Michael calls the police to get a drunk off his case… and gets booked for assault.
Be sure to listen to the recordings — they’ll leave you speechless.
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This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on November 22, 2007 at 2:08 pm, filed under Ministry of Barbarian Affairs. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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62 Comments
I read through the accounts and the police should be held accountable for their gross unprofessionalism and failure to enforce Korean law, as I understand the facts.
Their mis-handling of this case is an embarrassment to the nation and not helpful to its image abroad.
P.S. Michael should post the video on youtube.com since this sort of thing needs PR exposure.
Or Pandora… especially if it includes someone trying to copy the Wondergirls dance at the end.
I would like to see this story taken to the national media… But I think addressing discrimination inherent in the police force, and exposing how a victim of a hate crime gets arrested for assault isn’t interesting…
Not as interesting mind you, as headlines like “어글리 백인 강사 조심하세요” and labeling foreigners as sexual deviants, drug abusers.
I have much respect for the metropolitician and much empathy for his situation… Keep in mind this sort of thing could happen to any foreigner in Korea.
“… Keep in mind this sort of thing could happen to any foreigner in Korea.”
But I think these situations can be avoided. The last thing you want to do to a drunk is condescend to him in his own language, as I suspect was done.
Why isn’t this filed under “Stupid Foreigner Tricks”?
Not the least bit surprised. It happened to me too back in 2002. The only difference is that I was not charged - I was simply detained and harassed for 4 hours.
About six years ago I was waiting for a cab when a drunken ajussi came up to me and started cursing me, etc. Lo and behold, there was a police station about 5 meters away so I walked towards it. Well the ajussi followed me all the way to the police station and the officer on duty was more or less surprised to see us. Anyways I explained the situation to the officer but the officer gave me a strange look and said “Well what do you expect me to do about it?” I was dumbfounded but instead of wasting my time with him I said, “OK then up to you but as long as he’s in the station it’s your problem now”, turned around, went outside, and caught a cab home.
As R. Eglin mentioned in his comment, the KNP is not the type of organization that one can count on to uphold the law. Although I sympathize with Michael and believe the cops screwed up big time, I believe that he should have left the scene AQAP and not called the police. Because judging from experience, they obviously won’t provide assistance and as proven by Michael, more trouble than they are worth. OK, what I’ve said won’t help Michael’s situation right now, but still there isn’t any guarantees that a drunken asshole of an ajussi won’t bother Michael the next time.
The lesson learned: when accosted by a drunken racist, take him behind a bush and clobber him senseless. It beats dealing with the Seodaemun police.
You forgot the part about fleeing the scene before the cops arrive.
As much as I hate writing this, there is a real lesson to be learnt by this incident. That is, when confronted by a drunk Korean who is really out to get you, there is not much you can do but get away from him – regardless of what you are doing and how innocent you may be. The Korean law enforcement community is not likely to come to your rescue, given drunk and disorderly behavior is still fairly well accepted behavior for (Korean) men here.
The American in question acted rationally and intelligently, but he still got the short end of the stick. With 20/20 hindsight, his error, in spite of his superior Korean language and cultural skills, was to try to handle the confrontation American style. [Heck, as would I had I been in his circumstance!]
But, realistically speaking, there is a surprising amount of indulgence by Korean society of old drunks – no matter how obnoxious they may be. Confronting – no matter how rationally — this kind of irritating and even potentially dangerous behavior is actually asking for a cultural clash of possibly the worst kind.
It’s all pretty disgusting, but few of us were forced to come to Korea. We just have to deal with it.
#1 & 2
I wouldn’t recommend that Michael post the video AT ALL. Under Korean law it might give the old guy an actual case for 모욕. Remember, insulting someone is a crime here. Didn’t that sort of thing happen to you a while back Joe?
This is what happens when you have a society where the legal system is adopted from Japan by way of Germany. The people have no ownership in it and the actual rules that govern society don’t match the laws.
If any expat would so dare to go ahead with tr00 American style, I’d recommend the full “bum rush” ghetto style. Or, if sarcasm is more your thing, maybe the classic “noogie” will cure what ails ya.
ps: Metro’s site is such a fucking eyesore. Literally. It kills my eyes to peruse the comments page. Maybe it’s the font.
Taxi-drivers will tell you that they have to put up with routine physical abuse from drunken passengers, and that the cops chew out the taxi-drivers who take the drunks to the police station.
So the cops’ failure to go after the drunk is nothing special or racist in itself.
