Comments on: Don’t Get Mad. Get Even! http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/ Korea... in Blog Format Fri, 9 Jan 2009 05:26:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: mcnut http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118601 mcnut Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:26:03 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118601 Yeah I am not buying the foreigners have the same rights in the legal system here either. It may be better than before but everyone knows this society will bribe, cheat, lie to do whatever it takes and being the foreigner you will always be seen as the outsider. Korea thinks it's homogeneous (never was) but this is deeply rooted and will play into right vs wrong Korean vs foreigner. Yeah ZenKimchi may have won but how many lost? Using that one case as an example is not a true representation of reality. Yeah I am not buying the foreigners have the same rights in the legal system here either. It may be better than before but everyone knows this society will bribe, cheat, lie to do whatever it takes and being the foreigner you will always be seen as the outsider.

Korea thinks it’s homogeneous (never was) but this is deeply rooted and will play into right vs wrong Korean vs foreigner.

Yeah ZenKimchi may have won but how many lost? Using that one case as an example is not a true representation of reality.

]]> By: dokdoforever http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118596 dokdoforever Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:54:37 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118596 OK, instead of "foreigners" how about the name "international residents." A nicer ring than "non-Koreans" or "immigrants." OK, instead of “foreigners” how about the name “international residents.” A nicer ring than “non-Koreans” or “immigrants.”

]]> By: Robert Koehler http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118585 Robert Koehler Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:20:05 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118585 <blockquote>I recommend that the English teachers in Korea make more effort to teaching and less effort to drinking, drugs, kiddy fiddling, and being fat so they don’t need to be worrying about being on this list.</blockquote> Hey, dude, when in Rome. Except for maybe the fat part. <blockquote>HA, HA, HA!!! More like foreigners will receive an unfair shake in almost all cases. What Planet Do You Live on?</blockquote> Hey, ZenKimchi took his hagwon owner to court and won. Why not you?

I recommend that the English teachers in Korea make more effort to teaching and less effort to drinking, drugs, kiddy fiddling, and being fat so they don’t need to be worrying about being on this list.

Hey, dude, when in Rome. Except for maybe the fat part.

HA, HA, HA!!! More like foreigners will receive an unfair shake in almost all cases. What Planet Do You Live on?

Hey, ZenKimchi took his hagwon owner to court and won. Why not you?

]]> By: tbonetylr http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118571 tbonetylr Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:48:15 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118571 #14 "Foreigners have the same rights as a Korean (excepting the visa issue), and if you go to court you’ll get the same shake — in almost all cases (there are some bigots to be found even on the bench) — as a Korean" HA, HA, HA!!! More like foreigners will receive an unfair shake in almost all cases. What Planet Do You Live on? Why do you use the word 'foreigners?' You should practice what you preach! #14
“Foreigners have the same rights as a Korean (excepting the visa issue), and if you go to court you’ll get the same shake — in almost all cases (there are some bigots to be found even on the bench) — as a Korean”

HA, HA, HA!!! More like foreigners will receive an unfair shake in almost all cases. What Planet Do You Live on?

Why do you use the word ‘foreigners?’ You should practice what you preach!

]]> By: SomeguyinKorea http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118364 SomeguyinKorea Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:36:34 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118364 "I recommend that the English teachers in Korea make more effort to teaching and less effort to drinking, drugs, kiddy fiddling, and being fat so they don’t need to be worrying about being on this list." ...and trolls should stay under their bridge. “I recommend that the English teachers in Korea make more effort to teaching and less effort to drinking, drugs, kiddy fiddling, and being fat so they don’t need to be worrying about being on this list.”

…and trolls should stay under their bridge.

]]> By: Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118305 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) Thu, 15 Nov 2007 05:24:23 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118305 <blockquote>However, a question for Mr. Carr: How does pro bono work in Korea compare to that of say the US? Or for that matter lawyers willing to work on contingency? In the states, we have bulldog lawyers that would sue your mother for overcooking your steak if they thought they could get a contingency out of it. I could be wrong, and stand corrected if I am, that contingency is just not done here.</blockquote> Pro bono work is done here in Korea by Korean lawyers and by me myself. It's just that <i>I</i> get to choose what I take on for free. And there is an element of whether or not the lawyer can afford to take a given matter -- sometimes the timing is just wrong and the lawyer needs to concentrate more on making sure he has enough money to pay the rent. Contingency is surely done here too. But contingency practice depends on the availability of a quantum of damages which allows for the plaintiff to recover enough to compensate the lawyer both for the work <b>and</b> for the risk of not prevailing. And Korean damage awards in personal matters are really crummy. Twenty-five percent of (a probably uncollectible award of) W2,000,000 -- <i>if</i> we win, and are so lucky as to be able to collect the award -- is not enticing enough to motivate any lawyer to get out of bed. My partner Doil is handling a contingent-fee case which he's probably going to lose. But if he wins, the fee will be W4,000,000,000 (US$4.4 million) because the property being fought over is valuable. As I always say in these circumstances, a lawyer can <b>work</b> and not get paid, or <b>not work</b> and not get paid. As for me, unless the case is really compelling and I can afford to take it at that moment, I think I'll sleep in or catch up on some reading. And I'd bet that's why you don't see a contingency-based plaintiff's bar here.

