I’m sorry, but if I got put in a Sudanese prison over a fucking teddy bear (with crowds calling for my execution), the last thing I’d be doing is apologizing for causing offense and encouraging people to teach in the country.
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35 Comments
I ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, but even I know better than to go to an Islamic country and name a teddy bear Mohammed. Give me a break. I don’t feel a damn bit sorry for her.
I know better than to go to an Islamic country, period.
On the contrary, she’s just demonstrated that she’s a reasonable, humane person, and made her accusers look twice as brutish by comparison.
@2 Then you’re missing out on visiting some of the most beautiful places and friendliest people in the world. On the other hand, with that attitude, it’s probably best you don’t go.
Friendly, eh? Except when you make an innocent mistake, like allowing THEIR children to name a teddy bear; then the scimitars come out.
It’s worth drawing a line between majority Islam countries and Islamic regimes, like Sudan, Iran, Taleban Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The latter have no appeal to me.
I am surprised they did not cut out the tongues of the children who actually named the teddy bear or stone their parents for raising little Muhammad teddy bear namers.
I cannot understand the appeal of a religion that generates such medieval thinking and hatred. Demanding that a woman be executed for a simple mistake is digusting and suggests that there is something seriously wrong with the teachings of Islam.
Breaktrack wrote: “I ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer….”
Gerry writes: I can see that.
“I cannot understand the appeal of a religion that generates such medieval thinking and hatred. Demanding that a woman be executed for a simple mistake is digusting and suggests that there is something seriously wrong with the teachings of Islam.”
Christianity didn’t exactly have such a great track record in the past. For centuries there wasn’t exactly a shortage of “medieval thinking and hatred” - much of it in the name of God - in Europe. I suspect it has more to do with the distorted teaching/manipulation of “the teachings of Islam” - and, to some extent, dictatorships using religion as a means of control - than the religion itself.
Breaktrack says: The religion doesn’t make the hatred, people do Gerry. It’s possible you aren’t the sharpest knife in the drawer either. But then again, look how you lost your job and were actually surprised.
I didn’t insult you Gerry, but if you want I can arrange a meeting between you and I so we can have a chat about things. Say Shincheon Saturday afternoon? What do you say?
I agree with what is said about Christianity and Islam in #7.
For all those like bevers who see Islam as a religion which “generates medieval thinking and hatred” I have some questions. I could ask more questions, but it would take a few thousand years.
Which religion was responsible for the Crusades?
Which religion was responsible for the Inquisition movements?
Which religion MURDERED and TORTURED innocent women for being witches?
Which religion has a serious problem with pedophilia within it’s leadership circles?
Is it Islam gbevers?
Please clarify things for me.
Key word here is MEDIEVAL.
What point is there comparing actions of 300-600 years ago with stuff going on now?
Can the world afford to wait 300 years for some sort of Islamic enlightenment in an era of instant mass communications and easy access to weapons of mass destruction?
Ron Liddle has a great piece over on the Spectator (UK)’s website, arguing persuasively that she was released too soon:
“….Gibbons returns safely to Blighty all jolly with stories about how the Sudanese prison authorities gave her lots of apples, what lovely people they all are, and she doesn’t regret a thing, etc. Fine, love — however, on that latter point, we do, so you can pick up the travel bill for the Muslim peers who supposedly sprang you from chokey, you deluded, asinine fool.”
Well, that’s easy. Islam!
http://article.nationalreview......M3ZTRiZDQ=
How many white middle-aged women need to be jailed and/or executed before you crazy people will get over your inherited pseudo-guilt about the Crusades?
Seriously, can you give me a number? Cuz then we can just round them up and put them in front of a raging Islamic mob, have them ripped limb from limb, and be done with it.
And don’t tell me you don’t think a raging Islamic mob wouldn’t rip a woman limb from limb and feel good about it.
“I cannot understand the appeal of a religion that generates such medieval thinking and hatred.”
I take it you haven’t seen the movie “Jesus Camp”.
An any case, the one that puzzles me is the ‘religion’ that was founded by the insane science fiction writer, the one where they dress up and pretend to be in the Navy. That one freaks me out.
“Key word here is MEDIEVAL.
What point is there comparing actions of 300-600 years ago with stuff going on now?