On the other hand: how is that a drunk’s statement is enough to get someone arrested?
How can the cops say in effect “Drunks are out of their minds and can’t be held accountable” and at the same time ascribe so much importance to a drunk’s testimony?
That’s where the racism comes in.
I guess Michael wasn’t aware of this Korean proverb: “The fist is closer than the law.”
Yeah, Mike could get in trouble for libel for posting the recording, but the drunk has to find it first.
And my criminal libel case was just relating what was already in the PUBLIC record.
Relying on the Keystone Kops to sort out anything is asking way too much. That said, good luck to the Metropolitician.
A - He should not have called the police. Just walk away… Get in a taxi or go somewhere else… He’ll soon get sick of following. Going into the coffee shop gave the man the audience he wanted.
Interesting to see message from ‘Lankov’ on the other blog under this story bad mouthing Korea and telling the dude he should just leave Korea and stop wasting his talent here. Also said he just got his MBA and got a job on Toronto’s wall street… Surely not the same Lankov — North expert we know.
“Interesting to see message from ‘Lankov’ on the other blog under this story bad mouthing Korea and telling the dude he should just leave Korea and stop wasting his talent here. Also said he just got his MBA and got a job on Toronto’s wall street… Surely not the same Lankov — North expert we know.”
No, that’s not Lankov. That was by a poster named “zip”. View the posts carefully, the posted by id shows up in the bottom, not the top.
There are some places in any city you just don’t go…. for foreigners, one of those place is Sinchon. The following was taken form the myspace of a guy who attended the Yonsei Korean Language Institute (1st year) at the same time I did and got beat up by a mob in broad daylight there:
================================
I went to the “toast” stand late at night, and these two Korean guys asked where I was from. They said “Canada?” and as I was paying for my toast I said “America.” The first guy tried to punch me in the face, which I dodged and punched him in the face, his friend then stepped in between to break it up I thought, and then proceeded to punch me in the face. When i tried to defend myself the entire street of Koreans proceeded to get involved, and with the exception of a few who were trying to help me (I think) everyone told me that I should leave because this wasn’t my country and that I needed to “get out of here.” When I said I did nothing wrong despite blood running down my face from where they cut my eye open people said that I should just accept it because I was American and this was not my country. The police showed up and did nothing despite the fact that the other two guys were obviously drunk and tried to attack me in front of them, and then they tried to put me in the car. I refused and said that “I wanted my toast” and refused to get in the car. The two guys kept accusing me of being an “English teacher” and I kept saying that I was a Yonsei student as people pushed me and dragged me in different directions. They said “who cares?” we are Korea students, and “what gives you a right to come here?” I said that I was invited by the University, but they kept asking me what gave me the right. During this time, people kept saying they were trying to help me and that I should leave because this wasn’t my country. By this point there was a crowd of maybe 25 people. I’m not sure what they were saying because my Korean is not so good, but I’m sure they were laughing a lot and getting a lot of amusement out of the whole thing. The woman who owned the stand told the police that I did nothing and was attacked by the guy. The police did nothing regardless of this fact. When I was walking away with a crowd of people looking at me and laughing, a Korean student said “welcome to Korea” I thought that was kind of him. I also thought what I would say next time a Korean person asked me “aren’t Koreans so nice and friendly towards foreigners?”
It’s a pretty disheartening, depressing read and flies in the face of those flashy ‘Hub of Asia’, ‘Dynamic Korea’ ads. I admire Michael’s courage and dignity in this situation.
These incidents are all too common still and are really holding this country back. Unfortunately, I think the only way non-Koreans’ rights in Korea will improve to the extent that these incidents stop occurring is through greater global media attention to the lack of rights non-Koreans face here and subsequent shaming this would cause the local population.
Earth calling expats: Things are different here in many ways from wherever you may call home. And no matter how much you may want to make this a place where everyone has equal rights under the law, Korea is going to stay substantially different for some time.
The system is different here, but there is a system, and it works for most people a lot of the time. Your odds of getting in a hassle with a drunken fool are lower in Seoul than those of getting mugged or burglarized in many big cities in the West. And if you do get in a hassle, it’s a lot smaller problem than the kinds of things that can happen elsewhere. You could try learning to be okay with that and how to avoid trouble.
But if changing that difference - fixing Korea’s system - is a problem that demands your solution, and it requires making a scene in front of a Korean crowd and calling unwilling Korean police to try to force them all to understand your idea of right which goes against what they’ve learned all their lives, then good luck to you at making the change.
