Attention, hophead English teachers — your scams might seem clever, but Korean officialdom really isn’t that stupid.
Some Friendly Advice from Brendon Carr
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{ 157 comments… read them below or add one }
Carr does it again. Sage legal advice for free. I’m just disappointed he doesn’t address the real issue…
…how does one smuggle mass quantities of contraband into Korea… aside from the usual, slightly uncomfortable, slightly erotic method?
How does one smuggle masses of illicit substances into Korea? Why put it on a North Korean freighter, of course!
If you can smuggle “mass” quantities by the usual, slightly uncomfortable, slightly erotic method,you should be in the circus or gay porn – or you’ve spent time in Dannemora.
Brendon Carr,
Ingratiate yourself. You old “Seabee”.
Runways on Atolls,
Fred
P.S. – Civilized behavior doesn’t mean shit to a tree.
So, in the very unlikely event that a malicious person sends you a package of drugs in the mail, you’ll be royally screwed because you won’t be able to find a lawyer willing to take your case. Nice!
…not to say that 99.99% of the guys who receives drugs in the mail aren’t guilty.
Someguy,
What’s your address?
Richardson,
What’s your address?
Seriously, this would really be the way to screw someone over, just send them some marijuana through the mail. Imagine if they were living somewhere with really severe penalties, like Malaysia – mandatory death sentence – now there’s an extortion opportunity for you.
How is this situation dealt with in the States? Also, I wonder if Korean recipients of drug packages with incorrect names would also be presumed guilty or given equal sentences. Or if it’s a matter of Koreans concluding that the chances of a similarly named foreigner living at the same address are slim to none. I guess these guys have to spend a few years in jail – how long are the penalties in Korea?
Penalty depends on quantity. Most people who are caught importing small amounts of marijuana to Korea for personal use get put on trial (held in jail for two or three months pending trial), sentenced to one or two years’ imprisonment, which sentence is suspended by the judge. In that case they are scooped up by Immigration and deported back to Canada, where it’s impossible to re-offend in Korea because they’re banned from re-entry. But be sure to check Dave’s ESL — I’m sure there’s a scam around the immigration ban as well. Maybe changing your name and getting a new passport in that name? I’ve heard that one about half a dozen times.
But every once in a while — it happens more than you would think — one of these characters gets himself a judge who is not in the mood to suspend the sentence, and then the hophead is in a bit of a pickle. Now he needs an appeal, but unlike Chung Mong-koo, “the economy” will go on quite well without another pot-smoking Canuck, and that means the appeal will not automatically result in a reduced sentence.
#1: “Sage legal advice for free.”
Really? “Don’t do drugs in Korea.” You’re right, it is indeed free.
#9 — “How is this situation dealt with in the States?”
I’m not a lawyer, but if you mean “sending contraband substances through the mail”, I’m pretty sure that makes it a federal rap and would therefore draw the attention of US postal inspectors.
Not necessary to get your pot and probably the last thing you would want to bring down on yourself, if you’re in a “medical marijuana” state like here in California where only the US attorney might be looking to prosecute cases involving relatively minor amounts of pot (ones that didn’t also involving driving or safety issues on the job).
“the economy” will go on quite well without another pot-smoking Canuck,
Never an American, then?
Gratuitous and a little petty there, Brendon. You’d think a citizen of the country where rampant recreational drug abuse was practically invented might feel embarrassed about making snide swipes on the subject to those of other countries.
My cold, black lawyer’s heart drove me to make those remarks about my B.C. buds. But the fact is most of the lying stoners who ring me up begging for assistance have been Canadian.
I’d guess, off the top of my head, that 80% of the English teachers here are Canadian. The rest is statistics in action…
May I offer my own free and friendly advice to the dumb pucks thinking that what’s OK in BC (or wherever) is OK here : Think over the risk/reward ratio and DON’T. Go buy some soju or hit yourself in the head with a hammer if your need for altered consciousness is so great.
But unfortunately, “It won’t happen to me. I’m SPECIAL” type-thinking runs rampant in males under 30…
“…You’d think a citizen of the country where rampant recreational drug abuse was practically invented might feel embarrassed about making snide swipes on the subject to those of other countries.”
Good job of getting in a snide swipe of your own, old bean. I think the Oscar for “inventing rampant recreational drug abuse” should go to the British empire, for the Opium war right over there in your neck of the woods.
However, I have to admit I had the same thought after reading #10. Surely the Americanski drug cowboys aren’t getting slack on us?
You didn’t specifiy the mailing origins of the packages, Brendan, perhaps that would help to clarify. Have the cases of which you have personal knowledge all concerned packages mailed to Korea from Canada?
That’s an attitude [dude] I’ve seen in Korean males of all ages, too…
Recently read a book called Brother Cell One, by Cullen Thomas. 3 1/2 years in Korean prisons as a result of picking up a package at the PO in Seoul addressed to a different name. A fine read.
I’m quite charmed by seeing, for the first time in quite a while, “hophead” used as disparaging label… Very much a “my Dad” thang… Yer showin’ your cranky age again, Brendon…
#7
Yeah, true about the feelings of specialness, but I was alluding to foolhardy and dumbass risk-taking. In my experience 20ish Korean guys seem a little less prone to that, to their credit. Probably because their folks keep them on a tighter leash, (my university age brother-in-law was just refused permission to buy a ‘crotch-rocket’ motorbike by his folks, for instance, guaranteeing him both less fun and a 0% probability of winding up in the emergency room at 3 am impaled on a handlebar) but whatever the cause the end result is arguably better for them.
What can I say, Dave? I’m a traditionalist.
I meant, #17
get drunk. ya wannna smoke weed? go flippas
“…the Oscar for “inventing rampant recreational drug abuse” should go to the British empire,”
In your face North America, it a small victory but the Empire will rise again!!
Seriously though, How do these people think they can get away with it?
I am assuming the ones getting caught for drugs are teaching here legally, in which case how the hell did they manage to get a degree?
Say what you will about snide comments but the simple fact is Canada sends an awful lot of its worst citizens over here. Every frat-boy, unemployable jackass and unmarriable, overweight, beer-swilling strumpet seem to wind up here.
But I blame the folly of Korea’s education system and Korean Immigration for giving every two-bit, hockey-playing dirty hippie with a U. of Khao San Road basket-weaving degree an E2 visa.
I got my best marks while smoking weed. My whole third year of university was spent smoking and studying… it’s amazing how pot can help you forget about your crazy ex and convince yourself that studying is fun… I didn’t smoke a lot though, barely half the size of a cigarette… anyways, “study high, get high grades” was true for me…
Hmmm, I got an idea. If the cops always suspect the Canadian, I better address the name on the package to “Kim Yong Pil” or something… Buhahaha I’m a criminal mastermind.
