It looks like Korea’s draft Anti-Discrimination Act was stopped just in time — apparently the new law was to make homosexuality mandatory, as well as prohibit discrimination based on nationality.
That was a close call
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{ 46 comments… read them below or add one }
Very well written piece, Brendon. I really enjoyed reading it.
Can you imagine being one of his gay students and reading his comments in the papers just a few short weeks before the final exams in December? Poor kids.
I cannot imagine that. Here is Korea. No Gay in Korea!
‘But the intervening years have seen an explosion of gay in Korea capped by the emergence of Dong Bang Shin Ki (TVXQ) and Super Junior. Plus I have my suspicions about my partner Doil, who likes Westlife.’
are you saying they’re gay or are you simply saying that to you, they seem gay?
if koreans are uncomfortanle with homosexuality, who are you to chide them? you come from holland? if america still has problems acceptings gays as equals, is it any wonder korea has even more problems with the idea?
moving on to another subject i’ve already broached; reagrding tvxq, your implication that they are gay is based on the members stating they are gay or are you just engaging in slander?
I’m sorry, pawikirogi, you must have me confused with someone who gives a shit what you have to say. Ta ta!
I believe the “walks like a duck, talks like a duck” method was employed in regards to tvxq.
Oh my god… Mandatory gayness, just when I’m finally starting to have some luck with the local girls?
The timing couldn’t have been worse. A year ago, I might have been a little more accepting.
Oh, and why are ‘scientists opposed to stem cell research’ warning us about the magical powers of gays to turn us into one of them? Could it be that they are in fact Christian lobbyists who just happen to be scientists?
I’ve also been told that there are no gays in Korea, that it is caused by trauma, and that it is rampant in the west because it is accepted. By a psychiatrist no less.
At the end of the day, there are just as many gays in Korea as there are elsewhere – they just hide in the closet their whole lives.
Witness jinjilbang adventure No2:
I was showering and about to hit the spa when I noticed a Korean man staring at me. Uncomfortable (it had gone on several minutes), I gave him a stare and waved at him (as if to say, what the fuck are you looking at?) In hindsight, this may have been lost in translation and been mistaken as an invitation, for the young gentlemen approached me, whispered in my ear that I was “very handsome” and then preceded to do some highly erotic and abnormal aerobics in the shower next to mine. One of them involved him touching his toes and staring at me from between his legs.
Thoroughly perturbed, I called him closer and told him to stop it. But he kept it up. I had a moment where I thought about attacking him, but I couldn’t quiet decide how to go about it when all I could see were a pair of soapy buttocks. My friends were due to arrive soon as well, and I didn’t think it would be a good look to be found wrestling a man in the nude on the floor. So I called him closer again, smacked my fist in my hand close to his face and told him to fuck off. He fled.
So much for no gays in Korea.
Oh yeah, and if anyone still has any lingering doubts, I refer you to the Party Pooper:
http://partypooper.blogs.com/partypooper/2007/07/super-junior-so.html
hoju_saram, I think you mishandled that one — no need to call such a guy closer, for any reason, especially if you’re inclined to beat him for trying to be friendly. The headshaking “no” is the same gesture in Korea and the West.
Also, have you considered that you might have been in a “gay sauna”? We wouldn’t necessarily recognize such a place since the signals are different from the signals in our culture.
#8,
Most gays are not creepy like that.
#9,
What I’d like to know is why he was making eye contact with that guy in the first place…and why did he allow him to invade his personal space? I can’t blame creepy soapy buns for getting the wrong message.
@9 No doubt I mishandled it, but I didn’t intend to call him closer – I was trying to communicate my unhapiness at him staring at my utensils for several minutes. The signal I gave him was a wave and outspread hands and a pissed off expression: wtf are you looking at?
I’m not homophic, but I’m also not cool with getting a weirdo make a heavy pass on me while I’m in the nude.
@10:
I glanced around once, saw him staring, ignored him for several minutes, turned around and saw him still staring, waved and gave him the look. Turned my back and he was at my side doing gymnastics. How was I to stop him invading my personal space? Tackle him?
Incidentaly, after the little incident I heard a familiar voice say “gay boy eh?” Was one of my teammates, had been watching the whole thing from the hottub. He thought it was the funiest thing he had ever seen.
That was a funny story Hoju Saram. Of course, there’s no way that guy could have been gay in Korea. Probably just his normal shower stretching and aerobics routine.
Kind of strange that a country with no gays would need a law to outlaw it. And bizarre for scientists to claim that homosexuality would turn people into animals. There were plenty of heterosexual animals, too last time I heard.