Nine times out of 10 (including this one) it seems easier and more effective to immediately leave the area when a drunken idiot starts bothering you. It is almost always possible to stay the hell out of hassles like this unless you need to prove a point for some reason.
For those who need a clue: If some idiot comes over to hassle you, get out of the area fast. Do not hit anyone. You are an outsider and a crowd’s first assumption will always be that you are in the wrong. Leave immediately. Walk quickly a few blocks away, or catch a cab, and leave the problem behind. Or wait until the system here changes (or you succeed in changing it). It’s your choice.
This is Korea. To think that they’re “holding it back” from something may indeed be nothing more than imposing your cultural values onto the good people of Korea. The common attitude is that hubs are good for money, but that does not entail changing society or globalizing. This is the reality of Korea.
I don’t think Mike is arguing that expats force their understanding of right unto an unwilling police force. I think he’s suspicious over whether the police’s understanding of right is dependent on the skin color of the party making the accusation. For fun (assuming you’re an expat), try getting piss drunk, walk into a coffee shop and begin belligerently harassing some poor couple minding their own business. For maximum enjoyment, mix in racial slurs (조선새끼 is a personal favorite) and offensive language directed at the woman. When the police come — and they will come — top off the evening by claiming the guy kicked you. Preferably in slurred speech. See if the police book the guy, too.
judge judy, perhaps you’re right, I am imposing my cultural values onto Korean society.
Though, at the same time, the thing that unsettles me the most about incidents like this is that Korea likes to promote through international media, the image of being of being an open, foreigner-friendly, tourist, commercial and industrial hub. Yet, at the same time allows such as unabated discrimination to continue which doesn’t bide well for a country with ‘hub’ aspirations.
For me, Korea does a great job for such a small country with few natural resources and is an economic success story. But, it could be all this and so much more if were to just a little more open, tolerate and accepting. That said, Korea has come a long way and I think it will continue to improve greatly in this regard. It’s just frustrating and disheartening that incidences such as this are still occurring. I believe it will get better however, just sucks to be caught in the middle sometimes.
I have yet to have such an unfortunate incident in Korea. On the contrary, I have benefited from small acts of kindness by complete strangers more than a few times. Although I want to call this incident “outlandish,” I have no illusions about the reality of the race/nationality factor here and a culture of letting drunks get away with whatever. The Met has my deepest sympathies for this atrocious and unjust incident and I certainly hope he never suffers any negative repercussions. Shame on the Korean police.
There are two possible outcomes. The first is that the guy clocks you and leaves with his date. The second is that they just leave immediately. It’s tough to imagine someone calling the police and then waiting with the hopes that the they will suitably deal with the situation.
Agreed. However, the majority of folks doing business with Korea are fully aware of the racism, ubernationalism and lack of English skills. The media campaigns to the contrary do not fool any major players doing business in the region.
27. Not in my experience. As a result of mistakenly knocking on the wrong door at a Muju hotel last winter whilst trying to round up a bunch of University students I was with some officious adjoshi who claimed to be upper management for Samsung threatened to call the cops on myself and a co-teacher. Knowing from prior experience that the situation was hopeless, we appologised profusely, probably saving us our jobs, because who knows what kind of allegations would have been made post facto. In the end the guy stood there and explained to us that when he was a student in the US some migooks had called the police on him and his Korean friends for making too much noise, so he felt compelled to call the law on us. Telling him that I was Australian and my co-teacher Canadian would have no doubt sent him apoplectic. These things are nothing but a zero-sum game when it comes down to whitey vs Hangookin.
Anyways, serves him right for calling the pigs. Clock the drunk, sure I would, but call the filth? That just ain’t being a sport. Smartypants got what he deserved. Bust his dumb ass.
Uh, is it okay to blame Japan, if this person does?
Now, now, I don’t want ANY double standards
Joking.
Actually, maybe not. German law became Japanese law to Korean law. Japanese way of policing carried over to South Korean policing as well as gum-sa, byun-hosa, pansa system, where gum-sa has the better position. Countless Koreans have spilled tears over this situation. And what were the J-cops for? Keeping tabs, not to help per say.
Usually, to my understanding, K-cops prefer that Koreans do “hab-eui” or “settle”. Common place while doing the “jo-sa” in the police station. Especially over he said, I said, disputes.
