Play nice. Or else I’ll Tase you.
Marmot’s Open Thread #20
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on September 22, 2007 at 11:11 am, filed under Blogging. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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223 Comments
I would welcome opinions on the following proposal: The US slowdown will cause American consumers to stop buying imported goods, which will cause a fall in the value of the won.
I would also welcome opinions on this proposal: The US slowdown will lead to interest rate drops by the Fed, which will further weaken the dollar, raising the value of the won.
I’m not interested in predictions for the next week. I’ll need dollars within the next 6-12 months, and I’m pondering when to buy them.
I think the weak-dollar trend is probably stronger. Economists are now predicting a “collapse” of the dollar and when compared to currencies like the British Pound, Euro, and Canadian Dollar, the US dollar is already collapsing. The won will catch up.
Although Korea exports a lot to the US, it also exports a lot to Euroland and China. Collapse of the dollar will simply prompt Korean exporters to concentrate on those other markets, while Korean manufacturers look at moving production to the United States in addition to buying real estate assets. And even with the weak dollar, they will overpay.
#2,
God forbid that you’d admit that the exchange rate has anything to do with Canadians doing something right.
I don’t think the US interest rate would affect the strength of the dollar much over the relatively long period of time, such as 6 to 12 months, as the dollar has been declining against just about all the Western currencies.during the last 5 years or so.
I get the feeling that the majority of the financial punters seem to accept that the dollar’s decline is now inevitable, given the level of foreign debt and ever-increasing current account deficit. I think dollar’s decline will continue for some time, probably in a gradual manner as has been the case during the last few years, rather than in a sudden drop, as most of the US’s foreign debts are in US dollars.
As the dollar has changed little against the Won since the beginning of last year, I think it’s likely that the dollar will fall against the Won for some time to come, particularly if the GNP wins the election in December, as it seems 90% likely at this stage, although the current government will try very hard to not pass 900 mark.
#3 -
Wow, you’ve exploded another myth of Korean uniqueness.
Apparently Canadians are han-addled too.
The Canadian dollar was on a 1-to-1 parity with the US dollar yesterday and the Euro around 1.40 US. My fellow countrymen need a wake up call for their foolish ways and this is probably just the phone ringing.
If only we hadn’t elected George Bush! Twice! Then everything would have been wonderful.
That’s right. I favor annexing their land and rounding up the indigenous Canadian population (along with the residents of New York City, San Francisco, and Seattle) into re-education camps. Albertans, Manitobans and Saskatoons can stay, but only if they swear allegiance to the United States of Jesusland.
“The Canadian dollar was on a 1-to-1 parity with the US dollar yesterday and the Euro around 1.40 US. My fellow countrymen need a wake up call for their foolish ways and this is probably just the phone ringing.”
As I was saying this has as much to do with the fact that the Canadian economy is pretty swell right thanks to the high price of oil thanks to the war in Iraq. With the war in Iraq, the US has basically put the wheels in motion to see its currency become devalued against that of its greatest supplier of oil (yup, it’s Canada, not Saudi Arabia). Everything you buy from Canada has gone up…and the Chinese are now competing for it. Yup, Bush has made Canada a lot richer than it already was.
Dammit…
As I was saying, this has as much to do with the fact that the Canadian economy is pretty swell right now thanks to the high price of oil.
Hey, you’re right — Canada is America’s largest supplier of energy. That’s very convenient. And if there is ever a need to seize energy supplies, it’s great we can we can drive there (hell, we can march to Canada if necessary).
Peak oil, if that comes to pass, won’t make Canada rich. It will make Canada American. Shame about the Canadians though — they’ll have to go into those camps I talked about.
Pshaw - those living within the Republic of Cascadia would never submit to that demand.
Alternative- or home-schooling - Yes. Re-education - No!
#11,
It would be very easy for us to thwart the invasion:
At the power plant…
“Hey, Doug. Gordon in Washington DeeCee–you know, Lucy’s brother, the one who can’t hold a beer– well, he told me that the States is about to invade.”
“Bob, I guess it’s time to pull the plug on those hosers, eh?”
…march into Canada? Don’t you know we have like 6 feet of snow in June?
“If only we hadn’t elected George Bush! Twice! Then everything would have been wonderful.”
That’s why they should have mandatory voting. I heard less than 40% of the eligible US electorate actually voted.
Yes, mandatory voting can be a pain in the backside to some people but it makes sure candidates like the current US President are not voted into office.
Surely that’s what we need, more Jesse Jackson votes.
Every night I pray to the gods to send me a nice, liberal Canadian man who’ll marry me and rescue me from AmeriKKKa, where innocent men merely exercising freedom of speech are cruelly tasered by fascist cops.
But they did send you a nice liberal Korean lesbian on a subway one fine day, who may have cured you of the need for a Canadian man on a white horse. Maybe you’re just being too picky.