What I can’t stand in Korea is this practice of putting your hand on the other guy’s thigh when talking – that’s not cool. I also heard rumors that Pagoda Park is a Korean gay pick up place.
Well, y’see… Stem cell research is just a front for research into human cloning… Eventually, the science of cloning will be perfected, thus obviating the need for any kind of sperm/egg interaction whatsoever. Thus, straight sec will be outlawed and the GayTopia will commence! Sliced bread will be replaced with croissants, sedate-coloured clothing will be outlawed in favor of pastels… The horror!
#8, 12, et. al.
Since wjk is obviously busy defending his honour on the other thread, allow me to interject on his behalf…
that guy you met in the shower was gay because he was Japanese, or because he had recently been to Japan, or because he had heard the word ‘Japan’ before
gays in Korea are all Japan’s fault
Japan is the fault of the libs — GWB hates Japan
read Kimsoft… it’s really not just pro-North propaganda
wjk never lies with any man
That should read ‘straight sex will be outlawed’.
zonath, don’t do that.
you don’t have my permission.
Japan is actually quite conservative with politics. LDP always wins.
Gays in Korea, Japan’s fault? Hmm. Not likely.
GW Bush actually shows a good side towards Japan.
I don’t have much of a problem with gays per say.
I do have a problem with gay men who are not true with themselves and sleep with straight women. They call themselves bisexuals and think it’s cool. I don’t think it’s cool at all, if you don’t tell the girl. It’s very not cool.
I will not allow you to bad mouth a dead man. Kimsoft is very critical of Kim Il Sung. He is a true Korean hero.
“waved and gave him the look. Turned my back ”
You gave him THE look, waved, and turned your behind towards him?
Well, that answers my question.
Holy crap… I think this might be a sign of the coming apocalypse — wjk not blaming something on Japan.
Yeah right… that’s exactly why his website was blocked by the South Korean government back in the mid-90s. All a big misunderstanding, I’m sure.
Aside from homosexuality, anti-discrimination law covers the disabled.
If fact there are quite clear employment laws regarding disabled workers and that all companies (depending on size of staff) must employ something along the lines of 2% of employees whom are disabled. Unfortunately most companies don’t and they pay the token 2 million odd won fine a year which is abosolutely nothing to them.
Koreans are as open minded to the disabled as they are to homosexuals and I have personal experiences that I am happy to share with anyone offline.
I read somewhere that about 98% of all Koreans born disabled are adopted overseas.
(This may give away my identity..but)
I even had a Korean doctor treating me for a football injury ask me “how can you play soccer when you only have one hand?” I said.. “And to think I managed to drive to the hospital” ….and god forbid I have a job!
(Note: This doctor is not representative of most doctors in Korea)
but, you don’t believe in the apocalypse.
real odd.
He was not welcome to South Korea or North Korea for many years for various reasons.
Korean people I’ve met say Koreans are polite and kind and everything is about the WE and not the I. This being the case, Koreans don’t discriminate. It’s that simple. I’m sure every one of the Koreans who read this will agree with me.
#18, If I said HRH would I be on the right track? If so I have played against you. Would be interested to hear more of your stories as it gives a really interesting perspective on things here.
WJK… Never stop being you, dood. Whenever I want to know what the dwell-in-their-parents-cellar-at-thirty crowd think, I’m always pleased to know I can find you here.
On the subject generally, it’s interesting to note that when the subject is broached here, there is often the casual explanation given that sexuality is a private matter and as such gays and lesbians are afforded more tolerance in Korea, as in Thailand. However, scratch beneath the surface or simply wait till a GBLT person asserts themselves in society and you’ll find as much homophobia as in the west.
Actually, that overlooks the society’s fascination with male-to-female transsexualism in “talents”. Harisu and “girl-group” Lady are examples of this interest. And let’s not forget the Supreme Court’s recent ruling that after gender-reassignment surgery, the individual shall have a right to update birth records and the resident-registration number to reflect the new gender.
It makes you wonder what all the to-do is about gays.
The society seems ready to make the move to official tolerance, frankly — boy bands are all super gay, transsexuals are hawking maxi pads and tampons, and all that.
Haven’t seen much about the female-to-male transition, though; bet that one will get a lot more opprobrium, given the magical nature of the Korean penis. Getting one by surgery rather than luck of the draw in the Lucky Penis Club might not sit well with the rest of the fellas.
