It’s even worse when overseas Koreans start bad-mouthing you, too:
After her husband was killed [in the 2002 West Coast naval skirmish between North and South Korea], Kim organized a memorial society for the servicemen who died in the battle. But she was frustrated by the South Korean government’s downplaying and minimizing of the battle in its attempts to placate North Korea, and so she left her homeland in protest, boarding a plane for the U.S. in April 2005.
She arrived at New York City’s JFK Airport with just US$500 in her hands. What she found in the U.S. was loneliness and penury. Kim had learned manicuring in Seoul, but the American beauty parlor she worked for shut down just a month after she got the job. She took to cleaning buildings in Chinatown at night to make a living. Later she sprained her wrists while moving boxes at a supermarket where she labored for six months.
A job as an accounting clerk at a food wholesaler brought some stability, though her ill health continued, including a near fatal two-month-long cough. Despite her physical hardships, she said the worst pain came from the whispering gossip of Korean-Americans in New York. “Though there weren’t many of them, some Korean-Americans disliked me for having blamed the South Korean government and leaving the country. It made me pretty upset to know they saw me just some wretched woman.”
Ugly stuff.
39 Comments
Some Koreans, not all, are notoriously callous and cruel towards the poor, downtrodden, divorced & orphaned.
It’s like they believe that the person deserves their situation because they “must have done something wrong”.
I guess it’s a defense mechanism that helps them to feel that they, themselves, are not as vulnerable.
“That person didn’t do things right, so that’s why they are in the state they are. If I keep doing things ‘right’, then I’ll be okay.”
That must be the sick method they use to sleep soundly at night.
^ I don’t see your point here. Yes, ’some’ Koreans are callous and cruel towards the poor, but so are some Americans, some Europeans, some Singaporeans and so on.
Well, I think that in some Asian countries the prevailing doctrine of Confucianism with its blatant disregard for those who do not happen to be members of the in-group exacerbates a social problem which, to some extent, exists in all societies, Western or Asian alike…
Call it a generalization, but it seems so much more pronounced here.
Yes, there are people like this in other countries/societies, but
in public converation they generally know that they should not air
feelings like this. In Korea, many don’t feel any guilt over making someone feel horrible because they are in an unfortunate situation.
There are many instances where the poor, rural, divorced & orphaned
are chided and discriminated against, but not many seem it’s wrong.
seem to think it’s wrong
Not too surprising. Why should Koreans in America be different from the ones here? Didn’t Hines Ward’s mom get zero support from the Korean community, too?
Also, it should read “2002″ naval skirmish.
“Why should Koreans in America be different from the ones here?”
Well, this might well be true for the 1st generation, but, from the 2nd generation onwards, immigrants tend to fully immerse themselves in the societies they live in, and to accept the standards prevailing there. Actually, after some years even some 1st generation immigrants do just that, as well…
My wife, upon her arrival on German soil, learned very fast that the rough style of talking (in a conversation with strangers) that she was used to from her time in the ROK is deemed entirely inacceptable here. This is not to say that there are no rude Germans, but society as a whole does not condone such behaviour…
“Well, this might well be true for the 1st generation, but, from the 2nd generation onwards, immigrants tend to fully immerse themselves in the societies they live in, and to accept the standards prevailing there. Actually, after some years even some 1st generation immigrants do just that, as well…”
As a general rule perhaps, but some 2nd generation immigrant groups don’t seem to immerse as much or as smoothly as other ones do.
Hmmm…she arrived in the US with just $500.
$500?!
What kind of visa was/is she on? Kinda tough to get one in three years (look at the backlog) when one doesn’t have money. (Probably not on the family-member visa because all she found in the States was “loneliness”. And also a huge backlog.)
Parts of the story of her stay in the US don’t add up. Okay, she lost her job at the manicure parlour. There were no others? C’mon. That was her trained profession. And it pays pretty well in the States to boot. So she takes the cleaning lady job and later the supermarket clerk job, both of which require little, if any, training. And pay much less too.
