During the last episode of “Beauties’ Chatterbox” (a.k.a. “Misuda”), an American panelist recounted an incident in which she was assaulted by an unknown assailant and then mistaken for a prostitute at the hospital.
The panelist, an American law student here in Korea, described the attack in detail on her mini homepi. Two years ago, she returned one night to her one-room apartment to find that an unknown man had broken into her home through a window. When she froze up, the attacker rushed her and beat her about the face.
The attacker demanded money, but being a Sunday night, she had no money, which she told him in Korean. At this point, the attacker began to seriously assault her, even strangling her. He beat her to the point that she lost consciousness, and even attempted to rape her.
Luckily, as the assailant went to the kitchen to get a knife, she was able to escape to the bathroom. She locked herself in and called the police, but when police arrived, the attacker had already fled.
The attack left her with a cerebral hemorrhage, a fractured skull and a broken nose.
When she got to the hospital, however, she was forced to undergo further humiliation. The hospital mistook her for a Russian prostitute, and did not treat her injuries properly. She was apparently told that the hospital could not move her to an intensive care unit until she proved she wasn’t a prostitute.
She felt the police investigation was poorly done, too. She said police conducted an active investigation — such as asking her what the attacker looked like — one month after the attack, only after a Korean woman had been beaten and killed by a bungler. Thanks to aftereffects from the attack, she also lost her job as an English teacher.
She wrote that she believes the legal system to be the ally of the victim when any woman — not just foreign, but also Korean — becomes a victim of a crime, and that it’s important that victims be able to alert the authorities. She said that if a woman refused to go to the hospital because she’s concerned the hospital or police won’t believe her, or is made to feel responsible for whatever reason, the crime might not be properly reported.
The American said it was hard for her to talk about what happened to her on Misuda, but she felt she had to because it was important. She noted her attacker has yet to be caught. She’s now preparing to become an international lawyer so that there will be no more victims like her, and that it was hard to find sex crime facilities for foreign women in Korea or English-speaking psychologists.
Marmot’s Note: As I’ve said before many times, I’ve always felt Korea to be a safe country, especially compared to the United States. But then again, I’m a man, and I’ve heard or read that foreign women have much more to be concerned about. I’d still like to think Korea is much safer for women than many other places, but I’d rather hear women’s opinions on the matter.
UPDATE: Here’s her actual blog post (or at least a post of her post). Jesus, this was poorly handled by just about everyone. Nice job by the cops here:
When the 2 policemen showed up, the man was gone. I told the police what happened and that I need to go to a hospital right away but their first words to me was to say “Where are your panties and give me your Alien Registration ID card”.
Amazing. Then there’s the hospital:
I do not remember the emergency room of H- Hospital and what I will tell you comes from my friends who were dealing with admitting me. This comes from 2 Korean friends, 1 American friend, and 1 Canadian friend.
My friends were speaking with the man admitting me, he said that the hospital would not help me unless I paid him $1000.00 in cash because I was a ‘Russian prostitute who probably deserved what I got’.
Finally after convincing him I was neither Russian, nor a prostitute and having my boss show up, they decided to admit me into Intensive Care.
Speechless.
100 Comments
“I’d still like to think Korea is much safer for women than many other places, but I’d rather hear women’s opinions on the matter.”
Robert, you posted women’s concerns on the matter recently.
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/.....-the-news/
“The Chosun Ilbo, however, reports that Korean woman are feeling increasingly anxious following a series of highly publicized crimes against women. Even more disturbing, it notes that the OECD has apparently listed Korea as a “danger country” in terms of women’s safety”
You posted about Korean women’s feelings of fear, and the listing as a “danger country”. Are you saying you are unsure of foreign women’s feelings regarding the safety of Korea? Wow, I could tell you some stories I’ve heard second hand, mostly involving flashers and masterbaters, but also rapist cabbies.
Oh, and by second-hand I mean I heard them from the foreign women, not the perps!
I’m not a woman either, so I can’t provide that perspective, but I’ve heard and seen enough to know that Korea can be pretty dangerous for women. I’ve seen many Korean women who are afraid to take a cab at night, and known foreign women who have been stalked, and heard a couple of blonde women relate being mistaken for Russian prostitutes. I think it would be tough place to live for a single woman. Good the show had sense to put someone on with this kind of story. Doesn’t change that the show is offensive to foreigners in Korea though. The women who get the most attention, from what I can tell, are some of the worst Korean speakers - man they sound horrible. The audience just thinks it’s the cutest thing to see them mangle the language and act adorable. And the women don’t care they’re being treated like trick monkeys, anything to get attention and get on TV.
This woman has guts to still be in Korea after what happened to her. She’s a public personality here so I’ll mention her name 윈터 레이몬드, is that “Wanda Raymond?” She really ought to sue that hospital - hard to even understand why they would even care what kind of job someone with a skull facture has. I guess this shows that “missing white woman syndrome” MWWS isn’t a problem in Korea.
I do not think Korea is less safe than the US with regard to assaults by strangers. The difference is in post-assault treatment by medical personnel and law enforcement, who have been trained in how to deal with such cases. I had already heard about the case detailed in your entry and have heard of similar cases of police bungling of evidence and insensitivity. In one case of an assault by an unknown assailant, the police used the word “boyfriend” to describe the attacker and threw away a tissue with evidence. One cannot blame the language barrier because any man ought to know what the stuff looks like.
The other problem is lack of awareness. Foreign nationals tend to rely on the English papers for news, and their coverage of crimes against foreigners is limited to none, lulling newcomers into a false sense of security that evaporates when they hear stories from other expats.
I have corresponded with this young woman Winter Raymond, who is starting her second year at Suffolk Law School.