Sonagi, you could just pick up a fascist American man and convert him to a liberal. I understand Hilary used to be a Republican before she met Bill who converted her to a Democrat.
While it does give a sugar-rush high of ‘National Pride’, no Canadian should welcome US$-CAN$ parity. Having our dollar below the American dollar has been a GDP gravy train for us for decades - why stop now? The Chinese and Japanese have been getting shit from the US forever for keeping their currencies artificially low, while Canada flies, as always, blissfully under the US radar, unnoticed and uncared about. Thank god for that. May America NEVER notice us.
Yeah, whoopee for oil exports, but what about the other 85% of total exports Canada sends to the States? This parity shit is going to put some real ’suffer’ on a whole range of heavy to light manufacturing. God forbid the Canadian dollar start rising above the US one. We’d might as well shut half the factories in Ontario and Quebec down if that happens. Time for the Canadian govt to steal some game pages from Korea and Japan and start sinking the CanuckBuck, pronto! Lets rile up the Quebec separatists again, that’s always good for sinking the Cdollar.
Brendon said: “Hey, you’re right — Canada is America’s largest supplier of energy. That’s very convenient. And if there is ever a need to seize energy supplies, it’s great we can we can drive there (hell, we can march to Canada if necessary).”
Reminds me of a commentary I read on the BusinessWeek site about 6 months back. Chinese Govt/oil company types were visiting Alberta’s oil sands, talking about buying Canadian oil resources and building a pipeline to BC so they could load oil on ships and bring it to China. This witty Brendon-like chap commented “What the Chinese don’t know is that Canada’s oil belongs to America. Unfortunately the Canadians don’t know it either.”
No fear from this Canuck. While Brendon and other disgruntled Yankee-types here in Korea have learned to hate us, pestering their offices with calls for legal advice or stealing that chick from you at the club, the warm comfortable mass of Americans couldn’t care less about Canadians and have the fuzzy image that Canada belongs to them already anyways. God bless em for that.
Brendon’s wrong about one thing - Canada is going to milk the peak oil thing all the way down the slope, and Americans won’t even mention it - for them it is like Texas or Oklahoma is making money.
Repeat after me, Canucks: MAY THEY NEVER NOTICE US.
Not quite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands
I wonder where the High Two/Three Comma People are investing/hiding their assets.
Sometimes I consider becoming a Canadian.
Would it be so bad to give up on The Colors and negotiate a merger of all the central and north american countries? What kind of economic/military/political powerhouse would that create?
I know…too liberal.
You mean like Italy? Berlusconi was Bush on Angel Dust my friend…
The high price of oil was coming regardless of Iraq. Consider the fact that Iraqs production has surpased prewar levels and the current demand is coming from a China with an increasing higer standard of living there (more people with cars, more factories demanding more energy etc..)
In fact, that was part of the reason we invaded IMHO. The US saw the high oil price coming and realized Saddam’s net wealth was about to double, possibly triple sitting on all that oil. Had the US not removed his happy ass, China (silently backed by Europe) would have quickly rethought those sanctions and empowered him again.
And if you read Greenspan closely, I think you’ll find he agrees…
Before you demonize Bush as anti-children’s health care, I’d like you to be aware that in the US, it seems it you are aged 0-18 (25 in some states), and aged 65+, you ARE getting socialized heatlh care.
Interestingly, covering children’s health (SCHIP) is running on a deficit.
Interestingly, covering senior’s health is also running on a deficit.
Why?
People take advantage of govt programs, that’s why. People who make up to $80K can find a way to get the govt to pay for their children’s medical care, in some states. Have you been to the Emergency Room in the US? Costs lot of money to normal people. In the US, many parents run to the ER all the time, for things they could have taken care of at home or during the daytime at an outpatient office. SCHIP pays for it, that’s why. Child with asthma was prescribed an inhaler. Parent never uses it. When the child gets sick every 5 months or so, guess where that child is? In the ER, showing severe symptoms of asthma, staying there for 12 hours. All the parent had to do was use the inhaler regularly.
Even if they could afford to pay for their own healthcare, they would go out of their way to get the govt to pay for it.
Sad reality is, Americans pay taxes and don’t agree that they shouldn’t reap the benefits.
But, that is the Democrat’s mantra. I’m rich and I’ll pay a lot of taxes so poor people will benefit. We see this reality that middle income and rich people are not jiving with that at all. They want some, too.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....pr_wh/bush
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_a.....t_id=11753
They say they will fund SCHIP by cigarette taxes.
What happens when nobody smokes anymore? Or realisitically, less people smoke?
And, what if anything are we doing for people who smoke? Shouldn’t they get something, at least SOMETHING for paying cigarette taxes?
Compulsory voting in Australia and the voters there keep returning to power the Liberal-National coaliton, headed by that notorious Bush supporter Howard.