Not so sure Brendon as showbiz seems one of those accepted domains historically for ‘queer’ folk, ergo the Lee Jung Ki (sp?) movie. Still you are right, society seems wont to move on as per the experiences of many gay couples I know back in Australia, mostly successful, professional and ‘integrated’ (for want of a better word) into their communities. Yet neither major party would risk inflaming the passions of the religious vote who are becoming increasingly important. So too maybe with the mega-church bloc here in Korea?
i live in a different time zone from my parents.
don’t know what you’re talking about.
there are somethings driven into our minds by education regarding LGBT people.
there are also somethings deliberately left out, so they will not be targets of discrimination.
i made up my mind on what is the truth after seeing enough patients.
if you don’t like it, your ignorance, your freedom.
Just wondering why your definition of sexuality has to be so dichotomous, still I figure it fits perfectly with your world view. Nevertheless, your argument about bisexuality and non-disclosure would seem to mask a deeper (internalized?) homophobia. Non-disclosure of risk to a new partner would be reckless regardless of orientation, no? Sure some practices are carry higher levels of danger, but most can be mitigated, your medical training would have to tell you this too. For what is a straight woman who goes out and bare backs with one guy and does the same with another? Do you now suddenly distrust all straight females as a result?
example;
Doc (not me, my preceptor): I think you should think about going on antiretroviral therapy, Mr. A.
A: I’m not sure if I’m ready yet.
Doc: What do you mean?
A: Taking the pill makes it more real for me.
Doc: Taking the pill won’t change the fact that you are Hiv positive. You can live 20 to 30 years now with HIV. You have a long life ahead of you.
….
Doc: So, how’s private relations?
A: Good. I’m still seeing my boyfriend. And, I’m seeing this single mom and tutoring her kid.
Doc: Is that the girl you’ve been telling me about?
A: Yeah. I think she likes me a lot.
Doc: Do you like her?
A: Yeah.
Doc: A, I want you to practice safe sex.
A: I will.
———
Hiv positive homosexual/bisexual man, who has a history of not using condoms, already had sex with or is considering having sex with a young single mom attracted to his manly side.
Heinous crime(at least morally)not to disclose that
1/ He is homosexual at least part time.
2/ He is HIV +
I mean, unless you really, really, really, really are in love with someone, would you have sex with someone you KNOW is HIV +?
Too dangerous for me.
Apparently not for this real patient and others like him.
I have a problem with people like the above.
hoju_saram and others discussing the boy bands,
I don’t know if anyone here actually cares, but I just added my little two cents on the “gay” boy bands (DBSK and Super Junior) in the comments section here: http://partypooper.blogs.com/partypooper/2007/07/super-junior-so.html
#21..You’d be on the track.
Would TT be on the right track?
Regardless of whether or not some dude being on the down low is or is not fair to his female partner is really immaterial to the essential point: The Anti-Discrimination Act purports to eliminate forms of discrimination in employment which are so invidious they are not permitted by society. Discrimination against women, the disabled, people with illnesses, different races, different languages, another religion, etc.
The Constitution allows them each a right to work, yet the Constitution has no remedies. That’s why a special law is required.
Yanking the Anti-Discrimination Act to scrub the expectation of fairness for homosexuals (and foreigners, I might add, by the reported deletion of nationality and language) to be able to hold a job and have the same employment opportunities as straight people is the issue here.
Making sure the office lady doesn’t get canned once the boss finds out she’s a lesbian after work is the issue. Stopping employers from forcing women out once they get married, or pregnant, is the issue (this is a real fact — I just hired a great secretary due to some fool pressuring her to quit after her recent marriage). Encouraging a second thought for whether we can accommodate the disabled, so they can pay rent and eat — that’s what we’re talking about. Ending the advertisement of positions for English teachers asking them to present a photograph to make sure no Negroes slip into the mix — that’s the issue.
I maintain the flamer is our canary in the mineshaft. We must protect the flamer lest the rest of us be next.
it’s a very noble issue.
finally some improvements in civil rights in South Korea. Overdue since Military govt.
I was simply responding to someone wishing to ooze out my private opinion on a group of people.
they’re fine with me. I have no problem with them professionally.
I think wjk is turning into gang-bang target practice much like many of my now non-existing gyopo commenters have been in the past. Was one of them Shin Jong Il? I can’t remember for certain.
wjk will not fight for long. He’d rather give up.
gyopo rights at the hole.
and the silent mins0306.
Is that STILL going on?
That is true on both sides of the Pacific.
I thought it wuz happenin’ ‘cuz you’re a Mets fan.
But keep your chin up. As gays Mets fans will be protected too.
26 v 2.
Many more opt on their own (or, if you will, are trapped into following the social convention of) quitting their jobs at the time of marriage. Many of my wife’s coworkers have done this. It happens continually among the female support staff in my department, when we would really like them to continue. Of course, that does not condone the actions of an employer who would pressure an employee to leave under those conditions.
