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	<title>Comments on: Hagwons, Regional Colleges Pissed at New E-2 Regulations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: smokehard &#187; Bureaucracy at its Finest</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-166320</link>
		<dc:creator>smokehard &#187; Bureaucracy at its Finest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-166320</guid>
		<description>[...] fairly old news, but if you are interested, check out Sean Hayes article in the Korea Times, and this, this, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fairly old news, but if you are interested, check out Sean Hayes article in the Korea Times, and this, this, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Migukin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123762</link>
		<dc:creator>Migukin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123762</guid>
		<description>i am completely discombobulated about this issue.

I've heard they don't start until March 15th now.

I really want to do a story for Zine Magazine about this issue, but I don't know enough to write the damn story.

Any takers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am completely discombobulated about this issue.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard they don&#8217;t start until March 15th now.</p>
<p>I really want to do a story for Zine Magazine about this issue, but I don&#8217;t know enough to write the damn story.</p>
<p>Any takers?</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123342</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123342</guid>
		<description>#28,

Save the money to buy an airplane ticket for when you renew your contract. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#28,</p>
<p>Save the money to buy an airplane ticket for when you renew your contract. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: iwshim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123187</link>
		<dc:creator>iwshim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123187</guid>
		<description>“So who wants to bet that 6 months from now, the regulations will be quietly dropped”

I will take the bet. The looser must donate 50,000 to any charity. 

Honor system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“So who wants to bet that 6 months from now, the regulations will be quietly dropped”</p>
<p>I will take the bet. The looser must donate 50,000 to any charity. </p>
<p>Honor system.</p>
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		<title>By: Iceberg</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123183</link>
		<dc:creator>Iceberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123183</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;too bad there will never be a TV show extolling the &lt;b&gt;hardworking virtues and almost endless compassion of the majority of foreign teachers here.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

That one made me chuckle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>too bad there will never be a TV show extolling the <b>hardworking virtues and almost endless compassion of the majority of foreign teachers here.</b></i></p>
<p>That one made me chuckle.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123089</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123089</guid>
		<description>And while I'm at it...

"a.) inability to communicate in English themselves— I have met some who cannot even answer questions as simple as “How are you?”"

Hence their reliance on the Grammar Translation method.  It's a crutch, as I was saying.

"b.) The ones who do speak English well tend to think that they know English better than the native speakers themselves, because they studied in the Philippines for a year."

I wouldn't say that, but some of them tend to look down on native speakers.  Don't you know, all our diplomas are forgeries? 

"c.) They tend to rely on tests that require the students to translate English into Korean, thus really only testing the kids’ ability to write in proper Korean."

Again, grammar translation...and studying for a test, not for fluency (too much emphasis on extrinsic motivators and not enough on intrinsic motivators).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And while I&#8217;m at it&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;a.) inability to communicate in English themselves— I have met some who cannot even answer questions as simple as “How are you?”&#8221;</p>
<p>Hence their reliance on the Grammar Translation method.  It&#8217;s a crutch, as I was saying.</p>
<p>&#8220;b.) The ones who do speak English well tend to think that they know English better than the native speakers themselves, because they studied in the Philippines for a year.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that, but some of them tend to look down on native speakers.  Don&#8217;t you know, all our diplomas are forgeries? </p>
<p>&#8220;c.) They tend to rely on tests that require the students to translate English into Korean, thus really only testing the kids’ ability to write in proper Korean.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, grammar translation&#8230;and studying for a test, not for fluency (too much emphasis on extrinsic motivators and not enough on intrinsic motivators).</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123071</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123071</guid>
		<description>"In fact, if you take any TESOL or TEFL course, you will find that by necessity, repetition is not a “crutch of lazy teachers”, but a necessary part of teaching beginning students."

I have taken a great deal of TESOL and TEFL courses.  I've even taught a few.  

Judicious use is the key.  Even if the teacher explains to you the literal and figurative meanings of "Cão que ladra não morde", you can repeat it until you're blue in the face, it won't teach you how to produce a similar utterance...nor will it tell you whether it's Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, or French.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In fact, if you take any TESOL or TEFL course, you will find that by necessity, repetition is not a “crutch of lazy teachers”, but a necessary part of teaching beginning students.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have taken a great deal of TESOL and TEFL courses.  I&#8217;ve even taught a few.  </p>
<p>Judicious use is the key.  Even if the teacher explains to you the literal and figurative meanings of &#8220;Cão que ladra não morde&#8221;, you can repeat it until you&#8217;re blue in the face, it won&#8217;t teach you how to produce a similar utterance&#8230;nor will it tell you whether it&#8217;s Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, or French.</p>
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		<title>By: tmc1233</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123024</link>
		<dc:creator>tmc1233</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-123024</guid>
		<description>@23-- In fact, if you take any TESOL or TEFL course, you will find that by necessity, repetition is not a "crutch of lazy teachers", but a necessary part of teaching beginning students.  There is also the whole issue of being stuck with substandard texts that are either required by the franchise, or chosen by the hagwon director without any input from those who have to use them.

If you are referring to Korean ESL teachers, I think that their greatest faults (in general) are:  

a.) inability to communicate in English themselves--- I have met some who cannot even answer questions as simple as "How are you?"

b.) The ones who do speak English well tend to think that they know English better than the native speakers themselves, because they studied in the Philippines for a year.

c.) They tend to rely on tests that require the students to translate English into Korean, thus really only testing the kids' ability to write in proper Korean.

