Korea Times writer David Thiessen thinks the majority of criticism of Korea is “unfair, unjust and untrue,” Westerns think the West superior to the “East,” that foreigners “have themselves to blame for much of what transpires during their sojourn in this country,” that it’s “not right to publicly embarrass or humiliate a nation through forums that are accessed by the population, many of whom are innocent of the charges laid,” and “foreigners need to learn to deal with problems the right way and draw the officials attention to difficulties through the proper methods and a public forum is not such an avenue.” That is to say, I guess, to say foreigners need to learn to do things in the “Eastern” way.
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32 Comments
There are more than a few problems in Korea that do not arise from the objective commentary of non-Koreans and there are more than a few Koreans who would make the same observations as well, for example, illegal advertising banners and the lack of action against such. None of these problems have anything to do with a comparison of “Western” values to “Eastern” values either. Such a contention is ill founded, IMHO.
Also, not all foreigners in Korea are teachers working in some illicit hagwon situation either. The author’s article seems to imply such (?), thus I could not take this article seriously, whose argument has some merit.
I suppose the author was paid for this poor diatribe as well.
It’s funny that on the one hand, the Korea Times can commission respectable pieces from authors such as Professor Lankov, and on the opposite page print grade-school rants like this one and the garbage that Africanist teacher spews from time to time.
I have the right to vote in Korea…Ipso facto, it’s my duty to bitch.
I think Thiessen needs to spend a little less time on Dave’s ESL Negative Circle Jerk.
I prefer his earlier comments on new visa regulations, where he lectures teachers on the importance of honoring the terms of their contracts. No mention of employers having a responsibility to do the same, just as the behavior of a far larger population of anonymous Korean netizens - some of it not exactly enthusiastic about foreigners and things foreign - is ignored in this latest piece.
as poorly written and ungraceful as it is, their are some valid points, and many whities in Korea overwhelmingly feel this way. call it the maturation of those who came aorund world cup time and are still here perhaps. a “tipping point” in the foreign community has been reached, in my opinion, and a lot of people from generation Y are just sick of hearing about kimchee. and yet everyday there are plane-loads full of newbies to perpetuate the “Why do Koreans beat their wives and eat dog?” posts on Dave’s ESL.
furthermore, unlike the post IMF era before world cup when korea was rebooting and kicking the ESL industry into high gear (hence a plethora of new and inexperienced hakwon owners who jerked over many a teacher), the current trend in Korea shows that more foreigners screw over their schools than vice versa. I wish it weren’t true but I see it more often than not.
I wonder what the “whiny Western bitches” who were complaining about the Tell Me dance craze in Korea think about the Soulja Boy dance craze that’s been sweeping America?
This is a CNN video about the latter dance craze:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43QP2zCcE-0
I don’t really care about the topic and just wanted to post the video. But the parrallels are amazing. One would think the news were about Korea.
Well, I think Brian really hit it on the head here:
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.c.....a-boy.html
I gave this some thought and came to this possible conclusion. If I was in a host country with a small, but vocal body of fellow countrymen and many of my countrymen were making a ruckus in their host country that stopped being productive and came to a point where it just became noisy, I’d certainly write about it and ask them to stop whining.
I mean, that ruckus, some of it true, some of it untrue, but ultimately most of it unproductive, would make ME look bad in my host country in addition to being a little embarrassed for my fellow countrymen. This could be what is influencing Thiessen more then the $50 to $80 that the Korean Times probably paid him to write said article.
I’m an American, yet “Soulja Boy” is no more part of my culture than the “Wondergirls” are.
Wow, Soulja Boy…That kid needs to spend a few hours with a drill sergeant…and that choreography…It’s so bad it makes the Wondergirls look like, well, err…Park Jin Young.
WTF is “Soulja” anyway? I’m reminded of “Sister Souljah”, who is famous for having told Bill Clinton blacks should kill white people for a week.
I was merely whining about all the whining that goes on here. Now this guy is whining about my whining? Well, I’d like to whine about his whining about my whining about the whining. STOP WHINING! I can’t hear myself whine.
That, I believe, is an excellent example of dynamic, Korea.
# 6, You say “many,” does that mean more Hagwon owners/Public Schools are scewed over by Native Teachers than vice versa? If not, then what is your point?
In my experience, quite to the contrary of this commentary, the vast majority of foreigners in Korea could offer constructive criticisms but consiously hold back for fear of offending the weak egos of their hosts. It’s an unspoken rule to you simply nod and refrain from objective comments.
The saddest part of this is that it enables the bad habits that continue to hold this country back. Yes, Korea could be great but its cultre of blaming others for one’s own problems is holding it back.