Here’s the cool thing about Winter: Even after the number of shitty experiences she has had in Korea, worse than any of us, she still intends to be a Koreanist.
I can’t see a Korean national going on TV like this and telling the whole world that she was assaulted and nearly raped. My experience w/ Korean TV is that the shame factor is too strong, hence people wearing masks in that “hanbokman bogoshipta” (is this the name?) show.
My impression of Koreans is that they are not open to criticism and are hostile to it even if it is from one of their own. But with this show’s popularity and with a white American woman sharing this incident and her analysis from her western perspective, maybe Koreans will stop and think about this touchy issue.
as much as i love this blog, it’s too bad that we have so much testosterone going on in here that i think you’ll not hear a true response to your query, robert.
for whatever it’s worth, the account you gave seems all too plausible here in Korea, my own personal feelings of safety, like yours, notwithstanding.
Check your archives, at least one or two years back, you have this story in there and it went into much more detail… of course, that was before she made it on TV.
As I remember, she was moved to several hospitals until she found one that properly treated her for her injuries.
ROK drop had it March of 2006: http://rokdrop.com/index.php?s=hospitals%C3%A2
With respect to the English-speaking psychologist question, I can report there is such a consultancy serving the foreign community: Adaptable Human Solutions. They advertise here from time to time via Google Ads; here’s the page for their counselling service.
I am a woman and have been working in Korea for about two years. I generally feel Korea to be relatively safe. That being said, however, I have had many experiences of undue sexual misconduct here than I have had in the States. This is especially true in a professional context. I was the only foreign female in the public school I previously worked at and had to put up with a torrent of inappropriate commets by an older male co-worker who took advantage of my naivety. At first I thought he was just being nice, but that changed quickly. I have been grabbed inappropriately by the pricipal at an afterwork dinner when he was very drunk. The school apologized after the incident, but needless to say, I don’t work there anymore and my current envoronment is much more egalitarian.
In addition to sexual harassment at the work place, I there have been a number of other incidents during my sojourn. My first night here I was in an elevator and a drunk business man made a grab at my chest. His friend restrained him and I was too shocked to respond. I have been followed when walking to my friend’s apartment by a man who wouldn’t go away. I was really scared but managed to make it to her apartment. He did try to get in the door but she pushed him out and locked the door. He scurried off. (Her school set her up in an apartment in the Suwon red-light district, but that is consquential and does not way excuse his actions). I have also had to fight off a certain male who tried to take things too far on the second date.
Korea is safe for men, but I think it is a different story for women, especially when cultural biases are thrown into the mix.
I have had my share of harassment in the States as well, but here, as in any other place, if you are a young woman you need to always keep your head about you, even of you are on a “safe country.”
If you’re having surgery, you want to make sure ahead of time that it won’t be one of the med students or interns performing it.
I personally knew two women, conventionally attractive by Western standards, who left Korea immediately after being sexually assaulted by strangers (Koreans in both cases). I’ve heard many, many similar stories over the years, and I remain of the opinion that if you are a slim, attractive, young blonde, you should be extremely careful in Korea.
Sounds alarmist but I KNEW these people - they were targeted because of the way they stood out from the crowd. I consider Korea to be a very safe environment EXCEPT for women as above.
I knew a few girls as expatpete described, and they never had any problems of this sort, but they were also distinctively American-ly dressed (not in the skanky way). And were pretty tall and fit, considering they hiked around Korea for fun, so probably were more imposing to the locals rather than the other way around.
As for this Ms. Raymond, considering she still is willing to stay after this traumatic event, I hope she can toss some fire on the hospitals and police for their shitty treatment.
ExEx:
Your comment that “I consider Korea to be a very safe environment EXCEPT for women as above” has just touched a nerve! I’m a white American woman who, unfortunately, is not blond, slim, nor attractive and was assaulted while exiting a subway station in Seoul some time ago. I immediately called my husband (a Korean national)after it happened and met him at the local police station. The police officer, (apparently the detail that the person helping me file a complaint was my husband did not register)commented that “why should he care … she’s a foreigner! Said husband proceeded to punch the offier in the mouth! Since my husband is also in law enforcement and out-ranked him I received an apology from the station comander and a follow-up on the assault–15 women (Korean and western) were attacked; the man was picked up and charged and committed to a mental
hospital. I was lucky because of “connections”; others are not so fortunate. However, Ex, I think the moral of the story should be…’think before you speak’!
I think taht Western women are up against at least three cultural negatives in Korea. First, in spite of rhetoric to the contrary, women’s problems are not taken all that seriously in the male dominant society here. Korean men on the whole don’t care that much what happens to women who are not in their own family or friends circle. Second, there is a prominent ‘Blaming the Victim” sentiment here. It is assumed that the woman brought it on herself somehow, dressing sexy or in the wrong place at the wrong time. “Why were you out after midnight?” Third, foreigners are cultural outsiders and not part of the national family, so their problems are even less significant to cops or anyone else. A potential fourth problem noted in an above post is that folks who are not “connected” in some way get short shrift here - Korean or Foreign.
Kunsanpcv is right. But on the whole, I think this attitude will not last beyond this generation because of Korea’s declining birthrate. Families are running out of male cousins who can get “justice” done. Don’t underestimate the ability of poor families to get justice. Sometimes in Korea, they are the last family you want to mess with, especially if they are a farming family.
#12 - shirasony, I’m no oil painting myself. The women to which I refer never mentioned that there was any hint their attackers had been anything other than regular-looking guys (a taxi driver in the one case and a drunken businessman in the other) with no apparent mental illness. In those cases where that IS a factor in an attack I’m not qualified to comment, I’m no expert.
