http://www.amazon.com/Capitali.....amp;sr=1-1

And likewise for the democratization of S Korea, see Kim Sunhyuk’s “Politics of democratization in Korea: the role of civil society”

http://www.amazon.com/Politics.....amp;sr=1-2

And, you can’t deny that S Korean progressive forces have advanced the human rights agenda within the South - through the Human Rights Commission for instance. But, when it comes to N Korea, all takes a back seat to nationalism. Not only human rights, but also economic self interest, as you note with the Kaesung example, and I’d add to that the case of the US FTA, which is might be an economic boon to Korean industrial workers, but is opposed for mostly nationalistic reasons.

And, I think you will be saddly disappointed if you truly think that any on the S Korean right have even the slightest interest in genuinely promoting human rights. Sure they want to discredit Kim Jung Il, but those guys would be besides themselves if the whole North became one big Kaesung complex under the authoritarian control of a friendly ally.

That sounds about right to me. But then, you go off the rails:

Who do you think has been in the vanguard of the wave of democratization that swept through Asia and Latin America in the last twenty years? - the left, that’s who - primarily workers, labor unions, and progressive religious groups.

Ho, Hugo, and Che, frinstance?

If you’re suggesting that Korea’s “progressive” movement is or will become a force for liberalism or liberation, that’s demonstrable nonsense. There aren’t enough hours in the day to paste in all of the links showing how the Korean Confederation of Trade Unions, the Teacher’s Union, radical priests, and the so-called “Human Rights Commission” have collaborated with the North Korean regime or squelched/opposed any discussion of its atrocities, sometimes violently.

In fact, one prediction I’ll make is that we should expect a major North Korean influence scandal next year. The UNDP’s determination to go after LMB’s scandals will only give him more motive to pursue that as (1) payback, (2) distraction, and (3) a way to bulldoze (TM) his opposition.

Or maybe you can prove me wrong here. Can you show me when the KCTU ever took up the cause of its rank and file after their jobs were outsourced to Kaesong, where the North Korean workers’ wages are being stolen by Kim Jong Il? You’d think doing so would advance the interests of workers on either side of the DMZ. Obviously, some other conflicting interest has persuaded the KCTU otherwise.

South Koreans know what’s going on in Camp 22, or easily could if they cared to find out. They don’t care, and probably never will, because those atrocities are being done by Koreans to other Koreans. They probably won’t even care after the CNN crews get there. There are degrees of apathy, of course. The right is ambivalent about appeasement — even if it supports the atrocities — while the left is enthusiastic about it.

I challenge anyone to prove the existence of a significant “liberal” movement in Korea. In Korea, classical liberalism — that is, a belief in the expansion of personal freedom, even in defiance of existing conventions of society — is confined to two fringes: one meek faction of the DLP and one faction of the New Right movement that hasn’t been hijacked by MB cronies.

As more is revealed about the true nature of the N Korean regime, I think gradually opinions will change, just as the Italian Communist party abandoned support for the Soviet Union following revelation of Stalin’s abuses.

Whole families incarcerated in concentration camps, summary and public executions, extreme political persecution, hunting down refugees in China…I think the true nature of the North Korean regime has already been revealed.

What exactly does this mean? Are you saying that the escapees have a personal bias that makes them less objective towards atrocities?

If you ever ask yourselves why “they don’t care,” you might notice how often countries use the human rights card to criticize their adversaries, and seldom accuse their allies of human rights abuse - that includes the US. Many in the Korean left still view the North through a perspective shaped by colonialism - as the true representative of Korean nationalism, fighting against foreign domination. That’s apparently their world view. And when forced to choose between national sovereignty and human rights - they side with the former.

You say you think they will forever ignore human rights violations in N Korea - I disagree. As more is revealed about the true nature of the N Korean regime, I think gradually opinions will change, just as the Italian Communist party abandoned support for the Soviet Union following revelation of Stalin’s abuses.

And, I think you will be saddly disappointed if you truly think that any on the S Korean right have even the slightest interest in genuinely promoting human rights. Sure they want to discredit Kim Jung Il, but those guys would be besides themselves if the whole North became one big Kaesung complex under the authoritarian control of a friendly ally.

Who do you think has been in the vanguard of the wave of democratization that swept through Asia and Latin America in the last twenty years? - the left, that’s who - primarily workers, labor unions, and progressive religious groups. The middle class and white collar workers helped turn the tide in Korea against the Chun dictatorship - but the captains of industry - FKI - were still in Chun’s corner. And Han Nara takes some very FKI-friendly positions - and opposes advancement of human rights within S Korea - and the role of the National Human Rights Commission.

Nationalism blinds some on the S Korean left to human rights abuses in N Korea. I’m betting with time they’ll come around.

So that would be never!

Loved how you tied in the evil American designs on undermining Korea as the “real” reason that Koreans can’t support human rights in North Korea.
Absolute classic!

That doesn’t sound like he’s terribly concerned about human rights abuses over there.

How many UN Resolutions about human rights in NK has the ROK under Roh ignored?

Also, everyone on the planet knows the humanitarian aid going over there isn’t reaching its intended recipients. How do you let a system continue like this? Do they think it’s going to fix itself? Even the bogus Kaesong jobs are nothing more than slave labor being used in a PR stunt.

“It’s hard to generalize their view to the whole NK population.”

Yes, it’s hard. And inconvenient because if people spoke out in NK they would be imprisoned along with three generations of their family. I’m guessing people would prefer not to starve or suffer from new strains of TB. Just a guess.

The article was correct; the Left doesn’t care.

I think you oversimplify by arguing that general SK disinterest in the well being of Northerners explains the lack of campaigning for NK human rights.

There is plenty of public support, especially on the S. Korean left, for providing humanitarian assistance to the North, and polls show most do not want aid tied to political objectives. Because of historical reasons (legacy of fighting against Japanese colonialism, primarily) nationalism tends to trump all else for the S. Korean left. And, they apparently view the human rights agenda as part of an interventionary American plan to weaken the North, and thus, weaken Korean sovereignty. And, that’s different from saying that they just ‘don’t care.’

As for the S. Korean right, well, I do wonder if they truly are committed to human rights principles. Remember many of those guys were not leaders of the pro-democracy movement. Many are friendly to the chaebol business lobby, and many may have served under Chun. For the S. Korean right, human rights is a useful tool to undermine the North - but I don’t think they’d be too upset to see a capitalist pro-FDI dictator rise in Pyongyang. With N Korea fairly weak at present, and seen as less of a threat, there’s less incentive for them to use human rights for NK bashing.

As for the defector’s conservative views - certainly they represent a good portion of the populace, but remember, anyone who would risk their lives to treck all the way to Thailand to escape, or pay a fortune, clearly must already have a strong hatred for the regime. So, it’s hard to generalize their view to the whole N Korean population.

So, when will S Koreans start caring about NK human rights? I’d say it will probably happen if the S Korean left can finally start to feel secure in their nation hood and level of sovereignty, and ‘outgrow’ the colonial legacy and the fixaton with nationalism. Someday that will probably happen - and the sooner the better.

Tomorrow (19 December) South Korea will hold presidential elections and, if the polls can be trusted, it looks like the former mayor of Seoul and Hyundai Construction businessman Lee Myung-bak (이명박) will win.
Unfortunately – and bizarrely, con…