Comments on: The New York Philharmonic in Pyongyang http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/ Korea... in Blog Format Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:12:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Paul H. http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115899 Paul H. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:39:36 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115899 The use of "jazz" as a slightly pejorative noun is one of the many standard usages and usually doesn't necessarily imply disrespect for any form of jazz music. 5. Slang. insincere, exaggerated, or pretentious talk: "Don't give me any of that jazz about your great job as an English teacher in Korea!" From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jazz (Ok, I admit I added that last dependent clause to the sample sentence...) The use of “jazz” as a slightly pejorative noun is one of the many standard usages and usually doesn’t necessarily imply disrespect for any form of jazz music.

5. Slang. insincere, exaggerated, or pretentious talk: “Don’t give me any of that jazz about your great job as an English teacher in Korea!”

From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jazz

(Ok, I admit I added that last dependent clause to the sample sentence…)

]]> By: R. Elgin http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115892 R. Elgin Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:17:37 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115892 "abcdefg", I don't like hearing people mention "Jazz" in connection to some bs thing. I love the music and respect the tradition, thus it I hate hearing those corn pone sayings about "jazzing it up", etc. when the meaning implies something that is negative. Surely you understand that? “abcdefg”, I don’t like hearing people mention “Jazz” in connection to some bs thing. I love the music and respect the tradition, thus it I hate hearing those corn pone sayings about “jazzing it up”, etc. when the meaning implies something that is negative. Surely you understand that?

]]> By: abcdefg http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115889 abcdefg Wed, 31 Oct 2007 04:00:35 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115889 "Maybe you will want to try again and use a better analogy." If you don't want me to conclude you're some doof or if the expression really bothers you, then next time try explaining why it does. What is "Jazz" to you and what do you think I think it is? Start there. I am a fan of jazz music, but I don't read minds. “Maybe you will want to try again and use a better analogy.”

If you don’t want me to conclude you’re some doof or if the expression really bothers you, then next time try explaining why it does. What is “Jazz” to you and what do you think I think it is? Start there. I am a fan of jazz music, but I don’t read minds.

]]> By: Hatch SZ http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115839 Hatch SZ Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:04:51 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115839 Ordinary N Koreans will will probably be told of the event--as there is a good chance the regime may twist it around as saying the performance is a tribute to the regime. And look! Pyongyang is such an international city! But that is the only worry I have. No worry about it 'adding legitimacy' to the regime to the outside world. If they do play, I hope they play their guts out and astound the audience, whether the elite or not. And I hope the musicians retain their streak of independence and strong-mindedness--as such top flight musicians can have--and give their minders fits on the trip. Ordinary N Koreans will will probably be told of the event–as there is a good chance the regime may twist it around as saying the performance is a tribute to the regime. And look! Pyongyang is such an international city! But that is the only worry I have. No worry about it ‘adding legitimacy’ to the regime to the outside world.

If they do play, I hope they play their guts out and astound the audience, whether the elite or not. And I hope the musicians retain their streak of independence and strong-mindedness–as such top flight musicians can have–and give their minders fits on the trip.

]]> By: Uri Onara http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115838 Uri Onara Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:41:18 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115838 Paris in Seoul? Any hope that there might be just one more state-sponsored abduction pukchoguro...? Paris in Seoul? Any hope that there might be just one more state-sponsored abduction pukchoguro…?

]]> By: Corpy Carly http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115836 Corpy Carly Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:48:06 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115836 @8: Perhaps you should actually go read Joshua's most recent post. @8: Perhaps you should actually go read Joshua’s most recent post.

]]> By: rich1million http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115835 rich1million Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:40:56 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115835 When I saw the headline I thought KJI had had them kidnapped... When I saw the headline I thought KJI had had them kidnapped…

]]> By: ZZOOzzoo http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115834 ZZOOzzoo Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:13:22 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115834 I personally couldn't give a hoot about the NY Phil going to North Korea when Paris Hilton is coming to South Korea in a week. Get your priorities straight, people! I personally couldn’t give a hoot about the NY Phil going to North Korea when Paris Hilton is coming to South Korea in a week.

Get your priorities straight, people!

