This is already getting some play in the comment section, but it really deserves a separate post.
Two very smart people from MIT have turned up research results that would seem to suggest that Americans and East Asians may, in fact, have different brain activity patterns:
Neuroscientists Trey Hedden and John Gabrieli of MIT’s McGovern Institute for Brain Research asked Americans and East Asians to solve basic shape puzzles while in a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scanner. They found that both groups could successfully complete the tasks, but American brains had to work harder at relative judgments, while East Asian brains found absolute judgments more challenging.
Previous psychology research has shown that American culture focuses on the individual and values independence, while East Asian culture is more community-focused and emphasizes seeing people and objects in context. This study provides the first neurological evidence that these cultural differences extend to brain activity patterns.
“It’s kind of obvious if you look at ads and movies,” Gabrieli told LiveScience. “You can tell that East Asian cultures emphasize interdependence and the U.S. ads all say things like, ‘Be yourself, you’re number one, pursue your goals.’ But how deep does this go? Does it really influence the way you perceive the world in the most basic way? It’s very striking that what seems to be a social perspective within the culture drives all the way to perceptual judgment.”
The money quote?
“One question was, when people see the line and box, do they look different all the way, starting at your retina?” Gabrieli said. “Or do you see the same thing to start with but then your mind focuses on one dimension or another. These data indicate that it’s at that later stage. In parts of the brain that are involved in early vision, we didn’t see a difference. Rather we saw a difference in higher-processing brain areas. People from different cultures don’t see the world differently, but they think differently about what they see.”
Fascinating stuff.
42 Comments
I mean, it’s pretty obvious that there will be some cultural differences in the way people view certain things. Just remember the first time you saw hangul and how you processed the imagery of it.
An interesting follow-up would be a study of first, 1.5, second and third generation east-Asian immigrants to the States to see how they comepare with the east-Asian and American base studies.
The point of the research was not that there are cultural differences, but that culture, like language, shapes the brain’s wiring.
Where were all of these East Asians from? Japan? Korea? And what about the Americans? West Virginia? Boston?
Sounds like a bunch of pseudo-science in search of cliche verification.
Actually, a good book to sift through is ‘The Geography of Thought’ which, on a certain level, tries to unlock some of the discrepencies between Western and Eastern thought. Genetic make up aside, you’ll be surprised to know that there is a great deal difference not only in which both halves of the world conduct their own methods of deductive reasoning but also the way in which they view their existence in the surrounding environment… which pretty much filters in to everything they do…
This is another great book too:
http://www.amazon.com/Asians-T.....amp;sr=8-3
#3,
I should have rephrased that as differences due to culture. Returning to my example, when I first began learning Korean I saw circles, squares, and the letter T. Now I see sounds and ideas.
’second and third generation east-Asian immigrants to the States to see how they comepare with the east-Asian and American base studies.’
so, second and third generation remain immigrants in your mind? may i ask you at what point your family stopped being immigrants from europe?
@8 my family stopped being German immigrants when they stopped posting on English language blogs in Germany (from America) about how much they hate all expats in Germany. And when they gave up their European motherlands’ cultures and thought of themselves as Americans. And when they bred with people of non-German heritages.
just kidding buddy. you are over-reacting there, pawi, looking for something out of nothing. I think everyone else knows what he meant and that there was nothing implied.
Are you just looking for an argument? If so, just go to the weekend’s open thread and put up another race-baiting link and complaint like last week. Or just go to bed, it’s getting pretty late in the USA there, immigrant.
is your name andy jackson?
I believe it’s more than cultural. We are simply different biologically. For example. Caucasion people seem to love very rich, extremely sweet deserts. Asians on the other hand, do not like very sweet deserts. Asians often wonder how anyone can enjoy eating some of the cakes covered in sugary icings. Different brain patterns make one group not get enough of it, while the other group is repulsed by it. This is one reason why in Asian food, treats are mildly sweet.
You ask a valid question. “Culture” is not only about nationality but also locality and socioeconomic class.