I’m neither a legal scholar nor a pothead, but I’m curious about the details here. Maybe Mr. Carr would be kind enough to explain.
–> It’s obvious from Mr. Carr’s warning that mail-ordering potheads are getting busted, but once they are found out by the police, exactly how does the court find them guilty? I mean, assuming the package’s address label is not from their handwriting or from a country that their passport shows they’ve recently visited (or any other damning link)… it seems like there is no solid evidence. They can easily make a claim ignorance and that they can’t get in trouble for having an address. Is there some law that is getting twisted here, or is the Korean “justice” “system” just not too big the “innocent until proven guilty” concept?
(They’ve certainly got the “Innocent until not proven chaebol chairman” concept down.)
B. Carr is Anti-Teacher/Employee
Let’s face it Carr, you don’t really deserve to be on the American Embassy list of Attorneys. Even if you had a real victim in your terms you would and have denied them of a defense and/or counter-lawsuit. You did it with me, so I know you don’t care about the English Teacher simply because you price us out of our service range.
Yes that’s right, you quoted me $40,000 to represent me for a small time case. Without you I battled the ordeal myself and somehow received a somewhat favorable Judgement in the Korean court. When Carr first quoted me via e-mail, he stated $5,000. When I went to his office and spoke to him personally he said $40,000
Sounds as if he would have dragged the case on as long as possible with the intention to suck me dry, $5,000 increments until he received $40,000
You told me…”I don’t represent employees, only employers.” Those kind of words don’t deserve you the right to be on the American Embassy list of Attorneys and you know it!
@26 Were your highest grades C’s? Had to ask…
Amazing everybody blames the Canucks… while the Canadians I meet are often uneducated alcoholics or dorks with poor degrees, the Americans are often culturally-insensitive sex-fiends or religious wackos… It takes all kinds.
Oh I was a D or C average student, suffering from depression… got nearly straight A’s on pot… my lowest was a B.
“But every once in a while — it happens more than you would think — one of these characters gets himself a judge who is not in the mood to suspend the sentence, and then the hophead is in a bit of a pickle. Now he needs an appeal, but unlike Chung Mong-koo, “the economy” will go on quite well without another pot-smoking Canuck, and that means the appeal will not automatically result in a reduced sentence.”
- might it be possible that this is a result of some english speaking lawyers in korea quoting their services in prices that are far out of reach of the average foreigner? hence, when “another pot smoking canuck” whether guilty or not, is unable to get quality legal representation, and is faced with a legal system that treats foreigners unfairly?
“uneducated alcoholics or dorks with poor degrees”
…because we all know that Canadian universities couldn’t possibly be any good when compared to American universities. (note the sarcasm)
@27 — The answer is pretty simple: The package has your address but not your name. Why would you accept a package not addressed to you?
#28
Can’t agree with you. Working people (even those with a cold, black lawyer’s heart
) have a right to set the price on their work, just as you have a right to pass on that price.
Korean students of English who desperately want 1-1 English with a teacher, as perhaps you are, might think that you ‘don’t care about them’ as proven by you ‘pricing yourself out of their reach’ with prices like 50,000won per hour, but will that make you give them English at 10,000won per hour? I doubt it.
As for deserving to be on the list, I hesitate to speak for Mr. Carr but… I’d guess it is as much a pain as any sort of profit or privilege to be on it.
Glad to hear you partially won your case – so he did you a favor by not taking even $5000 buck from you, then!
bipolar, what was your major of study?
#28,
Well, even if he had felt unnecessarily generous with his rates (he had no obligation to take your case, you know), he would have still had to answer to his boss…and it seems clear that his boss wants to deal with companies, not individuals (not to mention that his rates are probably set by the firm).
“ipolar, what was your major of study?”
I doubt it was Physical Education…unless he could specialize in snowboarding at his university.
But, let’s be honest: B. Carr is anti-English teacher. He is also anti-hagwon owner, anti-drug user, anti-soju-breath, anti-Democrat, anti-socialist, anti-robber baron, anti-Korean, and anti-Canadian. He likes money but dislikes working too much for that money. So, you see, the reason B. Carr stays away from hagwon disputes is that he has no one to root for.
And yes, being on the Embassy list is a royal pain in the ass. The vast majority (like 99.99%) of people who call from that list are complete wastes of space.
# 35
Yes, but we all shouldn’t have the right to be on the American Embassy list of whatever. Thus, the Embassy allows him to waste the time of English Teachers/Employees.
He doesn’t represent employees in labor disputes, yet he is/was listed as a ‘Labor Attorney.’ At the least there should be an asterisk * by his name.
The following Attorney *Brendon Carr* doesn’t represent employees.
” B. Carr is anti-English teacher. He is also anti-hagwon owner, anti-drug user, anti-soju-breath, anti-Democrat, anti-socialist, anti-robber baron, anti-Korean, and anti-Canadian. He likes money but dislikes working too much for that money. ”
I just had a terrifyingly real vision of Brendon clinking a toast with The Simpsons’ Mr. Burns, Nelson & thugs
“Gentlemen, to evil!”
Listen, folks, I think we’re talking about pot or hash, not (crack) cocaine or heroin or crystal meth or anything terrible like that (and there IS a difference, unless you’re one of those myopic sheep blindly believing the shit governments shovel constantly about ALL “drugs” being bad).
And though these morons are breaking the law, some of you are acting as if you’ve never done anything illegal in your life, either here in Korea or elsewhere. I know that smoking pot is a more serious offense here than in, say, Canada, but that doesn’t mean that the law against smoking pot isn’t necessarily hyperbolic and hypocritical nonsense. There’s a reason it’s been considered to be medicinal in cultures the world over for centuries, including here in Korea, more especially here in gangwon province, the Korean home of mary-jane growing, where it’s not looked upon (privately) as disparagingly as it is elsewhere on the peninsula.
So, try to stem your moral and hypocritical outrage about drugs or doing anything illegal here in Korea.
Anyway, you guys are so busy disparaging fat-ass canuck-gooks, culturally-insensitive miguk-gooks, pot-smoking hopheads, and overcharging liars, er, lawyers, that you’re missing the real point(s):
What’s happening to all the pot the authorities are confiscating? Who gets it? Is there a government auction, like for repossessed cars, houses, and the like? If so, and one buys through these channels, is it considered illegal?
Now that is information worth being overcharged for!
MJ is not a panacea, like you claim it to be.
The only drug form of it being used is this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dronabinol
But, MJ users say this drug is not enough. Let me smoke the joint, they say.