It will remain an eternal cherished illusion of the American liberal left — “if we could only make the American people do what we know is best for them”. Well, maybe Hillary (with the dedicated assistance of the Big He) will finally accomplish this cherished feat.
You can be sure she’ll be getting me out to vote.
Yes, the American liberal left are huge supporters of the wildly successful federally funded abstinence-only sex education program and funding cuts in international family planning programs that don’t meet the moral standards of the religious right. It was Bill Clinton who started tossing a billion dollars a year at religious organizations through “faith-based and community initiatives.”
Interesting story about the Israeli air strike on a Syrian nuclear facility suspected of containing material of NK origin:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....512380.ece
Foreign Policy bloggers are skeptical of the Syrian-NK connection:
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/6251
“Interesting story about the Israeli air strike on a Syrian nuclear facility suspected of containing material of NK origin:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..512380.ece”
Sonagi, thanks for the link. A very interesting story, to say the least. Looks like some of the “material of NK origin” may have been of the human variety. Not-so-mysteriously, the air strike - in particular, its possible impact on six party talks - doesn’t seem to be getting much attention in the South Korean press.
Shouldn’t one always have the option of not exercising his/her right to vote?
Sonagi, when all is said and done, faithfulness to your partner and abstinence until you find the partner is best, in my opinion.
Condoms don’t cover all the rub-rub spots. You can still get stds, and if they break, you can still get pregnant.
Birth control pills prevent pregnancy, not stds.
I do agree with vaccinating all girls against HPV.
That’s just me.
Sonagi, I want you to tell me about the success of those programs where high school students get sex counseling first, and then obtain condoms.
Please, continue.
I’m very interested.
This coming Monday, KBS2 will broadcast the “Minam Suda”(The Guys’ Chatterbox) as a Chusok special at 8pm.
No word on whether or not Brendon Carr will be one of the guys appearing in the special.
WJK, if you got rid of all the liberals girls, then you get rid of all the girls in High School that put out. Either you bring back red light districts or you allow liberal girls to do what they do best.
sumo, I care about the liberal girls.
All girls should get HPV vaccines.
Lib or Con, I do not discriminate professionally.
I’m a good Con.
I watched D-Wars. It’s an abortion strolling around in a baby carriage. It deserves every harsh criticism it gets. Very unfortunate movie. That’s all I’m going to say about it.
Otoh, I watched Secret Sunshine today. The film reminds me of some of the comments that have come up over here lately about Christians and their utterly vacuous faith. I recommend it highly — for many many reasons, that is, but most of all because it owns as a film no matter what its stance is. SS is a fine film. My respect for Lee Chang Dong has shot up a few knotches.
min0306, Mr. Carr is going on that show?
I gotta watch that.
I don’t think you’ll mention it if there was a zero possibility.
I’m not going to be on that show. Just missed the cut again. Damn you, People Magazine and KBS2!
A bit of self-promotion. I have a blog Marmot mentioned a couple weeks ago; mostly about baseball in Asia. I wrote a piece about a Braves AA prospect Jung Sung-ki from Yeosu that’s up now. Also a piece about Daniel Rios of Doosan winning his 20th game.
Stop by if you have a moment…
http://www.eastwindupchronicle.com
#23,
No, the war in Iraq increased the prices of oil. It didn’t create the increase in demand that keeps the prices high right now, but it certainly hastened the increase in prices.
#27,
The fact that conservative politicians in the US are able to get away with clouding the issues with their pro-life/anti-gay marriage stand just baffles me. If they think there are too many abortions, why don’t they fight poverty since there a correlation between it and the incidence of abortions has been found? Oh, but that wouldn’t be acceptable in their mind because that would involve reducing the military budget… and there’s their ‘resolve’ to fight terrorists (ie. non-Christians) in countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 (and while they’re at it, they also prevent the president of a Persian country to go to ground zero. Sure, he isn’t Arab and had nothing to do with 9/11…but he’s brown).
Gay-marriages is a threat to your marriage? Right. Allowing gays to get married would permit them to have some kind of voodoo over you. Next thing you know, married straight men will be listening to Madonna and straight women will laugh at Ellen Degeneres’s jokes. Sounds to me like someone is trying to divert our attention away from, among other things, the fact that conservative politicians and Christian leaders have been caught screwing around.
Gay man explained to me that gay men cheat on each other more than men and women cheat on each other. He explained this to me in the theory of 4 testicles.
I’m serious here.
I’m not lying, either.
2 testicles, one man. Man is always more prone to cheat than the womatn in the relationship.
4 testicles, two men. 2 men, doubling the chances of infidelity.
Now, I haven’t looked up any references on this or anything, and this gay person is my colleague, whom I know from school.
Whether or not it’s true, I don’t know.
But he says it’s rare for gay men couples to last 40, 50 years.
Or even 10 years.
Now he said nothing about gay marriage.
He was just telling me about how his community works.
I conclude that granting rights appropriate to these couples is okay.