Anyway, theories involved with L2 acquisition all tend to have a component of repetition, though translation should be kept to a minimum.  I try to use translation only when discussing abstract concepts.  Otherwise, it is best to use previously known synonyms and antonyms, sketches and/or demonstrations.

You do touch on some good points though-- style over substance being one of them.  

If Korea really wanted results from its English education system they would get rid of all the Korean teachers who don't even know English.  I would say that more than half of them don't know English.  The first way they could do that is to enforce the regulations already in place, which require that the teachers have a B.A. or better in English.  I have yet to find an English major in a hagwon, and I have been here for 9 years.

Anyway, about the regulations...  Just like the Korean ESL lessons, it is all style over substance.  If they really want to improve things, they will start requiring some form of certification for all teachers, rather than treat all E2 foreigners as potential criminals, because they saw something once on MBC.  Korea spends massive amounts of money on English education, and the results are pathetic.  

This last point cannot be pushed all onto the native-speakers, many of whom DO know what to do in a classroom, but are crippled by bad required texts, regular contractual abuses by unscrupulous directors, know-it-all Korean ESL teachers (who actually know nothing), and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@23&#8211; In fact, if you take any TESOL or TEFL course, you will find that by necessity, repetition is not a &#8220;crutch of lazy teachers&#8221;, but a necessary part of teaching beginning students.  There is also the whole issue of being stuck with substandard texts that are either required by the franchise, or chosen by the hagwon director without any input from those who have to use them.</p>
<p>If you are referring to Korean ESL teachers, I think that their greatest faults (in general) are:  </p>
<p>a.) inability to communicate in English themselves&#8212; I have met some who cannot even answer questions as simple as &#8220;How are you?&#8221;</p>
<p>b.) The ones who do speak English well tend to think that they know English better than the native speakers themselves, because they studied in the Philippines for a year.</p>
<p>c.) They tend to rely on tests that require the students to translate English into Korean, thus really only testing the kids&#8217; ability to write in proper Korean.</p>
<p>Anyway, theories involved with L2 acquisition all tend to have a component of repetition, though translation should be kept to a minimum.  I try to use translation only when discussing abstract concepts.  Otherwise, it is best to use previously known synonyms and antonyms, sketches and/or demonstrations.</p>
<p>You do touch on some good points though&#8211; style over substance being one of them.  </p>
<p>If Korea really wanted results from its English education system they would get rid of all the Korean teachers who don&#8217;t even know English.  I would say that more than half of them don&#8217;t know English.  The first way they could do that is to enforce the regulations already in place, which require that the teachers have a B.A. or better in English.  I have yet to find an English major in a hagwon, and I have been here for 9 years.</p>
<p>Anyway, about the regulations&#8230;  Just like the Korean ESL lessons, it is all style over substance.  If they really want to improve things, they will start requiring some form of certification for all teachers, rather than treat all E2 foreigners as potential criminals, because they saw something once on MBC.  Korea spends massive amounts of money on English education, and the results are pathetic.  </p>
<p>This last point cannot be pushed all onto the native-speakers, many of whom DO know what to do in a classroom, but are crippled by bad required texts, regular contractual abuses by unscrupulous directors, know-it-all Korean ESL teachers (who actually know nothing), and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-122967</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-122967</guid>
		<description>#21,

Oh, god.  Yeah.  Well, Grammar Translation is still the cornerstone of Korean English education.  Let's just say that I'm not impressed with how and why some of them are implementing the use of chants and hand movements in their classroom (and I won't even go into grammaticality and whether the utterances are meaningful or not).  The way I see it, music or not, it's still rote repetition when it's overused--rote repetition being the favored crutch of lazy teachers who would rather hide their inability to communicate in the target language than teach according to their students' needs. One way to describe what they are doing would be to say that it's grammar translation repackaged as edutainment for the purpose of impressing parents.  Yeah, from Grammar Translation to Grammar Translation.  That's what I call progress!  

Instead, they should concentrate on classroom research, look at what they are doing and see how it affects the language acquisition process.  But, hey, that's too difficult, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#21,</p>
<p>Oh, god.  Yeah.  Well, Grammar Translation is still the cornerstone of Korean English education.  Let&#8217;s just say that I&#8217;m not impressed with how and why some of them are implementing the use of chants and hand movements in their classroom (and I won&#8217;t even go into grammaticality and whether the utterances are meaningful or not).  The way I see it, music or not, it&#8217;s still rote repetition when it&#8217;s overused&#8211;rote repetition being the favored crutch of lazy teachers who would rather hide their inability to communicate in the target language than teach according to their students&#8217; needs. One way to describe what they are doing would be to say that it&#8217;s grammar translation repackaged as edutainment for the purpose of impressing parents.  Yeah, from Grammar Translation to Grammar Translation.  That&#8217;s what I call progress!  </p>
<p>Instead, they should concentrate on classroom research, look at what they are doing and see how it affects the language acquisition process.  But, hey, that&#8217;s too difficult, right?</p>
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		<title>By: colontos</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-122940</link>
		<dc:creator>colontos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/12/11/hagwons-regional-colleges-pissed-at-new-e-2-regulations/#comment-122940</guid>
		<description>"So who wants to bet that 6 months from now, the regulations will be quietly dropped"

Kind of like comment moderation at the Marmot's Hole?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So who wants to bet that 6 months from now, the regulations will be quietly dropped&#8221;</p>
<p>Kind of like comment moderation at the Marmot&#8217;s Hole?</p>
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