However, a question for Mr. Carr: How does pro bono work in Korea compare to that of say the US? Or for that matter lawyers willing to work on contingency? In the states, we have bulldog lawyers that would sue your mother for overcooking your steak if they thought they could get a contingency out of it. I could be wrong, and stand corrected if I am, that contingency is just not done here.

Pro bono work is done here in Korea by Korean lawyers and by me myself. It’s just that I get to choose what I take on for free. And there is an element of whether or not the lawyer can afford to take a given matter — sometimes the timing is just wrong and the lawyer needs to concentrate more on making sure he has enough money to pay the rent.

Contingency is surely done here too. But contingency practice depends on the availability of a quantum of damages which allows for the plaintiff to recover enough to compensate the lawyer both for the work and for the risk of not prevailing. And Korean damage awards in personal matters are really crummy. Twenty-five percent of (a probably uncollectible award of) W2,000,000 — if we win, and are so lucky as to be able to collect the award — is not enticing enough to motivate any lawyer to get out of bed.

My partner Doil is handling a contingent-fee case which he’s probably going to lose. But if he wins, the fee will be W4,000,000,000 (US$4.4 million) because the property being fought over is valuable.

As I always say in these circumstances, a lawyer can work and not get paid, or not work and not get paid. As for me, unless the case is really compelling and I can afford to take it at that moment, I think I’ll sleep in or catch up on some reading. And I’d bet that’s why you don’t see a contingency-based plaintiff’s bar here.

]]> By: Blacklisted? Recourse Available : Socius in Daejeon http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118303 Blacklisted? Recourse Available : Socius in Daejeon Thu, 15 Nov 2007 05:21:37 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118303 [...] Marmot has picked up on this post about suing the KFTRA for being blacklisted (which is illegal and defamatory under [...] [...] Marmot has picked up on this post about suing the KFTRA for being blacklisted (which is illegal and defamatory under [...]

]]> By: fencerider http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118298 fencerider Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:26:09 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118298 Great dialogue going on here....I'm just a little depressed that I can't get the traffic on MY site :) I didn't even know there was a discussion going on about it here because for some reason the trackbacks didn't work. But its's nice to get talked about nonetheless. I have to agree with Mr. Carr about dealing with the hagwon directors as well as his comments about the legal system here. Just because everything is in Korean doesn't make you a victim. It just makes you work harder to get justice. However, a question for Mr. Carr: How does pro bono work in Korea compare to that of say the US? Or for that matter lawyers willing to work on contingency? In the states, we have bulldog lawyers that would sue your mother for overcooking your steak if they thought they could get a contingency out of it. I could be wrong, and stand corrected if I am, that contingency is just not done here. One other major problem is the complacency of English teachers as a group. An valliant attempt was made to form a legal action group for foreign teachers through EFL-Law.com and its founders but it failed miserably due to 'lack of interest.' (read: everybody wanted it for free instead of paying a membership fee). The result is the forum that I linked (which is actually a transfer from the original EFL-Law.com or .org that was shut down) is now the best source (maybe the only) of information for foriegn teachers looking for job and legal advice. Great dialogue going on here….I’m just a little depressed that I can’t get the traffic on MY site :) I didn’t even know there was a discussion going on about it here because for some reason the trackbacks didn’t work. But its’s nice to get talked about nonetheless.

I have to agree with Mr. Carr about dealing with the hagwon directors as well as his comments about the legal system here. Just because everything is in Korean doesn’t make you a victim. It just makes you work harder to get justice. However, a question for Mr. Carr: How does pro bono work in Korea compare to that of say the US? Or for that matter lawyers willing to work on contingency? In the states, we have bulldog lawyers that would sue your mother for overcooking your steak if they thought they could get a contingency out of it. I could be wrong, and stand corrected if I am, that contingency is just not done here.

One other major problem is the complacency of English teachers as a group. An valliant attempt was made to form a legal action group for foreign teachers through EFL-Law.com and its founders but it failed miserably due to ‘lack of interest.’ (read: everybody wanted it for free instead of paying a membership fee). The result is the forum that I linked (which is actually a transfer from the original EFL-Law.com or .org that was shut down) is now the best source (maybe the only) of information for foriegn teachers looking for job and legal advice.

]]> By: swlee http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118191 swlee Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:24:03 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118191 I recommend that the English teachers in Korea make more effort to teaching and less effort to drinking, drugs, kiddy fiddling, and being fat so they don't need to be worrying about being on this list. I recommend that the English teachers in Korea make more effort to teaching and less effort to drinking, drugs, kiddy fiddling, and being fat so they don’t need to be worrying about being on this list.

]]> By: Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/comment-page-1/#comment-118167 Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog) Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:06:41 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/14/dont-get-mad-get-even/#comment-118167 Korean NGOs or "civic groups" collect money from their members, and from sympathetic corporations (usually via threat) as well as from the government. Some of this money gets spent on the lawyers who do their bidding with the lawsuits. What I propose is similar to formation of an ad-hoc NGO. Korean NGOs or “civic groups” collect money from their members, and from sympathetic corporations (usually via threat) as well as from the government. Some of this money gets spent on the lawyers who do their bidding with the lawsuits.

What I propose is similar to formation of an ad-hoc NGO.

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