Right now, during the pleasant (and hectic) Chusok holiday, the people of Burma (Myanmar) are facing the violence of a military junta, run by generals that have wrongfully ruled that country for the last nineteen years. Buddhist monks have finally joined the protest against these generals, demanding an end to military repression and a dusk-to-dawn curfew has been declared. There are signs that the use of deadly force against the people are iminent.
Oddly enough, there are similarities between the controlling generals that hold Burma and North Korea. To quote the NY Times:
. . . (Burma) Run by a small clique of generals — not all of whom may like each other — the junta is made up mostly of unsophisticated former field commanders who seem suspicious of the outside world and even of well-educated Burmese like their nemesis, the pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi. The government has kept her under house arrest for 12 of the past 18 years.“They are extremely hunkered down, delusional, paranoid, and probably afraid at the moment about what could possibly happen,” said David Mathieson, an expert on Myanmar with Human Rights Watch, but as juntas go, this one has been remarkably successful by one measure: it has kept its grip on power for two decades despite giving the people of Myanmar little reason to support it.
It jails its critics, dragoons townspeople into forced labor and keeps order through a climate of fear, while pauperizing a potentially thriving nation through its economic incompetence.
Calling themselves the State Peace and Development Council, the ruling generals have maintained a policy of isolation for their country and have in turn isolated themselves from the population, a bunker within a bunker.
This may sound very familiar to many because it is very similar to the situation in North Korea – a country that has recently normalized diplomatic ties with Burma. Not only has North Korea and Burma normalized ties, there is some concern that this could constitute a new security threat in the region. Interestingly enough, the two countries have very close ties to China and are actively sponsored by China.
Considering the situation in Burma and the odd similarity with North Korea, this moment in history should have a special resonance for South Koreans, since they have experienced the same history of protesting against a brutal military regime but it seems that the South Korean Government has actually had more to do with aiding this very military dictatorship in Burma.
The incident that I refer to is that of the illegal Daewoo/Doosan arms technology transfer that occurred over several years, for which a number of South Korean executives were arrested in December of 2006 but, to date, no further word or news of this event has surfaced. A “cone of silence” has descended upon the whole affair. Oddly enough, China was involved, yet again, since Daewoo developed the gas fields in the sea, south of Burma, yet China stepped in at the last moment to effectively take control of the fruits of this project instead of Korea being allowed to purchase Burmese natural gas.
The whole affair suggests that the South Korean Government allowed for the illegal weapons technology to Burma since this transfer took place over several years and was not just a one-time transaction. Considering the silence on this issue, in South Korea, there is little left to suggest otherwise.
To top it all off, Ban Ki-Moon, formerly of the Korean Government and now the Secretary General of the U.N. released a very mild statement on the whole affair.
It is very difficult to frame an appropriate reaction to this whole sorry, sordid history, but one can only hope that the there will be an improvement in the collective sense of morality and sensibilities of the Korean Government in this coming election and maybe we will finally find out just what the current administration has actually done during this tenure, that is if it is not swept under a rug, out of collective shame.
Update: The government of Myanmar began a violent crackdown on Wednesday after tolerating more than a month of ever larger protests in cities around the country. Security forces clubbed and tear-gassed protesters, fired shots into the air and arrested hundreds of the monks who are at the heart of the demonstrations.
In response to the violence, the United Nations Security Council called an emergency meeting on Wednesday to discuss the crisis, but China blocked a Council resolution, backed by the United States and European nations, to condemn the government crackdown. However, Secretary General Ban Ki-moon announced that the United Nations was “urgently dispatching” a special envoy to Myanmar, formerly known as Burma.
It sounds like Kwangju all over again except this time, it’s sponsored by China and aided by the current South Korean Government.
Update 2: As per an article in today’s Joongang Ilbo, the true face of Korean concern emerges:
. . . Kim Sang-ook, an executive of Daewoo International Corp., one of the largest Korean investors in Burma, said the company is not concerned about sanctions (against Burma), because “Burma is already under all the possible sanctions.” He said the company’s natural gas development project in Burma will continue because it holds a contract signed with the Burmese government. “Even in extreme political changes such as replacement of the current regime, our project will not be canceled, because the country is seeking ways to survive through development of natural resources, especially gas,” he said.