Probably so.
I never did illegal drugs. Only tried the legal ones and not addicted to any.
No MJ would not kill me.
Fact, is MJ is now like an important commodity to you, like seasonal fruit.
You gotta have it, every once in a while.
But, it’s illegal in many countries.
Now, you’re in trouble, when you get caught.
Not totally harmless to YOU in the grand scheme of things.
I think it’s irresponsible to promote MJ as a panacea.
*sigh*
First of all, the word “panacea” never passed through the lips of my keyboard.
And, second of all, you are one of the “myopic sheep” to whom I was…
Oh, never mind. It’s like trying to explain the English alphabet to a one-pound note wrapped around a shit-stuffed sock in a rubbish bin…
There’s one thing I’ve learned from all the fuss over this topic over the many years I’ve been working in Korea, and posting at the Marmot’s Hole: There are a whole lot of jackasses who think it’s their God-given right to demand that someone else (me and my colleagues) donate money from our pockets to clean up a mess the jackasses could have avoided themselves. Get over yourselves.
There’s a shortage of English-speaking professionals. If you want English-language services, you have to pay for them. The market sets the rate.
If you don’t want to pay the market rate for English-language services, there are a number of excellent — and mediocre, and terrible, so you have many choices — Korean-speaking attorneys who defend foreign criminals. There is also a free public defender who will be assigned to give you 40 minutes of his or her time (they have to defend 80 criminals per month, for a salary of W4,000,000). This public defender won’t speak English and 40 minutes isn’t enough time to give a crap about you, but hey — it’s free! The court also has a free interpreter available for you. The interpreter doesn’t speak English either. Be sure to blame me for that.
The Simpsons joke was an homage!
B. Carr needs to quit whining about all the English Teachers that call him. If he really doesn’t like them calling him, he would take himself off the American Embassy list of Attorneys or put an asterisk by his name stating that he doesn’t represent English Teachers/Employees.
# 39 B. Carr
Better yet, why don’t you tell everyone through the USA Embassy list of Attorneys just how you feel about those you mentioned?
Simply place the following information on the list…
“B. Carr is anti-English teacher. He is also anti-hagwon owner, anti-drug user, anti-soju-breath, anti-Democrat, anti-socialist, anti-robber baron, anti-Korean, and anti-Canadian. He likes money but dislikes working too much for that money. So, you see, the reason B. Carr stays away from hagwon disputes is that he has no one to root for.
And yes, being on the Embassy list is a royal pain in the ass. The vast majority (like 99.99%) of people who call from that list are complete wastes of space.”
Okay B. Carr, I’ll give you a week. If you don’t at least put an asterisk my your name, then just quit your whining about the phone calls!
You must think I maintain that list. I don’t.
Looks like a job opportunity for Lionel Hutz (RIP Phil Hartman): lawyer to the greatly wronged ESL crowd. He’d get plenty of business, but he’d probably have to keep his shoe repair business to survive.
dissidentdave, I’m not myopic. I’m simply not addicted and chain bound to hash.
I would have no problem with prescribing amphetamines, dronabinol, or opioids as medicinally indicated.
You guys say legalize it, but it’s usually not just hash that you want legalized. Even in countries that legalize it, there is some control and restrictions of use. What you really want, is the right to smoke it anywhere, preferabbly without current restrictions on cigarette use in public.
Be honest, man.
You guys cry about oil and blood, and war.
Have you ever thought about how your $ spent on hash and other drugs affect other people in society?
Do you buy hash, and therefore fund criminal activity?
Yes, you do.
Do drug dealers kill people?
Why, … Yes ! Hash, blood, and war.
Drug using Liberals fund druglords and perpetuate misery in many parts of the world.
You might say your drug use in North America is keeping South America alive. I’d have to think about that one. Druglords are better than good, old-fashioned industry on the economy?
You say you grow your own super potency pot. Ok. Do you realize how much electricity is being wasted just so you can get high? Comes from oil. How do you justify that use of oil? You’re no different from a gas guzzler driver. Total waste of earth’s resources.
Again, people who have never used pot, probably won’t even NEED it.
This thread is high comedy.
Yeah, esp when you know that in real life Brendon is a mensch and nice guy; he just plays a hardass on the net ’cause it amuses him to do so (my theory).
Been on friendly terms with him for six years or so, have never needed his Services — being careful and respectful-of-the-spirits to ensure that I never do…
“The only drug form of it being used is this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dronabinol
But, MJ users say this drug is not enough. Let me smoke the joint, they say.”
No and no.
Other drugs have been developed…and there’s this:
http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/organic.html
It’s been known for a long time as offering for its ability to offer pain relief to those who suffer from arthritis. In fact, old Chinese texts list marijuana as ‘undoing rheumatism’. Specific hybrids have been grown specifically to heighten the plant’s anti-inflammatory properties.
Medicinal marijuana aren’t ‘druggies’. That’s conservative propaganda. It’s tantamount to saying that every codeine user is a cokehead like George W. Bush used to be.
This thread would be better suited over at Dave’s ESL Cafe…feel the love.
“Yeah, esp when you know that in real life Brendon is a mensch and nice guy; he just plays a hardass on the net ’cause it amuses him to do so (my theory).”
I also think he gets a kick out of pushing people’s buttons…maybe to see how far he can get away with playing the stereotypical shark of a lawyer. Were he a true a-hole, he wouldn’t bother giving out free legal advice on his blog.
“This thread would be better suited over at Dave’s ESL Cafe…feel the love.”
Gosh, were talking about pot while Nomad is on ecstasy.
If pot smoking were tolerated in Korea, worker productivity would fall well below OECD averages, drivers would become sloppy and unattentive, young women would turn to prostitution while young men wasted their days playing computer games, garbage would pile up around telephone poles, the integrity and academic credentials of public figures would slump, business leaders would turn to embezzlement and violent crime, public policy would be captured by radical fringe groups, journalists would be lazy and unethical and often just make stuff up …. the horror!
People rationalizing that they should be able to smoke dope in Korea for X, Y, and Z reasons reminds me of illegal immigrants claiming a right to be in the U.S.
It’s ILLEGAL! If you get caught, STFU and take your licks.
Richardson++
# 49
” I don’t maintain the site ”
Are you powerless?
Why must you tell me what I must think? Why would I think you maintain that site?
Aren’t you going to contact the Embassy and ask them to edit your advertisement? Please do, so that you don’t waste the time of English Teachers/Employees!
I would say that you are somewhat responsible for the information concerning yourself on the American Embassy list of Attorneys. What astounds me is why you would enter into such an agreement? You should have written up a contract with the Embassy granting yourself some rights to maintain the website.
