy doesn’t help when it comes to foreign executives (who also can’t use their crackberries) taking this place seriously.
#16,
A couple of million won in filing fees? ‘The Man’ did a good job of creating a system to protect itself.
The filing fee depends on the claim amount. It’s much more likely that the couple million won is encountered when the court orders you to compensate the bank for wasting everyone’s time.
Wedge, this is what a teller at Worry Eunhaeng in Kwanghwamun told me after I asked why they wouldn’t issue int’l debit cards to foreigners here: “It’s because we think that foreigners in Korea only need to use a Korean bank while they’re in Korea!”
Brilliant!
The Hana in Ulchiro-1-ga, however, was most helpful and gave me an int’l debit card in 15 minutes flat. I keep saying that if all one million expats here moved all their business over to Hana or Nonghyup (the only other local bank that seems to consistently offer int’l debit cards to foreigners), that would be the most effective way to send a message to the other discriminatory banks here.
#23,
Calm down. I just wanted to know if it was legal for the bank to do that.
A number of nations have controls on their own currency. I believe that the PRC, until recently (or maybe the practice continues) would only allow foreigners to remit a certain percentage of their RMB-denominated earnings overseas — the rest had to be kept (saved or spent) in China. Regardless of the fact that it was the foreigners’ own money.
#26,
Touche. When I visited Beijing last August, I opened a bank account in Bank of China there. The good news is, it only takes a couple of minutes to open up one, and you only need to bring your passport with you. The bad news is, they restrict withdrawals from outside of China, so my only workaround for now (which fortunately was advised to me by fellow Filipinos living there), is to do local bank transfers to overseas remittance centers there.
i’m very happy to read this article and the subsequent comments here with all the helpful info because i’d just given up on ever having normal banking relations and services here in this country.
i do have a question, though, that someone might be kind enough to answer:
my wife and i like to shop online a lot at sites back in the UK or the US, but we always have to use my american-bank issued wells fargo debit card to make purchases because neither of our korean cards (debit or credit) works at these sites.
do any of these int’l debit cards that you guys are championing (woori, hana, nonghyup) work when doing online shopping at web sites other than korean ones? does anyone know for sure?
This whole $10,000 per overseas trip thing is a farce in the first place. What’s to stop you from exchanging six-inch bundles of man notes for Franklins at the Itaewon lingerie shops, which are by the way official exchange places now, and then taking said dollars to your local bank to open a dollar account? Not to mention doing currency swaps with people who get paid in dollars (i.e. those related to the base)? Where there’s a will, there are five ways.
Oops, don’t let any MOFErs see this.
#28: Would be good to know. I’ve been maintaining U.S. bank credit cards for big purchases and for U.S.-based internet shopping.
Dissidentdave, my Hana Visa credit card works fine on sites like Amazon and PayPal. Samsung also actively seeks credit card customers among foreign instructors at local universities so if you are a professional here they may also try to sort you out.
Never tried using my int’l debit card on Amazon, etc., and wonder if that would work? I thought “check cards” only worked at brick-and-mortar shops? Does anyone else know more about this issue?
I think I’ve been in the Orient too long…
#28,
Unfortunately I only use my Samsung credit card for overseas transactions (ps. forgot to credit them too for allowing me to open a Paypal account in 2003). Never had a problem with their service. For debit cards, I currently have a KEB local card that has the PLUS logo on it, so I use it to withdraw money when I’m overseas (have used it in the Philippines, Beijing, San Jose CA).
IMHO stay away from getting a credit card that’s directly tied up with a bank. Better get one that’s independent (ie. Samsung, LG, Hyundai, etc.). They’ll give you less trouble than the banks.
How come none of the Americans seems to use the venerable American bank in Korea, the Citi Bank?
I’ve used different Korean credit cards on amazon.com and many other U.S. websites with no problem.
On the other hand, I’ve recently had difficulty using U.S.-bank issued credit cards on some U.S. sites, as they check your card billing information with your ZIP code — because I have a Korean billing address. I noticed this too with U.S. gas station PoP installations.
In regard to the USD10,000 limit per overseas trip, it may be nonsensical and capable of workaround, but it is the law. If, though, by “currency swap”, you mean an actual FX swap, then their are various reporting hoops to go through to do that. Also, you cannot get a debit or credit card tied to a foreign currency account at a Korean bank.
As someone else noted, setting up a PayPal account linked to a Korean credit card is also possible, although you obviously are tied to whatever the non-KRW limit of your card is.
dogbertt,
Therein lies the problem, so having a second or third backup account at Paypal is a good thing to do. Problem is, our very foreigner-friendly Korean government has since last year imposed very strict rules regarding the usage of local banks for overseas services (like Paypal), such that Korean users have to use their alien registration numbers in order to withdraw/add funds from/to their Paypal account.
