And over at Observations & Anecdotes, Edward examines yakiniku (a.k.a. Japanese galbi), hoe (a.k.a. Korean sushi) and the globalization of food culture.
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Yakiniku & Gimbap
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on November 2, 2007 at 2:40 pm, filed under Asides, Korean Culture. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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38 Comments
‘…hoe (a.k.a. Korean sushi)…’
Korean sushi would be 초밥 (nigiri-zushi) or 김밥 (maki-zushi). Korean 회 is sashimi.
Nice article! Actually today’s Japanese cuisine is so mixed with food and cooking methods originating from other parts of the world that it is almost impossible to speak about purely “Traditional Japanese cuisine” (ramen, tempura, tonkatsu, karee raisu aka curry rice)..
I guess that it is the same in other parts of Asia (and the rest of the world).
20 years ago I remember still some Japanese saying “poor crazy American who cannot understand Sushi. They eat rice with avocado or salmon.”
Today both are quite common in Tokyo’s Sushi restaurants. Actually food would be THE field in which Globalization had an enormous positive effect.
“20 years ago I remember still some Japanese saying ‘poor crazy American who cannot understand Sushi. They eat rice with avocado or salmon.’”
The interesting thing is that the idea of putting avocado and salmon in sushi was started by Japanese Americans in Little Tokyo. It is thus still, in a sense, a Japanese idea/invention.
tomojiro,
Also, there are other areas of globalization and economics that I find more interesting, etc. but I tend to write on food more because it’s a topic accessable and understandable by everybody.
#4-thanks for the article, I enjoyed it.
#2 I thought ramen was originally Chinese in origin.
My wife is Chinese, we live in Japan, and she denies that raamen in Chinese. But I have to say, the Japanese make the best tantanmen (dandanmian)!
I find it a bit ironic to see the Japanese copy Korean food while at the same time, they seem to go nuts if Koreans copy their snacks.
I wonder if occi will be doing an angry post about this.
paw,
We copy japanese food all the time… that was my point actually…
Besides, the Japanese get mad when we copy TRADEMARKED proprietary processed food goods, such as snacks (those shrimp chips for example) and things like that. There is no intellectual property on kalbi, sushi or sashimi so people can really copy away…
I don’t need you to explain things to me, little wang. And where did I say Koreans didn’t copy things? Do you know how lost the human race would be if people didn’t copy their neighbors? look, I don’t really give a shit if Japanese copy Korean food, it’s just ironic that they’d go nuts when Koreans do the same thing.
Paw,
I’m older then you. Don’t call me little wang. What kind of Korean are you if you don’t know proper manners in front of your hyungs?
If you dig a little on that blog you’ll find what may be the best description of Korean cuisine and alcohol I’ve ever read anywhere (it’s all about base flavours and creating balance)…
” Koreans will take a bland, tasteless staple like rice and eat it with spicy, sweet and tart concoctions called “banchan” and create a sort of culinary balance. The banchan itself is not easy to eat alone, being spicy and extreme to the taste buds. Hence you lighten the flavor by eating it with rice. Another example is Korean alcohol. It’s also bland. Koreans tend not to drink flavored cocktail beverages, but lean more on tasteless light vodka called “soju” and watery beers that Westerners say lacks a beer like taste. Koreans favor this type of alcohol because it goes well with their bar food, otherwise known as “anju” which also leans on the spicy, sweet and tart side. In other words, Anju would taste good with Hite or Cass branded beer (Korean brands), but would taste kinda weird with Guinness or Newcastle. Thus, the Korean culinary tradition is full of examples of having a “base” or tasteless center ingredient complimenting the stronger tastes of secondary ingredients to create a more or less balanced overall food experience. “
“Look, I don’t really give a shit if Japanese copy Korean food, it’s just ironic that they’d go nuts when Koreans do the same thing.”
Who is ‘they’? The Koreans or the Japanese?
What they miss is that people traveling to and from Korea and Japan during the old days of the silk road and in more modern times have left their mark on the local cuisines. Red pepper powder and paste, for example, are very European/South American in origin and can be found in many cultures around the world (Spanish red pepper paste, red paprika powder, harissa, cayenne pepper, …). Most modern Koreans probably wouldn’t care for their own cuisine without those two key ingredient. Soon-dae also looks an awful lot like Portuguese ‘chorizo’ to me.