You stated something like… “Boo, hoo there must be some website out there directing English Teacher to me etc…”
Again, at the least I would like to see an asterisk by your name stating you don’t represent employees in labor disputes. Or else, STOP WHINING about the phone calls you get!
I agree with Richardson totally. A friend of mine said that smoking pot in Korea is simply inconsiderate… How would you feel if a guest in your home took a piss on your sofa?
36: As for getting high marks while high, it’s pretty easy as an English major. It’s amazing how immersed you can get in reading Chaucer or writing a thesis on Postmodernism while stoned. Of course, a quick review while sober is absolutely needed, due to the usual brain malfunctions that happen…
33: I guess you lack information (I’m from Canada) and it just seems most of the Canadian English teachers I’ve met here are music history or quantum philosophy majors…
#60,
Actually, quite a few Koreans are for the legalization of marijuana. They remember the real reason why it was made illegal in the 70’s.
“33: I guess you lack information (I’m from Canada) and it just seems most of the Canadian English teachers I’ve met here are music history or quantum philosophy majors…”
Lack information about Canadian universities? 1) I was being sarcastic, 2) I’m Canadian.
Besides, I know far too many Canadians who were actively sought by American universities to think that a Canadian degree isn’t as valuable as an American one. Heck, I even met the first African-American woman to become the student representative on the board of directors of Harvard U (or something like that)… She’s actually Canadian.
And that reason was?
I would think that, the crime being possession, simply being, you know, in possession of the goods would be pretty conclusive proof of the crime. The challenge then comes down to you proving that the drugs weren’t actually yours by doing stuff like calling the police as soon as you open the package, pissing clear on a drug test soon after being arrested, and not having any suspiciously large amounts of money laying around your abode. But I don’t know much about Korea police procedure…. do they generally give you enough time to either smoke a bowl and prove your guilt, or do what the law says you should and immediately report the ‘mix-up’?
dissidentdave, I’m not myopic. I’m simply not addicted and chain bound to hash.
I would have no problem with prescribing amphetamines, dronabinol, or opioids as medicinally indicated.
You guys say legalize it, but it’s usually not just hash that you want legalized. Even in countries that legalize it, there is some control and restrictions of use. What you really want, is the right to smoke it anywhere, preferabbly without current restrictions on cigarette use in public.
Be honest, man.
You guys cry about oil and blood, and war.
Have you ever thought about how your $ spent on hash and other drugs affect other people in society?
Do you buy hash, and therefore fund criminal activity?
Yes, you do.
Do drug dealers kill people?
Why, … Yes ! Hash, blood, and war.
Drug using Liberals fund druglords and perpetuate misery in many parts of the world.
You might say your drug use in North America is keeping South America alive. I’d have to think about that one. Druglords are better than good, old-fashioned industry on the economy?
You say you grow your own super potency pot. Ok. Do you realize how much electricity is being wasted just so you can get high? Comes from oil. How do you justify that use of oil? You’re no different from a gas guzzler driver. Total waste of earth’s resources.
Again, people who have never used pot, probably won’t even NEED it.
someguyinKorea, it appears you are providing a link to using the real stuff, herbal marijuana, which is ILLEGAL in many, many, many countries. Instead of linking to other drugs produced for safe usage, to be purchased at a pharmacy with a doctor’s prescription.
All mind altering medications, except alcohol, are regulated in quantity and dosage. This is pretty much a rule throughout the world. MJ should be of no exception. Self medication is not in the best interests of patients or society. I’m not gonna step up to the plate for alcohol. A popular choice for self medication. You can buy as much as you want, unless you’re in a sports stadium, but there are ways to get around that, too. I only drink to get that good feeling, and feel no need to drink anymore. Others literally drink until they lose their minds. Why society allows this, in light of social problems resulting from it, I don’t know.
And westeners, don’t try to have it both ways. While slamming Chinese East Asian herbal medicine as a placebo as a whole, you have clearly tried to legitimize MJ by citing speculative usage in East Asian herbal medicine in the past. If you want to say that, admit that Chinese Herbal medicine IS medicine. There is medicine in there. It’s not concentrated and specific like a western medicine pill, but it was never meant to be.
Your hash habit causes poverty, funds criminals, promotes crimes, and keeps 3rd world countries as 3rd world countries. Stop wasting oil and electricity to grow a non-essential crop.
my other long list won’t get approved for some reason.
I’d just like to say that you be honest with yourself. Bush got codeine because he was ill at some point.
Do you have a real medical illness that requires you to use the active ingredients in MJ?
Or, do you simply seek to use it for pleasure?
sucks for you.
57 slim: brilliant, thanks for the laugh.
I do find it curious that the attitude of our self-declared “Libertarians” is that if the gvmt sez it’s against the law, for whatever weak reason or no reason — we should just STFU and obey the law, make no protest, make no struggle for aquittals, raise no questions. Big Brother is always right on His regulation of our personal pleasures, eh?
Potential clients wanting to accept Mr. Carr’s advice to do a bit of their own comparison shopping might have a look at The Korean Law Blog, and decide which lawyer’s tone more appeals to them as prospective employers of the attorneys’ friendly services. The Sept 6 post begins thusly:
Dear Professor Sean Hayes: I have been charged with the consumption and possession of drugs. I am being held at a detention center south of Seoul. I was arrested in Itaewon and tested positive for THC (marijuana). My home was searched and they found marijuana in my house.
http://ahnse.blogspot.com/
I don’t believe that non-Korean licensed attorneys can represent criminal defendants in Korean courts and looking at Hayes’ blog, I can’t help but wonder where the line is crossed when advising on Korean law without being a licensed Korean attorney.
Not my field, but it’s obvious that while they can’t technically “be your lawyer” in court, the foreign lawyers and paralegals (or whatever) employed by Korean law offices still charge for providing legal services. Both blogs are in effect free legal services, aren’t they?
my comment that is on some kind of hold or blocked out states it, but here goes,
except for alcohol, it is pretty much universal law that mind altering drugs are regulated in quantity and dosage.
Self medication is not in the best interests of the patient or society as a whole.
MJ should be of no exception. And, I’m not gonna defend alcohol at all. For some reason, you can buy as much as money allows and drink as much as you can.
The vast majority of these legalize it movements are aimed for MJ usage not in the medical sense (which is already being done with concentrated, factory produced medicine, with doctor’s prescriptions), but for quite frankly, getting high.
I’m probably repeating myself, but your drug habit funds criminal activities and wastes valuable electricity and resources for a non essential crop.
I do not know what the rules in Korea are, but the general rule in U.S. states is that lawyers from other countries (working in the U.S.) can only provide legal advice concerning the laws of the foreign jurisdictions where they are admitted.