Can the world afford to wait 300 years for some sort of Islamic enlightenment in an era of instant mass communications and easy access to weapons of mass destruction?”
The point is simply to point out that the religion in question might not be inherently wicked. (Not saying a medieval brand of Islam isn’t being practiced in many places: it most certainly is.) But attempts on the part of non-Muslims to label it as such are exactly what extremist elements want. And, my guess is that some sort of Islamic enlightenment is something that will probably happen. (It may already be happening.)
What do you propose “the world” do in the meantime? Some of the more radical solutions I’ve heard from supposedly enlightened people from our part of the world are nothing short of “medieval.”
How many white middle-aged women need to be jailed and/or executed before you crazy people will get over your inherited pseudo-guilt about the Crusades?
Who cares if they’re white, black, brown, yellow, or green? It isn’t right that any are women being jailed, tortured, raped or executed in the name of religion. Nobody is defending this behavior.
“And don’t tell me you don’t think a raging Islamic mob wouldn’t rip a woman limb from limb and feel good about it.”
Raging mobs have the capacity to do these things regardless of whatever religion they happen to practice or not practice.
who’s Christian here? Only a Christian qualifies to say anything good or bad about it.
who’s Muslim here? Only a Muslim qualifies to say anything good or bad about it.
the rest of you are simply, GUESSING.
in a POLITICALLY CORRECT, way.
in other words, you really have no clue of what you’re discussing, but pretend to be experts.
Like Sonagi on many issues.
that was very un-Christian of me.
However, I don’t think you guys ever believed I was a holy man.
The individual with faith, who tries to be obey God, Ten Commandments included of course, is probably right in God’s eyes.
However, because you guys unanimously believe me to be a Japanese porn expert, I am at a loss of words, and care very little of your vehement attacks.
Nice tits.
I think all of you are missing the real agenda. My guess is that the Sudanese government authorities found it quite convenient to pretend that they were with difficulty acting to restrain an independent popular sentiment. It’s an old political trick which nevertheless works over and over.
She became a political target of convenience because she is British — not a religious target of convenience because she is Christian (even if she had converted to Islam when she first came to Sudan to teach, that might not have been enough; one could still readily imagine her being attacked after the teddy naming as being “insufficiently Muslim” due to her British Christian heritage).
I think the Sudanese government’s big worry is “the West” finding enough political will to field some sort of reasonably effective military force to stop the continuous slow-but-steady attrition campaign their surrogate militia type force (Janjaweed?) is waging in Darfur. To supplement or replace the hapless African Union/UN force there now.
With the Brits withdrawing from Iraq gradually, my guess is the Sudan govt is worried the UK may decide it has enough ground forces freed up to intervene. Britian’s former affiliation with the Sudan (a protectorate? till 1956? I’ll have to look it up) makes their first class ground force military a prime candidate for the job.
So take a shot at giving the Brits the back of your hand if you see an opportunity (particularly after the effective way your pals the Iranians did so quite recently over in the Gulf). Let ‘em know they’re dealing with a strong horse!
Had this woman been, say, a South Amerian-nationality Christian, of equally mild-mannered teaching missionary bent — my bet is that we never would have heard of her no matter how many teddy bears her poor students named.
I liked the link Mr Marmot, but it still doesn’t change the fact that the First Crusade was started on orders from Urban II.
All religous stuff aside, I have no sympathy for bevers and others who stir shit up in regards to culturally and socially sensitive issues (Dokdo for example) and then experience problems. It’s right up there with expats who get caught for drugs. They get in trouble and then whine like babies.
What do you expect? You know what people can be like over such issues.
Why didn’t the school teacher tell the students to rename the teddy bear? Would that have been so hard? With all the tension these days you’d think she would have known.
She also had sympathizers within the Muslim community there. They weren’t all haters. People should keep that in mind before they put down Islam and other religions.
#22 - that is the weirdest political theory I’ve read since cinemagauche accused Bush of blowing up the trade towers.
The article the Marmot linked is pretty interesting. Especially the part about how many Muslims now view the Crusades from the perspective of the victims, while past generations may have instead emphasized how they were the victors.
Really? My “theory” is merely that religious-political demonstrations in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum don’t happen without government sanction (though the govt may find it convenient to officially pretend otherwise).
