Jason Lim discusses singer Steve Yoo, uh, Yoo Seung-joon and the complexities of being a Korean-American. As he concludes, “Korean Americans are only wholly empowered when they are allowed to be both Korean and American. In short, Korean American should not be forced to become an oxymoron.” A controversial subject to be sure, and one on which I’m not sure I agree with Mr. Lim. Which is to say, if I went to Germany and asked that I be accepted as a German because my last name is Koehler, I’d not only expect to be laughed out of the country, I’d expect my own countrymen (i.e., Americans) to start asking questions, too.
Split Loyalties?
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I’m not sure your analogy is correct, Robert. And much as it pains me to say this, I think the reason is because Koreans are special.
OK, stop laughing now and I’ll explain.^^
For one thing, I think their immigration pattern is much more recent than your ancestors. Also, I think they maintain a much tighter bond to the homeland and through language and culture, something that Korean parents push more than others.
That said, I wish Korean Americans would just get over themselves already.
To me, it’s simple: You want to make a gazillion bucks here as a Korean, then pay your dues by serving in the army. This clown wants to have his cake and eat it too.
Fair enough.
I don’t think Koreans are “special” in the regard. Many immigrant groups maintain tight bonds to the homeland through language and culture, especially during initial generations. And I have no problem with immigrant groups taking a particular interest in the affairs of the “old country.” See, for instance, Irish-Americans with Ireland and the Northern Ireland problem. But I think Lim has gone beyond that to suggest that both nations — Korea and the US — should accept split loyalties, which I don’t think they should.
Koehler! Go back to Germland, you Kraut!
Leben Sie wohl!
Jeffery ‘Nativist’ Hodges
* * *
Gyopos, in my experience, can’t help but be opportunistic when the situation garners one mindset is more favorable than the other. It can’t be easy being in limbo between two such different cultures. Some seem to be able to absorb the best and avoid the worst of both cultures. Others…they rap.
Oddly enough, Lim’s point is kind of what I recently tried to explain to dogbertt here:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/10/marmot%e2%80%99s-open-thread-25
(Those) Koreans are like the Asian version of dogbertt!
Ironic. I’m afraid dogbertt has no choice but to ja-sahl now.
How does a Korean know it’s Korean?
In other words, they’re worried about the issue of conflicting loyalties, as am I.
The difference is that those Koreans have less to worry about, because for nearly all Koreans, loyalty to ethnicity will trump citizenship each time.
Ironically, it’s probably true for “Steve” Yoo, too. I doubt that “Steve” feels any great loyalty to the U.S. — he merely obtained U.S. citizenship for his own convenience, like so many Koreans. Not because they have any understanding or appreciation of our history, ideals, and values.
The reason he got in trouble for not entering the Korean army and moving to the US is because he had previously made statements that were essentially critical of that. Had he not made such comments, people wouldn’t have cared.
He also got huge publicity (and therefore benefits) — he milked that statement on like 20 shows (hyperbole). It wasn’t so much that he got U.S. citizenship and gave up Korean, but the hypocrisy behind it.
… at least that’s why I don’t like him.
Robert,
“But I think Lim has gone beyond that to suggest that both nations — Korea and the US — should accept split loyalties, which I don’t think they should.”
Couldn’t agree more. And I have to say that when I read “complexities of being a Korean American” I immediately ignored the piece. To me, that’s about the best warning for drivel that I can imagine.
#8
“In other words, they’re worried about the issue of conflicting loyalties, as am I.”
-But: with various kinds or degrees of logic and sensibility. Sometimes, Koreans are on target. Sometimes they’re off. Lim is able to extract something absurd in general about the Korean reaction; I’d do the same for your example. In essence, then, internally, or psychologically, where it counts, you and they, indeed — “same same.”
FWIW, Yoo can go fuck himself.
That’s not fair and, I’d argue, not accurate. Being a KA is most definitely complex, evidently more so than many groups on the American continent.