If there’s any lesson, please don’t call me an ass, but it’s okay to do so, and I accept being called one,
the drunk man should have been profusely apologized to, and not given the threat of lawsuit.
from the clip, it sounded like he might take it during his drunken lying and cursing.
that drunk was a fuckin asshole, but drunken fuckin assholes are ubiquitous in Korea. It’s acceptable in the culture. You can do various things and get away with it, claiming you were drunk. No MJ, coke, heroine, but all the soju you can take. Legal.
this incident was racist and totally unfair.
best wishes to you, and hope no trouble comes, and if trouble comes, I hope you win in court.
I propose Jo Sen Jing.
It brings that extra Japanese element into it.
If I were your buddy at the site, I would have apologized with you, and emptied my wallet for the drunk.
“Usually, to my understanding, K-cops prefer that Koreans do “hab-eui” or “settle”. Common place while doing the “jo-sa” in the police station. Especially over he said, I said, disputes.”
It’s all about who yells louder and makes the most outrageous claims. Koreans are just more realistic about the police system. In most countries cops are just the legal arm of the underworld. Why do you think their offices are next door to every red light district in Seoul?
It serves the dumb ass American right for calling them. Let him play with his electronic toys in the slammer.
“I propose Jo Sen Jing. It brings that extra Japanese element into it”
What is Jo Sen Jing? Is that some sort of Chinese word? Sure as hell does not look Japanese at all as Japanese does not containg the “ng” sound common in Korean and Chinese like “ching, chong, dong, gong, etc.”
A better word would be “chonko” or “bakachon”. Now those are really bad.:) Funny how hardly any Koreans know of these truly vicious racist terms for them, but continue to think that “chosenjin” is the equivalent of “nigger” in Japan, when actually, it is a standard term to refer to North Korean citizens or people from the Cho-Soren, harmless enough to where even the Zainichi Chosenjins themselves insist on being called “chosen-jin” rather than “Kankokujin” which is a far greater insult.
Oh well, but then again, Koreans prefer to think that their version of reality is the truth so what’s the use of explaining.
WJK - Being drunk really only gives a license to ill to Korean ojushis over 40 or so right? Probably a less effective excuse for college guys, probably even less useful for ojumas or agashis. Where does this social tolerance towards drunk ojushis come from anyway? As a westerner, it’s kind of hard for me to understand why these guys feel no shame whatsoever.
That’s what Arirang TV is for!
Don’t bother attacking me.
I gave you a future solution that is quite useful.
Everyone should run, run, run away from topsy-turvy Korea as fast as they can: It is truly a place where day is night and night is day.
@ Wiesunja
“Oh well, but then again, Koreans prefer to think that their version of reality is the truth…”
Really? Wow, well, I didn’t realize that this was my characteristic stemming from my racial identity. Thank you for enlightening me about how Koreans as an ethnic group think alike.
Totally different from “Americans think they’re so superior when they’re so morally inferior.” Yep.
Wasn’t there some mention of a new law or something of being able to sue the police if they weren’t helpful?
Yeah, I’d have just clocked the drunken ajossi once hard in the head, usually they’re too tipsy or scared to do anything else after, and it’s the police… You got like a good 15 minutes from someone waiting till they’re out of sight to call the police and for them to actually arrive.
BTW, is that really a Korean proverb, tiger? It’s funny and odd, yet even if it was a joke, I can actually see it being real.
C’mon people here is Korea, what do you expect? I know I expect nothing less from Korean nationals.
@Breaktack
Glad to know you don’t expect nothing less from me then getting drunk and harassing non-Koreans for being near Korean girls. I’ll make sure to remember to do that next time I see a non-Korean with a Korean girl, because apparently that’s what Koreans in general do.
@Bumfromkorea
Just Friday morning sarcasm mate.
I wouldn’t say it happens in general, but it happens often enough to a lot of people. It’s funny how a Korean male friend of mine who is dating a “white” woman is never bothered by Korean folks. Why is that?
I don’t date Korean girls or really hang around them either, so it doesn’t have too much of an effect on me.
wjk, I was subtly mocking you. But I suspect you knew that. Your Japan-is-bad obsession and desire to blame everything on Japan is ridiculous — and so I ridicule.
The rest of what you have to say (except for the anti-gay and pro-Mets stuff) is sensible and I’m glad to have you here, but I can’t resist mocking the ridiculous.
Funny post Mr Carr!
@39
Damn, that was a good catch… I completely didn’t notice that. From the time the guy explained it to me, I always picture the incident like that, so I guess I never paid proper attention to the written one. Anyway thanks for the correction.