I say “religious-political” because in avowedly “Islamic republic” regimes such as Sudan/Iran/Libya/Hezbollahstan/Hamastan/Al Quedastans, there is no attempt to draw a distinction between church and state. They don’t even think in those terms.
It’s certainly possible that within the Sudan popular Islamic religious fervor, once stirred up against this woman, may have gone beyond the level originally foreseen by government ministers; or that one or more Islamic court judge asked to opinionate on this case might have turned out to be more “right-wing” than the govt anticipated.
Don’t know any of this “for sure” of course, since I’m not an expert on the Sudan nor a fly on the wall at their government staff meetings.
[There! Self-deprecation and careful qualification not being noted as a forte of cinemagauche's, that should suffice to distinctly separate the character of my postings from cg's. (wipes beads of sweat from forehead with intense relief...)].
Your theory is that the way to prevent an attack from Britain is to threaten the execution of one of its citizens. Your theory is that Britain’s tired expeditionary force, now policing a single airport, can be plucked up to engage in serious military and humanitarian operations in a landlocked area the size of, what? France, maybe? Your theory is that the leadership of a modern democracy (I don’t even know who Britain’s leader is now - that’s how srong their leadership is these days) could suddenly launch such an operation without taking the time to warm its citizens up to it. It ain’t like playing RISK.
Breaktrack,
Telling the truth about “Dokdo” and using illegal drugs are similar? Again, I can see why you admitted you are not the sharpest knife.
#26 - I’m not sure about any possible UK military involvement in Sudan, but I agree fully that demonstrations don’t happen in downtown Khartoum without at least the acquiescence of the Sudanese government. Religion is hijacked and used by many of the more despotic Islamic regimes.
#28 - You’re right. I’ve met a few Koreans who don’t seem to care too much about illegal drugs. Dokdo, on the other hand…
#27 linkd: my goodness, you certainly seem to have a bee in your own bonnet when it comes to this subject.
1) “Your theory is that the way to prevent an attack from Britain is to threaten the execution of one of its citizens…”
Didn’t various spokesman in/for the Islamic Republic of Iran threaten the same for the 15 UK sailor/Marine boarding party that got intercepted/taken into custody a short while back? Sudan and Iran are close allies diplomatically.
2) “…Your theory is that Britain’s tired expeditionary force, now policing a single airport, can be plucked up to engage in serious military and humanitarian operations in a landlocked area the size of, what? France, maybe…”
Supplemented by helicopters and especially jet/VSTOL jet airpower, even a single battalion can do a lot. The key is efficiency and effectiveness which is a given for UK military; the only thing that might be “tired” is the UK public’s will to engage in peacekeeping in Darfur.
This Sudanese kabuki theater episode is directed right at what they perceive to be this weakness.
3) “…Your theory is that the leadership of a modern democracy (I don’t even know who Britain’s leader is now - that’s how strong their leadership is these days) could suddenly launch such an operation without taking the time to warm its citizens up to it…”
His name is Gordon Browne, formerly Chancellor of the Exchequer under previous PM Blair.
Since you mention it, I agree with you that the current UK administration wouldn’t be able to launch any peacekeeping operation in the Sudan without a “warmup”. But the UK undertook just such a peacekeeping operation just a few years ago in their former colony of Sierra Leone as I recall — and maybe at shorter notice than you are willing to give them credit for.
The Sudanese probably have a better memory than you and I for the exact details, and are making an extrapolation to their own situation. Going by capabilities rather than intentions; UK public perceptions and their willingness to suddenly get more involved in Darfur could change rather swiftly, at least from the Sudanese perception.
I imagine that much of the time they find the West just as mystifying as we find them; for example, I guess Bin Laden thought the US would be cowed and too intimidated to strike back at him in Afghan after 9/11.
Since we (US)had gone out of our way to avoid getting involved there for years, no matter the provocation (African embassies bombing, Cole attack). Cruise missile strikes didn’t count, indeed they were considered by Bin Laden as proof of his views of US weakness.
OK, you win. It’s Miller time! TGIF.
you mean OB time.
Hoist one in memory of former British PM Gladstone, famously reluctant to get involved in Sudanese (and an for that matter Egyptian) affairs.
Breaktrack,
I apologize for my insult.
Miller, OB…they are both equally bad.