So, yeah. Debating who copied who is pointless when you consider that Korean and Japanese cultures have never existed in a vacuum. Nevertheless, it is fun to try to guess how certain dishes came to be created.
This from the guy who went apoplectic when someone referred to him as ‘pow pow.’
Civility for thee for but not for me, apparently.
You’re Pawi’s hyung? Yikes. That makes you my oppa. There’s a lot of oldsters in this joint.
As for copying food, the Japanese not only copy other ethnic dishes but actually patent ordinary recipes.
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiawe.....tents.html
Uh… I assumed that Pawi is under 30 years old due to his, errr… “style” of expressing himself.
I’ll be 34 next month.
“I’m older then you. Don’t call me little wang. What kind of Korean are you if you don’t know proper manners in front of your hyungs?”
In other words, Pawi, the Wang is a well hyung.
Sweet and sour pork was invented by a Chinese cook in New York.
Likewise Korean bbq was initially started by Korean female factory workers in Japan before WW2. They picked up bowels of pigs and cows which used to be thrown away, and grilled them for dinner. The Korean bbq was called “Hormone” and regarded as stamina food. The Hormone bbq restaurants were ubiquitous in Japan right after the war and very popular for Japanese hungry for animal protein. The hormone started including ordinary beef as the country recovered from the ashes and changed to the current style.
I wonder what the internet will be like 30 years from now or even 60 years from now.
If I am still alive then, and if I should still be posting around on blogs, I hope to be one of those silver-haired, sanguine harabeogi types sitting about on a sofa with tea and biscuit accoutrement, diligently posting wisdom on the net for all the troubled dongsaengs in the world.
If the hyeongs and the nunas are around too, then they’re welcome too. I just hope I’m not on the road to internet curmudgeonhood.
#6, from wiki, for all that counts for these days…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramen#History
“Though of Chinese origin, it is unclear when ramen was introduced to Japan. Even the etymology of the term “ramen” is a topic of debate. One hypothesis and probably the most credible is that “ramen” is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese: 拉麺 (lamian), meaning “hand-pulled noodles” (a name that is still used in Chinese for these sort of noodles)”.
Stop right here, you’ve read enough. [Sad] story of his [sad] life.
Sounds you’re in the right frame of mind to write it, paw paw. Try IamAlwaysAngry.com or something.
He’s not Korean, just a sad Yanqui with yellow skin. Prolly what makes him so angry at el mondo.
‘This from the guy who went apoplectic when someone referred to him as ‘pow pow.’
Civility for thee for but not for me, apparently.’ blueballs
c’mon, now, use that brilliant mind i know you have(and that’s the truth). i complained about it when i was under the impression that the censor was still around and i was still following the rules while others weren’t. did you forget that part? lastly, your ability to write is impressive.
wang, i find you arrogant and think you’re a show off. i think you overcompensate. you’re 34? you ain’t old to know that.
as for you, dda, why not come here to the states to get yourself a vietnamese girl? oops, i forgot; then you’d have to compete with white guys who’re actually good looking. lol. happy trails.
btw, have you noticed paul says he’s an elder? know what? i believe him. and yet this guy has no problem hurling insults. interesting.
That why your father went to the US? Cuz he couldn’t get any local poon? pow pow, difference between you and me — one of many that is — is that I married a Korean, which is one thing that’s gonna require lots of money and peer pressure for you to get. So go pull on your peanut-sized wang and fuck off.
Kyopo fight!
from what I understand ramen is a technological break thru, and improvement on a Chinese dish.
Lomein, I believe, is the Chinese dish. Simply fried noodles, with some veges and meat. Somewhat similar to the chow mein Americans love to consume, but I don’t like that much, because I am used to Korean style Chinese food, and there is no dish served with such greasy noodles.
