Yonhap reports that there has been a flood of people from Korea, the United States and Thailand, applying to adopt the 7-year-old Korean girl abandoned by her adoptive parents — Dutch diplomats — in Hong Kong. Hong Kong social services is also talking with Korean couples in Hong Kong, who have apparently been granted priority. Deutsche Presse-Agentur, meanwhile, examines some of the questions raised by the case.
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42 Comments
That Deutsche Presse-Agentur article is bullshit. How can they say Jade developed behavioral problems? All the reports that I read from the family servants that took care of the girl say that she was a quiet normal smart girl.
Before lashing out in rage at this seemingly inhumane Dutch couple, keep in mind “they were advised by the Chinese Social Services to place her in foster care temporarily,” and the couple said, “Contrary to what has been written in the media, we do not want to get rid of our daughter. We never even considered giving her up.” There’s always two sides to a story, this one sounds suspiciously political/diplomatic.
Boshintang, is that why the couple haven’t seen their daughter since last year May when they ditched her in the Social services? If they weren’t considering giving her up, why wouldn’t they at least go see her in the last year and a half?
“Yonhap reports that there has been a flood of people from Korea, the United States and Thailand, applying to adopt the 7-year-old Korean girl abandoned by her adoptive parents”
Why are some of them rushing to adopt her and not other orphans?
#3 cm, I am by nature a sceptic, especially when it comes to politics and a highly mediatized story originating from a Korean magazine.
Speaking of politics, this story is coincidentally coming in handy to the lawmakers who are trying to ban Korea’s international adoption program. http://mudeng.wordpress.com/20.....e-parents/
#4 I ask myself the same question. Perhaps out of pity, but I suppose any child without parents should be pitied.
“Speaking of politics, this story is coincidentally coming in handy to the lawmakers who are trying to ban Korea’s international adoption program. http://mudeng.wordpress.com/20…..e-parents/”
I actually think it’s a very good ideal, and long time coming. Domestic adoption in Korea is picking up, and the conditions of orphanages in Korea are pretty good - not like what they were decades ago.
It’s more cruel to ship these kids off to foreign cultures, it’s best that they grow up with their own.
I’m sure that orphans are well fed and cared for, but there is no real subsitute for a loving family.
Now you’re starting to sound like the Dutch couple. An infant has no culture, only physical and emotional needs. Even a one-year-old is still a generic human being with a distinct individual identity but no strong cultural imprint. Children raised by parents of a different race may face identity issues, but that has nothing to do with culture.
I agree, Sonagi. Babies are a blank slate. Culture is something that is taught/learned. A loving home is far better than sitting in an orphanage, I don’t care how ‘well fed/taken care of’ you are.
But hey, if Korea wants to stop international adoption, so be it. Since adoption is still looked down on, well see how many of those kids get adopted. When that int’l adoptions stop, next we’ll be hearing stories about overcrowding, etc. Again with the knee-jerk band-aid policies. It’s almost like killing the chicken to get the egg (which if I’m correct is something you don’t have to do)
“Children raised by parents of a different race may face identity issues, but that has nothing to do with culture.”
That’s what I meant. It’ll spare them that problem later on when they grow up.
Some of them seem to have a real tough time with that.
Do you know what kind of hell a child lives being born of a poor single mother in Korea?
“It’s more cruel to ship these kids off to foreign cultures, it’s best that they grow up with their own.”
A statement this ignorant can only be attributed to higher education.
Challenges are more easily surmounted when a child grows up in a loving nurturing enviroment. A ward of the state will not have that kind of advantage
#10,
The kind of hell that should have been left to the father who abandoned them in the first place?
“Some of them seem to have a real tough time with that.”
Probably not as tough a time as life in an orphanage, growing up in extreme poverty, or experiencing regular abuse.
‘Children raised by parents of a different race may face identity issues, but that has nothing to do with culture.’
said just like an arrogant white person would say it. ask them what they would think about black, asian, or latino couples adopting and raising poor white children. then we start hearing them talk about culture and the like.
oh, and about ten years ago here in the states, a mother was stripped of custody of her infant son. why? because she married a black man. no uproar from soangi types occured.
What a devious fuck you are, pawi.
You’re assuming (and projecting) again. As it is, numerous poor white children raised by white adults have already embraced black, asian, and latino culture to a great degree.
