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	<title>Comments on: More Fake Degree Cases</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  2 Dec 2008 02:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116122</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116122</guid>
		<description>Paul,

The same can be said about commissioned officer training in South Korea.  Most, if not all, Korean universities have very well managed ROTC programs.  These cadets are kept on a very tight schedule, studying long before and after the other students.  In my experience, these students have all been highly focused individuals.  Not the kind to show up to class without pen and paper, to say the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>The same can be said about commissioned officer training in South Korea.  Most, if not all, Korean universities have very well managed ROTC programs.  These cadets are kept on a very tight schedule, studying long before and after the other students.  In my experience, these students have all been highly focused individuals.  Not the kind to show up to class without pen and paper, to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116110</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116110</guid>
		<description>"I am more concerned with the “honest to goodness” and incompetent “degreed” decision makers..."

Which specific decision makers do you have in mind? My own wits are sufficient to surmise a guess, but I think you should spell it out, just in case I am in fact a "half-wit".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am more concerned with the “honest to goodness” and incompetent “degreed” decision makers&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Which specific decision makers do you have in mind? My own wits are sufficient to surmise a guess, but I think you should spell it out, just in case I am in fact a &#8220;half-wit&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred2</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116107</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116107</guid>
		<description>Credentials and even certified degrees have been bestowed surreptitiously for centuries. I am more concerned with the "honest to goodness" and incompetent "degreed" decision makers. Anyone with half a wit knows of their influence on the rest of our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Credentials and even certified degrees have been bestowed surreptitiously for centuries. I am more concerned with the &#8220;honest to goodness&#8221; and incompetent &#8220;degreed&#8221; decision makers. Anyone with half a wit knows of their influence on the rest of our lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116103</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116103</guid>
		<description>"...but surely every nation and people’s history is full of such duplicity?"

If you mean to refer to the commissioning process for military officers, as far as the US military goes, normally the officer training process takes place simultaneously with the college education (ie ROTC programs at civilian colleges, or the military academies).  

It is possible for a college graduate with no prior military service of any kind, who is still young enough, to apply for officer candidate programs; normally this requires the candidate to enlist first.  I think he (or she) would still need to take an fairly extensive aptitude test, the results of which might be the first thing to cause reviewing authorities to take a closer look at a possibly questionable applicant.   

The kicker would come in terms of college transcripts, which would have to be provided by the degree-granting institution independently.  The reviewing authorities cannot accept as authoritative copies of college transcripts (a degree certificate is not sufficient regardless of who provides it) provided by the applicant.  

Surely you would agree this is a rather elementary precaution readily available to the authorities.   What is the motive for these guys wanting to do this anyway?  One naturally looks for more detail but I guess the link must be in Korean.

(ie, were/are any of them possible North Korean agents?  Are there any officers currently serving in responsible/higher positions, ones requiring security clearances, who have fake college degrees from abroad?  Just how reliable is the current security clearance process for service in the ROK military and/or diplomatic/government service anyway?)

I'm glad they've discovered the problem but now I'm concerned as to whether anyone in authority is taking follow-up action without regard to fear or favor.  The standard mantra of "everybody does it, both currently and throughout history" won't cut it; I wonder what the private reaction of USFK millitary authorities is when they hear about this sort of thing.  Many of the officers and NCO's will have served in positions in the US military commissioning program and will understand how elementary these types of precautions are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;but surely every nation and people’s history is full of such duplicity?&#8221;</p>
<p>If you mean to refer to the commissioning process for military officers, as far as the US military goes, normally the officer training process takes place simultaneously with the college education (ie ROTC programs at civilian colleges, or the military academies).  </p>
<p>It is possible for a college graduate with no prior military service of any kind, who is still young enough, to apply for officer candidate programs; normally this requires the candidate to enlist first.  I think he (or she) would still need to take an fairly extensive aptitude test, the results of which might be the first thing to cause reviewing authorities to take a closer look at a possibly questionable applicant.   </p>
<p>The kicker would come in terms of college transcripts, which would have to be provided by the degree-granting institution independently.  The reviewing authorities cannot accept as authoritative copies of college transcripts (a degree certificate is not sufficient regardless of who provides it) provided by the applicant.  </p>
<p>Surely you would agree this is a rather elementary precaution readily available to the authorities.   What is the motive for these guys wanting to do this anyway?  One naturally looks for more detail but I guess the link must be in Korean.</p>
<p>(ie, were/are any of them possible North Korean agents?  Are there any officers currently serving in responsible/higher positions, ones requiring security clearances, who have fake college degrees from abroad?  Just how reliable is the current security clearance process for service in the ROK military and/or diplomatic/government service anyway?)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad they&#8217;ve discovered the problem but now I&#8217;m concerned as to whether anyone in authority is taking follow-up action without regard to fear or favor.  The standard mantra of &#8220;everybody does it, both currently and throughout history&#8221; won&#8217;t cut it; I wonder what the private reaction of USFK millitary authorities is when they hear about this sort of thing.  Many of the officers and NCO&#8217;s will have served in positions in the US military commissioning program and will understand how elementary these types of precautions are.</p>
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		<title>By: jefferyhodges</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116102</link>
		<dc:creator>jefferyhodges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116102</guid>
		<description>Next? Well . . . I suspect that the institutions that provided these fake degrees will be discovered to lack the credentials to authorize fake degrees. Wasn't that the story with Shin Jeong-ah? Didn't it turn out that her 'tutor' lacked the authority to falsify her doctorate? I think that was the story, wasn't it?

It's really somebody else's fault, right?

Jeffery Hodges

* * *</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next? Well . . . I suspect that the institutions that provided these fake degrees will be discovered to lack the credentials to authorize fake degrees. Wasn&#8217;t that the story with Shin Jeong-ah? Didn&#8217;t it turn out that her &#8216;tutor&#8217; lacked the authority to falsify her doctorate? I think that was the story, wasn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really somebody else&#8217;s fault, right?</p>
<p>Jeffery Hodges</p>
<p>* * *</p>
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		<title>By: mateomiguel</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116094</link>
		<dc:creator>mateomiguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 08:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116094</guid>
		<description>.. but surely every nation and people's history is full of such duplicity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>.. but surely every nation and people&#8217;s history is full of such duplicity?</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116083</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116083</guid>
		<description>#2,

I believe I've read somewhere that one of the reasons why Korean soldiers often did so poorly against Japanese soldiers in the past is that many of them were peasants and slaves who had been hired to serve in-lieu of a richer family's son (kind of like how a rich man would often hire the village idiot to take the place of his son during the American Civil War).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#2,</p>
<p>I believe I&#8217;ve read somewhere that one of the reasons why Korean soldiers often did so poorly against Japanese soldiers in the past is that many of them were peasants and slaves who had been hired to serve in-lieu of a richer family&#8217;s son (kind of like how a rich man would often hire the village idiot to take the place of his son during the American Civil War).</p>
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		<title>By: Sperwer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116081</link>
		<dc:creator>Sperwer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116081</guid>
		<description>Interesting, during Joseon commoners and slaves would buy certificates from corrupt local clerks confirming their enrollment at local govt. Confucian schools to avoid military service and tax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, during Joseon commoners and slaves would buy certificates from corrupt local clerks confirming their enrollment at local govt. Confucian schools to avoid military service and tax.</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116073</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 02:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/11/02/more-fake-degree-cases/#comment-116073</guid>
		<description>Degrees from the Philippines... Seriously...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Degrees from the Philippines&#8230; Seriously&#8230;</p>
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