(Koreans are not Caucasian, or European — check; we’re Asian, and there’s not a lot of us here — check; we’re not Chinese — check; KAs are Asian-American yet what is AA is often confused with what is Chinese-American — check; KAs tend to be the most brainwashed, Christian bunch of all AAs — check; Did I mention we’re AZN? It counts for something there, bro. Undoubtedly, lots of complexity, or, complex-ity. )
Just because you disagree with me on this point does not make you right and me wrong.
The subject of divided loyalties is extremely relevant in the U.S., for obvious reasons. As is the issue of the incomplete assimilation of various ethnic groups who are very recent immigrants to the U.S., whether they are Somalians, Koreans, or others.
Just because you are a member of one of these groups does not mean you get to shut down the dialogue.
The difference between a KA and a, say KrautAmerikan, is that the Koehler variety doesn’t have a grand-father who decides on his own to put up the grand-son on the family registry, making him a Korean whether he wants it or not, whether he speaks the language or not, and that from a country that forces you to choose between citizenships, and obliges you to go to the Army if you venture into the ancestors’ country.
In Germany, even if you had the Kraut passport on top of a US/ French/ Japanese/ whatever one [ie if you went and like, asked for it, because even if GrossVater wanted the US-born grandson to be German, it just doesn't work this way], they wouldn’t ask you to go and visit the Bundeswehr for 18 months or so. You’re a resident of another country, and you fulfilled your country of residence’s military duty — and in the case of countries like the US that don’t have a draft, that also counts as fulfillment — and let you enjoy life.
But on the other hand, I think it’s time for KAs to let go of the kimchi or the burger, and decide what they are…
I’m going to get all postmodern here and ask why there has to be such a stark duality when it comes to identity? I guess in the Korean sense when some nationalists see identity as a zero sum game there can be resultant conflicts of interest, but from my own POV being a citizen of two countries I find that identifying with both cultures in no way threatens the other. Could it be that when one identity is rooted in ethnicity/blood and the other in values that the conflict arises?
“if I went to Germany and asked that I be accepted as a German because my last name is Koehler, I’d not only expect to be laughed out of the country”
No joke, if you have a German grandfather married to a Russian his descendants had the right to come back from Russia. Nowadays you have to show that you are capable of the German language. But fact is. In Germany are living more than hundred of thousands of “Germans” with Russian as native language.
abcdefg, you know, I’m really glad that you make these posts…in general I held a view closer with that of, “What complexities exist for KA’s that’s different from others”, but again you’ve made me reconsider and think about my experiences again.
One issue which leads many to these dual ties is that it’s inevitable that certain foreign groups cannot have a primary loyalty to America, simply because that all things said and done, they are often not seen as “Americans”.
For example, I know an Asian family who’s lineage in America is most assuredly much longer than most “Americans”, and said current child speaks only one language; English (though he’s soon to learn Spanish soon).
However, he will often get asked the question of, “What’s yer nationality? What? American? No, I mean…where’s yer pap from? Err…no where’s your paps pap from? huh, no… are ya Chinese or Vietnamese?”
Of course, if you ask a second generation Polish kid, Black, or quite possibly even a Cuban kid the same question, I would not be surprised for the answer, “I’m American!”, to suffice where previously it didn’t.
Understandably, it’s partly because there are many foreigners from places with a powerful enough culture that is difficult to let go the mindset that exists, but regardless, it is a double standard.
The Koreans are lined up at embassies trying to escape from the place, yet they get prickly when one such as Christina Kim identifies herself with the “other side” by cheering for America. They’re hypersensitive about overseas adoption and the resulting loss of Korean identity, but they keep shipping the kids off.
Steve Yoo’s behavior is as Korean as those who reject him.
Bum got it half right; there’s enough hypocrisy for all.
Jason Lim’s arguments were coherent and well-presented. That, in and of itself is refreshing.
Last year, I had a chance to meet the top State Department person for North Korea. She spent several years in the embassy in Seoul and commented a little bit about these types of things. She said that at times Koreans would sort of let on that they thought of her as kind of a mole in the embassy. Of course, this was absolutely ridiculous. She gave an oath to the constitution of the United States and there was no question for her of her loyalties. Still, she felt her Korean heritage and appearance had helped her tremendously in her duties as an American Foreign Services officer.