Last month, the company announced that three natural gas fields in Burma, in which it has a 60-percent stake, hold as much as 219.2 billion cubic meters (7.7 trillion cubic feet) of exploitable gas ― the biggest gas reserve ever discovered by a Korean company.
That is quite a callous and telling observation from the very chaebol that illegally gave the Burmese junta the technology to produce munitions; munitions that are likely being used right now. I must mention that the company that made the technology transfer was allegedly not an official part of Daewoo but as to when it officially became independent of Daewoo is a conveniently unknown and, as mentioned earlier, it is unknown if the Korean Government will ever release any facts in this case.
Update 3: As per the NY Times, Myanmar’s armed forces appeared to have succeeded today in sealing tens of thousands of protesting monks inside their monasteries, but they continued to attack bands of civilian demonstrators who challenged them in the streets of the main city, Yangon. . . . Diplomats said there was no way to estimate the numbers of dead and wounded in Yangon or other cities, but they said it was certainly far higher than the number the junta has reported.
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41 Comments
The crackdown is well underway. The BBC is reporting that security forces stormed a monastery and arrested about 100 monks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asi.....015544.stm
I’m glad Robert mentioned BKM and his lack of action on the matter at present. I think this is reflective of his ‘low key approach’ or incompetance, as I would prefer to call it.
The common denominator of Chinese relations with some of the world’s most despicable governments is its quests for minerals and oil, wrapped in the self-righteous diplomatic principle of non-interference in other countries’ internal affairs – which also cynically serves as a pretext to abuse its own citizens’ human rights whenever the situation suits the CCP’s purposes, no matter how trivial.
At the same time, the so-called democracies, be they from S Korea, the US or wherever, at times, are not much better in their quest for their own business ends. In doing so, they have been too quick to turn the eye from China’s domestic policies, yet willing to take a high-profile, moralist approach when there is little business to be had from dealing with the same despicable governments.
While the upcoming Chinese Olympics may not be on same, low level as the Berlin Olympics in Nazi Germany, there seems certain there will be more than the usual amount of white wash to be applied – at the expense of the exploited millions who will not able to benefit from this mass media sports event.
The depth and breadth of this form of hypocrisy can boggle even the most jaded mind.
Robert,
I STILL cannot comment on certain threads like the Dokdo thread. I log in, and it says I am not logged in.
ARGH!
JK — WP-Cache disabled. You should be good to go now.
Re:
“To top it all off, Ban Ki-Moon, formerly of the Korean Government and now the Secretary General of the U.N. released a very mild statement on the whole affair.”
That seems to insinuate that Ban Ki-Moon may be acting unethically by caring more about South Korean politics than his much more important role as U.N. Secretary General. I can’t say unequivocally either way whether you’re right or wrong.
To play devil’s advocate, however, his statement makes it pretty clear about which side he and the U.N. is on (emphasis mine):
“…the Secretary-General calls on the authorities to exercise maximum restraint in responding to any demonstrations…”
As for the statement lacking teeth, I’d say he’s merely doing his job. He can’t commit U.N. troops without the Security Council, which is being blocked by China.
As an aside, this is exactly why the U.N. is so weak : the executive branch plays little more than an administrative and public relations role while 1 veto by a member of the Security Council can block a resolution with no chance to override that veto.
Much like the transition of the U.S. from the weak Articles of Confederation to the U.S. Constitution, the U.N. must transition from a weak charter where participants keep all of their sovereign power to one where the central government has specific and strong powers over the member nations/states.
Hence, it is a double-edged sword and is highly unlikely to happen - no major power will willingly allow the U.N. to have that much power over them. I predict the U.N. will only have teeth when:
1) The relative power and influence of the major (super)powers weakens
2) Thus allowing the less powerful nations to form a stronger U.N. with a much stronger charter/constitution that is designed to balance the major (super)powers.