In America, it’s not only Caucasian people who like sweets, and Korean tastes are changing. Adults are not fond of sugary snacks, but unfortunately, their kids are turning into sugar junkies by gobbling chocopies, peperos, sodas, and the like. Food preferences are partly innate, partly influenced by what is available. Sugar is like hot peppers in that the palate can become desensitized to sweetness and require more.
Actually, Pawi asked a valid question.
I have always admired the Asian way of thinking, at least of how I learned about it from dudes like D.T. Suzuki, Alan Watts and Jung. Dr. Watts classified three world views: the Judeo-Christian world view, where things were created by an outside dude; the Hindu worldview, in which folks are all acting parts in the great play of Brahma; and the Oriental worldview, where humans on the earth are as natural a growth as apples on the tree. Then again, I read these things in English.
In the case of the average Korean judge, I think you have to wonder if their brains work at all.
Case and point:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....80039.html
Unbelievable!
Nihonjinron from America?
There’s a long body of accepted experimental research that has supported the differences in thinking - independent vs. interdependent. Americans and East Asians are basically on opposite ends of the spectrum with traditional Europeans showing a little less pronounced “Western” thinking. East Indians, influenced by Western thinking, exhibit traits of both depending on context.
Every indication is that these are social and not biological differences. Naturally, this can exert a biological effect.
“The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently” is a good read.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....02400.html
They sounded like they were bored.
#11…I agree which always makes the long lines of Koreans at Krispy Kreme Donuts so puzzling.
Interesting article. As someone who was raised in the states but in an “Eastern” household I have to say that genes play zero influence on said thinking patterns. Anyone who thinks that Big Picture (Eastern) vs. Focused (Western) thinking starts in the womb doesn’t know too much about what it’s like to be raised in a different culture.
The biggest influence is cultural. Westerners come from a Judeo-Christian, Greco-Roman upbringing environment. The Romans, in particular, gave people the respect of the law. Judeo-Christian tradition gave a respect to uncompromising believe in one God and individual access to that one God. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego before King Nebuchadnezzar before they were cast into the fiery furnace and Martin Luther at the Diet at Worms (i.e. the doctrine of Sola Fida and Sola Scriptura).
On the other side in the East you have a Buddist-Daoist and Confucian as well as Absolutist Oriental Despotism tradition (”AOD”). In the AOD tradition, laws are meaningless if the king/emperor changes them. In the western tradition, even kings and emperors were accountable to higher laws (i.e. the Pope, the Bible, the Magna Carta). People in the east did die for principles, but not for esoteric doctrines or laws as they did in the west.
FYI to # 11. When I was a kid, myself and my Korean American friends I ate sugary sweets just as well as my white counterparts. We were absolute candy fiends during Halloween. Of course, as I get older I prefer Asian sweets because they are less sugary and I’m sure I’m not the only adult (Asian or non-Asian) who would not make the switch when given the choice.
A Colombian friend in Korea remarked upon taking his first bite of a soft, pastel New Year’s rice cake, “Dulces tiene que ser dulce.” I bought some for my brother’s family, and they literally spit out the half-chewed rice cakes into the wastebasket and accused me of playing a cruel trick on them. Chinese mid-autumn mooncakes are worse. Traditional Asian sweets are high in refined carbs and low in flavor. The only tasty treat for me was those Korean round honey cookies. However, the ones sold in the supermarket are made with all kinds of nasties I don’t want in my bloodstream.
hey, lady,
regretably,
Koreans didn’t invent Coca-Cola.
and, why don’t you at least try showing sugar content side by side, instead of
random anecdotes?
have some more carrot cake.
gather your thoughts.
try some pumpkin pie.
re-gather your thoughts.
Koreans usually throw that $5 cake from the local US supermarket in the trashcan.
Korean Ho Duk is very sweet and tasty but its too greasy for me. The rice cake thingys are horrible though.
#21…I don’t really understand your point but Koreans did invent 815 Cola and it was just flat liquid sugar. I don’t think they even make it anymore due to lack of sales. It might be the only time in history Koreans consciously chose something Western (Coke) over a competing local product to the point that the local company went out of business.