Korean-Americans, who themselves left the country, disliked her for doing likewise?
Whoops! Given who’s involved, that’s the most believable part of the tale.
ZZZooozooo, in the four and a half years I’ve lived here I’ve seen five pedestrians get hit by cars or cabs and usually resulting in one limb or another getting put on backward. Three of those incidents resulted in laughter from an onlooker. Not a smile nor a snicker, outright laughter. I’ve lived all over the US, in Brasil and Mexico, and I’ve never seen that before. Maybe they do that in Europe and Singapore but I don’t believe to the extent they do it here.
One of the most common forms of humor here is ridicule. In fact, I don’t believe many of my students are aquianted with any other form.
‘Some Koreans, not all, are notoriously callous and cruel towards the poor, downtrodden, divorced & orphaned….’ yet another expat
yes, and some expats, not all, are not only cruel and callous, they’re also ugly and couldn’t get a date back home. what’s your point?
‘Though there weren’t many of them, some Korean-Americans disliked me for having…’ quote from lady in article
ain’t it interesting how the expat takes ‘there weren’t many of them’ and changes it to ‘all of them…’?
‘This is not to say that there are no rude Germans, but society as a whole does not condone such behaviour…’
german people are some of the nastiest people on planet earth. back before the olympics, the german government had to give classes to show germans how to be friendly. germans as polite? i don’t think so.
# 9,
I call BS on Ms. Kim’s story. She sounds bitter, distressed and downtrotted, very ready to blame others for her misfortunes. The odd thing is that most Korean Americans are more conservative in their political views then the standard Korean living in Korea. You are free to be a lot more anti-North Korean here in the states because you have no political party requesting that you tone it down and you are thousands of miles away.
My gut tells me she is just a bad manicurist because seriously, there are tons of other places for her to work at. And if other Koreans didn’t like her she can work for a Vietnamese manicure shop because there are a ton of those too. My gut also tells me she got into the states on a tourist or student visa and is just overstaying her “visit.”
I third #9’s and #12’s suspicions that Ms. Kim is someone Robert facetiously refers to as an “undocumented American.”
I second Pawi’s gripe that once again, some folks are using this sort of story to make negative generalizations about Korea and Koreans. Here in the land of Horatio Algerism, there are many Americans who have little sympathy for the less fortunate and believe that if you are poor, it is your own fault. This is sometimes true, sometimes not.
As for Koreans “laughing” at accident victims (#10), I would be careful about mistaking nervous or embarrassed laughter for mockery or snickering. I have seen on countless occasions, Koreans laugh in embarrassment at bad news or in an uncomfortable or awkward situation. This is not unique to Korea. Smiling or laughing to relieve discomfort is a natural human response that is suppressed in some cultures. When my aunt walked in the door almost twenty-five years ago and confirmed that our father had died of a heart attack, my younger brothers eyed each other and suppressed smiles. They weren’t happy to lose our father; they were bewildered and uncomfortable.
In support of sonagis’ explanation, anthropologists now think laughter evolved as a false alarm mechanism. If you see someone fall down and bump their head but they are ok, its funny. If they fall down and blood comes out, its not funny. Pretty simple.
Neurologists have found further evidence in stroke patients whose brains are damaged and automatically triggered a laughter response for otherwise painfull things, like getting stuck with needles.
#11
Paragraph 1 “‘Some Koreans, not all, are notoriously callous and cruel towards the poor, downtrodden, divorced & orphaned….’ yet another expat”
Paragraph 4 “ain’t it interesting how the expat takes ‘there weren’t many of them’ and changes it to ‘all of them…’?”
Can’t say I’m shocked, but you completely contradict yourself here. If you read the first paragraph of your post again, you quote the expat in question as having written, “Some Koreans, not all…” In the fourth paragraph you claim that he/she is referring to all Koreans.