I have come to a similar view. My Korean heritage helps make me a better American. Does it make me a better American than Mr. Koehler? No. And I do not want to imply that. However, my family’s stories about Kwangju in 1980, my cousin’s tales of getting caught up in the mafia-like culture of Hancheongryeon and the way the dictators were removed illustrate to me the truths Americans fought for in the 1770s and 1860s. I better appreciate how significant American freedom is because I have a close connection to a people who, in my own memory, could only dream of such freedom.
Enough symbolic rhetoric. Gotta get to work.
To be fair, and as implied by some, a lot of kyopos consider themselves “American,” not KA (aside from ethnicity), etc., and don’t tow the BS line.
“The Koreans are lined up at embassies trying to escape from the place, yet they get prickly when one such as Christina Kim identifies herself with the “other side” by cheering for America. They’re hypersensitive about overseas adoption and the resulting loss of Korean identity, but they keep shipping the kids off.”
Are these all the same “they” ?
To clear up a few misconceptions about the Yoo Seung Joon story:
Yes, he did milk the Korea media about his army situation. What people need to understand is that the reason why he told everyone that he was going to go to serve in the army was because he thought he HAD to go.
Upon finding out he didn’t, he then changed his mind. Which of course was pretty much betrayal to an entire nation of fans.
To dda:
“But on the other hand, I think it’s time for KAs to let go of the kimchi or the burger, and decide what they are…”
This is a pathetic attempt to be funny. The one thing KA’s SHOULDNT do is pick one or the other, because as the title Korean American suggsts, the identity represents a blend of two cultures.
This probably goes for all hyphenated peoples; you probably should just accept who you are as (for example) a Korean American instead of trying to pick one or the other.
#17,
Many countries offer preferential treatment to descendants of its citizens.
I don’t know if its still the case, but in the 80′s France asked visa applicants if they had French ancestry. Strangely enough, I’ve read that visa applications were apparently processed much faster if you could prove you had ancestors who were French aristocrats.
#23,
Ironically, many of his fans would have done the same thing…which is not necessarily a bad thing. Not everybody makes a good soldier.
… and the most important question of all Mr. Jason Lim is if Han Chae Young is more Rachel Kim because her boobies are more American sized then Korean?…
#26,
It depends. Are they ‘homegrown’ or imported?
Converts are sometimes the most enthusiastic believers, and naturalized citizens are sometimes the most patriotic.
Is Hines Ward still Korean? He didn’t single-handedly win the Super Bowl again (as some Korean publications might have you believe) so I’m curious to know whether he still is or not. I’m sure if he spoke on this matter, Korean nationals would listen to him. He could help clear everything up and turn things around.
Okay, in all seriousness, I kind of wanted to see how this discussion sounded off before making a comment so I can get more of a natural (i.e. honest) feel of what’s on everyone’s mind. I didn’t want any of my early comments influencing what others would want to say. First of all I think Jason Lim’s article was great. Coherent, organized, nonpreachy and logical arguments that are the polar opposite of that Alex Lee’s rants passed off as “editorial” material in the same publication. Then again, what else would one expect from a Harvard Research Fellow?
Anyways, I would consider myself an “hyphenated” American, in my particular case a Korean-American. I’m sure lots of other Americans consider themselves hyphenated such as Indian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Iranian-Americans so on and so forth. I think what part you feel more closer to really depends on the individual and their personal choice. We immigrants after 1945 had a much easier choice on the matter. The German-Americans didn’t have such an easy time. Due to WWI and WWI and the propaganda images of the “Huns” raping Europe a lot of Brauns became Browns, etc. It’s not to mention what kind of “bending” of the Constitution needed to be done to put Japanese-Americans in concentration camps in WWII. There have been very few cases where hyphenated Americans have actually betrayed the nation where they hold citizenship (i.e. Tokyo Rose being one of the very few cases). Quite the contrary, it’s more common where the hyphenated Americans provided an enormous service in times where they are needed the most. The Japanese American 442nd RCT being one of many examples and the work that Iraqi and Afghani Americans are doing in their respective ancestral countries being the more recent.