However it happens, it will likely be bad news for the U.S. and China and good news for the smaller states and will likely be triggered by one or a series of catastrophic events, like a major war, just as the League of Nations and current U.N. were brought about under similar circumstances in the aftermath of world wars.
That’s what you say. I’d rather fight than switch. If you are so fond of a creeping seizure of sovereignty from states to an unelected super-government, may I suggest the European Union to you?
You profess a love of “liberalism” (which we economic liberals read as “socialism”). Europe is rotten with that. You’ll like it there.
Agree with Miguk in regards to BKM’s acting within the limited scope of the UN’s powers, and likewise disagree with making the UN any stronger. As regards China, we can’t accuse it of being hypocritical. It tolerates no government taking steps against its own citizens that china it is not willing to take against its own.
Between 2003 and 2005 South Korea provided Myanmar with roughly 6.9 million dollars in ODA. This may not sound like a lot, but considering Korea’s ODA is already small, it does represent a good chunk of ODA allocation. The money has been spent on Power plants, roads, and railroad construction. Korea also invites government officials to Korea for training.
In addition to Myanmar, Korea also provides ODA to Ethiopia.
Both Myanmar and Ethiopia buy weapons from North Korea.
Go figure eh?
Chiamattt, S Korea’s friendly relations with Burma/Myanmar partly grew out of NK’s terrorist bombing of Chun Doo Hwan’s cabinet during a visit to Burma in the early 80s. Chun escaped harm but many cabinet members were killed, afterwhich Burma/Myanmar sided with S Korea over N Korea. Now, of course, N Korea has much more in common with Burma than S Korea - both dictatorships in the Chinese sphere of influence.
Robert talks about the similarities between the two, but there are some big differences - 50 years of British rule in Burma followed by 14 years of democracy, more development of civil society, independent religious groups, vs. extremely centralized control under the Kim Il Sung and Jung Il of N Korea with cult of personality, etc.
The combined strength of the monks + students + pro-democratic leaders like Aung San Suu Kyi, and divisions within the ruling military would seem to give democracy a chance in Burma (and a resemblence to pre 87 S Korea) except for the China factor. China is supporting the junta and facing similar pressure to liberalize, would feel threatened by another democracy on its border. So, that could be a problem for the monks.
As for Miguk Namja’s comments - yes you are probably right to look at the global distribution of power as a factor influencing the UN’s effectiveness, but I think you have it backwards - US global hegemony after WW2 created the UN, and US dominance following the collapse of the Soviet Union allowed for a wider UN role, but a diffusion of power will allow other medium and great powers to resist. The EU is a pretty unusual case, made possible by similar security interests, high degree of interdependence and cultural ties.
Re #7
Brendon,
I hereby dub thee “Master of hand-picking a phrase or paragraph out of context”.
Had you been less focused on straw-man tactics and read my very next paragraph, you would have seen:
“Hence, it is a double-edged sword and is highly unlikely to happen - no major power will willingly allow the U.N. to have that much power over them.”
Yes, I lean to the left, but not as far left as you paint me to lean. Also, I’ve been to Europe many times. It’s a great place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there, precisely because it is too socialized.
However, if you disagree with my analysis of the weakness of the U.N. and how a stronger one might be formed, whether I, you, we, want it or not, I’m all ears.
To further separate my earlier analysis from my opinion, I’ll state just my opinion:
I’m not sure if I want a stronger U.N. or not, especially as a U.S. citizen. It’s hard to justify a stronger U.N. just yet.
However, should a crisis of a global scale occur and threaten every nation, then, yes, we’d pretty much need a more centralized form of government for this planet, which would likely be the U.N. or its successor.
Such a crisis might be:
a) alien invasion
b) regulation of massively powerful WMDs (cheap, briefcase nukes, for example)
c) massive, global climate change
We have yet to experience any of these, so, no, a stronger U.N. is not yet needed. However, the last one is becoming more and more plausible, unfortunately
deleted (so far off-topic and idiotic that it must be drug-induced)
Daewoo was an indiscriminate arms dealer.