Legalizing gay marriage is not.
Why?
They’re not interested in marriage. That’s my observation.
They’re more interested in some of those married peoples’ rights and privileges AND sticking it up the Conservatives, as in a Touche, take that, etc.
Gay marriages is absolutely a threat to heterosexual marriages.
It cheapens marriage.
Sure, there is a 50% rate of break ups in marriages in western countries.
But, you know what? The first men to men marraige in the US went to divorce within a 1 year, I believe.
I’m pretty confident of that on recollection of the news.
Men-men marriages break up faster.
Why legalized it?
Now, I’m not saying anything about women-women marriages. I haven’t talked to a lesbian.
But, as a heterosexual, I say, marriage is for men and women, based on history, tradition, and religion. Don’t bother intruding on this, libs. What we’re more likely to agree on is gtetting you some of the privileges of being married. But, there’s a limit.
That guy from Iran is a holocaust denying Muslim who hates Jewish people and is quite frankly a terrorist head figure who buys nukes, sends killers and killing weapons to Iraq, kidnapped British soldiers, and American citizens. He should be arrested when he lands in New York City.
Gasoline prices shot up because, in my opinion, China has been using up a lot, and there is way, way, way increased demand, and no matching rise in production.
This Korean kid rocks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dox67fM5sME
i protest against automatic censoring and monitoring of my comments, especially in an OPEN thread.
Key points for the socialist Canadian.
Men to men marriages don’t even seem to operate comparably to Men to Women marriages. Leave marriage to people who actually revere it.
Oil demand from Chinese is the blame.
Tehran’s leader is a terrorist, a holocaust denier, a Hitler from the Middle East, a nuke buyer, and fit to be arrested upon landing in New York, but would set a bad precedent for the neutrality of the UN.
#39: You’re all over the map, but how about maybe “Persia” is still an enemy of the U.S. and it has nothing to do with Christianity or the brownness of anyone’s skin? No, there’s no formal declaration of war, but the regime that took our embassy for 444 days is still in power, with one of those “student” hostage takers as its president. So, no, the guy doesn’t get permission to visit Ground Zero. He’s lucky enough that he’s allowed to visit the UN.
“Men to men marriages don’t even seem to operate comparably to Men to Women marriages. Leave marriage to people who actually revere it.”
You’re making that one up. Leave it to people who revere it? Like the more than 50% of hetero married couples who get divorced?
Oil demand now, yes. The premature increase in oil prices following the beginning of the Iraq war, no.
“Tehran’s leader is a terrorist, a holocaust denier, a Hitler from the Middle East, a nuke buyer, and fit to be arrested upon landing in New York, but would set a bad precedent for the neutrality of the UN.”
He’s a terrorist? Any evidence?
A holocaust denier? What’s that got to do with preventing him from going to ground zero?
A nuke buyer? Seems a bit hypocritical of the US to accuse him of breaking the NPT when it has done little to disarm itself, let alone demand its allies to disarm themselves , in accordance with their obligations as stated in the NPT.
#42,
That’s ancient history. Whatever gives the neocons a bogeyman, right?
PS. I recommend you watch CNN’s God’s Warriors: Christians.
i’m not making it up.
I already posted in my censored comment.
A gay man explained this to me. He’s a fellow student.
Gay men cheat on each other, just like men cheat on women. He called it, in his own words, the theory of “4 testicles”.
The one with the balls has the biological tendency to seek as many mates as he can.
Put two of these together, they operate just like other men with two balls.
He claimed 40 years of men to men partners is very rare, and he rarely even sees 10 years.
I am pretty much forced to break up my valuable input, although I have a tendency to do that anyway.
Hear now, Mr. Canadian.
Yes, heteros have a 50% chance of breaking up in marriage, but it is a time honored, history honored, cultural, and religiously sanctioned tradition.
You name me one culture or religion that has dominated human history that sanctions men to men marriages.
You can’t.
Now, I said nothing about women-women relations, which I suspect to last longer, if I buy into my colleagues 4 testicles theory.
Now, don’t get me wrong. It just made sense to me listening to it, I haven’t looked into verifying it in any way.
Tehran has claimed that there was no holocaust, they point long range missiles into Tel Aviv, to be launced when the West attacks, and they have detained British soliders last year, who never came inside Iran, they send killers and armor piercing weapons into Iraq. What more do you want?
This guy should be arrested when he comes. He’s a terrorist, funds and directs Shiite activity in Iraq, attacks US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, has been making a nuke for the last 3 years, etc.
He should die.
#27 -
You mean standards like opposition to coerced and forced abortion and sterilization? Ah, yes, damn those oppressive moralizing bastards on the religious right!
#44,
Whatever. More than 50% of straight marriages end up in divorce within the first years, so it’s not as if there are many straight couples who have been together for 40 years, let alone 10. Besides, how would you explain women who cheat on their husband? The other probably has 4 testicles, right?