“It’s illegal! It’s illegal! Therefore, you simply mustn’t do it!”
For myself, no victim = no crime. I’ll give a passing thought to crazy Americanan worshippers of laws — any and all laws without exceptions — the next time I get together with my illegal immigrant buddies to burn one. But that passing thought will be the same one I always have, “Why can’t they just live and let live?”
There’s plenty of victims in selling drugs, trafficking drugs, using drugs.
Libs. Take note.
Drugs. Wars. Ruined dreams, ruined careers, babies with defects, wrong choices, wrong decisions, waste of energy.
I do find it curious that the attitude of our self-declared “Libertarians” is that if the gvmt sez it’s against the law, for whatever weak reason or no reason — we should just STFU and obey the law, make no protest, make no struggle for acquittals, raise no questions. Big Brother is always right on His regulation of our personal pleasures, eh?
If you’re a Korean then fine, sanshinseon. Fight the power, etc.
If you’re not a citizen and therefore a guest in this country, then yes, STFU and obey their laws or fucking leave. To paraphrase someone above, if you’re a guest in someone’s home where they tell you you can’t smoke up, and you do, you’re not a romantic freedom fighter – you’re an asshole who should be grabbed by the back of the neck and kicked in the ass out the door.
Capeche?
Korea lacks the infrastructure for a good stoner experience.
#79 – Glass shops?
And drugs being illegal helps tackle these problems how, exactly?
If anything, don’t draconian drugs laws actually exacerbate all these problems you cite?
Be honest, man.
It’s not a draconian law. All drugs that alter mental functions should be regulated in dosage and quantity. That’s a universal trend in almost all countries. The only exception is alcohol. Like I said, I’m not gonna defend that one. People shouldn’t be able to drink all they want. For personal and public safety, these drugs are best not self medicated.
MJ has no place for a healthy person.
If anything, it probably makes you obese.
If you were shooting for goombah style, you missed. Next time say Capisci?
Once in a while I find myself in agreement with wjk, like here. Always a pleasure…
If you want draconian laws, go to Malaysia, Thailand or Singapore.
I’m not a wop, so I don’t care about the correct spelling.
It’s not your country, dda. Therein lies the key point. Koreans have emphatically decided they don’t want pot here. We’re guests in the country. I don’t want Draconian laws, in fact I wish Korea was as relaxed as Canada about it and I could smoke up here all the time. It would make much more sense for me to tell you ‘If you want relaxed laws, go to Canada or the Netherlands.’
But until Korean society changes its attitude about pot, I’ll respect (in the sense of follow) how they wish to run the place while I’m here. If I or anyone else doesn’t like it, there is a remarkably comprehensive bus service to Incheon airport from most neighborhoods in Seoul.
wjk, I think a lot of things can be inserted in place of Drugs, like Soju:
Soju. Wars. Ruined dreams, ruined careers, babies with defects, wrong choices, wrong decisions, waste of energy.
I don’t want more relaxed laws, I loathe Holland [and while my opinion of Canada is not that high, I've never been there, so I'll wait and see...], and indeed, since it’s not my country — as was reminded to me every day, sometimes several times a day, during the 12 years I lived there, I won’t lobby for stricter laws; but I can applaud when the po-lice enforces their laws [which, after all, is not all too often...].
Women. Wars. Ruined dreams, ruined careers,
babies with defects, wrong choices, wrong decisions, waste of energy.Religion. Wars. Ruined dreams, ruined careers, babies with defects, wrong choices, wrong decisions, waste of energy.
Masturbation. Wars. Ruined dreams, ruined careers, babies with defects, wrong choices, wrong decisions, waste of energy.
‘B. Carr is anti-English teacher…’
Brendon, does this explain why the request in my reply to your email went unanswered?
Don’t get me wrong; I wasn’t meaning to imply that laws banning marijuana in Korea are draconian. And, yes, I too think that as guests in Korea, we foreigners are obliged to follow the laws of the land, or leave.
My point is that all these ills you attribute to drugs are more accurately blamed on self-defeating prohibition laws. If drugs were legal and regulated, there would be no need for the vast criminal networks that control most of Afghanistan and large swathes of South America, and otherwise harmless people wouldn’t be going to jail for the victimless crime of smoking marijuana.
So, let me ask you again, don’t draconian drug laws (where they exist) actually exacerbate all the problems you cite?
When the laws are really draconian — in spirit and in their application — like in Singapore, the problems go away very fast…
Hugh,
Your statement:
“Koreans have emphatically decided they don’t want pot here.”
implies some kind of unanimous group decision. Given that you have spoken on behalf of all Korean citizens, I shall take the liberty of speaking on behalf of only those several Korean citizens I have smoked marijuana with: They beg to differ.
In order to make your statement true, you would have to change it to read “some Koreans” or possibly “a majority of Koreans.”
It would be interesting indeed to conduct a survey — with guaranteed anonymity — asking Korean citizens: “Should marijuana be legalized and regulated in a manner similar to alcohol?” I think you might be surprised at the number of people who would answer yes. It could turn out to be a set of people similar to what it would be in North America — those who realize the folly of prohibition.
Hugh, being a legal foreign resident in a nation has very little comparability to being a guest in someone’s home, not at all the same.
Capisci?
One might also argue there’s a difference between being against the criminalization of pot and lobbying my local lawmaker to change the laws, and being against the criminalization of pot and ignoring existing laws to illegally smoke it.
I have tried to convince the several local (California) lawmakers I have smoked marijuana with to get the laws changed. Most of them are doing what they can–albeit very subtly. In the few cases where these illegally smoking lawmakers have taken a strong stand against prohibition and in favor of legalization, they have soon ceased to be lawmakers.
#92 -
Let’s be clear here. Are you advocating the legalization of heroin and cocaine as well as marijuana? Because the “vast criminal networks” you reference here have nothing to do with ganja.
As for the “the victimless crime of smoking marijuana,” I suspect that the parents of countless basement-dwelling pot-smoking losers might take exception to that characterization.
All kidding aside, the survivors of car accidents caused by driving under the influence of marijuana—and the grieving families of those who didn’t survive such accidents—might object even more strongly. But then again, the same could be said of the victimless non-crime of drinking alcohol.
Despite my personal distaste for marijuana and its devotees, given the alternatives:
- criminalized, with inconsistent and ineffective enforcement (the status quo);
- criminalized with draconian penalties and enforcement (for a comparatively minor matter); or
- decriminalized and regulated as necessary for health and safety, a la alcohol;
I’ll take option the third.