#15
GVI
Poor formatting might have caused you to misread pawi’s post. I suggest you reread before bashing him, however fun it may be.
# 15, C’mon, do you really expect close reading from an illiterate bigot? If real Koreans were like pawi, who would want to live here?
Most simple equation in the universe: pawi = troll.
Indeed. Re: #11:
“ain’t it interesting how the expat takes ‘there weren’t many of them’ and changes it to ‘all of them…’?”
Et tu, Pawi ?
Do you even notice how contradictory you are ? In the same sentence you criticize someone for generalizing against Koreans, you generalize against expats in Korea.
As a demonstration, simply replace “Pawi” with “the Korean” or “the gyopo” (take your pick), and see how it feels.
globalvillageidiot, you are incorrect.
You wrote:
Paragraph 4 “ain’t it interesting how the expat takes ‘there weren’t many of them’ and changes it to ‘all of them…’?”
That’s not what it says in comment 4.
“many” is the word that was used- twice.
I never once wrote the word “all”, so I didn’t contradict myself.
You simply changed the words yourself to make it look like I did.
Interestingly, Pawikirogi said the same thing, but I think he was just confused and talking about 2 different people’s comments.
Try to get your facts straight!
globalvillageidiot, you are incorrect.
You wrote:
Paragraph 4 “ain’t it interesting how the expat takes ‘there weren’t many of them’ and changes it to ‘all of them…’?”
That’s not what it says in comment 4.
“many” is the word that was used- twice.
I never once wrote the word “all”, so I didn’t contradict myself.
You simply changed the words yourself to make it look like I did.
Interestingly, Pawikirogi said the same thing, but I think he was just confused and talking about 2 different people’s comments.
Try to get your facts straight!
Pawi’s been good for my Latin.
Cruelty or neglect towards the unfortunate-in-life is very much evident in modern Korean culture, at least equivalent to the contempt proclaimed for them by America’s Republicans. But i for one would be very reluctant to ascribe this to Korea’s Confucianism, as was done at the beginning of these comments.
Please consider these parts of the famous “Western Inscription” by Zhang Zai (Chang Tsai), universally considered to be one of the key statements of Neo-Confucian philosophy and placed at the very top by Korea’s leading N-C Sage, Toegye Yi Hwang (w1000 bill):
Ch’ien [Heaven] is called the Father
and K’un [Earth] is called the Mother.
I, this tiny being, am commingled in their midst;
therefore what fills up all between Heaven and Earth,
that is my body,
and that which directs Heaven and Earth is my nature.
The people are my siblings,
and all living things are my companions.
My Ruler is the eldest son of my parents,
and his ministers are his retainers.
To respect those great in years is the way to
“treat the elderly as elderly should be treated.”
To be kind to the orphaned and the weak is the way to
“treat the young as young should be treated.” …
All under Heaven who are tired, crippled, exhausted,
sick, brotherless, childless,
widows or widowers
– all are my siblings who are helpless
and have no one else to appeal to.
To care for them at such times
is the practice of a good son.
To be delighted and without care,
because trusting Them (Heaven & Earth),
is the purest filial piety. …
That particular skirmish was during the world cup and played down.
I only remember hearing about it after the world cup.
I usually keep my eye out for such a thing…maybe I was too into the football. But funny how it makes the English papers just after world cup finished..a week or more after the shootout occured.
But what about the near fatal 2-month long caugh? I’ve had an itchy elbow for years now and have always been told its nothing. i suddenly feel very vulnerable.
“globalvillageidiot, you are incorrect.
You wrote:
Paragraph 4 “ain’t it interesting how the expat takes ‘there weren’t many of them’ and changes it to ‘all of them…’?”
That’s not what it says in comment 4.
“many” is the word that was used- twice.
I never once wrote the word “all”, so I didn’t contradict myself.
You simply changed the words yourself to make it look like I did.