#45,
Using that logic, we should ban all religions because some are cults.
Abstinence doesn’t work, huh?
http://www.pop.org/main.cfm?id.....p;eid=1110
#46 -
The UN Population Fund and International Planned Parenthood Federation have a proven track record of participating in coercive and forced abortions and sterilizations. Their practices are abominable, and they shouldn’t receive a dime from the US taxpayer. Yet when their federal funding is yanked, the apostles of abortion-on-demand scream bloody murder. Shows just how much they value a woman’s right to choose, doesn’t it?
As for your comment about banning religion… total red herring. You’re positively foaming at the mouth this morning.
someguy, it’s ironic that you don’t even have a gay acquaintance with whom to verify this with.
Yet, you advocate that they get their marriage.
The first married men to men US couple, divorced within 1 year.
You’re welcome to scour through psychology journals to verify that men cheat way more than women.
#48,
So, ban all abortions because some people may have been coerced? Fine, ban all religions for the the reason.
PS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P....._Institute
“someguy, it’s ironic that you don’t even have a gay acquaintance with whom to verify this with.”
How would you know? I’m not disputing that some gays cheat on their spouse. I’m disputing the fact that arguing that gays shouldn’t be married because of it, that we should “leave marriage to people who actually revere it” is totally hypocritical when infidelity is also a big problem in straight couples, which contributes to the fact that 50% of straight marriages end in divorce.
You have valuable input?
:0
Correction: “I’m disputing the argument…”
#53 -
Like I said, red herring. Thanks for making it explicit this time, though. No one’s talking about banning abortion here. I responded to Sonagi re cutting funding for international “family planning” programs.
And yes, that’s PRI. They’re pro-life. What’s your point? They do solid research and they document their claims. Unless you can show the contrary, labeling them as “right wing” in order to dismiss their arguments a priori is just typical leftist intellectual dishonesty.
Correction 2:
“I believe that saying we should “leave marriage to people who actually revere it” is totally…”
“What’s your point?”
They do research? Ironically, they had to go far out of the US to find a few isolated cases that support their political agenda. Sorry to break it to you, but abuses in other countries should not affect American medical policies.
Nor should American anti-abortionists have the right to impose their own political/religious ideology abroad, for that matter.
Nor should American and European pro-aborts have the right to impose their own political/religious ideology abroad. But through the IPPF and UN Population Fund, that’s exactly what they’re doing. Give it up, pal.
Someguy, take a deep breath. Think. You’re not making sense.
Sorry to break it to you, but abuses in other countries should not affect American medical policies.
And no one’s arguing that they should. Take a deep breath, calm down, think, and read the thread again. What I AM arguing is that these abuses should affect American policy regarding funding the organizations responsible for the abuses.
See, now you pull out the scare tactics. Pro-abortion? Nobody is pro-abortion. They are talking about protecting the rights to a medical procedure, that’s all.
“And no one’s arguing that they should. ”
And yet you link to an article about something that took place in…where was it…Africa?
“What I AM arguing is that these abuses should affect American policy regarding funding the organizations responsible for the abuses.”
No, what you are arguing is that they should remove funding from groups who support women’s rights to an abortion. You’re simply using this isolated case as a pretext to make your point.
there is a tremendous cop-out in the political and scientific community when it comes to AIDS.
AIDS is acquired most commonly by intravenous drug use and irresponsible sex.
They try to make it look like as if these people were just sitting around, and got AIDS.
Abstinence policy worked somewhat, because it primarily educated people to be more wise and careful, because this is a REAL disease that comes AFTER you have sex with someone that is NOT your wife. Or even an friend. Or even an acquaintance. Most likely a one-timer.
What’s so wrong about telling people about how this disease is exactly acquired and what you should do to minimize your chances of getting it?
If I were in charge, Abstinence lecture, condom (if you gotta do what you gotta do), then drugs to treat whatever happenned (got the diesase).
stop making out AIDS as if it’s not a STD. Talk about it the same way with all other stds, PLEASE.
Thank you Marmot’s Hole for allowing my comments. I will try to not say much.
#65,
From a Judeo-Christian point of view, that makes sense…but reality isn’t as simple.
Research has found that kids who sign those ‘abstinence contracts’ in the US are just as likely to have sex before marriage than those who haven’t, if not more.
I pull out the scare tactics? You’re the one who twisted the issue and made it about banning abortion in the US rather than defunding international “family planning” groups that engage in coercive and forced abortion and sterilization. And by the way, calling those incidents “isolated” is ridiculous. They’re part and parcel of China’s one-child policy, for example, and the UN Population Fund has been shown to be complicit in that program.
What would you call such groups, anyway? “Pro-choice” doesn’t fit, since they don’t respect the choices of women who don’t want abortion or sterilization. I think “pro-abortion” is generous.