To answer your question, Ut videam, yes, I do support legalizing all drugs, for the simple reason that prohibition has achieved the exact opposite of what it set out to do. In most parts of most Western countries, drugs are now more plentiful, cheaper and more potent than ever before. A neat side effect of this has been endemic corruption and rampant organized crime in the likes of Columbia and Afghanistan. And as an added bonus, tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people have been thrown in jail for youthful indiscretions (let’s not mention George Bush and the cocaine allegations) and turned into real criminals.
Though I don’t take any drugs now, I have done in the past. I don’t condone their use, but I do think that grown adults should be free to harm themselves in any way they wish. Of course, if someone drives under the influence of marijuana, coke, booze or anything else, that’s an entirely different matter.
kpmsprtd,
#94
Koreans have collectively said they don’t want pot here by electing folks who are against legalizing it over and over again. Since these decisions are arrived at collectively by the Korean people and binding to all members of Korean society (including guests), I don’t see any need to add “some” or “a majority” to the statement that they don’t want pot.
A group decision in a democratic society does not have to be unanimous. The people have spoken, Korea doesn’t want pot.
BTW, from what you wrote in #97, it seems that the people of California are not to happy with pot either.
BTW, as far as my personal views on legalizing pot, I just don’t have a dog in that fight.
It would be interesting indeed to conduct a survey — with guaranteed anonymity — asking Korean citizens: “Should
marijuana be legalized and regulated in a manner similar to alcoholforeigners be prevented from marrying Korean women?” I think you might be surprised at the number of people who would answer yes.#67,#68,
Some herbal medicine, regardless of whether it is Chinese or not, does indeed work… only some. Most of it is just bunk, though.
Marijuana is one of the herbal medicines that have been clinically proven to help in the treatment of certain illnesses. Don’t believe it, look it up yourself.
Bush was a cokehead at one point in his life, regardless of whether he took codeine for medical reasons or not.
Do I have an illness that can be treated with marijuana? I don’t see how that matters, but yes, I do.
#82,
“All drugs that alter mental functions should be regulated in dosage and quantity. ”
Oh, okay… So, how long do you figure it will take to have riots if the Korean government made the use and possession of tobacco, alcohol and caffeine illegal as of now?
Hugh,
Marijuana was made illegal by Park Jung Hee, so obviously Koreans weren’t consulted about whether they wanted marijuana to become prohibited or not. Quite a few Koreans actually smoked it back then. Park made it illegal because he wanted to suppress the growing influence that western culture had on Korean society, in other words, he wanted to arrest people he felt were a threat to his authority, namely rock musicians and folk singers who refused to write songs praising the dictatorship. As a result, many popular entertainers were arrested in 1975 during the 대마초 파동. They were prevented from performing until Chun Doo Hwan lifted the ban in 1979. By then, the strategy had worked. Koreans weren’t interested in rebellious music anymore. The musicians were no longer seen has being a threat to the dictatorship.
http://english.kbs.co.kr/socie.....11774.html
A few mistakes, but the most obvious one… the growing influence of western culture on Korean society
Sanshinseon,
As I’m the only commenter with “STFU” in my comment above yours, I’ll assume your comment (#69) was directed at me.
First, I’m not a Libertarian, self-declared or otherwise.
Second, if you break the law and smoke/smuggle dope in Korea, then yes, STFU. And go to jail. Not my country, and unless you’re naturalized, it’s not yours either.
Try to start a social movement or lobby the appropriate lawmakers to change the existing law in whatever legal way you can, but if someone breaks it as it is they shouldn’t complain when they have to face the consequences.
As I mentioned illegal immigration in my earlier comment, I’ll add that the same principle applies; citizens (and legal immigrants who will eventually) have a say via votes have a say in U.S. laws; illegal are invited to STFU and get out.
A rationalizing case in point.
I’m not fond of many of Korea’s backwards laws (e.g., cost sharing in auto accidents even when one isn’t at fault, though that’s not in the same realm, or for example those on student visas being unable to work part-time jobs, etc.), but instead of trying to rationalize why I can or should be able to do X anyway, I just a) don’t do it in Korea, b) don’t live in Korea, or c) don’t complain if I do knowingly break a law in Korea and get into trouble b/c of it. Responsibility.
- – - – - – -
On “victimless” crimes (#92):
See; http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html
When you’re ready to permanently give up any and all publicly funded health care services and allow private medical plans to exclude any and all illness caused by the effects, I’d consider it.
It’s real similiar to being a guest in someone’s home, san, but since we’re not going to persuade each other I’m dropping it here.
@ slim, #58. Bravo your life!
Since it ain’t pot what’s their excuse?
Can’t chalk all that up to soju, can we?
I definitely feel like I am in the minority here….but I think MJ should continue to be illegal. I have read enough about the early usage of opium in Korea (yes, it was a problem – despite what Koreans claim), and while MJ may not be on the same level – it does have its negative effects on society. Do the other legal drugs (vices) such as alcohol and cigarettes have an effect on society? Sure they do – but unfortunately I am not wise enough or strong enough (I do love a good cold beer) to make a comment on how to address them.
Me too! It’s called “Sunday Afternoon”… It has fairly intermittent symptoms, but nothing alleviates them in quite the same way.
ONLY USERS LOSE DRUGS
I take a libertarian stance on soft recreational drugs, but in Korea’s case there are so many other areas of tariffs, trade and competition policy and business laws that cry out for relaxation — we are talking about an OECD country with a thriving black market trade in meat, shampoo, vitamins — that making life easier for “hopheads” would not make my top 100 wishlist if I lived in Korea. How about opening up the beer market so more international microbrews are available, like they are even in small cities in Japan?
111 comments so far…
Most be a lot of pot smokers in the expat community.
Anyways, I heard that if you get caught, you should do admit fault, but do whatever you can to say that it’s all for personal use, no matter how much pot you got caught with. Got that from Cullen Thomas’ book.
This document, http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html , says marijuana is illicit in USA. I’m sick of Koran entertainers saying on air “In USA marijuana is ok; I smoked it.”.
Since nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege, where and how can I check out USA law concerned with illegality of marijuana?
As for Korean law, go http://www.klaw.go.kr .
You’ll find at what condition you’ll be deported.
“….How about opening up the beer market so more international microbrews are available, like they are even in small cities in Japan?”
Now there’s a cause that I can rally behind. How many US combat brigades do we need to surge to Korea to bring victory? No sacrifice is too great if it serves to bring blessed relief to thirsty sufferers who can have nothing set before them except warm rice wine.
The campaign should start with a rousing firing squad execution of those feckless Korean AAFES employees, broadcast live on all networks.