Good story though, glad you got that guy off the streets and somewhere he might be able to learn to stop what he’s doing. In my opinion though, fat chance given the mental health system in Korea.
^ I think you’re missing the point, exPete. Her point is that one does not have to be “blonde, slim, or attractive” (your words) to be a victim of an assault.
I guess this shows that “missing white woman syndrome” MWWS isn’t a problem in Korea.
That’s right. The “missing white woman syndrome”, esp if she’s “blonde, slim, or attractive”, is a purely Western phenomenon. The over-hyped Natalee Holloway case was a notorious example. But if you’re a black or some other minority woman gone missing somewhere, the media doesn’t give a shit.
‘But if you’re a black or some other minority woman gone missing somewhere, the media doesn’t give a shit.’ netixen kim on western meida
now, netizen kim, how dare you bring this up. don’t you know the expat thinks he hails from perfection?
***
just read anarticle about the rape crisis team at some hospital. the rn that was interviewed talked about how rape victims used to be treated in this country:
‘they were made to wait in the er waiting room just like everyone else.’
’sometimes, the police didn’t take evidence until days later.’
‘basically, the woman was treated like a criminal.’
‘until the 70’s, rape could only be rape if it was rape in the mind of the man who raped.’
sounds like korea, huh? how is it that a place with such wonderful menfolk EVER have been like korea? hmmmm…..
see? your shit does stink, expat.
Pawi, you’re comparing Korea 2007 to the US circa 1970s. I never expected you to take a swipe at Korea.
pawi’s comment = definitely disappointing, to say the least.
Even more disappointing is Raymond’s story and the fact that in Korea if you’re a foreigner female, then reality is you’re bound to be assaulted in some way, mistaken for a prostitute, or far worse - and all in the same night. It’s very sad and very disheartening, and I hope Raymond’s story and the goodness with which she addresses the issue don’t get glossed over.
How is it disappointing? Same sloppy standards as always.
I’m not getting drawn any further into this - here it is briefly:
a) You might get attacked by some random crazy no matter where you are or what you look like.
b) Evidence from sources I trust leads me to believe that visibly foreign women meeting Western standards of attractiveness should be aware that Seoul’s “virgin with a bag of gold at midnight” reputation for safe streets is not entirely true.
You’ll all jump all over me for saying this, but women’s rights in Korean society SUCK, and that includes foreign women, which I think contributes to my viewpoint above, and also to Korea’s woefully high sexual assault statistics. Anecdotally, I’ve never seen a woman DECKED by her companion (any race/combination) anywhere in the world (so far) except in Korea, with Koreans as the couple. So sorry, please feel free to flame away, I am off this thread.
I’ve seen six women, with my own eyes, get beaten in the streets here. Twice in Daegu, three times in Incheon and once in Daejon. Four out of the six guys were younger, like in their twenties. Two of those instances (one in Daegu and one in Incheon) occured practically within spitting distance from a police station. Once, a couple was arguing in the street near Daegu Hawgwan when the guy punched the girl right in the face. It was no ones business so nothing was done, they just kept watching. I know, I know, it’s the same everywhere else in the world, I didn’t say it wasn’t. To be fair, I’ve seen two women slap around their husbands in the street as well. More female opinions would be interesting to hear that’s for sure.
pawi, why you always bringing the ex-pat hate? did some ex-pat steal your girl or something?
Pictures, commentary, and the same story from ROKDrop translated into Korean:
http://blog.naver.com/ilaugh
I think it might be from her own naver blog, but I’m not sure.
Tawana Brawley says “hi”.
I don’t doubt the woman’s story at all.
But I have a problem with this news story which no one is addressing. It’s in regards to the fact that the hospital failed to treat the woman because they thought she was a prostitute. I am not saying that story was not true. But why didn’t this news story get the other side of the story - what did the hospital and the police say about this incident?
“Said husband proceeded to punch the offier in the mouth! Since my husband is also in law enforcement and out-ranked him I received an apology from the station comander… ”
You husband is my new hero.
My wife and I also got an apology from a station commander because of a young cop who was very arrogant and, well, racist. He called his friend on his cell phone and gossiped about ‘the foreigner’ right in front of me and my wife’s eyes, saying all kind of disrespectful things. The irony of it all is that we had done nothing wrong. The commander later called us to apologize for the misunderstanding and he had the young cop call us to apologize for his rudeness, which he did in tears. We could have pressed charges.
The hospital thought she was a Russian prostitute. The hospital staff
a) thought a Russian hooker wasn’t worth saving;
b) was afraid she’d skip out without paying the bill;
and/or c) just didn’t want to deal with a foreigner.
This is absolute deplorable, especially the hospital’s attitude towards her. Even if she was a Russian prostitute, they should have treated her as they would any other human beings. The name of this hospital should be made public to be held accountable for its mistreatment of its patients.
And I’m beginning to think that these “one room” apartments are seroius design flaws in terms of crime prevention, and further construction of such apartments should be discouraged. Perhaps Koreans, especially the women, should start thinking about getting roommates than living alone, and multi-room apartments affordable to the young working class should also be made available.
she could probably sue for lots and lots and lots…but, wait, she’s in Korea.
settle for the tv show appearances.
Korea indeed has a horrible reputation for the abuse and general inequality it tolerates on and towards women.
As a husband of a women living in Korea and a father of a daughter growing up in Korea, I have suddenly become much more concerned as a result of this post. Until now, I had not been acutely aware of incidents like the ones described on this post and the comments on the post.