I will only believe that if I see a copy of the court order where it states that. Of course, such an order does not exist.
Hey pawi: Why don’t Koreans adopt more black, white and latino kids?
Please answer…please!
“Probably not as tough a time as life in an orphanage”
How tough can it be to live in an orphanage? Have you ever been in one in Korea?
Have you lived in one, cm?
# 17,
Something to do about the old Silla bone rank system. Your genes define who you are. Archaic and prehistoric by Western standards I know, but hey, Korea was still a largely a pre-industrial society 40 years ago.
Give it a few generations.
On another thread, you defended yourself against charges of racism by pointing out that criticizing “the Expat” was not racist. In that first sentence, you attributed my views to my race. And by the way, one of my white colleagues has a father who learned to speak fluent Chinese as the adopted son of Chinese-Americans in California. He had many siblings, for his adoptive parents needed many hands to tend their orchards. Adopting orphans as household or farm help was not uncommon in the US up until the 1970s.
“oh, and about ten years ago here in the states, a mother was stripped of custody of her infant son. why? because she married a black man. no uproar from soangi types occured.”
About then years ago? Really? The dateline on the article that you linked on the subject clearly states that it was written more than ‘about ten years ago’.
This reminds me of an experience I had a couple of weeks ago on a trip to the States, when I saw two Korean baby adoptees with their new American families on the plane. I agree with Sonagi about no substitute for a loving family. On the other hand, it was kind of sad to see these kids lose part of their identity. And many will spend years trying to recapture what was lost. There’s nothing wrong with adopting a foreign culture, of course, but the problem for these little kids is that it’s never their choice. So, probably positive that Koreans are increasing adoptions. By the way, I’d read that adoption was fairly common historically in China. I’d assumed that they also had similar attitudes about honoring ancestors. Interesting to have such different practices regarding adoption.
# 23,
Again, as I’ve stated previously, Korea’s views on children and heredity (i.e. family legitimacy) is heavily influenced (for better or for worse) by the Silla bone rank system. It’s a central asian practice of thinking that bones were sacred because they did not decay.
Anyways, you inherit the “holyness” (if you will) of the bone from generation to generation. If you are not of a true or holy bone rank, then you were nothing and could not advance in society. This system was so rigid that when Chang Bogo tried to enter into true bone status by marrying a Silla princess when he was like only 5th rank, Silla had an assassin kill him. China never had a bone rank system, thus their ideas of bringing someone into the family without a direct genetic affinity was better accepted.
Ah, Korea, a land where people conduct themselves on the basis of prehistoric superstitions.
Sperwer,
Every group of people have their own cultural quirks based on their background and historical experience. I would just say that Korean attitudes towards adoption just haven’t matured yet.
“How tough can it be to live in an orphanage?”
cm, you’re joking right?
WangKon:
Some are just more backwards, reprehensible and less obviously redeemable by some other principled positive cultural characteristic - like a willingness to accept a criticism instead of playing the Tu Quoque gambit.
Can someone explain to me why Koreans are so much readier to give up their children for adoption than even the poorest women in other countries? Why in Korea there are “divorce orphans,” i.e. kids dropped off at the orphanage after having been raised for 10 or 11 years, longer than the Dutch had that poor kid? Just so Mommy and Daddy can make a fresh start? And why are North Korean “refugees” the only ones who routinely scamper off without their kids, aware that the latter will then go through hell?
Just asking.
Because in Korea, there is an ancient ritual where the kid is left in the mountains (or perhaps dropped down one) and if they manage to survive and return home, they are then worthy to survive the society.
But yeah, what are the statistics on it anyway? Not too familiar with the orphanage business in countries, and I have seen the opposite to be true; a few examples where the non-Korean side of a couple ditched the kid (Hines Ward, Dennis Kang). I also would say that child ditching would probably be because it’s generally looked down in society to have a kid but no marriage, and future parents-in-laws tend to be very hard against this.
As far as I can tell, it’s been the men who tend to run off in NK from the kids, not the women, and the trek itself is life or death; as the latter is usually the punishment for such activities.