Going back to Mr. Lim’s article which really pertains to how native Koreans view their hyphenated brethren with unreasonable nationalistic expectations. I’d have to say that I’m in agreement. Some people were angry at Christina Kim because she cheered for her American teammate? That’s ludicrous. Some people need to just chill out.
I said “WWI” twice. I meant to say “WWI and WWII.”
dda said:
Oh, but they do–Where I work we must ask all recruits if they are “Aliens” so we can determine eligibility for overseas assignment in accordance with the following regulation snippet:
Korea was added to the list a few years ago because of the infamous cases of KA’s hiding out in Yongsan to avoid ROK Army service….The reasons are still the same. The German/Turkish/Korean “Alien” could/would get double-whammied with not only an enlistmment in the US Armed Forces but also a tour with the mother country. Germany has the problem because they “recognize” dual citizenship, according to our personnel folks.
Tokyo Rose, whose real name was Iva Toguri D’Aquino, was a US citizen who was visiting relatives in Japan when WWII broke out and couldn’t return home. She refused to renounce her US citizenship. She and two Allied prisoners of war did wartime radio broadcasts, but a post-war investigation found no evidence that any of her broadcasts contained anti-American propaganda. She was convicted of treason but later pardoned by then President Gerald Ford after two witnesses against her stated that their testimony had been coerced.
Iva Toguri D’Aquino is not a good example of a hyphenated American who betrayed the US for the ethnic motherland. A better example would be you-know-who, who actually profited from his spying conviction by milking donations from sympathetic ethnic kindred back in the land of his birth.
Well… there are a number of negative examples, including Israeli-Americans spying for the Mossad…
Speaking of you-know-who, who can forget his insight into this issue in an interview in the Korea Herald in 2005:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/10/13/robert-kim-interview-in-the-korea-herald/
In support of Sonagi’s point:
“‘Tokyo Rose’ was a generic name given by Allied forces in the South Pacific during World War II to any of approximately twenty English-speaking female broadcasters of Japanese propaganda…”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Rose
I recommend a look at the interesting link there for “Axis Sally”, who was in fact only one person (and an American woman who was evidently not a hyphenated German-American; didn’t know any of these details before).
Indeed. It is certainly behavior not limited to Koreans, by any means.
The NY Times had a story a few days ago about how an American immigrant from Russia was the only Soviet spy to infiltrate the Manhattan Project, explaining how the Soviets had atomic weapons as early as 1949.
On the flip side… the Americans would have never gotten the bomb in the first place if it wasn’t for European immigrant scientists…
And the European scientists wouldn’t have come to America if it wasn’t for Hitler’s regime.
A mistrust of minorities, a demand for fast food, and a sense of entitlement that would knock over a mountain?
Nah, they got that too. The integration works well.
People keep focusing on the ethnicity thing but I would argue that class is equally important to identity formation both to South Koreans and South Korean immigrants abroad. Where’s the ethnic solidarity young South Koreans feel for their blood brothers and sisters to the North? It grows weaker and weaker as the years go by, basically because the South is rich and the North is poor. A majority of South Koreans went to the States for economic and social mobility, so that’s where their priorities lie. All this talk about ethnic solidarity is often just a fig leave to cover up more self-interested and very practical concerns.
Touche.
# 39,
And thank god they did, otherwise, the Nazis would have the bomb and not us!
“Korean Americans are only wholly empowered when they are allowed to be both Korean and American.”
“allowed” makes this sentence comical. One can never be “wholly empowered” if who you are depends on the permission of others.
# 41,
That’s a little too cynical of a view, but largely accurate as well, particularly about Koreans coming to America for largely economic and social reasons. However, it’s not to say that many Korean Americans do care about what goes on in the homeland, which they do, particularly early in Korean American history, during the Japanese colonial era.
WangKon936, all I’m saying is that class needs to be factored into the equation more than it generally is here. Speaking of the colonial era, for instance, Korean collaborators were essentially individuals who placed economic and social self-interest ahead of ethnic solidarity. I’m not opposed to ethnic pride per se, as long as it’s rigorous and reasonably consistent.