I’ve chalked up a big one in the “cons” column of living in Korea with my family
Also, I’m sure I’ll be very unpopular to many for saying this, but one of the main drivers of the lack of empathy towards women’s safety, especially sexual assault and rape, is the widespread acceptance of the “sexual exploitation of women”’s culture, which includes, but is not limited to:
-prostitution
-business room salons
-half-naked women who advertise new stores
-general view of women as sex objects
Yet, any one of the three (preferably all) would greatly improve the situation:
a) Women refusing to be treated like sex objects
b) Men respecting women as equals
c) Law enforcement officials taking violent crimes against women seriously
To the men:
Besides treating women in our lives as equals and respecting their safety and their right to their own bodies, one of the things we can do is to boycott prostitutes, women’s room salons, and blatant displays of women as sex objects, such as the “racing girls”.
I’m not claiming to be a perfect angel myself, but I do try to treat women how I prefer to be treated myself - to be respected as a person rather than a thing.
-David
#15..You’re exactly right. The same attitudes persist here even against their own. A Korean lady friend of mine who works at a Book/DVD rental shop in Daegu was assaulted a few months ago and had her bad stolen while on her way home from work. The shop where she works closes at 1 AM and the incident happened on a weekday. When the police responded to her call, the officer in charge told her that she shouldn’t have been out so late in the first place. They took her name/number down but basically told her not to expect any resolution in the matter. The bottom line is that women, unless well connected, have little regard or protection by the local authorities in Korea. More often than not, they are made to feel like they are the gulty party. It’s insane.
#14 pretty much captures what the whole law-enforcement scene here is about. Unless you have friends in high places, the Korean police do not care about pursuing justice for foreigners. And heaven help you if you end up on the wrong side of a complaint.
#35,36
Many people don’t know this, but a law was passed a couple of years ago that allows citizens to sue cops for compensation if they were rude or just not helpful to them.
That happened in my case, but how are you gonna prove it? Again, it’ll be whitey’s word against that of a Korean. At least I didn’t get the fuck smacked out of me like one of the other guys involved.
Jesus, times have fricken’ changed, it seems Korea has gotten more dangerous for girls in the past few years. Whatever happened to beating up the boyfriend in order to look cooler or where the girls would have a field day wacking the guy for kicks and he’d just be taking it like a pup?
One thing I’d like to clarify though, is the terms “rights” that’s being used. I don’t think there is any lack of rights primary on women, because if the same happened to a dude I doubt law enforcement would be any better (if anything, worse). It’s simply that preemptive protection and law enforcement is weak.
Why I mention this is because I usually hear how Asian women don’t have a lot of rights and such, when I actually notice that in terms of things such as pay, job security, and education, they tend to have more ‘rights’ than their Western counterparts.
MigukNamja, although the contents of this thread have been aimed at Korea so far, your list seems to be more of a general outcry to everybody, or is it just to Korea? I don’t seem to be able to exclude anything on your list from when I lived in the States, except business room salons would be more like the shadier strip joints or call girls. Because, IMO, in the west, again from my experience (which might not be saying much), your average guy tends to hold less equal views towards women than in many other places in the world, as it wasn’t uncommon for me to hear phrases like, “Man, you gonna let her whip you like that?”, when the spouse would demand a request, whereas in other places like in Korea, such a thing is more accepted.
I always held the view that I do feel more safe with my wife walking around in Seoul at 1am than say in Chicago or NYC, and I still have a feeling that it is still the same, except that it’s simply the aftermath (law enforcement, preemptive protection) when dealing with foreigners that really needs a kick in the butt. However, again, I’m not 100% confident as times do change.
Really she has tremendous guts to come out and talk about that. Major props to her.
And yeah, Korea is a very-male orientated country (well that’s a no brainer). If you’re female, it does help if you got the right connections. I guess this is kind of sad, but whenever Korean women talk about women’s rights, while supporters are seen, the women easily get derided for being ‘crazy’ feminists - when what they’re talking about isn’t really that crazy.
As for the feeling safe in Korea thing. I think it’s more of a relative thing. While one country has more of one thing, another country would have less of the other but more of another. But for women, in general, it won’t change that fact that where she goes in the world, because of her gender, she’ll be having look through that prism of thinking about safety at a certain point.
I agree Korea does a poor job of handling assault cases. And what do you do if that assault/ spousal abuse comes from the police chief himself. Who can the woman turn to? The police? This unfortunately was the case of someone’s friend I knew of when I was in Korea. (She ended hiding from him, but I do not know what has happened to her. I hope she is safe and well).
I think it is very easy to feel safe in Korea, whether you are a man or woman. My first few years living in Korea, I felt extremely safe but toward the end of my time there, I started to become quite nervous walking home alone at night and simply just living alone in Korea.
I did not own a car so I often had to walk 15 minutes from the bus stop to my front door. Often times I’d pass groups of drunk men whom I tried to avoid as best I could and other times when the streets were empty, I still felt very nervous.
I don’t know if Korea changed or if I had changed during my five years there, but during my last few months in Korea, whenever I had to take a taxi at night, I took the more expensive Deluxe taxis as they were supposedly safer. In the beginning, I would never think twice of walking home alone at night or taking a regular taxi but that changed over the years for some reason. (Actually, I think it changed when I began to understand Korean better and realized what taxi drivers in particular were saying to me.)
In my case, I did not physically stand out as a foreigner — if that makes a difference. And I’m not sure if it does as I have heard stories and have witnessed incidents involving Korean women as well. Most were domestic cases, though but that doesn’t make the risk less real.
I realize that assault can and does happen in any country. I think the thing with Korea though is that for some reason, it is easier to feel a false sense of security compared to other places.
I would say something, but I can already see strings of “TU QUOQUE!” and “DEFLECTION!” responses a mile away, so I’m not even going to bother.
…
F*ck it.