Maybe “in broad daylight meand “in plain sight?” Just a thought.
means not meand
Would the drunk really have a case against Michael if he posted the video on the web? It seems to me there’d be a difference between what happened to Joe, and just posting a video without identifying the guy by name.
Or how about if the ajjushi’s face was pixelated out slightly so as to be unidentifiable?
Lastly, what “case” could the drunk actually have against Michael if he posted the video? Slander? In my Western mind, “slander” is an untrue statement made with malicious intent (but then again, I’m no lawyer). It seems to me that posting a video or audio file of an event, so long as it’s unedited (no subtitles or accompanying audio voiceover), shouldn’t be construed as any type of statement that could later be construed as untrue or malicious.
This whole mess is such a crock.
Personally I’m disgusted with people here saying it’s the Metro’s fault. I’m not sure which is worse; the Korean police who just arrest any foreigner they see, or foreigners who support arresting all foreigners for the crime of being… foreign.
Either way this whole mess is sickening; I’d say come to Japan but the whole fingerprinting thing equally sickens me. Next stop for me, South America.
“I think he’s suspicious over whether the police’s understanding of right is dependent on the skin color of the party making the accusation.”
And in the cultural relativism instilled by contemporary Western education, and the thoughts of some of those in this thread, that is just fine too….
Makes me wonder what they would have been saying of outsider’s thoughts of the southern US before the success of the civil rights movement… “You see, it’s their country. It’s not Canada. No matter how much we try to impose OUR cultural views on them, if the South and South Africa want to treat their blacks that way, who are WE to judge…”
There is a very interesting (and very humorous) kyopo poster at The Metropolitician site by the name of “Peter” whose rhetoric is so hilarious but not in the least surprising to anyone who has had to deal with the gut wrenching task of debating with the kyopo mind. Go check out his reply posts in the topics related to the Michael’s unfortunate predicament. To the newcomer, his comments are shocking and horrific. However, to all of us who have dealt with the Korean American/kyopo sense of logic, it seriously is just a trip down memory lane. Actually, I think it is safe to say that almost 100 percent of what he says is the common stance of many of the kyopo posters here.
Didn’t wiesunja get banned for talking to himself through socks?
Yes, he did. Along for other things. He’s been banned again.
@Bumfromkorea.
The playing field is different in the US than in Korea. You probably know that though. If you do what that ajjosi did, you will probably find yourself in the hopital or in jail. This would be highly probable if you walk up to an African-American who’s with an Asian girl and used the N word. Come to Korea to do it and you’ll have no problems-the playing field here isn’t as level.
@ Breaktack
Yeah, you think? You know… hence the reason why what happened to Metro was f*cked up?
Bad retro-romanization [Japanese to hangul, hangul to "English"] of 朝鮮人, which would read Chōsen-jin.
To WIESUNJA who posted this: “However, to all of us who have dealt with the Korean American/kyopo sense of logic, it seriously is just a trip down memory lane. Actually, I think it is safe to say that almost 100 percent of what he says is the common stance of many of the kyopo posters here”
You are an ignorant jacka**! I am a kyopo and let me remind you and all the other haters THAT ALL KYOPOS, KOREANS AND PEOPLE IN GENERAL DON’T THINK ALIKE. I’m assuming Wiesunja is white, huh? I’m sure you hate it when korean people generalize or make outlandish statements about white people right? Well don’t do it yourself!
Regarding Michael’s situation, as a person who also had some bad experiences with drunk people and police here, and also back in the States, I have a great sense of empathy for his situation. I regularly read his material, even though I don’t agree with everything he writes, its always educational and interesting. I hope you can bounce back from this without too much bitterness.
#51,
Not his fault, but he should have known that the drunk was going to lie if he called the cops. Heck, the guy was probably running low on cash, saw Michael with the expensive looking photographic equipment and thought to himself, “That’s my meal ticket”.
DD, don’t waste your breath on Wiesunja.
He’s not white, so don’t go there. He’s an Asian American (not Korean nor Japanese) who’s been posting for a very long time. His style of posting and tactics have never changed. Just ignore him.
Let’s just wish Mr. Hurt is doing alright and wish him luck.
It is not just drunken “Korean ajoshis” who are cut a lot of slack. A similar, if not identical, cutting of slack was granted to me (German-Irish ancestry) during numerous drinking binges in various Korean cities and towns. Korea was definitely a good place for me to spend my binge drinking years.
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