And just so we’re clear, they’re talking about protecting the “right” to a medical procedure that indisputably ends a distinct human life.
Where’s your support for a woman’s right to choose in Red China, Someguy?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09.....ei=5087%0A
I don’t know what’s more pathetic, her for apparently trying to get this sort of attention, or the people who were stupid enough to think that a few LED, a 9V battery and a breadboard could be a bomb.
#67,
“You’re the one who twisted the issue and made it about banning abortion in the US rather than defunding international “family planning” groups that engage in coercive and forced abortion and sterilization.”
I think the rest of your post makes it clear that I’m not the one twisting the facts.
PS. The Chinese one-child policy? Please. If anything, it proves that women should have the right to chose if they want an abortion or not.
And here the hypocrisy of the “pro-choice” crowd shines forth. Women should have the right to choose… whether to use abortion, sterilization, or contraception. But choose to have another child? Pshaw! “Pro-choice” is hardly an accurate term. Pro-abortion and pro-contraception is more like it.
And I think your posts make it clear how much of a pro-abortion extremist you are, and how willing you are to twist facts in support of that ghastly position.
“And here the hypocrisy of the “pro-choice” crowd shines forth. Women should have the right to choose… whether to use abortion, sterilization, or contraception.”
That’s not what I said, is it? Thanks for putting words in my mouth. No, I was saying that the Chinese policy is wrong because it forces women to make a choice that they don’t necessarily want to make. They should have the right to chose without government interference.
“Pro-abortion and pro-contraception is more like it.”
Let me ask you. Are you married? You have sex, right? So, did you conceive every time you had sex? Why not?
“And I think your posts make it clear how much of a pro-abortion extremist you are, and how willing you are to twist facts in support of that ghastly position.”
One problem with that assertion: I’m a dad.
Oh, but I guess I must be twisting that fact, too.
Look, there’s no point in being offensive or overly aggressive. I’m simply looking at the issue in a more pragmatic manner, whereas you seem to be attached to a theological argument. There’s no way either of us will sway the other since we are arguing about two different things.
Any group condoning forced abortion should not only lose their funding but be taken out and have their asses kicked.
Any group that believes that abstinance is the only answer should be shipped to Mars. Even in areas where sex will kill 50% of the time and people know it, people still get together. It’s unrealistic to put it euphemistically.
Why not a hybrid. We promote abstinance but have a program in place for those, not a small number, who are in need of other assistance.
And for all you men out there who are vehemently pro-life, your arguments are extremely self-serving. If every time you had sex you concieved, you would still only understand fractionally the psychological dilemmas women have to go through. You would still have the option to abandon the situation which many men do. You still wouldn’t understand at all the physical commitment. Yes, I know, “It’s my baby too.” What exactly was your sacrifice beyond what you were more than willing to contribute? When you have a fetus implanted, take it to term and then give birth we can talk. Until then it should be, one dick, no vote. Just be as supportive as you can and, of course, let the woman do all the hard work.
Birth controll, all types, are fallible or have crazy scary side-effects. Believe me, I have three sisters, six nieces, and a wife. No brothers, no nephews. Once again, abstinance is good but does not nearly cover all. My situation now is that we want a child but have already lost one at three months into term. They basically had to abort it because it’s heart stopped. The scraping was perhaps a catalyst for the growth that later appeared. After months of laser and chemo she was better. Then they detected an ovarian cyst, I believe a direct result of the birth control we were using. Like I said, we want a child but I don’t think my wife is healthy enough and she couldn’t take another failure. Korean condoms are horrible. We are trying abstinance, just until she gets better. She is very irritable. Me too.
As far as gays having no cultures or religions that sanction them getting together, you cite that as a reason to keep them from getting married? You are saying that because society and religious institutions as a whole, outside of a short period in good old Greece, have treated gays like crap that we should continue to marginalize them? Tell that to gays. “Excuse me. Sorry, but we have always treated you like sub-humans. The only reason I can think of to continue is, you know, tradition.” A wonderful layering, don’t you think?
Whoaah, guys, it’s a five-day weekend, and we need this thread to last us a while. How about something fun?
I know, let’s mock stupid email addresses of salarymen. In front of me, I have two real life biz cards:
bluetit@companyx.co.kr
gaydog@companyz.co.kr
Can anyone beat that? (Sorry, that’s all I got. I’m really not all that fun).
Also, Postsecret has a good selection this week. Check them out.
http://postsecret.blogspot.com/
I don’t think they were married even in Greece. The movement now is all about gaining the privileges of marriage and sticking it up the butt of Republicans. That’s really all they are interested. I dare to offer Life Partner rights and ban marriage and see how that pans out.
US Hispanics on low income don’t seem to behave the same way as US whites on high income.
US whites on high income commonly abort for non-medical reasons. Me and my boyfriend are still in school, I just started my job, my boyfriend or husband isn’t ready for a kid yet, we need more money before our first child comes, the place we’re renting is too small for 3, etc, etc.