My central thesis: Gender inequality is a global phenomenon. While some comments here may not have the intention of implying that Koreans are inherently “wife-beating and/or demeaning women”, considering the other comments induced from such statements you are nevertheless contributing to the horribly unfair and inaccurate conclusions.
Metaphoric example -
“Black guys beat their wives.”
Responses:
1. “That’s racist!” (Obviously.)
2. “Domestic violence is a widespread crisis that has nothing to do with race or social institutions.” (Logical)
Counter-responses:
1. No it’s not. a) [statistics and/or articles] b) Name-calling and labeling won’t win you arguments. c) typical foul-calling by black-apologists.
2. You’re deflecting the argument. I’m talking about the general problem that at least I can see among black people and their lack of respect for women (and their safety).
Do the counter-responses sound bad enough? Because that’s what most of you sound like right now.
“I’ve seen six women, with my own eyes, get beaten in the streets here.”
From the number of admittance in the DV shelter I volunteer at (and the severity of the injuries), I think I can just refer to the response #2.
“but whenever Korean women talk about women’s rights, while supporters are seen, the women easily get derided for being ‘crazy’ feminists - when what they’re talking about isn’t really that crazy.”
You’re right. That’s why the term Femi-nazi was coined by Koreans and became a loanword for Americans. And the other day, women’s studies professors were totally NOT verbally attacked by frat boys on ASU campus for being, and I’m quoting, “crazy motherf*cking feminist b*tches”.
“-prostitution
-business room salons
-half-naked women who advertise new stores
-general view of women as sex objects”
. . .
You’re right. Very exclusive to Korea indeed. Because last time I turned on the TV, I only got PAX-TV as the only broadcast channel available. Oh, and Happy Ending just means that the masseuse puts in extra effort during the session, Lap Dance means dancing while doing laps around your jogging course, and Girls Gone Wild is a documentary about feral girls living in the Amazon rain forest.
Hey… so when I get married, am I going to beat my wife in public and grab random girls’ boobs as well? Great… I hate my genetic sequences that inherently makes me so sexist… DAMN YOU, GENETIC PROGRAMMING OF MY BEHAVIOR!!! Only if I wasn’t a Korean…
Oh well, time to go kick my girlfriend in the uterus.
Not surprised to hear of such treatment from the police, hospitals, etc.
It’s good she’s so brave to share her story.
One question: On her page she mentions seeing a photo of the “Taejon serial rapist” who was caught in 2005. Anyone know where one can see a pic of this guy? I’d love to know if he’s the same asshole who robbed and tried to rape me (broke into my hotel room)back in Taejon back in 2002.
I hadn’t given him much thought over the years. More than 5 years later, the bulk of my outrage is saved for the useless police. It would be nice to know that he’s in jail.
On the other hand, I’d be even more pissed off at the police for not taking the evidence I tried to give them back in 2002.
refer to wjk’s statement on Japanese culture influence on South Korea.
the defntn of rape has changed in the last 30 years in the US?
wasn’t there a Civil Rights act passed in 1964? And a disabilities act passed in 1990 or so in the US?
hmm. sounds like pretty much recent changes in the US of A.
give Korea its fair time. It will come. Your making more nonsense by saying it’s inherent in Koreans.
just don’t generalize and say your grandpa, grandma was never racist, never sexist, never discriminatory, etc. Stats alone should prove yourself a lier, revising family history and truth itself so everything matches with what you were told is right from schooling. Your grandpa/grandma in the US may still be racist, sexist, etc.
Robert did mention he’d rather hear women’s opinions on the matter. I don’t mind if women comes forth with descriptions of what its like to be a woman, foreign or otherwise, in Korea, because it stands to reason that a woman would know more about that than a man would, right? I do have a problem when its mostly expat MALES chiming in with their little 2 cents.
#46…I don’t think anyone is trying to imply Korea is anymore racist or sexist than any other country. I’m sure women everywhere encounter the same grab asses and other problems no matter where they may reside.
What seems to be a problem unique to Korea though is the refusal to medically treat a woman who was brutally assaulted based on her race/nationality as reported in this thread. If a Korean woman was refused treatment at a US hospital simply because the medical staff thought she was a prostitiute, the netizens would be making a lot more noise than you’ve seen the expats discuss here.
Sometimes the Korean folks on this board should try a little introspection or better yet self-criticism when these matters are addressed rather than blindly defending the problems that exist in Korea or pointing fingers at others. I think the reason so many of these problems continue to exist in Korea is because Koreans seem to be unable to absorb any criticism even from themselves. You can’t correct a problem in society if you deny having one in the first place.
And yes I do realize that every country, especially the US has it’s share of problems too but you won’t see me blindly defending everything USA. I’ll be the first to criticize the problems we have. That’s the first step in solving said problems. You should try it. Ya don’t fix a leaky roof by saying your neighbor’s roof leaks too.
I absolutely agree with wjk. I’ve seen that in this and several other threads, he lays the blame for the ills of Korean society on the doorstep of Japan. And he’s right. Rising sexual assaults, and all other problems within Korean society are the sole fault of Japan and its mighty, powerful, irresistable culture.
Japanese culture is so strong, so incredible, so unstoppable and influential, that Koreans are powerless against it.
But in addition to the almighty Japanese cultural influence, we must also remember that because Koreans are so weak, impressionable, and lack creativity of their own, that they must continually bow down to the great strength and overpowering influence of the Japanese. Koreans, you see, have no choice in the matter. They are so intimidated and awed by the power of Japan that they must humbly and meekly accept all Japanese influence into their own culture. They cannot resist, for it is futile.
Please don’t blame Koreans for this. It’s not their fault that they’re spineless, frightened pussies, unable to make rational choices about what they choose to integrate into their own culture and what they reject.
