According to the Donga Ilbo, Park Eun-bong, a historical writer, has come foward with claims that the Turtle Ship’s roof was not covered with sheet metal and that Koreans should change the perception that the Turtle Ship was the world’s first iron-clad ship.
Based on historical documents which state that “the ship was covered with a thick sheet”, Park is claiming that the ”thick sheet” was very thick wood, not sheet metal, and that the only metal on the roof were the iron spikes designed to repel boarders.
Another historian, Prof. Shin Dong-won is also claiming that Japanese naval records at that time portrayed the Turtle Ship as “iron-clad” in order to “justify” the defeat of the Japanese navy by the Korean navy, which may have led to the spread of misperceptions about the Turtle Ships. During the 1930s and 1950s, attempts have been made to correct the “iron-clad” perception but with the military coup of 1961, the attempts quietly faded away.
On a different note, the Chosun has unveiled drawings of the 18th century successor to the Turtle Ship(pic below).
28 Comments
I wonder if Yeosu’s having gotten the nod for the Expo will result in something being done to seriously upgrade and expand the pathetic presentation of the turtle ship in Yeosu harbor. Here’s a great opportunity to create a tourist attraction of some substance out of a genuinely positive (and to the extent that the shameful treatment of Admiral Yi by the Korean government at the time, for all the reasons usual to the Korean dispensation,otherwise illuminating Korean history, rather than treating it about on the level of the three-holers at Mt. Vernon or Lincoln’s home in Springfield. Sounds like a job for that caped crusader for Korean tourism, Sanshinseon.
mins, you are very atypical.
what’s that? Japan invented the world’s first iron clad ship title for Korea, so that it could justify its loss against Korea?
I didn’t realize that Japan did such things.
Highly atypical of Japan, too.
I thought blaming Chinese involvement would suffice.
So the original plan was to attack the Japanese with giant wooden wedding ducks?
Suncheon has a whole fleet of those on the 동천. It’s not a coincidence that there are no Japanese for miles.
wjk,
You’re missing the point that whether the ships were ironclad or not doesn’t change the fact that the Korean navy won that battle. Besides, don’t you think that if Japan has indeed lied about the ships to save face because they were humiliated by that defeat, it would make the victory somewhat much more significant than if it the ships had a few sheets of metal strapped to them?
“So the original plan was to attack the Japanese with giant wooden wedding ducks?”
Not any dumber an idea than the Trojan horse.
Japan never credits Korea with
“1st in the world”
“one of a kind”
etc, etc.
It’s a dick fight.
Look at his timeline as well.
I’ve been blessed with the power of observation.
They tried to revise it during Japanese occupation. 1930s.
something about that ship is unsettlingly similar to what I thought were also Roman naval vessel designs.
I think for a period, they used the crow.
“Japan never credits Korea with
“1st in the world”
“one of a kind”
etc, etc.
It’s a dick fight.”
Well,wjk just look into this wikipedia article about Yi Sun-sin.
“Admiral Tetsutaro Sato of the Imperial Japanese Navy mentioned the Korean Admiral in his book published 1908:
Throughout history there have been few generals accomplished at the tactics of frontal attack, sudden attack, concentration and dilation. Napoleon, who mastered the art of conquering the part with the whole, can be held to have been such a general, and among admirals, two further tactical geniuses may be named: in the East, Yi Sun-sin of Korea, and in the West, Horatio Nelson of England. Undoubtedly, Yi is a supreme naval commander even on the basis of the limited literature of the Seven-Year War, and despite the fact that his bravery and brilliance are not known to the West, since he had the misfortune to be born in Joseon Dynasty. Anyone who can be compared to Yi should be better than Michiel de Ruyter from Netherlands. Nelson is far behind Yi in terms of personal character and integrity. Yi was the inventor of the iron-clad warship known as the Turtle Ship (Geobukseon). He was a truly great commander and a master of the naval tactics of three hundred years ago. (A Military History of the Empire (Japanese: 帝國國防史論), p. 399)”
Yi Sun-sin’s name were actually written in Japanese History text books in PRE-WAR time.
That’s why all my grandfathers and grandmothers knew about him. They were taught in school about Admiral Yi.
Although it certainly offers a strong rebuttal to wjk’s argument, it makes me wonder if this is the case of Japan claiming Korean national heroes as its own to better assimilate Koreans.
wjk gets pwned.
wonder how many dizzy, consecutive posts he’ll make in response to this.
I’m with Samuel Hawley on this one. In “The Imjin War,” of which copy I do not happen to have handy, he explains convincingly how those ships were not ironclad, rather they were covered with very strong timbers which had the same effect of making them impervious to the weapons the Japanese had.