You know, the ones who were diverting to the black market the expired lots of “skunky” AAFES beer. They sold out for personal profit instead of carrying out their sacred duty of total destruction.
Afterwards, they should be hung by their heels in the public square, like what happened to Mussolini and his mistress.
@dot squiggle asterisk:
There are no national laws regarding marijuana possession and consumption. Each state has its own laws. This webpage has a clickable map showing the legal status of marijuana in each of the fifty states:
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516
Given the inherently fucked-up and frustrating nature of the Korean experience, marijuana is practically useless in terms of escapism.
If you’re unfortunate enough to find yourself within Korean borders in the first place, you should be focusing on the psychotropics to help you escape the Sparkle. My “friend” would personally recommend shrooms, as they can present a reality far more palatable than the Hub is capable of delivering.
A million dwarves burrowing through your skin with corkscrews will seem like a picnic compared to a million perm-headed ajumma hip-checking you through the streets of Seoul.
In addition, shrooms are easily purchased on any street corner in Tokyo*, and even more easily** smuggled back into Korea in a simple baggie under the sac***.
*Or at least were back when my “friend” was there in 2001.
**Must be white and preferably wearing a suit to facilitate easy customs bypass, as extensive experience has shown that the Korean brain cannot comprehend a white guy in a suit doing anything illegal.****
***May induce involuntary blueness of the balls.
****On the flip side, that same mind cannot comprehend a brown man doing anything legal, so those of you who fall into that category may want to utilize the extra 4-5 inches of space and shove those shrooms straight up the poofta.
Au contraire, the Federal Controlled Substances Act classifies cannabis as a Schedule I drug and defines it as a drug “with no accepted medical value in treatment.” Despite its “long history of use as a medication” as alleged by proponents of “medical marijuana”, cannabis is classified as a “new drug” and legal access is only possible through an Investigational New Drug Application (IND) issued by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
In Gonzales v. Raich (2205), the Supreme Court effectively ruled that federal law preempts attempted regulation state regulation, such as the medical marijuana laws, under the tried and true rationale regarding the scope of federal authority under the so-called commerce clause of the Constitution. Arguably, possessing and using very small amounts obtained from a state-sponsored and supervised “research facility” – and the provision by such facility of cannablis to “patients” could be interpreted to fall outside the scope of the decision because they do not constitute “commerce”. The Feds are known not to agree with such interpretation. In any case, if you’re caught growing the stuff yourself or traveling across state lines with it, as the crazy Irishman said to William Wallace, you’re focked. 1 key gets you a mandatory 6-12 months rooming with Bubba, 100 gives you a mandatory 5 years and as much as 6,5 years of Bubba loving, and a 1000 lets Bubba make you his bitch for a mandatory 10 and up to 12.5 total. No matter what your age when you go in, you will be wearing Depends when you get out.
“When the laws are really draconian — in spirit and in their application — like in Singapore, the problems go away very fast…”
So you wouldn’t hear about white folks getting caught for smoking pots in Singapore? How about Hong Kong?
Sonagi,
Sprwer beat me to it;
http://www.aclu.org/scotus/200.....50606.html
someguyinkorea, spoken like a Canadian.
Someguy, why don’t we just give everyone amphetamines?
Legalize it. We’ll cut down those crystal meth labs, right?
What you clearly don’t understand is that mind altering drugs need strict govt regulations for the sake of the individual and the public.
You bring up caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco.
I’d agree with you only on alcohol.
Can you tell me with a straight face that a person who consumed caffeine and tobacco products as maximally as physiologically possible thru legally marketed consumer products can get in a car and cause something remotely similar to a man who drank alcohol as much as he humanly possibly could?
Like I said, I’m not gonna defend alcohol.
The question is, how much mind altering does caffeine and tobacco achieve relative to MJ and alcohol?
Exactly my point.
Can you compose music like the Beatles if you consumed caffeine and tobacco?
No, you need something stronger.
MJ, LSD.
And there are regulations on tobacco and alcohol in place, quite universally.
You ever heard of the legal age for buying dam bae and soju?
Or beer and cigs in the states?
How about the never ending mark up for cigs?
See, my point cannot be disproven.
Universally, nearly all mind altering drugs are regulated. And they should be.
Robert sagely pointed out:
> One might also argue there’s a difference between being against
> the criminalization of pot and lobbying my local lawmaker to
> change the laws, and being against the criminalization of pot
> and ignoring existing laws to illegally smoke it.
But actually there are three possibilities there — one can be against the absurd criminalization of it without either actually using it or “lobbying my local lawmaker” towards legalization (i know a few pols, but Korea is nowhere close to sanity on this issue, so it’d be a waste) — i myself fit that profile.
On issues such as this i stand (and vote when given the chance) on the side of Human Liberty, Choice and Responsibility. Some of our posters above stand on Big Brother’s side, want Strong Government to make those decisions for themselves and theirs… well, such it always is…
First off, Carr is correct in suggesting that we follow the laws of the land when living abroad, whether we happen to agree or not. We chose to come here after all. Just as you can’t legally drink alcohol in Saudi Arabia, you can’t legally smoke marijuana in Korea.
As for whether the law makes sense – hard to say, but maybe a better law could be designed.
WJK – as for mind altering, you’d agree wouldn’t you, that there is a continuum along which drugs can be placed according to how much they alter perception, and how addictive they are – basically how potentially dangerous or destructive they can be. So, marijuana would not be equivalent to LSD or cocaine. Alcohol is legal even though it’s addictive, tobacco even though it’s unhealthy, because some people enjoy consuming it. How potentially destructive is marijuana? One of my friends from high school smoked regularly – he graduated from Pomona, graduated from Stanford Law School, and is now an attorney for Microsoft. On the other hand, I also now a man in his 60s, who people say was once a real overachiever, started smoking marijuana and ended up painting houses for 30 years. He’s still a decent guy and certainly contributes to society. Somehow he lost his drive, but it’s his choice, isn’t it?
Marijuana doesnt’ seem to drive people to commit violent crime or commit suicide the way other drugs do. Legal restrictions should probably depend on how potentially damaging the drug is.
And Andy Jackson in #100 — come now, you can’t possibly be that clueless — no such thing could even remotely be claimed — the making of a few selected recreational substances illegal while letting others be legal has never been voted on in Korea, has never been even a minor issue in any election. It was imposed by fiat of a military dictatorship, and maintained ever since with nearly no dissent permitted. The Korean public has never been presented with the medical facts about various recreational psycho-active substances, generally haven’t any idea of the differences in addictablity between what let’s call “B Clinton’s favorite” and “GW Bush’s favorite” (no, i don’t mean white-trash-pussy and war). Hysteria against the few selected recreational substances has been kept up by the same media that demonizes “foreigners”, for largely the same motivations. The Korean people have never “spoken” on this issue; they have never once been offered a voice on it.
sanshin, you only advocate it because you were or are a user of it at some point in life. Like I said, people who have never been in touch with THC would probably not ask for it, even in a medical setting. And
And, they leave absolutely pefectly productive and healthy lives, DOKDOFOREVER !