Thank you wjk, for reminding everyone here about what a great, powerful, mighty force Japanese culture is, while also making it crystal clear that you believe that your fellow Koreans are such feeble-minded, weak, lame, impotent sheep…like little scared children pissing their pants at the mere thought of the Japanese.
It’s about time the truth came out, and only wjk can deliver it.
# 47 Right, even the so-called expat-community, at least the blogging community, is male-driven, just like Korean culture in general. Plus, it’s American driven, too. Walking the streets of Manhattan just be myself I felt much more scared than I ever did in Seoul (partly due to the poor lighting and missing neon signs), and, for that matter, than in any German city. I’ve always felt safe here. But it’s a different sense of security. Even when I don’t feel particularly safe in Europe or the States, it is not for some guys who view me as a pure sexual object that can just be consumed. It is rather a general feeling of fear that has nothing to do with my gender (except that I would appear to be physically weaker than most guys). Also, feelings of fear, at least in Germany, are restricted to night-time and to certain areas of town (Germany has very few no-go areas, btw). I think any guy walking by himself would feel the same fear. But in Korea, horny ajosshis are everywhere.
I have had only one strange experience in Korea, plus a handful of guys giving me weird looks. That one time, I was in a special Shamanist area in the north of Seoul (can’t remember the name as of now), walking around the woods with my white, female friend, when a guy was passing us who seemed like he tried to make us understand that he was going to pray or something. Very weird, I tried to get rid of him, speaking to him in (a rather limited) Korean. Later, we saw this guy naked, just wearing sneakers and socks, and since we believed it was a special style of praying (maybe this area was reserved for men… what did we know? We were trying to be culturally understanding, and we even saw a western guy in a distance taking off his shirt, it was a hot day, so maybe guys did come here for some special purpose), so we were trying to pass him, but he didn’t let us. So we went back and decided to wait until he would let us pass, but after a moment he followed us, and he got so close to me that we finally realized that all this guy wanted was — a blow job? and we ran off with beating hearts. The guy wasn’t threatening at all, he was just crazy.
So, I’ve been very luck so far, and I never understood why some of my obviously very caring male Korean friends were worried when I took a taxi back home, alone. I’ve heard from almost all my female friends that they were taken for Russian prostitutes, that guys shouted curses at them, and so on.
I think the problem of Korean society is that sex is readily available anywhere you go, and that a woman is regarded as an object. I hate Korean dramas for the female role model they purport. And as of Korean women claiming their rights: You cannot claim anything you don’t know. Korean women, unless they know lots about foreign cultures and have lived abroad, don’t know any better. It’s their fate to accept their men go to room-salons and the like, but having no right to do so themselves (in theory). I hate my status as a woman in Korea.
# 48 No, I haven NEVER EVER had any weird experience like that in my home country, which is Germany.
let me ask you, Les Boules Bleues,
Honestly, ok?
Why is Mexican tv formatted so much like American tv?
Honestly, why are Mexican talk shows pretty much like Povich, Winfrey, Montel, when Korea has nothing like it?
sex is powerful.
Kings were swayed by women, causing wars. An idiot in Korea has assaulted this lady because of his demented drive.
Some of you guys jack off every single day, or not, in case of you, BB.
Release it, fool.
Man, I feel bad for this woman. Good thing she made it into the bathroom. I wonder why he kept hitting her? What’s wrong with that sick fuck?
Why didn’t the neighbors call the police? I’m curious about this part, “He went into my kitchen to get a knife and I knew it was my chance to get away.” I wonder how she knew he was going to get a knife?
(Tawana Brawley! haha!)
@52
The neighbors didn’t call the police because the neighbors never call the police. They probably mistook it for a domestic dispute anyway, which is a “private matter,” not one for the authorities to become involved with.
my point was these kind of attitudes aren’t exclusive to koreans. let’s not forget that.
Indeed.
If there is any generalization to be made, it is that men are far more violent to women than women are to men and that, far more often.
53. The neighbors said they were too afraid to help. If they wanted to help they should have called the police or went to other neighbors, or something. They probably knew she was living alone.
Wjk, there’s no need to argue with me. I’m on your side. We both agree that Koreans are far too weak to resist powerful Japanese culture. Korea would be a perfect, utopian society if it weren’t for the evil influence of the Japanese. These are indisputable facts.
Good for you for being brave enough to admit that Koreans are weak, defenseless sheep when it comes to swallowing every nefarious cultural cock that the Japanese shove down their throats.
It may be difficult to admit weakness and bow to the power of the Japanese, but it would be far more difficult to hold Koreans responsible for their own behavior, actions, and culture. Just keep blaming Japan and everything will be juuuuuust fine.
i think the problem is Korean men like looking at Japanese pussy, and not Korean women loving Japanese cock, to speak your lingo, bb.
bb, do you do this before or after banging your poor Korean girl who left Korea to be rescued by you?
you still haven’t visited the Mexican tv copying American tv culture issue, nor do you see any parallel between Korean entertainment paralleing Japanese.
It is my conjecture that even Mexican porn culture is roughly like that of US porn.
Are Mexicans weak and sheepish, and basically blamers of the US on every issue?
How about the Canadians?
let it be known. Blueballs likes to diss Korea on every issue, but in between the bed sheets, all he does is ejaculate against a Korean.
this is one reason why you are not liked. You sleep with our women and teach us right and wrong.
the natural reaction is, shut up and leave.
what if I married a Latin American, and all I did was tell my kid all the negatives of Latin America?
I would never do that.
And with that, children, we’ve set a new blog record for bad taste.