Interestingly, Pawikirogi said the same thing, but I think he was just confused and talking about 2 different people’s comments.
Try to get your facts straight!”
I never said you contradicted yourself. I wasn’t even talking about your comments; I was referring to pawi’s selective presentation/interpretation of other posts. (And, I don’t believe he was confusing others’ comments, so much as twisting them.) On that count, if you read his post and make a logical leap from paragraph 1 to paragraph 4, my facts are fairly straight. If anybody should be getting his facts straight, it is pawi.
globalvillageidiot, I owe you a serious apology.
Sorry for that!
Big brain fart on my part!
More proof that should not post while I’m not fully awake yet.
Will try to do better next time.
Surprise, surprise, it was Pawi!
#23: “…at least equivalent to the contempt proclaimed for them by America’s Republicans.”
Care to provide any examples of this? Or should we look at the Democrats and their slavish obedience to the NEA (the teachers’ union) and against vouchers, which deadens the educational opportunities of inner city youth.
there’s no confusion and contradictions with what i wrote. it’s just as the poster said- it was formatted poorly.
‘Do you even notice how contradictory you are ? In the same sentence you criticize someone for generalizing against Koreans, you generalize against expats in Korea.’ miguknamja
man, you are dense! oh, the irony.
a long time ago, someone told me that a mutual friend had aids. now, when i heard this news, i had to deal with two things; first, i had to deal with the possibility that a guy i thought was straight was gay and then, i had to deal with the fact he was going to die, since at that time, aids was a fatal disease. i didn’t know what to do or say, so i actually cracked a smile making my friend blow up at me. i didn’t know how to explain the smile to him because i didn’t know how to explain it to myself.
thanks, sonagi.
@11:
“german people are some of the nastiest people on planet earth. back before the olympics, the german government had to give classes to show germans how to be friendly. germans as polite? i don’t think so.”
Pawi,
this might well be true, but I do not exactly remember, because I was only 7 years old when, in 1972, the Olympic Summer Games were held in Munich. No other Olympic Games, neither Summer Games nor Winter Games, have been held in Germany after that year…
Pawi,
I know you’ve got an excellent long-term memory, just your STM is a little bit weak… Do not worry - this is the entirely normal for those over the age of 80…
As pointed out by many, after examination, this woman’s story doesn’t seem up to snuff.
Suspicions about the visa and job situation- makes the story a bit suspect!
Sorry, should have read:
…this is entirely normal for those…
The Olympic Games and their host countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games
yeah, fantasy, you can’t change a post after you post it. i saw i put olympics, i meant the world cup. i read an article in the nyt about how the german government was concerned about how germans would treat all them foreigners. thus, they started to offer classes on how to be polite.
i thought it was funny for you to compare a people who are superficially rude (the koreans) with a people who are inherently rude (the germans). having said all that, i must say i like germans because they’re so blunt.
You’re welcome, Pawi (#31), but don’t think we’re friends or anything.
I don’t quite grok the distinction between “superficially” and “inherently” rude (in other words, rude is rude), but having experienced behavior in the public sphere in both Germany and Korea extensively, there’s no question that the Germans are much more civil and far less rude.
When you are betrayed by your own government, and had to immigrate to find solace… it only takes one loony radical f&*kjockey to ruin your day.
People don’t remember the vast majority of people who just go around doing their business quietly. But they will remember that one f*(ker who attacks them in some real vile personal attack.
Some of us then are left to ponder why some people are f&8kers. Is it economical? Social? Cultural?
All I can say is that a lot of Koreans think that by coming to United States somehow they will find their life’s answers are some abstract portion of their life will improve. But it doesn’t necessarily happen that way. A lot of Korean people think of United States like how a lot of fresh undergraduates think about law school. You sort of do it when you don’t know whatelse to do with your life. Once you make the commitment you find out that things were not the way you imagined it would be. Some people wind up doing fantabulous well, but a lot of people just hate their life choices and get by.
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