Which side of the brain do you guys think produces the desire to purchase an orange fake leather sofa?
#8 Point taken.
I should have said (in #2)”An interesting follow-up would be a study of first, 1.5, second and third generation east-Asian-Americans…”
BTW, I am 13th generation English on my mom’s side going back to Edward Newton, who was either born in Virginia in 1630 or came there soon afterwards. So, unless you are American-Indian, all you noobs just have to suck it up.
# 23,
”An interesting follow-up would be a study of first, 1.5, second and third generation east-Asian-Americans…”
Andy, they already did something like that which was highlighted in a related study which can be found in http://www.livescience.com/str.....rican.html
Per article:
“Reinforcing the belief that the differences are cultural, he said, when Asians raised in North America were studied, they were intermediate between native Asians and European-Americans, and sometimes closer to Americans in the way they viewed scenes.”
This would mirror my perceptions also. In some of those test questions / images, I’d give an answer that was more “western” and in others I’d also give an answer that is more “eastern.”
Your child may also develop a more intermediate level of perception depending on where she is raised and how she is educationed, etc.
# 21 and # 22…
Koreans didn’t invent high-fructose corn syrup either. Tit for tat, Japan gave the world the wonders of monosodium glutamate, an equally unhealthy flavoring agent.
Actually, this is a great example of the differences in East Asian and Western lines of thinking demonstrated in methods of flavoring. The West takes a more “direct” or “focused” approach by developing the cheapest possible (and perhaps the most unhealthiest) sweetening ingredient that directly effects the flavor of foods. On the other hand, MSG has no flavor by itself. You taste a teaspoon of HFCS and you will certainly taste something. MSG takes a more “indirect” path to affecting taste by doing virtually nothing to the food itself, but in binding and heightening the taste receptors in our tongues. Thus, the addition of MSG means that food companies can actually use less spices and less quality of ingredients to still have the same perception in taste, hence still saving said food company money. So HFCS and MSG save food companies money, but in different ways.
You know what, cm? I’ve always wondered why Korean bakeries sell garlic bread with sugar on it, like some bizarre misworking of cinammon toast.
On the other hand, I’ve never had sweetened garlic bread in the U.S.
Where does that fit into your theory?
Actually I never said Koreans don’t like sweet or sugar. I said Koreans don’t usually like super sweet.
cm, that is total nonsense. Asians born and raised in North America don’t seem to be predisposed to disliking very sweet food more than caucasians, blacks, hispanics, etc. Furthermore, most young Koreans I see seem to have a sweeter tooth than I did when I was a kid.
One sometimes hears a similar biological - racial, in essence - argument when it comes to language learning or mathematical ability, and it is also utter horseshit.
“One sometimes hears a similar biological - racial, in essence - argument when it comes to language learning or mathematical ability”
Not a biological (i.e. racial) explaination, but there is some evidence that learning Chinese characters (or any other ideographic character sets) helps improve IQ, http://www.sq.4mg.com/Chinese.htm. The main evidence here is in IQ’s of Japanese Americans who know English but don’t know Chinese characters and Singaporean students who do know Chinese characters and are also fluent in English. The Singaporean students do on average three points better on IQ tests. I think the reasoning is that Chinese characters help condition the mind to think of things in terms of symbols and linkages, which apparently improves spatial memory.
I think the fact #11 was meant to be taken with a grain of salt went right over all your heads. He was poking fun at some of the illogical beliefs that are held by a few Koreans. I’ve had that argument before with one of my former co-workers (She’d feed sugar-coated snacks to the kids one moment and reply “Koreans don’t like sweets” whenever I offered her one of the cookies I bought right around the corner).
WangKon936 (in #24)
Thanks for the link.
Besides the possibility that learning Chinese characters improves spatial reasoning, Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese also have an advantage in that Sino-based math and science terminology is much simpler than its Western Latin-Greek counterpart.