?!? Since when did the Japanese colonial period become part of early Korean-American history. The former may be significant via-a-vis Korean immigration to the US (although I wonder how many Koreans actually emigrated to the US from Korea during that era – as opposed to immdiately before and after it – given the combination of likely Japanese and American opposition to it) or the preoccupations with the homeland of some Korean immigrants; but the chief characteristic of the colonial period insofar as Korean American relations is concerned is simply that there weren’t any.
Weird. I am not saying you’re wrong — duh — but I have a few real-life examples from way back when France had a draft, dual-citizen classmates, who chose to do their military duty in France and lived in Germany thereafter, including one who did his French military duty… in Germany! None of them had problems. So maybe there are/were different rules for EU citizens [back then it would have been EC] and “real” aliens.
from personal observation, female Korean-Americans who visit the “homeland” leave feeling rather grateful they grew up in the west. Gender inequality and blatant sexism being the main factor in the repugnance commonly felt. I have not met many Korean-flag-waving female gyopos.
On the other hand male gyopos visiting the “homeland” are frequently overcome by a nationalist renewal. “Korea’s the greatest”, they shout. Now, I’m not saying this is the rule, but its happened enough in my observation that I would remark on it.
#38,
You make it sound as if Canada and Great Britain weren’t involved.
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/ManhattanProject/Quebec.shtml
# 49,
I think a lot of KA males also feel grateful that they grew up in the states. If you come here at a young age you get access to a better (if you choose to take advantage of it) educational system and better overall career opportunities (unless you want to be an entertainer). Yeah many are gun ho about Korean pride after coming, but they are still grateful they were raised in the states rather then in Korea.
Twenty years later, a Korean-American may run for the presidency of America.
An Italian-American and a black-American are running for the presidency this year. Yes, right now!
America has come a long way, baby.
Are you listening, Dogbertt?
KoreanAmericans are not different from JapaneseAmericans, ItalianAmericans, PolishAmericans, or even IrishAmericans.
They are all looked down at first. Many suspected that they would not make a good American.
However, eventually they all became Americans. Some became important part of American society.
KoreanAmericans with their religious ferver, hard-working nature and innate high intelligence will make as important contributions as JewishAmericans.
You just wait and see.
He’ll capture 99% of the Korean vote, that’s for sure.
You keep bragging about this supposed innate high intelligence.
Funny how us non-Korean fellas managed to do OK before you deigned to immigrate and enlighten us backward natives.
baduk,
Why don’t you amend that from “innate high intelligence” to something like “predisposition to education attainment”?
‘cuz then he just wouldn’t be baduk, WangKon. Have you tried clicking the link on his name? It’s quite a trip.
Linkd,
I see your point.
#51 agreed. My point is just that along with class (KB’s quite on the ball), gender should also be factored into the equation. There are advantages to being a Korean-American male in Korea, advantages that may manifest themselves as disadvantages in the US. So it seems, K-A males may feel greater empowerment and privilege in Korea which gets proudly translated into nationalist zeal or a ‘rediscovering of their roots’.
my highschool econ teacher said, there was an underlying, unbreakable tradition which ruled in or ruled out who could become elected as US President.
JFK was an exception. He was Irish. And he was Catholic.
You had to be, Anglo Saxon White, Protestant.
you can say whatever you want, but early immigrants not from WASP background were always regarded as non-full Americans.
Whites in northern Europe discriminated against southern Europeans, clearly.
Japanese Americans can brag about their WW2 services, but fact is, their families were held captive back at home, under gun point.
German Americans can brag about their rifling down Germans in Europe, but the US Army had orders to shoot them if they showed any sign of disloyalty, if I remember correctly a tale of one 2 seat fighter bomber pilot, who was told to bomb his grandfather’s town.
Chinese Americans want a strong military in China. They’ve been very busy stealing US military secrets towards the PRC. They dropped the ball. They should be barred from many sectors or kept on watch. They are already, probably.