The problem is, if you try to use your number on Paypal, the backtrack to the government’s systems won’t recognize it (familiar story, anyone?). So now my Koraen bank account on Paypal is as useful as wet tissue paper. Good thing for the credit card, though, it’s still accepted.
#29,
There actually are international laws regarding how much you’re able to send to another country (or even bring with you on an airline trip), which has something to do with money laundering laws. Each country has its own limits, I guess Korea is just imposing theirs, though the specifics are somewhat gray.
In the Philippines for example, if one tries to send money over $1,000 daily (dunno if they’ve raised this yet), that transaction shall be subject to investigation by the account holder’s PI bank. Obviously, one $10,000 transaction (unless you’re a business entity) will raise a big red flag.
The only time I’ve had trouble using my credit card was when I was having it validated by Paypal. Because of the time difference, they had a bit of a hard time getting an answer from the credit card company in Korea. At first, the Korean company refused their request (I think someone saw the romanized address and had the knee-jerk reaction of denying the request). I had to call them up and complain.
Getting international bank cards or credit cards in Korea is a matter of not giving up the first time (or, the first few times) you get gunned down. (When you think about it, the same is often true for finding a job, a date, getting into grad school, or whatever. It may not be fair, but if you don’t try, you’re not going to get what you want.)
I got a Kookmin Visa last year, but my regular branch wouldn’t do it. I’d had one in the past, without so much as a hint of a problem, but when it expired it was not renewed. Even with an F-5 visa, university position, my wife’s income, etc. they claimed that it was against KB policy to issue me a card. So, I walked to the KB branch just down the street and was approved almost immediately. Great service, very professional, and seemingly not bound by a policy that didn’t officially exist. (KB just off the north end of Daehangno, by the way.)
As has been mentioned, Samsung American Express is another good bet. If you work in a university or college, there’s a good chance they’ve already been by your office. If not, I’m fairly certain a rep would be happy to head over to your place of work to sign you up. Unlike most cards, it is also good for shopping at COSTCO (who, as you may know, generally prefer cash.)
#33: Citibank sucks in many, many ways. Just because it’s “American” doesn’t make it good.
#34: I’m talking about informal currency swaps between people who have dollars and need won and people who have won and need dollars.
#12) I’ve known several employees fo that bank. Two of whom were sent from branches overseas to oversee the operation during the merger. They just got frustrated and left because of the unions and the shenanigans they pulled. The standard stuff, they set up a tent in the main lobby and manned it for what seemed like half a year, hung propaganda everywhere, shouted antiforeigner rhetoric, would walk into the offices and dump bags of shredded paper from the shredders (the real fine type) on the foreign employees desks etc… they just threw their hands up and left.
I know another who works in a lower department, whose been there less than a year but is still the most senior person in their department. I call that a high turnover.
#14) Yes, you are entirely correct. You’ve have the same experience there?
got a BC/Visa international card issued from Hana Bank when I arrived here. I pay on the 1st of month m the amount I spent between 16th of month m-2 and 15th of month m-1. convenient as paycheck comes in on the 25th.
have 2 limits: one in KRW, one in “other currencies” expressed in USD.
the only problem is that after more than 3 years, there’s still no one understanding english at my Hana Bank branch (a pretty big one if not the biggest). I still have to use hands & other parts of my body in original ways to express my will of conducting even the most basic operation (yes, my command of the korean language is poorer than my body language, I admit and take full responsibility).
but that apart, I never had any major issue (maybe not being able to use the card abroad a couple of times because I passed the limit, but that’s my mistake, not the bank’s). even managed to set up several currencies account (USD / EUR), time deposits in KRW or USD.
I have never used their online services, but I believe it’s nonexistant in english, so useless for me.
if you speak a bit of korean, I could recommend Hana/BC for “basic” banking.
The Citibank strike of the 1990s is still remembered in bank circles for its xenophobic virulence. Talk to a foreign Citibanker even today and they flinch at the mention of Korea.
@41) That’s interesting. Any other good anecdotes?
In any case, if you have a Koran credit card, check to see if they will freeze your bank account if you have less money in it than the amount on your credit card bill. That’s what they did when I was overseas on business for two months a few years back…and that’s despite the fact that the bill was a lot less than limit on my card.
I’m considering asking them to stop taking payments out of my account. Hopefully, that will take care of that problem.
#45,
Yeah, I think that kind of policy on bank balances is somewhat preposterous. What’s the point of getting a credit card if you have to match that with cash on your bank account every time? Isnt’ that what debit cards are for?
UPDATE: just got my billing statement from Samsung Card today and…OMG…it’s all in English! Even the online service is now updated, with full English menus and items! How cool is that?
#40, #43
During the 90’s, Westpac, one of Australia’s major banks, had a similar problem: although the bank, I think, had just one branch operation, it was fed up by the bitter and prolonged union strike, sold it to another foreign bank and left the country. Obviously Korean governments during the last 10 years or so learned nothing. Hopefully the new government will do something about the union culture.