“Not a biological (i.e. racial) explaination, but there is some evidence that learning Chinese characters (or any other ideographic character sets) helps improve IQ”
IQ is highly overrated. “Eastern” thinking often draws illogical conclusions from facts. Inferential logic can be rather weak.
That is, naturally, a generalization. There are plenty of Westerners who still cling to the notion of a personal god despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary…Today marks the 35th anniv of Roe vs Wade & look at the turn out in Wash DC.
# 33,
Interesting to note that abortion is down to it’s lowest level SINCE Roe v. Wade.
From my limited personal experience, I’d say that there are both advantages and disadvantages of eastern and western ways of thinking. Westerners tend to get to the point a lot faster and get things done, doing a better job of burrowing through bureaucracy and other barriers. Easterners tend to do better at working out the details and coming up with solutions that are a bit modular and multifaceted. The rub? Analysis paralysis… just look at the Japanese economy which hasn’t really gone anywhere since the late 80’s.
also, most Koreans who first try donuts say it’s too sweet. When you offer them sugared coffee, juice, or milk to drink it with, they look at you as if you’re trying to kill them with sugar.
Come on, dudes. Isn’t this clear evidence that European-American culture is much more fond of sugar?
The donut itself is made with substantial sugar. That’s not enough, though.
Add some jelly or cream of sugar inside. Then, add a frosting layer of more sugar.
Then, drink a sugared beverage to wash it down.
sugar, sugar, sugar.
although, after years and years and years of US life, I like donuts, and coffee.
so do US born and bred Koreans.
Koreans, though, they prefer the Japanese style, less sugary cream-pan, redbean paste-bread, etc.
I know I’m right, and so do you.
there’s always soda pop to go with donuts as well.
soda pop, I suspect, is a mere substitute for beer.
however, it was bitter than beer. Thus, white man decided to sugar it.
How much sugar was needed to make it drinkable?
uh, quite a lot.
also notice that tea in East Asia is not consumed with sugar.
tea in England is consumed with sugar.
coffee is relatively new to East Asia. I suspect, it would have been consumed without sugar.
but, then, it’s the evil, much more powerful twin of the tea leaf, that coffee.
Perhaps not feasible.
Which would explain why Koreans hate doughnuts: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....17086.html
Korean brains were the same as everybody else’s…until the invention of ondol heating. Generations of exposure to low levels of CO have done damage.
#37 - I agree that East Asians don’t tend to add sugar to tea, but while some English drink tea with sugar, many do not. Many take tea with milk or lemon or with nothing added. Also depends on the tea. Orange Pekoe or English Breakfast might be alright with sugar, but Earl Grey perhaps better without.
As for coffee, I usually find myself one of the few at Starbucks or Coffee Bean getting “Coffee of the Day”, to which I add only a little milk. I would say that most Korean customers are going for flavored (i.e. sweetened) coffees. Instant coffee here (”다방” or “mix”) is also loaded with sugar.
coffee is relatively new to East Asia. I suspect, it would have been consumed without sugar.
but, then, it’s the evil, much more powerful twin of the tea leaf, that coffee.
Yeah, this has been depicted somewhat in one of Jet Li’s recent movie Huo Yuan Jia (aka. Fearless).
wjk,
in reading some of your comments on this post, some things have occurred to me.
i believe you are a med student, right? perhaps you’ve stated it before, but what sort of physician are you interesting in being?
if you are going to be a surgeon, i hope you’re not going to use the same stunted, rash, illogical, morally judgmental approach in the operating room as you do here when giving you viewpoint, arguing your side of an issue, or being harshly judgmental toward anyone who
a) smokes dope
b) has sex outside of or before marriage
c) eats sweets and/or puts sugar in his or her tea or coffee
d) criticises korea (even when said criticism might be valid)
e) isn’t conservative
f) doesn’t support the (U.S.) republican party
g) writes in complete sentences and/or paragraph form
h) writes in small caps only
i) doesn’t cheer for the ny mets
j) doesn’t take him- or herself too seriously
good luck in your studies…
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