People from the middle east want their own countries back home strong enough to squash the other’s, and if the US gets in the way, they’ll get the US out of the way.
And must we mention the travesty committed by US Americans who played double spy with the Russians for various reasons?
“German Americans can brag about their rifling down Germans in Europe, but the US Army had orders to shoot them if they showed any sign of disloyalty”
Wish they’d shot grandpa Bush. The dashing Prescott helped finance the Nazis into power, and after Pearl Harbor was still doing business with them…
How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to power
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
I wish the British had shot your undoubtedly-less-than-dashing grandpa cinema.
Come to think of it, maybe they did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indian_National_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Army
My grandfather was run-over by a British steam engine, 30 years before I was born. I’m sure you’re twitching with glee, Paul H.
“I’m sure you’re twitching with glee, Paul H.”
No, but maybe the engine’s construction was financed by Brown Brothers Harriman — you ought to pay a lawyer to look into that for you, maybe you’ll have grounds for a lawauit against the Bush family.
What about your other grandfather?
i truly, honestly believe that Korean Americans are their own unique and separate peoples – different from both Koreans and Americans. Maybe a decent analogy is: the Americans of the thirteen colonies is to Great Britain as Korean Americans are to Korea
Frankly I’m shocked and sickened that we’ve made it to 67 comments here without a single mention of interracial dating. What is this place coming to?
dogbert wrote:
“Funny how us non-Korean fellas managed to do OK before you deigned to immigrate and enlighten us backward natives.”
Natives? I didn’t you know you were an American Indian, dogbert. What tribe?
“Native” in the context he used it means simply being born within the boundaries of the US and therefore automatically being considered a citizen. You ought to know by now that many words in English have multiple meanings.
I gather from this blog that many expectant Korean mothers are anxious to travel to the US so as acquire “native” US status for their newborns. Maybe we ought to start denying that privilege to them unless they can show that they are related to the “native” Americans who crossed the Bering land bridge from Asia 10,000 years ago — in which case the children would be entitled to apply for US entry as part of the reunifcation of families, subject to docuemntary proof of ancestry of course.
“‘Native’ in the context he used it means simply being born within the boundaries of the US and therefore automatically being considered a citizen. You ought to know by now that many words in English have multiple meanings.”
Yes, Paul H., but I was born in the US and have had my loyalty to America questioned by the referred to person (the one who first used the term “native) more than once. I wonder why……
Then again, I don’t. Surely you don’t either.
just 2 weeks ago, an Pakistani lady delivered. She was visiting the US. Her US citizen female friend accompanied her. Triage wanted to know if she had insurance as a formality. She was complete. She delivered, and her boy now has an undeniable shot at applying for US college grants and loans, joining the US military, voting in US elections, and even becoming US President is a possibility.
If this bothers you, just remember that the citizens of Great Britain, Spain, and France essentially killed off the entire Northern American Indians w/ disease, alcohol, and gunfire.
and, the cute part is they try to blame it all on the disease.
What is it exactly that you want, jk?
Dave, you do know that the Americans of the 13 colonies took up arms against Britain, don’t you? Coming over to become a hedge fund asshole or a rapper is hardly the same.
I thought we’d already established that cinemagauche is an English teacher. Everybody knows that English teachers want lawyers to work for them for free.
So, jk, when I say something like this, I’m a racist according to you.
Why so quiet when a fellow kyopo says it?
Hypocrite.
WJK: Assuming the birth of the Pakistani lady’s baby at your hospital does does “bother me” —
why is it that you think I should then immediately proceed to remember the various causes of death for the “North American” Indian population (I presume by “North America” you mean north of the Rio Grande w/inclusive dates of 1492-1890)?
Hm. No kyopo made a comment anything near to what you did here:
“The difference is that those Koreans have less to worry about, because for nearly all Koreans, loyalty to ethnicity will trump citizenship each time.”
And what is your evidence to back this up?
And remember all those comments about kyopos after the psycho Cho went on a rampage at Virginia Tech? And how Robert Kim was supposedly proof of Korean-Americans not being trustworthy despite the fact that I pointed out to you, much to your chagrin, that there are several hundreds if not THOUSANDS of Korean-Americans right where I live who serve the US in the CIA, the FBI, the Armed Forced, etc.?