Besides, I’m sure that’s not all he does.
i’m sorry I offended blueballs, and I apologize to you, blueballs, but what if anything that blueballs writes is subjectively in good taste when read by Koreans?
he never gets negatives.
only accolades and applause.
“The hospital thought she was a Russian prostitute. The hospital staff
a) thought a Russian hooker wasn’t worth saving;
b) was afraid she’d skip out without paying the bill;
and/or c) just didn’t want to deal with a foreigner.”
Yes, but is that what the hospital spokesman actually said? Who was the spokesman? At which hospital did this occur? Where is the hospital side of the story? All these things are relevant if something like this is made sure doesn’t get repeated.
Thanks for your input nuna, and btw, I just checked your blog and those are some fantastic pictures!
thanks # 65!
discussion has taken a wicked turn, though.
why do koreans like misuda? and why does EVERY korean whom i meet for the first time tell me to appear in that show? apparently, i fit the two requirements: foreign & hot (not sure about the last one). this is not what i want to be reduced to. i won’t go on tv just for money and fame.
however, making that comment is completely in vain because nobody seems to be wanting to talk about what this post was originately about.
let’s cut to the chase with regards to ‘misuda’:
korean men + willing foreign women + tv show = angry expat.
that’s all one need to know.
“why do koreans like misuda?”
I don’t, and I know crapload of Koreans who find it too
1) stupid
2) racist
3) pointless
4) shamelessly over-nationalistic
5) R.E.T.A.R.D.E.D. guest panels (though apparently this changed recently)
6) Sexist
etc. etc. (I personally fall under category 1,2,5, and 6)
Quite a handful of the people appearing on that show are TV actress hopefuls. Kudos to them for finding effective ways to get their faces out in the media.
WJK: They are not YOUR women. They are not “things” you can own. You may believe the opposite, but in the real world, that’s the way it is.
pawikigori let’s cut to the chase about most Korean men:
Foreign men + Korean women= racist BS from Korean men.
Why isn’t there a TV show about foreign men dating Korean women? Oh, I think I know the answer.
Hines Ward’s mother has some interesting insights about Korea. You should read up on what she has to say pawikigori. You might learn something about yourself.
Why isn’t there a TV show about foreign men dating Korean women?
WAH! I want a lollypop too! WAAAH!
@64:
Now that Ms. Raymond’s story has been told in the media, one would expect the hospital to issue a public statement if any of the allegations were inaccurate. So far it hasn’t.
Wow, those are great photos on nuna’s site. Thanks for the mention, arthjourneyman!
And cm, the reason Ms. Raymond won’t name the hospital is probably because, as Brendon has reminded us so many times, the truth is no defense against defamation charges, and lawyers like Brendon like to get paid.
Lawyers are only concerned about pay because we’re concerned about food and rent, and salaries for the people we employ. We can only help clients if we can stay in business, and compete on the open market for staff.
The terrible thing about “defaming” a large organization like a hospital, or a powerful individual, is that the damages can be so much larger than would be awarded to an ordinary individual.
Well, the American telenovellas I can do without, but would someone tip me off as to where I can find the (apparently original) American version of Sabado Gigante?
Sabado Gigante can be found on Univision where it’s been a staple since the 1980’s. Where you can find Univision is up to you; I heard it’s broadcast free over the air in some American cities, as well as being a staple of satellite packages.
You have no idea what a metaphor is, do you?
My wife would like everyone to know that the 35-45 seconds of lovemaking that occur before I ejaculate “against” her are not only satisfying, but magnificent.
I could care less about Mexico unless I’m drinking $0.50 Coronas on the Mayan Riviera.
Of course I see the parallel. It’s impossible not to see the rampant ripping off of Japanese culture in Korea, as well as plenty of vice-versa. But just because I see it doesn’t mean I blame Japan for it!
Cultural imperialism is a shame-based myth, dreamed up by professional victims to shift blame and scapegoat their own shortcomings and embarrassing (in their own nationalistic heads), hypocritical embrace of a foreign culture at the expense of their own. It does not exist unless it is enforced by the barrel of a gun. If this were 1930, you would have an argument. But it’s not, so quit peddling victimhood, it’s tired.
The traditions and culture brought to Korea by the Japanese in the early 20th century that are still maintained to this day in Korea, are done so because Koreans consciously choose to keep them. Japanese is not the official language of Korea, because Koreans chose to discard it.
Every Japanese cultural influence that continues to thrive in Korea today exists because of the choice and the will of the Korean people. Period. And your habitual Japan blame-game makes Koreans look like obedient saps who can’t stop bowing to the will of Japan 52 years after they stopped pointing the gun, which would seem to be the ultimate slap in the face to most Koreans.
Our women, eh? Funny, my wife didn’t come with a pink slip.
Please. Playground feces-flinging is not offensive. You’ve got to come up with something extremely clever, insightful, biting, and true to offend me…and you’ll never be accused of employing any of those in your prose, so don’t ever worry about offending me or apologizing. You’re simply not capable of that achievement. Few are.
I want to talk about a few things and will do it as carefully as possible.
It is hard being in the position I am in. I want to talk. I want to share my rage and yet, I need to be careful knowing that this is not my country #1 and #2, I am one person who is standing against large organizations in telling my story, the truth.
First of all, I would like to address the show itself. Without naming any specific names, I would like to say how I became involved and where I stand today. I can’t speak Korean perfectly. And yet a friend submitted my application for the show without my knowledge. The show called, I went in to talk with them, I was hired. At that point, I was only in Korea for the summer doing my internship at a law firm and thought that I would like to extend my time here.