That’s the true evil I see in abortion. Adults who choose to do it because it’s convenient.
US Hispanics seem to go ahead with the birth under the same or similar circumstances. They have like 3 to 5 kids, from observation.
Anyway, then this leads to your scare about US Hispanics and European Muslims outnumbering you in respective continents.
Well, stop douching. Especially for non-medical reasons for either the Mom nor the Child, non life or death situations.
Any abortion that has a medical reason, I support and grant that right to whoever is carrying that baby.
God will judge that woman, not me.
On the topic of the China one-child policy, I apologize for misunderstanding you. But please understand how I came to that misunderstanding. I argued in support of the US government’s policy of defunding the UN Population Fund based on its complicity in coercive and forcible abortions and sterilizations in China. You attacked that position. What was I supposed to think?
As for the rest of your post, you can clearly be pro-abortion without practicing it. And calling pro-life arguments “theological” is just a convenient dodge. The fact that abortion ends a distinct human life is science, not theology. Embryology textbooks are unanimous on the fact that a new human life begins at conception. The debates on when human life begins are entirely predicated on philosophy and theology, not science. The science is clear. So, if “looking at the issue in a more pragmatic manner” means finding it expedient to kill innocent human life in certain circumstances, then I guess being “attached to a theological argument” isn’t so bad.
And since you asked: a woman isn’t fertile 100% of the time, is she? That’s a pretty simple explanation why sex doesn’t always lead to conception.
Maddlew, you’re pretty much on the mark except where you denounce pro-life men for being self-serving. In point of fact, it’s the exact opposite. By giving the father absolutely no say in abortion decisions, the law completely and totally absolves men of their responsibility for sex. They can fuck with utter impunity: “hey, if she doesn’t want a kid, she can get an abortion. It’s her choice.“
“And since you asked: a woman isn’t fertile 100% of the time, is she? That’s a pretty simple explanation why sex doesn’t always lead to conception.”
Yes, and ironically, the calendar method is a form of contraception.
“As for the rest of your post, you can clearly be pro-abortion without practicing it. And calling pro-life arguments “theological” is just a convenient dodge.”
See, there you do it again. Pro-abortion, pro-life. Supporting a women’s right to abortion doesn’t make one ‘pro-abortion’–it’s not the choice for me, for example, nor is being anti-abortion necessarily pro-life. How many supposed ‘pro-lifers’ support the death penalty?
“And calling pro-life arguments “theological” is just a convenient dodge. The fact that abortion ends a distinct human life is science, not theology. Embryology textbooks are unanimous on the fact that a new human life begins at conception. The debates on when human life begins are entirely predicated on philosophy and theology, not science. The science is clear.”
Dude, you really screwed up there. I just happen to have a degree in biological science. The argument that life begins when an embryo is created is a theological one. Because some scientists hold to that theological argument, there is no consensus among biologists that an embryo is any more alive than an unfertilized egg or a sperm since none of them are capable of self-sustained life, nor do they possess fully developed nervous systems. So, yeah, embryology textbook most certainly are not unanimously saying that live begins at conception. Nice try with trying to get that ‘pro-life’ canard passed me, though.
I just love all these experts on ancient Greece, ummmnnn . . . all the Greek city states discriminated against homosexuals in varying degrees. For example, although they did not refer to an older man who takes one young male lover to be gay, however, they did censor men who took several male lovers at the same time and also those who attempted to seduce young schoolboys. Any man who did not not fufill his civic duty of raising a son was very frowned upon. Men who did not impart their civic knowledge by rufusing a younger lover was considered strange or even unmanly.
“And calling pro-life arguments “theological” is just a convenient dodge. The fact that abortion ends a distinct human life is science, not theology. Embryology textbooks are unanimous on the fact that a new human life begins at conception. The debates on when human life begins are entirely predicated on philosophy and theology, not science. The science is clear.”
Actually, know it is not. It is still debated. Most medical practitioners will refer to an abortion clinic based on the fact that they believe it is not a life until it is self suporting. Say 23 weeks. Also is the idea that until a being has a conception of continuing life it can not lose it. The muslim idea of ensoulment (don’t quote me) is after second trimester. Chrisitian’s of the every sperm is sacred credo believe in ensoulment at conception.
#79,
I don’t know…Any evidence that boning the apprentice was more common than not?
Yes, it’s her choice. But any woman who is willing to go through it more than once, and I know there are those that do, are in the midst of a horror movie where they are gored repeatedly. It is not simple, it is not painless and it is not without numerous complications. It is it’s own pro-life advertisement.
There is no black and white here. Banning abortion will not eliminate abortion or make fathers more responsible or more compassionate. Allowing abortion doesn’t crystillize the ordeal for men either. But it is just plain wrong for men to continue to controll women’s reproductive health. The majority of men neither empathize or even sympothize and they are, for the most part, the ones who are the most vehement.