You can COUNT the bad apples among Korean-Americans on maybe two hands. You canNOT count the good apples because either its not newsworthy….or they are doing clandestine work that is not SUPPOSED to be newsworthy.
And they’re looking out for people like you (even if you DO live in Korea, while you complain about lack of loyalty to America).
Oh, puhleeze….part of the problem with many Korean-Americans is their absolute arrogance and belief that they are so much more virtuous, intelligent, godly, etc. than other Americans. I guess it’s your “innate higher intelligence”.
I didn’t ask them to look out for me. That’s your arrogance again.
I’m old enough to remember an America where kyopos weren’t “looking out for me” and we got by just fine, TYVM. You are not the manna that we poor benighted non-Korean-Americans needed. Get over yourselves already.
“…I thought we’d already established that cinemagauche is an English teacher…”
I think cg is a current UK resident of subcontinent ethnicity, probably Indian. The former “Silly Sally” who plagued the GI Korea blog a year or two ago.
And a former resident of the ROK, thus her presence/interest here.
Maybe she was an English teacher back then, I wouldn’t say no. She’s articulate, mostly grammar- and spelling error- free, and highly prone to erudite quotes. Hmm, now that I think about it, that’s as a good English teacher should be, regardless of the state of the teacher’s innermost political delusions — a good teacher should be to his students like a good lawyer to his client, able to conduct normal operations in their objective best interest regardless of what they think of the students/clients personally.
My ID is based on her “fist” — her style, after collating her collective transmissions to date. Insufficient evidence of proof perhaps for US judicial courtroom standards, but sufficient to lay in the guns on the intersection of the reverse azimuths of her last two radio bearings and “fire for effect”.
I think I’ve already seen enough evidence of secondary explosions to convince me that I’m “on time, on target”. But if you are personally convinced from your own evidence that cg is somebody other than this, I’ll immediately undertake to contact the local tribal leader in cg’s area with fistfuls of US dollars — as reparation for an unjust demise.
Dogbert,
Are JK and Baduk the same people? As far as I know JK never said Koreans were “innately intelligent.”
I know some people think we all look alike, but com’on.
There may be some confusion regarding quote in comment 8:
“The difference is that those Koreans have less to worry about, because for nearly all Koreans, loyalty to ethnicity will trump citizenship each time.”
Dogbert, what do you mean exactly by “those Koreans…” the Steve Yoos of the world or all Korean Americans as a group?
#72,
Let me ask you a question…
What have you ever done to help Native Americans?
Neither.
By “those Koreans”, I meant the Korean citizens, living in Korea, who Jason Lim in his article described as being critical of the “Steve” Yoos.
I meant, that those particular Koreans do not need to worry that Koreans who have left Korea and/or taken Korean citizenship, such as Yoo, will be disloyal to Korea, as for many Korean-Americans, their ties and loyalties to their ethnicity will prove stronger than their loyalty to their adopted land, should the two ever conflict.
Fair point.
My view of jk’s narcissism, self-importance, and contempt for others, primarily non-Korean-Americans, is based on his blog writings, which others may have not read.
“as for many Korean-Americans, their ties and loyalties to their ethnicity will prove stronger than their loyalty to their adopted land, should the two ever conflict.”
Well, we are all entitled to our opinions but as I’ve said before, the history of American immigration would go counter to your beliefs, unless you think Koreans are “special” in some way.
@86 — Perhaps you are right. The history of mass Korean immigration to the U.S. is so recent that perhaps Korean assimilation will follow “the history of American immigration”. Time will tell.
On the other hand, we have Korean-Americans in this very thread posting their belief that Korean-Americans actually are special in some way, so it looks to me as though even within your community that thought is present.
Inspector Paul H. writes:
I think cinemagauche is this deranged-looking Canuck, one Mr. Nigel Savio D’Sa — whose surname is in fact an Indian one (well done!). Nigel may currently be employed, or may formerly have been employed, at the Hanyang University English Language institute. His writings about PIFF date from 2004, so maybe Nigel no longer works here.