#28, ages ago out in Goyang-si, renamed since we played and I’ve long since moved on. Remembered you because you went to high school up the road from me.
WJK, extrapolation from the single example, I guess it’s up to you how you form your views. Still, I know plenty of people in the category you slate who would not do that, and have heard of others of the mainstream persuasion who have. Anyhoo, I’ve put the logical framework up there, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Agree with Brendan, my mistake for getting caught in a flamer (oops!) war with WJK. Although this kind of legislation can prove problematic at times, for instance if an openly gay person wanted to work for a Christian school whose ethos was contrary to such a lifestyle. A hypothetical stretch, I know, but does it pay to allow private organisations to select the kind of people they want or do we force compliance in the name of the greater good? I’m just concerned for the rights of those who, although their beliefs are bigoted, deserve to exercise free choice in their lives. Enforced tolerance can throw up as many problems as it solves.
I don’t have anything to add here, but since wjk mentioned my name, well it wouldn’t be good manners to ignore the wjk. Just a minute, what I’m saying? I’ve been ignoring him all this time. Oh well back to the ignoring mode.
I wonder if some of these women are married to eldest sons and thus expected to take on a lot of household duties. If the wife’s not soon to be a stay-at-home mother, I can’t imagine how a young couple could afford to lose one salary.
In the case of my wife’s coworkers, they manage to ‘marry well’ – guys with good corporate jobs, or else small-business owners, are the guys they’re usually interested in. Two married NZ gyopos (that somehow stuck in my mind), and one married a gyopo from San Diego. The Kiwis had good jobs, but the guy from SoCal was a deadbeat.
Where I work, they don’t always quit working when they marry, but some just do. The guys they marry seem to be fairly typical income-earners, usually. I guess they accept the idea of quitting for some conventional reasons, but I can’t really question them about their motives, so I don’t know.
Sorry – should’ve added that, where my wife works, the women can generally afford to stop working after marriage, and are really happy to do so.
seouldout, you expect me to be unpartial 100% to LGBT, (I am not)
but you are at liberty to take swipes at gays, as in
“gay Met fans”?
So, you don’t like gay people?
YOU have a problem with gay people?
sounds pretty condescending to me. “Gay Met fans”?
wait now, Wait. WAIT.
Koreans, and including gyopos, are subject to a lecture about civil rights when they discriminate against LGBT. Alrighty, white man. Did you forget about civil rights when you call a group of people, “gay Met fans”?
but, expats like seouldout get a freepass when they take a swipe at gays, right?
Ah, now I understand.
admit it already, wjk is under attack. For no good reason, too.
and you’re not a better person than wjk, (you know it) but attacking him gives you a buzz.
what’s that song, they sing in right field at Yankee stadium, again?
I believe it goes something like,
Y R U Gay…
New York Pigeons fans (well, they WERE the Baltimore Orioles, and the colors match perfect), I expect you to denounce your own baseball kingdom , if you want to denounce Koreans for discriminating against ANYONE not Korean, the disabled Korean, the female Korean, the LGBT Korean, the mentally ill Korean, any disadvantaged Korean, etc. Not that you are obligated to.
hey, wjk is not available for abuse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL97TOTl99c
this is how civil rights minded AMERICA truly feels about gays.
How dare they lecture Koreans about civil rights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7rWh654214&feature=related
I may be a bit slow, but I think seouldout was taking a swipe at Mets fans. Though the irony that you think associating gays with Mets fans is insulting to gays is delicious.
@43
I believe the hypocrisy that wjk is pointing out is the usage of “gay” as something derogatory and pejoratives while at the same time making criticisms of being discriminatory against LGBT.
I.E. Discriminating gays is so gay. <== hypocrisy, and incidentally, one of the more favored slogans of the local LGBT alliance (mostly for the irony’s sake)
“There are no gays in Korea.”
… Yeah, I don’t think that’s the popular opinion anymore. Ever seen 방과후 옥상?
Anyway… what the hell does “mandatory gay” means?
#29,
Yes, certainly.
Wow, 41 replies before WJK replied with a ‘tu quoque’ argument. I can imagine the pain must have been quite hard to take for you to have lasted that long.
South Korea has long been an atrocious country to live in for the disabled/handicapped physically or mentally.
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2007/11/21/2007112100387.html
Check it out. Big uncle decides to take the govt’s help money, but treats his MR nephew like a dog. Like a Korean dog, that is. American dogs at least get some love hugs and pats, every now and then.
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