(elided — off-topic)
Maybe WJK was really off-topic here. But he keeps providing valuable input in other threads, so he is and will hopefully remain one of the prime contributors to this blog…
#12 Miguk — It’s not physically possible to put a nuclear weapon in a briefcase.
It’s possible to make an extremely small and portable nuclear weapon (it has been accomplished by US and Soviet Union– I have yet to see anything in the public domain that suggests any of the other nuclear powers have actually done the same, though I’ll guess that China, the UK, and France are technically capable of doing so).
But these very small nuclear weapons are not so small that they can be carried like a briefcase. The ones that were designed by the US and the Soveit Union to be extremely portable are more accurately described as “steamer trunk” nukes; they would realistically have to be moved about in at least an American style SUV, though I think some were designed to be man portable in multiple back-pack carried portions that are reassembled before arming).
The Myanmar-North Korea comparison is somewhat accurate. When I was in Myanmar about nine years ago, I was struck by the propaganda billboards everywhere, similar slogans all over the front page of the English newspaper (”New Light of Myanmar” it is called), and the road blocks that stopped buses every few km or so (so as to keep track of any vehicle moving about it would seem.) I guess that kids are commonly drafted into the military or labor crews, plus supposed and real dissidents seem to have a stange habit of going to jail or just disappearing into thin air. You could also count on the power going off - even in Yangon - for several hours/day. (It was the first time I’ve ever landed at an airport in a city of 5 million + where there were almost no lights to speak of.)
I had a lot of good talks with locals, many of them students who could no longer attend universities that the government had closed - but they would always tell you, “The walls have ears,” when you started to have some good conversations. Almost as if they were just as interested in looking out for you as for themselves. Didn’t stop us from having some great conversations - the likes of which are hard to come by with even the best English speakers/educated elite of Korea - late into many an evening.
I later caught some grief from a couple of people for going there, but I would still argue that making some positive connections with the people of Myanmar is a preferable strategy to swearing off the place and leaving it more isolated than it already is. (Unlike North Korea, you can go there and avoid giving little or anything to directly subsidize the ruling dictatorship.)
The whole situation is a terrible shame because in spite of all the shit they have to put up with each and every day, the people of Myanmar are among the friendliest I’ve had the pleasure to have met. Great archeological and cultural places to experience too - definately on par with anything I’ve seen in Cambodia or Thailand.
And as for the Korean connection, there was no shortage of Daewoo, LG, or Samsung electrical appliance shops. (Didn’t meet too many people who could have afforded their products, but the stores were all over the place.) Actually, they were the best places to change money on the black market. Unlike Vietnam - and maybe because the Burmese drive on the left hand side of the road - there weren’t too many non-Japanese cast off buses and cars roaming the country’s decrepid streets and roads.
As per what Paul H. was saying about nukes, refer to the “Davy Crockett” warhead; one small enough to fit on a shoulder fired rocket launcher (but mounted on a tripod. Who would want to shoulder fire that thing?!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D....._device%29
My father got a lucky break. As his unit was getting on the bus to Vietnam, they grabbed him and one other person to go train to fire these things in Germany…
Robert, re: #5, thanks.
Now let’s say what people said on Dokdo!
@ captbbq
Who would shoulder-fire a nuclear warhead?
http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts.....rooper.jpg
@ Miguknamja
But do you think that the current trend towards globalization will eventually lead to a AoC –> Constitution like transition within the United Nation without any global catastrophe? And I don’t mean like in the next couple of decades, but you know… eventually ^^.
Or.. are the obstacles like xenophobia, cultural nationalism, hegemonies, language, etc. will be insurmountable?
They started arresting and beating monks and began firing on the protesters with assault rifles. One of the victims is a Japanese journalist.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ar.html?hp
That photo in the nyt article of the sandals on the ground immediately reminded me of this photo from the Kwangju uprising:
http://iam518.com/board/zboard.....amp;no=357
Of course, during the Kwangju uprising you didn’t see the US president calling for sanctions against South Korea as president Bush has against Burma, which goes to show how constrained US options are when they have troops in a country considered a major chess piece in the struggle against communism - there’s no room for the possibility of instability..