Lately, I watched a famous Korean TV minister discuss what he considers to be Korea’s Achilles heel -jealousy of others. In my analysis he put his finger on one of the key problems of Korea - weak ego.
It becomes instantly apparant to every foreigner in Korea that Koreans are unable to bear criticism although they exhibit a pronounced proclivity for bragging excessively about their culture and leveling unfair criticisms of others.
Of course, the foreigners here will recognize the truth of what I have written above immediately, and will just write it off. So will many of us Kyopos - although some of us will deny it all in a typical kneejerk reaction.
I have lived in the US for half my lifetime - the other half in Korea. The comments about American racism are laughable to begin with - the US is so much further along than the nation of my ancestry that it is needless to even compare. But how much more laughable this is when leveled against foreign residents in Korea. After all, what racist would deliberately live among another race? These are idealistic people who believe they can overcome cultural barriers, and they deserve a lot more credit for the sacrifices they are making to adopt here. In the seventies, I met few foreigners who could speak more than a phrase or two of Korean. This has changed, and the majority of foreign residents do not deserve such unfair criticism.
All this kind of commentary achieves is to further enable the most undesirable paranoic xenophobic traits that Korea needs to shed in order to join the developed world. This author is doing Korea a great disservice with his patronizing snitfit, and needs to be called on it.
David Thiessen, learn to speak honestly instead of attempting to seem superior. And while you’re in Korea, try to do some good rather than instigating further trouble. There’s no reason you can’t do so with consideration and diplomaticy as so many foreigners and Kyopo alike , myself included have done for years here.
That is a nice comment Mizar. IMHO.
Oh, the run-on sentences, missing or misplaced commas, meandering thoughts, and changes in voice and number. This one is a doozy:
No surprise to scroll down to the bottom and learn that this guy is an English teacher. Bring on the Filipinos and Indians!
Yup, a really bad writer, and shallow thinker.
It seems the commenter known as “archaeologist” is trying to respond to criticism:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww.....38;page=11
@16 Mizar5, thanks for the good post.
First mjw learns to write in paragraph form, and now this. The quality of this blog is on the rise.
“I find that the Westerner feels that the West is the best despite its own corruption, its own racism and its own slanting of policy to gain benefits for its corporations.”
Just because I am critical of the Korean government doesn’t mean I am not equally critical of the Canadian. I am, maybe even more greatly so, but since we are in Korea, it seems more relevant to me to discuss Korean issues than Canadian ones, don’t you think? Hell, I’m happy that I’m depriving the Canadian government of my taxes by living in Korea. How’s that for contempt?
Besides, as I pointed before, I’m exercising my civil rights by being critical of the Korean government. Pardon me for taking my
Oh, and I refuse to apologize for the times my family and I have been stared at (or worse, insulted) because of the colour of my skin. Sure, that sort of thing happens to visible minorities in Canada too (albeit, Canadians are more subtle about it), but that doesn’t excuse the behavior.
Correction…Pardon me for taking my democratic rights to heart.
gyopos and expats clearly have their differences.
I’m with Wang Kon.
this dude is a good dude with a good point.
#24,
My problem with it is that he doesn’t attempt to make a distinction based on the source of the criticism and the intent behind it. I certainly am not bashing Korea when I am critical of the Roh government, for example.
just a numbnut christian foreigner who’s gone native.
The next thing you know, he’ll be wearing a hanbok.
That comments page on the Korea Times looks like a mosh pit.
There is good news at the Korea Times amid all the shite writing: Michael Breen has returned after months of silence there.
(Also it appears KT comment board defender archeologist is the hapless writer David T himself!)
‘undesirable paranoic xenophobic traits that Korea needs to shed in order to join the developed world….’
what a load of crap. korea is already part of the developed world and it’s racism isn’t a problem for said world. still further, it ain’t a problem in korea either even if the expat whine about some korean kid looking at him too long.
mizar, what happened to the ‘we koreans’ crap? where did that go? even marmot himself said you were just a cracker posing as a tongpo. what happened to your masqurade? man, you’re on par with bevers/matt. sad.
“what a load of crap. korea is already part of the developed world and it’s racism isn’t a problem for said world. still further, it ain’t a problem in korea either…”
So you’re saying that the last 10 years of anti foreign sentiment didn’t set Korea back?
#31 “So you’re saying that the last 10 years of anti foreign sentiment didn’t set Korea back?”
Actually, I think pawi is trying to say the last 10 years of anti-foreign sentiment never happened.
Ok, gotta get my asbestos suit on now…