I didn’t say a woman was fertile 100% of the time. I was trying to give a hypothetical situation that begins to allow men to understand the turmoil women have to go through. But, once again, it doesn’t encompass it at all. Men would still be able to divorce themselves from the situation.
As far as scientific life, sperm is alive even before it reaches the egg. Your definitions of life do not sway me. I will still go by what the woman says is her belief and her need. If men have the time between waxing their genitalia to imagine the woman’s situation, hopefully things will change.
Correction…
“Some scientists hold to the theological argument while others argue that an embryo is any more alive than an unfertilized egg or a sperm since none of them are capable of self-sustained life, nor do they possess fully developed nervous systems. Consequently, there is no consensus among biologists as to when human life begins.”
Okay Sumo, strike that. No society or religion in the history of man has ever treated gays as anything but subhuman.
There, the tradition of treating them like shit becomes more compelling.
oh, and mjw i know a gay couple that flew overseas to be married and have been in a mature relationship for a decade and would like not only the benefits of marriage but also the social aknowledgement of it being a legitamate relationship, symbols are very important to some people.
What apprentices? Greek culture was a slave culture and yes it happened quite often and buggery was common enough to be included in every day bucolic poetry. The real question would be the social rules in raping or buggering someone else’s property. Basically, if a slave trespassed onto your property then you could do whatever without apparent retribution.
Hmm… From a purely scientific point of view, human life starts at conception - however, that conclusion does not carry any ethical impact. After all, in a “purely scientific” point of view, human beings are just a group of mammals.
When discussing ambiguous stuff like human dignity or value of human life… you’re right. It’s purely philosophical and religious issue.
Since I haven’t heard about this before… what is UN Population Fund and how did it coerce abortion? The only case similar to that I’ve heard about is Norplant, where some racist pundits advocated enforced implantation of Norplant for inner-city families (they, of course, used uh.. more offensive words to describe their targets).
“And since you asked: a woman isn’t fertile 100% of the time, is she? That’s a pretty simple explanation why sex doesn’t always lead to conception.”
That really doesn’t answer why birth rate isn’t ridiculously high. Normal sex life without contraception statistically leads to about 5~8 childbirth within a woman’s lifespan - it has been scientifically determined that such frequency of pregnancy is extremely detrimental to the person’s health. Abortion is detrimental to health too, but not as much as pregnancy… and contraception is absolutely needed (married or not) unless we as a society think that it is acceptable for women to die in age range 40~55.
Dodge, dodge, dodge.
Does a human embryo possess a complete human genome? Yes. Is that genome distinct from that of the mother? Yes. Can a human embryo ever develop into anything other than a human infant? No. Ergo, what comes into existence at conception is a new human life, QED.
Arguing about whether that life is self-sustaining is just rationalizing the killing of the embryo or fetus. For that matter, show me a newborn who is capable of self-sustained life. By that logic, infanticide is morally permissible too. The pure science, prior to the addition of ideological cant, shows that the human embryo can only be a new human being. Nothing else.
I’m an atheist, but I think the Golden Rule works fine for the old abortion issue.
I wouldn’t have minded getting aborted as a mindless fetus.
So spaketh UT Videam. Now all you women quit Dodging his thrusting argument and get busy bearing children. He has narrowed your definition of yourselves to the correct order. If you don’t want children, Don’t Have Sex. It’s that simple.
Wow! Centuries of debate and suddenly it all comes clear.
Oh and men, continue doing what you always have.
“After all, in a “purely scientific” point of view, human beings are just a group of mammals.”
Yes, certainly. However, due to some ironic twists and turns of evolution we developed the ability to create thought and as a result we came up with the concepts of ethics, religion, and morality.
What a way to spend a Sunday.
# 74
You want FUN? Here I come to save the day! How about them CUBBIES?
#84,
So that’s what they meant when they say that Thomas Jefferson was inspired by Greek principles of democracy when he wrote the American Constitution.
(Sorry, I couldn’t resist).
Those arguing that opposition to abortion stems from a “theological argument” are dodging the issue, as Ut videam rightly suggests. Opposition to abortion can just as easily stem from scientific and medical arguments, as these words from The Hippocratic Oath, which doctors upheld until the free-wheeling 1970s, indicate:
I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give a woman a pessary to produce abortion.
But heck, if we’re ready to throw out our Judeo-Christian heritage why not throw out our Greco-Roman heritage as well and start over at Year Zero.
#63 - You said:
“Nobody is pro-abortion. They are talking about protecting the rights to a medical procedure, that’s all.”
What disingenousness! If you’re in favor of the “medical procedure” known as abortion, then you’re pro-abortion.
Personally, I’m opposed to the death penalty and preemptive war. However, I’ve never seen anyone in the opposing camp argue that he is against capital punishment or preemptive war, but supports the State’s right to resort to them when necessary.