As to whether cinemagauche is Silly Sally, I can’t say — although as a 9/11 Truther he’s firmly established his loon credential. It’s possible. But I’m positively gobsmacked you could identify ethnicity from rantings on the Internet.
I think that’s creepy.
Why don’t you post his address while you’re at it.
Yes, that was quite uncalled for, Truther or not.
Don’t have his address — but anything that’s discoverable by typing the compound “cinemagauche” into Google and clicking around on the first page of search results seems fair game to me. He’s not keeping his name a secret if he’s using that handle publicly.
I didn’t have to use any of my magic powers from the National Security Agency to find it. Honestly speaking, though, I wouldn’t post a guy’s address nor would I call attention to it if I found it.
But I would pull off his mask.
You guys.. taking this far too seriously. What fun would this be if everyone agreed with you all the time? It’s good to have some people with different views, makes it interesting. No reason to get all personal.
Brendon,
You’re taking someone else’s blog post way too personally and way too far. Your compulsive-obsessive attack is making you look bad and is only drawing sympathy for cg in the victim role, thus supporting his/her position.
Chill.
That’d be a hard sell — one would have to be already way across the fence with the other lulus to feel any sympathy for the… er… fellow.
dogbert wrote:
“My view of jk’s narcissism, self-importance, and contempt for others, primarily non-Korean-Americans, is based on his blog writings, which others may have not read.”
Hah! And what do you write in YOUR blog? Heck your own comments on THIS blog alone reveal enough about you.
What’s even funnier….you will CONTINUE to read my blog. I didn’t know I had such an audience! (Actually I did know with my tracer.)
And FYI: I showed contempt for non-Korean-Americans??? This coming from you with all your comments about how we Korean-Americans are all suspect in our loyalty to America? Puh-lease! Who do you think I critique the most on my blog (and a critique is not the same as contempt)? No, it ain’t white Anglos or Japanese or native Koreans (though there is much to write about each group, and not always in a positive way either); more often than not, it’s Korean-Americans…but I dish it out all around to everybody because every ethnic, national, and religious group in the world has its problems (you yourself are hopefully just an extreme example of YOUR ethnic group). So next time you make a claim about me or anyone else, be ACCURATE and not say lies.
Funny, Wangkon corrects you in #81….and after sheepishly admitting you were in the wrong, you stubbornly go on a tangent to talk about my blog. Well, guess what? It’s my blog! And I draw such pleasure knowing it irks you to read it but that you will continue to do so.
1) #88 — “…I’m positively gobsmacked you could identify ethnicity from rantings on the Internet.”
Nothing to be astonished about. “Silly Sally” would make various “handle” changes over at GI Korea but “she” had an incorrigible need to lecture the plebians (just like cinema); “her” style was unmistakable so the attempt at disguise became readily apparent after a paragraph or so.
Under one of her “alternates” I think I recall “she” had a post with a moment of candor about being a UK resident of ethnic Indian origin. That ties in with some other indicators such as “her” choice of adjectives (“daft”, “bloody-minded”…)
2) #91 — “Honestly speaking…I wouldn’t post a guy’s address nor would I call attention to it if I found it.
But I would pull off his mask.”
Amen to that. I’m not interested in violating anyone’s personal privacy but I’m not inclined to passively endure anonymous lectures from “citizens of the world”. The Delphic oracle went out of business quite a while back and there’s no valid successor out there, esp not at that collection of thugocracies known as the UN General Assembly.
Anyone is entitled to state their views here as determined by our host(s) –if they mind their manners, maybe even throw a few sharp elbows, but the readers are damn sure entitled to know what nationalistic gas the poster has been inhaling.
A “subcontinent” ethnicity poster obsessed with 9/11 conspiracy makes a lot more “sense” once one recalls the importance of conspiracy as affecting the terms of office of the governments down there, since 1947. Where you sit (or sat) has a lot to do with where you stand.
I can only hope that jk, wjk, and baduk make up a small sampling that is absolutely not representative of Korean-Americans as a whole.
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