The Japanese get props here for adding a meaty soup to these fried noodles. An instant hint, made by a I think who is a Japanese citizen from Chinese Taiwan origin. He just died recently, claiming to have ate 1 cup ramen every single day of his life, living up to age 80+, I believe.
the noodles come fried, and you add powder and water, and now you have noodles that don’t taste as greasy because of the soup.
any culinary combo worthy of mention makes good balance of oil and water.
ramen was one of the finest spinoffs of the original in human history.
Credit the Japanese for that.
of course, I may have been understanding this wrong the whole time.
?!? I have 0% Korean DNA, dude…
Paw, I can go on and on about your short comings, but I won’t.
However, I will say that you are rude and come off being uneducated with a consistently confrontational attitude.
You are a sang nom….
‘However, I will say that you are rude and come off being uneducated with a consistently confrontational attitude.’ wang
yes, that’s true, isn’t it?
I agree with the thesis that a lot of cross culinary influences occurred between Korea and Japan. But I am not convinced at all if poster is inferring that sashimi culture was the major vehicle in spreading hoe.
The reason why I say this is that a lot of Koreans have a sense of what “korean” style sashimi is as opposed to “japanese” style sashimi. “Korean” style being sweet cho-gochujang sauce that is often heavily mixed with some raw fish. Sometimes this is mixed with vegetables. Sometimes the fish is dipped in the cho-gochujang sauce and eaten wrapped with lettuce like how koreans eat bbq. The way the fish is cut by the chef also differs. It just seems to me that korean hoe eating culture is an extension of Korean jut eating culture. Jut of course, is fermented sea food. These are obviously not cooked either. Often they have spicy seasoning as well.
When Korean people think of Japanese style hoe, they are talking about using soy sauce with wasabi0—using really mild condiments to really bring out the taste of the fish.
In other words, Korean hoe seems to be designed to eat lesser quality fish—maybe even overcoming unfreshness caused by lack of refrigeration. Meanwhile Japanese sashimi doesn’t address for those issues.
Of course, my views might be biased since both my parents come from towns close to the sea. Wangkon’s family might have been from inland areas, so indeed, it could be that by “hoe” he is thinking of what I consider to be “japanese” style.
personally i prefer japanese style, but some japanese people really enjoy the korean style of wrapping lettuce and dipping chogochujang.
Also, yakiniku places in lower east side new york seems different from the yakiniku places descriped in the post. If you go to Yakiniku East right next to Cooper Union university, the only difference is the slight variation of taste from the dipping sauce as well as the fact you have to pay for every banchan separately. Gochujang, dolsot bibimbap, kimchi… all exactly the same. If I want to have Korean food on manhattan, i usually prefer to eat there as opposed to K-town where everything is over-priced and banchans are crap.
I think the kyopo fight Dogbert was referring to was between ‘wang’ and ‘paw.’ There’s only one way to settle this fight, guys. Draw your swords!
A Korean version of pistols at dawn?… ;P
# 29, Yes, I also prefer my hoe with gojang as well. It’s gotten to the point where I can’t imagine raw fish without it!
If you want to know what mainstream Japanese yakiniku is like, chains like Gyu-Kaku and Manpuku are best to get a sample of what yakiniku is typically like. I don’t know if the yakiniku places in NY are chains or mom and pops.
hwae
not hoe.
I know… but it’s spelled hoe in wiki.
as much as the Japanese get picked on for making poor use of English translations, I think the Korean language itself is not very well suited for Romanization as the Japanese language is.
What the hell is a hoe? Garden tool doesn’t seem to be the most common usage these days.
why are most Koreans named in English as if they had middle names?
Sang Kim.
Myung Park.
Japanese get it right. Hideki Matsui.
Your name isn’t the past tense of sing.
ark isn’t it. ak is.
we don’t have middle names. Stop letting them calling your first name by your first name syllable.
it’s like those idiots at Ellis Island making up family names as they saw it easiest for them to write and pronounce.
hoe is McCune Reischauer, at least.
Roman characters are not only ill suited to display Korean or Japanese, it’s also ill suited for English. Look at how many special combo characters English gets such as Th, Sh, Er, Ar, Or, etc. How about the awkward use of Chinese characters to demonstrate Korean and Japanese also. The Japanese have stuck with the use of native characters in combination with Chinese characters and it’s still confusing.
i say potatoe, you say potatwae.