My (admittedly limited) experience (based on the work I do with one orphanage in Seoul) is that this is a relatively unusual and significant problem in Korea. All 80 of the “orphans” that I know have in fact been abandoned by their parents, most long after birth - a situation that understandably creates a lot of immediate psychological problems . In some cases, this is a plain case of genuinely overwhelming economic hardship, and sometimes the parents in such cases maintain contact, even visiting their children at the orphanage, to whom they have in effect delegated the economic responsibility for their children. In others, the circumstances are murkier. There are more than a few appalling instances of children simply in effect thrown away by quite well-to-do parents. In all instances the parents are alive and, in some cases their whereabouts are known. None of the cases with which I am familiar involve births out of wedlock
Very interesting, Sperwer. And journeyman, most of the NK migrants are in fact women, though the number of those who get into SK is skewed in favor of males. And the abandonment of children was massive during the NK famine, in contrast to famines in Africa.
I bring all this up because it seems inconsistent. Allegedly they are especially averse to adoption because blood ties are all important. And yet they are especially inclined to give children up for adoption, even when children are born in wedlock.
Well, if the wedlock thing was directed to my post, I didn’t mean children between unmarried couples, more of married couples who decide to split after a few years and are still looking for longterm partners. As I mentioned, even though they do have enough material wealth to support the child, they’re usually dropped due to the stigma and difficulty of future marriage among the same social spectrum. From my even more limited experience, though.
Herod, uh…yeah, I think what your trying to imply is as it is, and I’m kinda surprised that from being a poster here, you’d be unfamiliar to take the ‘Koreans are innately morally superior’ act with a grain of salt. Inconsistent (hypocritical) behavior? That’s like realizing it’s inconsistent when Koreans say they don’t like parmesan cheese ’cause it stinks and then they go on to eat some kimchi (and a great many other things…)
At any rate, putting such notions aside and addressing the difference between the African nations and NK famine - orphanage situation, I’d say it’s due to accessibility; Africa is huge and most of the better of nations are on the outer fringes, so if your starving and in say Malawi, your hard pressed to be able to go anywhere for help. In NK on the other hand, walk to China or somehow make it to SK and your guaranteed meals. Considering the terrain and the border guards though, children can be quite a liability. Still, got any links on the mostly women running away issue? It’s not that I doubt your…credibility I guess would be the word, but rather I find it interesting as well.
“wedlock” reference was not “directed” at your post, but your reference did cause me to include the qualification. The qualification prompted by your latest is that hone of the 80 cases with which I’m familiar involve children abandoned because of a break-up.
[BTW, I enjoyed the parmesan/kimchi example. My mother-in-law tease one another with the observation that wht the other is eating smells like shit precisely in connection with parmesan and kimchi.]
Well, here’s a study that supports Sonagi’s point about no substitute for a loving family - kids raised in foster homes developed higher IQs than those that stayed in orphanages:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/21/us/21foster.html
Sperwer - since you’ve had more experience with orphanages than I have - I have a question for you. I remember during the IMF period how parents in hardship would drop their kids off at an orphanage with plans to retrieve them later. Do they ask the orphanage not to permit their child to be adopted? If not, it would seem pretty risky - you could lose your kid overseas somewhere.
Korean divorce courts traditionally grant child custody to fathers, as I know, which could be another factor leading to abandoned children. The step mom may not get along with the guy’s kids, the father is likely to busy to raise them himself, and the mother may lack the financial resources to raise them alone.
Dokdo: Yes, there is an implicit understanding to that effect, but it’s not much of a worry because of the high unlikelihood of a Korean adoption under any circumstances and the equal unlikelihood of an overseas adoption since none of the kids generally are infants or very young children. BTW, although it’s not unheard of, very few of the parents even if they get back up on their feet actually do reclaim the kids.
My gosh, that’s depressing, Sperwer.
So much for that hooey about “cheong” I guess.
Supporting links?
Call my old-fashioned, but I link to books.
According to Nolan and Haggard’s Famine in North Korea, Medicins sans Frontieres estimated that during the famine as many as 25% (!) of the children in South P’yongan province were abandoned. And you’re talking a relatively well-off part of the country.
I should have added “or orphaned.” But all experts are in agreement that children and the elderly died at a far higher rate than 20-60 year old adults precisely because they were abandoned.
I’m still not clear on why the parents abandon their children because from what I’ve observed, Koreans and Asians in general seem very committed to their family. The parents sacrifice for their children in many cases. I am very puzzled by the contradiction or maybe this is not an unusual phenomenon for any group if the conditions are similar??