Just to make it clear, having looked closely at what happened at that time, I don’t think that the US was responsible for what happened at all. In fact, I think Chun Doo-hwan did his best to make it look like the US was responsible to take the heat off of himself (like when the US asked him to distribute leaflets in Kwangju with the US position - saying they hoped both sides would calm down and come to an agreement - and instead he broadcast into Kwangju that the US had approved the use of the paratroopers who set off the uprising - a blatant lie. Later he almost destroyed General Wickhams’s career by misrepresenting his comments about possible US acceptance of Chun should he win the election). The person most responsible for anti-Americanism related to the Kwangju uprising was Chun, though most people tend not to recognize this.
A question lingers: If some Burmese had managed to arm themselves and hold off the army briefly and die as martyrs in 1988, would it have taken people 19 years to find the bravery to stand up to the military?
Compared to North Korea, it sounds like these generals in Burma are relative amateurs at repression. Sounds much closer to South Korea in the days of Chun: nasty, but no comparison to North Korea.
snow, I think that’s because Burma has failed to doctrinate into the public mind that the ruler is god.
You have surely seen the North Korea girl praising Kim Jong Il after surgery on her eyes.
North Korea did that ruler=god concept following and continuing on Japan’s Emperor.
It jived incredibly well.
See, Burma still has Buddhist monks and monastaries.
How about North Korea? Monks? Buddhist temples?
No, thou shalt believe in the Juche-god, the pudgy Mr. Kim. He has access to the best food and women and facilities, yet he boasts probably the ugliest ddong-bae, easily outmatching the avg US Joe’s pot belly.
Mr. Elgin, with all due respect, I DO NOT use ANY mind altering drugs, and all I had was a Kirin Ichiban for dinner, and that was 10 hours before I posted my comment.
If you disagree with my RELEVANT comment about Indo China’s fate due to US policy in the last 50 years, okay.
All I am saying is ~
Give Conservatives a voice.
It was a piece of my mind worthy of coming out of Ann Coulter’s mouth.
Or, for that matter, how constrained ones actions are when the target of criticism is North Korea, and ones ruling party and progressive civic groups have tremendous political capital invested in portraying Pyongyang as misunderstood brothers rather than brutal tyrants:
http://www.kois.go.kr/News/New.....8;part=103
I think it is a bit unfair to categorize a dumbass statement made by a Daewoo executive as “the true face of Korean concern emerges.” That being said, I fully endorse calling out dumbass company officials when they say dumbass things, especially when it represents the true feelings at a sometimes dumbass company.
No “ecorn”, unfair is having nineteen years of gangster-style generals run a country or unfair would be how Korean chaebol are allowed to run amok so long as someone feels that they have the economic interests of Korea at heart. I would gladly refer these anonymous Koreans to words from one of their illustrious forebearers, Kim Gu, from his journal at Baekbeom:
No, considering the prosecutors that arrested a number of supposedly responsible Koreans are controlled by the current administration that apparently allowed the wrongful empowerment of the Myanmar junta, I do not think my observations about a Daewoo executive or the current administrations’ lack of concern for human life are “unfair”, especially considering that these people will not need to worry about someone shooting them while being interviewed about their company’s profits or their alleged achievements on behalf of the Korean economy.
WJK wrote:
One recently restored temple in North Korea and there are even monks there, though they are not seen often.
Please limit your inner jackass to open threads.
“the true face of Korean concern emerges.”
The true face of [corporate] concern emerges, you mean. Just because a Korean business is doing work in a repressive country does not mean that that’s “Korea’s” true face. There are quite a few Canadian companies doing business in Saudi Arabia. Are you saying that the true face of Canada is to see women banned from driving, migrant workers killed, and state sponsored repression? Give me a break dude.