For one, the iron in on sheet would’ve made 24 cannon (as far as I remember from the book), so what’s the better use of resources–iron cladding for ships that can already stop Japanese arrows (the Japanese didn’t have cannon on their ships) or 24 cannon?
…or maybe it’s the case of ‘Yeah, he beat us…But, that guy is a genius, only one in a thousand years like him’. Then again, it might be honest admiration. I would guess this guy studied military strategy with a passion and would have naturally developed an admiration for the Korean admiral if he studied the battle.
tomo, I respect you. I actually have a bias to believe most of what you say, because I sense no malice.
#13,
Interesting argument. It does seem more logical to have the roof made of thick wood, or even hard lacquered leather, if all it had to stop was arrows. The again, if the idea was to intimidate, to appear as if the Korean king had unlimited resources, then steel makes more sense.
When I got to a point where I could think critically about the turtle ships I also questioned the supposed iron plating. I mean, why would they have needed it? The Japanese have always used nothing heavier then matchlock muskets before 1957 so why use metal covering when pine thicker then three inches could keep musket balls out.
There are two primary Japanese references that point to iron covering. One is direct and is from the Japanese scribe saying that the turtle ships (calls them “blind ships) was large (by their point of reference, the size of one of the panokseons) and “covered in iron.” The other reference is indirect, but points to circumstantial evidence. It appears that the Japanese wanted to make some iron clad ships themselves and requested iron sheets from another province. It also appears that the turtle ship had some effect on Japanese morale as Wakizaka, the commander during the battle of Hansando, said something to the effect of “don’t be afraid, but those Korean ships are not any better then our blind ships,” clearly a reference to the turtle ships. However, the direct reference to iron cladding is not in a context where it was to support or offer an excuse the Japanese defeat in that particular battle. In actuality, the account seems to imply that it was the proliferation of Korean sea borne cannon, fire arrows and mortars that gave the Koreans the tactical advantage.
Mins, now my Korean reading comprehension is terrible, but I didn’t read anything in that article that said that duck (goose?) ship was the “successor” to the turtle ship. I’d imagine that ship is just a variant of the basic kobukseon design.
# 11,
The assimilation part was the concern of the Japanese interior and colonial minsteries, not the Japanese navy. Any words of praise and admiration by Japanese admirals and naval literature wouldn’t care about its effects on Korean assimilation into Japanese.
“Although it certainly offers a strong rebuttal to wjk’s argument, it makes me wonder if this is the case of Japan claiming Korean national heroes as its own to better assimilate Koreans.”
Someguy
Basically I agree with you. But you have to consider that the book of Sato was published before the annex ion.
Further, the logics of assimilation were different from what it is claimed in most English literature (like that of Jared Diamond), or what most Korean believes until today.
It was not based on the conception that Japan has an older, purer, history and we have to assimilate the Korean and destroy their history to “cover up” our version of history.
No, it was rather “Korea is our homeland (and so is Manchuria and Mongol ,Man-mo 満蒙, a term which the Japanese invented) so it is rather natural that we annex them, and as Japan is basically an immigrant society like America, it is better that newly annexed become melted to the better Nation . Like USA, we are a “melting pot””.
You will be surprised that during the 1910th and 20ies that there were many politicians, scholars who actually compared Japan to USA as a multi ethnical society. The more the empire expanded the more comparison with USA.
Thus the March first movement in Korea was a huge shock for the Japanese at that time. Until that they thought they did better as a multi ethnical society compared to USA, with their notorious discrimination against African, Asian immigrants.
WangKon, the title of the Chosun Ilbo article is “거북선 ‘후속 모델’ 해골선” which translated into English means “The Dove Ship, successor to the Turtle Ship.” And yes you’re right the ship is a variation of the Imjin War Turtle Ship.
Sorry, now I have realized that I have derailed the topic.
My appologies.
Regarding # 17. “1957″ an obvious typo. I meant 1597.
# 20,
Well obviously, I don’t know the Korean word for dove…
“Not any dumber an idea than the Trojan horse.”
That is so 8th century BC.
@ Wedge
The efficiency argument doesn’t really work on the Turtle Ship because… well, they really didn’t make that many of them. The main battle ship of Admiral Yi was Pan-Ok warship, which looks like the Turtle Ship without the iron covering and the head (not so sure about the head…). It’s like in the far future, they doubt the existence or specification of super-battleships like Yamato because it’s technically inefficient from the resources pov.
#19,
Actually, some of the polices that aimed at assimilating Koreans, particularly the linguistic policies, were created in order to prepare (and make the military draft more attractive to) young Korean men ahead of the planned invasion of China.
So, does VANK now issue an apology for pestering everyone about this or does it instead demand the re-correction of foreign textbooks that now state Korea developed the first iron-cladd vessel?
#27,
LOL.