Before I was on the show, I only caught a glimpse of it once. And my opinion of it was close to what many of you now feel. And yet I thought, I would do the show for 3 reasons. #1 when I am a grandmother I can tell the story of being on Korean TV to my grandchildren and they will be able to laugh, #2 I thought that I wanted to try to change the image of girls on the show and represent the USA in a good light and #3, I hoped that I would have the opportunity to tell my story. I had and have no intention of moving on into short-lived F-list Korean celebritydom and always planned on returning to the USA after one semester here. And so I was on.
I admit the show can be a bit humiliating, but you suck it up in the name of fun. Life is fun and silly and stupid and I truly don’t feel that the PDs, guests or host think of us as stupid foreign objects. Yes, they make us dance. Yes, we talk about many “silly” things, but that is more in the name of ratings than anything else. Watch Korean variety shows, they make Korean celebrities do equally strange and otherwise degrading things. Also, most of what is on the show is written by the members individually. We are asked questions and we prepare our own answers. So we can say what we want. The editing, however, that is out of our control.
In viewing the show as a hobby, not as my career goal, it is fine to be on and actually enjoyable. Many of the girls on the show, most I should say, are extremely terrific, smart, and well-rounded girls. Most are real Koreanists, like myself, and that is why it is great to be around them. In “real life” these girls have opinions, good and bad, about Korea and recognize what they are on the show to do, their role per se. I would say that many of the girls also have career goals beyond the show and currently are working for them.
I believe a great thing about the show is the fact that we are allowed to say what we want to say. And because we are on TV, people will listen. 2.5 years ago, no one would listen after I was attacked. NO media outlet would cover my story or even print a description of the suspect without naming the fact that a foreigner was involved. I spent a year of my life recovering physically and emotionally from the incident, while also getting online, blogging, sending emails to bloggers, media — asking anyone to listen. What is the biggest tragedy from my story is the fact that a girl (Korean) was murdered only a few minutes walk from my apt, only a few weeks after I was attacked. She died from similar injuries as well.
Yes, although the hospital incident was deplorable, I do not wish to seek any compensation from them. Now they know its out there, the people who mistreated me have their consciences and their God to answer to. The more important issue, which is why, from day one, I wanted to talk, is the issue of victims rights here in Korea. And the fact that there really are none. And the fact that people here still think criminals can be excused because they are “crazy” or “drunk” or… other untold excuses. The fact is, a man, who attacked me, still remains free in society to hurt someone else. The fact is, the man who attacked me could have been caught. I truly believe he could have. But he wasn’t and that same man most likely murdered that other girl and remains free to hurt others. The sad fact in Korea, is that there is little we can do…. as of now. And I am hoping to change that. And that is why I talked. Most importantly, I feel that one of the most horrible feelings victims go through is the feeling of being alone in their pain and suffering. And that is why I talked. I talked for the foreign women here who are victims and are mistreated. I talked for the Korean women who deal with their pain in shame and silence.
The sad thing in this whole matter is the timing of my story on the show. I am sure everyone knows the show that I told my story was also the debut of someone else. I do not want to make judgments about someone I do not know and so I will not. The way a person chooses to portray themselves is her own choice, so more power to her. The fact that she can walk down the street knowing she puts herself out there as a sexual object again, more power to her. We all know how rich Paris Hilton has gotten doing the same. However, how ironic that on the same show where I talk about a story that happened because of the terrible stereotypes women have in Korea, the show puts on that.
Good for for the show. The ratings will go crazy. I am just happy that the show provided my the platform to speak out. Hopefully something can come out of it.
Thanks Winter for commenting on the blog. You have tremendous courage, and I think you are the only redeeming aspect about that show. Of course you have your life to lead, and an important degree to pursue. Now you have some publicity though. Why don’t you use it by taking on that racist and sexist hospital, or helping to get a victim’s rights law passed anyway. From what I’ve seen during my 15 years here, Korea is a place where you’re rewarded for being assertive.
Thank you for sharing your experience, both on Misuda, on your minihompi and on this blog.
Winter, thanks also for the first-hand account and your view of the show. I understand the dilemma over the value of the platform and the inherently childish nature of it vs your desire to get your story out. Not an easy call.
Unfortunately, Jamila and her tell-me dance are going to sweep the nation, she’ll be on Korean dramas and doing commercials in no time, and your very real, very relevant, very important story will not get the attention it deserves. It really is a shame, but anyone expecting substantive issues to compete with rubber hammers and stupid dances in Korea is hopelessly naive.
blueballs, I sure hope that’s a plastic thing you got there, the picture is pretty inappropriate to the topic of this thread.
I hate to be cynical Winter, but I have to wonder if it wasn’t a coincidence that the show put you on at the same time as Jamila, to counter criticism from women’s groups or the foreign community about portrayal of foreign women as loose sex toys. I hope that you can use the show, rather than the other way around, and not allow it to dilute your message.
blueballs, americans used to have a lot of the same attitudes you see in koreans today. people change. sometimes, people change because others demand that they change. sometimes, people change because of people like ms winter speaking out about a subject nobody wants to talk about. be patient. you’re probably not old enough to see how korean attitudes have changed in just a short period of time. i mean, c’mon, harisu? i know you love korea. be patient.
now, for the rest of you:
‘why don’t they have us men on the show?’
well, because you’re men, that’s why. you don’t understand that as you constantly rant about korean men? you understand it fine.
btw, can you tell me about any major shows here in the states where a black man and white women are the leads? nope. now, if white american men have problems including men of color (15% of america), how the hell would you expect korean men to include you (.01% of korea)?
i think we need a little less whine with dinner.
Somewhat more than .01%, but anyway.
I agree with you and would say too it’s high time Asian American men quit their ceaseless whining about media representation.
So, Pawi, I guess we can conclude that you would be all in favor