The true face of French concern has emerged dude! To the keyboard!
http://www.iht.com/articles/20...../total.php
“chiamatt” do you actually believe that any government will have no active role or voice in the larger business concerns that large industries — ones that are so closely aligned with national concerns and image — engage in? There are so many news articles that would suggest differently from what you write. For better or worse, an elected government is a representation of its people, though it might be like Jekyll and Hyde.
I take offense at that, Mr. Elgin.
One temple or fingerful for millions of people?
Does that make sense to you?
It’s just for show like the Official state sponsored Protestant and Catholic churches in Pyong Yang.
The real faith is Juche.
The other faiths are for show to the world that Book Han has “religious freedom.”
in all seriousness, I see that there’s a monk with a wedding ring, and a full set of unshaven hair.
Very weird.
A girl with a full set of hair in a colorful handbok, with a US $1 in her hand, selling trinkets and souvenirs to the South Koreans.
Actually, it’s not weird.
There is NO freedom of religion in North Korea.
That should be elementary knowledge.
“chiamattT” do you actually believe that any government will have no active role or voice in the larger business concerns that large industries — ones that are so closely aligned with national concerns and image — engage in?
If what you say is true, why doesn’t the US government force yahoo and google (both american companies, and powerful industry leaders) to stop filtering and censoring search content the repressive Chinese government wants them to hold back?
Isn’t what you say - that governments hold sway over corporations - kinda communist?
“Chiamatt” you fail to make the distinction between bullets and web searching. Daewoo handed over armament technology to people who are using it to kill, google and yahoo — churls though they be — are of information which probably does not kill (I hope). There is nothing Communist about a government having the power to exert control over business through the use law or threat of enforcement.
Yes, even my own country of origin engages in questionable activities. I can neither make monkeys or train them.
#28,
WJK is right. Those monks are just for show, to give the impression that North Korea has such a thing as freedom of religion. I believe they also have a church that serves the same purpose.
Good point. You can always count on the progressives never to see the parallels in the two situations; however terrible the violence in Kwangju was, the system they’re supporting is much, much worse.
You may want to change eminent, in your line,
“There are signs that the use of deadly force against the people are eminent.”
to “imminent.”
Someone had the bright idea of looking for satellite evidence of the abuses (makes you wonder about what else goes on around the world that is silently observed by spy satellited and then ignored by our governments).
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WO.....index.html
As of Monday 1 October US time, here’s an astonishing (if true) report from a UK newspaper:
“Thousands of protesters are dead and the bodies of hundreds of executed monks have been dumped in the jungle, a former intelligence officer for Burma’s ruling junta has revealed.
The most senior official to defect so far, Hla Win, said: “Many more people have been killed in recent days than you’ve heard about. The bodies can be counted in several thousand….
Reports from exiles along the frontier confirmed that hundreds of monks had simply “disappeared” as 20,000 troops swarmed around Rangoon yesterday to prevent further demonstrations by religious groups and civilians.
Word reaching dissidents hiding out on the border suggested that as well as executions, some 2,000 monks are being held in the notorious Insein Prison or in university rooms which have been turned into cells.
There were reports that many were savagely beaten at a sports ground on the outskirts of Rangoon, where they were heard crying for help.
Others who had failed to escape disguised as civilians were locked in their bloodstained temples…”
Wow. Suddenly (if this report is accurate) — a Burma/North Korean comparison is looking much more apt.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag....._id=484903
That’s worse than I had heard before Paul. Burma is the real blood-for-oil scenario — not Iraq.
So it seems that India, France, China and maybe Japan are interested in the natural resources of Burma but it was suggested to me that Korea gave them Daewoo arms technology as a China proxy so as to hide Chinese influence as well as make nice with China so as to promote Korean interests in North Korea.
“…That’s worse than I had heard before…”
I’m almost as astonished to see that during the day today (Monday US time) there has been absolutely zippo about this particular report of massive deaths by a defecting intelligence officer of the miltary regime — on US cable news channels (CNBC, FOX, Headline News, CNN, MSNBC — I usually have ne of them on).
You might want to check to see if on-line NYT or WaPo is covering it if you have fast broadband; I may get to it eventually however my old slow computer with dial-up is not as nimble.