]]> By: hoju_saram http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115832 hoju_saram Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:53:24 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115832 This has been coming for a while now. And I tend to agree with Mr. Lankov. The Philharmonic will make little difference, but it can't hurt. Ordinary North Koreans will not even be told the NYP visited, and the small cadre of people who will see it are probably already aware of how far ahead the west is anyway. But what harm can it do? The North Korean elite takes this stuff very seriously. Their own operas are absolutely stunning (I was lucky enough to see True Daughter of the Party in Pyongyang). There's always going to be people who wil be outraged (see joshua over at onefreekorea) because either A. they'll see it as an underserved reward to the regime and/or B. Cannot conceive of the benefits of engagement/exchange. But it will hardly be a reward; for the NK hardliners, the skill of the NYP will be a bitter pill. And exchange/engagement already proved itself in the USSR, as Andre pointed out. At the end of the day, why not? This has been coming for a while now. And I tend to agree with Mr. Lankov. The Philharmonic will make little difference, but it can’t hurt. Ordinary North Koreans will not even be told the NYP visited, and the small cadre of people who will see it are probably already aware of how far ahead the west is anyway.

But what harm can it do?

The North Korean elite takes this stuff very seriously. Their own operas are absolutely stunning (I was lucky enough to see True Daughter of the Party in Pyongyang).

There’s always going to be people who wil be outraged (see joshua over at onefreekorea) because either A. they’ll see it as an underserved reward to the regime and/or B. Cannot conceive of the benefits of engagement/exchange.

But it will hardly be a reward; for the NK hardliners, the skill of the NYP will be a bitter pill. And exchange/engagement already proved itself in the USSR, as Andre pointed out.

At the end of the day, why not?

]]> By: Lankov http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115831 Lankov Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:38:36 +0000 http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/10/30/the-new-york-philharmonic-in-pyongyang/#comment-115831 Dear Sperwer, May be I was a bit too annoyed about those guys, being quite tired today, but nonetheless their logic seems a bit strange to me. They say something like that: "North Koreans are bad, so we'd rather leave them listennign to the Flower-Selling Girl, and when they are free we wil probably come there, to reward them for their good behaviour". Well, first of all, people who will come to the concerts are not exactly torture specialists. Second, the more isolated the North koreans are, the longer they will believe in the lies their government has to tell them to stay in power. Re concerts in the USSR. Of course, they were a very minor factor, one of thousands things which contributed to the gradual and slow change in perception of the West. As I have said, the hard rock perhaps played a greater role, but... Any major concert of Western band/orchestra was an event, especially in pre-detente era, that is, before the late 1960s. New musical ideas, to be sure, but also hint at the a different world. Re-de-humanization of the Evil Enemy, fist of all. Some opportunities to talk for the NK musicians one of the least politically reliable professional groups, if the Soviet experience tells something). Even few jokes will mean much. The NKoreans are hungry for uncensored information about the outside world. So, the more contacts and exchanges, the better. Students. Orchestras, Socer teams. Every one targeting its own audience. None will be desicive, and all together will play a role. Once again, I am in favour of both soft and hard measures. As a matter of fact, I was annoyed because I was tired, and I was tired because I has a tough deadline to write and record a column to be broadcast to North Korea tomorrow. By a "subversive station", of course. But I think that NYP visit will work be working towards the same result - changing North Korea and North Koreans. Dear Sperwer, May be I was a bit too annoyed about those guys, being quite tired today, but nonetheless their logic seems a bit strange to me. They say something like that: “North Koreans are bad, so we’d rather leave them listennign to the Flower-Selling Girl, and when they are free we wil probably come there, to reward them for their good behaviour”. Well, first of all, people who will come to the concerts are not exactly torture specialists. Second, the more isolated the North koreans are, the longer they will believe in the lies their government has to tell them to stay in power.

Re concerts in the USSR. Of course, they were a very minor factor, one of thousands things which contributed to the gradual and slow change in perception of the West. As I have said, the hard rock perhaps played a greater role, but… Any major concert of Western band/orchestra was an event, especially in pre-detente era, that is, before the late 1960s. New musical ideas, to be sure, but also hint at the a different world. Re-de-humanization of the Evil Enemy, fist of all. Some opportunities to talk for the NK musicians one of the least politically reliable professional groups, if the Soviet experience tells something). Even few jokes will mean much. The NKoreans are hungry for uncensored information about the outside world.

So, the more contacts and exchanges, the better. Students. Orchestras, Socer teams. Every one targeting its own audience. None will be desicive, and all together will play a role.

Once again, I am in favour of both soft and hard measures. As a matter of fact, I was annoyed because I was tired, and I was tired because I has a tough deadline to write and record a column to be broadcast to North Korea tomorrow. By a “subversive station”, of course. But I think that NYP visit will work be working towards the same result - changing North Korea and North Koreans.

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