To King Baeksu #9. The editor of the JoongAng Daily is not Korean. He’s American.
#16,
Here I am correcting the law fella, anyone can file a criminal complaint for…yes, that’s correct nothing at all. It’s free! Minus any translation fees of course. Civil court is another matter. I was in civil court for about 2 years, and had fees(court/translation/interpretaion) that reached approx. 1.3 million Won. That’s 700,000 Won less than what the fella stated. I didn’t hire/have to pay a law fella.
#45 - As I send the bulk of my paycheck to the family account managed by my wife, I often have very little in my account for most of the month. Credit cards work just fine, even when the amount I’ve spent exceeds the bank balance. At least with the KB card and Samsung AmEx, the balance in one’s bank account doesn’t seem to be an issue.
Then again, as is the theme here, it doesn’t mean that this would be the case with everyone else.
#51 - Sorry, let me clarify something: I need to have enough to cover it by the time the next bill comes up, but I’ve arranged it so that it follows payday by just a couple of days.
“Hana or Nonghyup (the only other local bank that seems to consistently offer int’l debit cards to foreigners),”
Seconded. Samsung Card, too. KEB Expat if you have a uni or above job.
Oh, and LG Telecom and Hanaro Telecom rock.
I make no secret of the fact you don’t have to hire/pay a law fella. For guys like you, I recommend not hiring a law fella.
I may be misremembering my Lionel Hutz, but I believe the proper terminology is “law-talkin’ fella”.
#24
I’m sorry to report that not all Hana Bank branches are as nice as that at Ulchiro 1-ga.
Yesterday, after having been denied a replacement for my tattered but working International ATM at KB 국민 Bank, I went with my wife to the Hana branch here in Pohang where I also have an account. Before going, my wife had the idea of posting a question on the Ministry of Finance and Economy website regarding the claimed existence of a law blocking foreigners from getting debit cards that work abroad. To our delight, we received the response that no such law exists, and that any banks claiming the existence of any such law are clearly mistaken. As a precaution, we brought a printout of this response with us to the Hana branch.
As we had feared, Hana bank said that I was ineligible for an International debit card. When we asked why, as if reading from a script, they cited the Foreign Exchange Law (외환관리법) and claimed that there was nothing they could do about it. Careful not to show any emotion, we asked if they could verify this with their head office in Seoul by telephone. Again, the same response: the Foreign Exchange Law prohibits banks from issuing a debit card to any foreigner. We had hoped that showing them the print out of the response we received from MOFE we would receive a more favorable response, but alas, we didn’t.
Today, my wife talked to MOFE by phone directly. She was told that this is such a problem that “after Seollal” a meeting will be convened with representatives of all of Korea’s banks to explain its policy on the issue of providing foreigner residents of Korea with an International ATM card. MOFE explained that apparently the banks are required to limit foreign withdrawals to the equivalent of $10,000, but because their ATM computer system has no way of limiting the amount of overseas withdrawals, they have taken the drastic step of blocking foreigner access to their money.
I am sorry to hear that about Kookmin since I keep a good amount of money with them. I did talk to them two days ago about setting up a Mastercard securecode for certain internet transactions and the VIP account representative had never heard of such. I had to show her the mastercard webpage that detailed such a thing but, for now, it appears that Korea is not one of the countries that participates in such, which is very odd.
I suspect that the entire banking system in Korea is in need of a drastic overhaul to improve its security and record keeping standards as well.
I have a BC Mastercard that I have set up a secure code for for Internet transactions outside Korea. There is a section of the BC Card website that explains it and enables it, but it is in Korean.
No.
“Today, my wife talked to MOFE by phone directly. She was told that this is such a problem that “after Seollal” a meeting will be convened with representatives of all of Korea’s banks to explain its policy on the issue of providing foreigner residents of Korea with an International ATM card.”
KimSuBok, such a meeting already occurred on 22 June 2007. Here is what my contact at MOFE told me the next day:
“Yesterday I corrected the banks’ misunderstanding about our regulation system. I told them very clearly that they don’t have to worry about issuing international debit cards to resident foreigners in Korea, and they all said that they understood our policy.
“However, whether or not they change their own policy in this issue is their decision, and we [at the MOFE] cannot force them to issue int’l cash cards to foreigners or make it compulsory because it is their own internal business policy.
“Every bank has the right to accept or reject new customers, so even though there is no gov’t regulation against issuing int’l cash cards to foreigners, it depends on their own internal business policy whether they choose to do so or not, and we have to respect their business policy.”
The banks are clearly dragging their feet here.
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[...] morning The Marmot posted a link to a great article about expat banking in Korea. No tips on how to deal with the difficulties, but [...]