Fact it, it’s not an essential part of life.
Maybe a doctor would find it appropriate and prescribe it. I’m fine with that. But, the legalize it now movement is not aimed towards that. No one’s gonna pucker up to every 30 days doctor visits to get THC. It’s probably not enough THC to get you to feel what Jim Morrisson felt when he was writing music.
sanshin, you’re a hypocrite. Korean people never voted for the terms Lt. Okamoto signed with Japan. How dare you criticize Koreans when they raise hell against Japan? And use the same logic to defend a drug, an illegal drug at that, of all things?
dokdoforever, essentially the US govt decided that there is no need to sit back and see which percentage of the population will be set back from what they could have been due to a stupid drug that has no illegal or medicinal or any use in other countries, where people do just fine without the damn drug.
what you are referring to is the concept behind the Controlled Substance Act in the USA and similar acts in other countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....tances_Act
I think they have it right, quite frankly, I think they do.
Ironically, medical MJ is already being offered if your medical condition calls for it.
But revealingly, the vast majority of people don’t qualify for it, and the vast majority are not interested in that at all. They just want another method to get high. That’s all, folks.
That’s the point wjk. The people who have never been in touch with it are the ones insisting that it shouldn’t be legalized, both here and in the States.
Astronomers have recently found a huge area of nothing. No stars, no black holes, nothing.
From a perspective of nothing people come to us as if they are experts and legislate from the point of view of pure ignorance.
Marijuana is not dangerous for the most part. Certainly not as dangerous as alcohol. People tend to care less about material gain and feel less inclined to believe that in any given circumstance they are on a more important escapade than those around them. They do think and dream and imagine like you wouldn’t believe.
I don’t use over here because the cost of a slip up is just too high. When I was moving furniture I almost had to use. When we’d be going up a set of switch back stairs with a hide-a-bed and my partner would shove me into the stucco wall raking my back, instead of going to the other end of the sofa and kicking his ass I’d just laugh and say, “Stop pushing, dude, that hurts”.
Come to think of it, it shouldn’t just be legal here it should be mandatory. When some psychotic ajumma is straight-arming you in the subway you should stop her, hand her a joint, and say, “It’s the law!”
I love mid-September. The weather is nice, and it’s the harvest season.
I suppose a commenter can be forgiven for condescending, scornful and generally insulting comments and characterizations regarding all those users of illicit substances out there whose crimes against others consist primarily of violating the law. Maybe its just me, but I’d be a lot more comfortable if I didn’t know that, as one of a limited number of English native speaker barristers in a position to accept fees from those same individuals for “defending” them when offenders are, almost inevitably, systematically rounded up in groups by the Korean authorities. It should be added that, to retain counsel for “defense” in such cases, you and/or your loved ones will shell out 7 grand for that service, initially.
It would also be good, and in the interest of (dare I use these Fox/O’Reilly-tarnished words) fair and balanced commentary, such a practitioner should warn each one of those hapless captured hopheads, past and yet-to-be, who support whatever bad habits said attorneys may themselves be concealing (yes, I’ve known quite a few lawyers), that defendants should take special pains when engaging legal services for their defense, to ascertain whether said attorney may also be representing others caught up in the same dragnet as they. The reason being the possible circumstance (let’s call it a “fleece bargain”) where the best “defence” goes to the defendant whose side have the deepest pockets, sometimes to the detriment of others in the bag.
In the US, this is called conflict of interest and potential penalties up to and including disbarment preclude most conscientious barristers from such cross-representation.
It can, however, happen in Korea. Don’t let it happen to you
#132:
“I suppose a commenter can be forgiven for condescending, scornful and generally insulting comments…as one of a limited number of English native speaker barristers….dare I use these Fox/O’Reilly-tarnished words…”
Fee fi fo fum, I sense the elegant disdain of an Englishman (or is “barrister” the standard Canadian word as well?)
A little too much use of the passive voice and legalese; also complicated sentence structure, though your closing sentences were admirably straightforward. Remember, you’ve got ESL folks trying to read here for comprehension, though I’d like to think that such as these won’t be doubly handicapped by also being dopers in need of basic legal advice.
As a Fox/O’Reilly watching American, believe me when I say I feel all the shame my situation merits. I do catch the 1/2 hour of the BBC each night though; perhaps that will suffice to lower any slightly raised eyebrows out there.
I admit I do feel a certain admiration for the way the Beeb manages to also convey an oh-so-subtle distaste for a certan segment of Americans.
I meant #128 by Rockchuck.
Don’t know what happened; maybe it was too much Fox. I solemnly affirm it wasn’t caused by dope-smoking.
To answer my own question:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrister
“A barrister is a lawyer found in many common law jurisdictions which employ a split profession (as opposed to a fused profession) in relation to legal representation. In split professions, the other type of lawyer is the solicitor….”
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B....._in_Canada
“…In Canada (except Quebec), the professions of barrister and solicitor are fused, and many lawyers refer to themselves with both names, even if they do not practice in both areas…”
3) And there are sections in the wiki article on Australia and Ireland too. So I guess I shouldn’t have presumed your nationality, rockchuck, on such thin evidence.
Indeed, your choice of “handle” could well indicate a mean Aussie rugby player. Case dismissed!
112,
I don’t smoke. Smoking is a sign of weakness.
120,
“Someguy, why don’t we just give everyone amphetamines?”
And risk pissing off South Korean gangs and North Korean agents? No thank you.
“What you clearly don’t understand is that mind altering drugs need strict govt regulations for the sake of the individual and the public.”
What you don’t understand is that by making it legal, or at least decriminalizing it, will make it somewhat less interesting to most people, and therefore usage will drop. Just look at what has happened to countries that have passed more liberal laws on the use and possession of marijuana.
“legally marketed consumer products ”
Well, it’s illegal to advertise tobacco products in Canada.
“Can you compose music like the Beatles if you consumed caffeine and tobacco?
No, you need something stronger.
MJ, LSD.”
Now, you know that’s not true.
What do you make of Frank Zappa? The only drugs he ever used were caffeine and cigarettes. Besides, whatever the Beatles wrote later one in their career as a group was a reflection of the times and a natural product of their growth as musicians and song writers.
someguy, Canada is a huge exporter of MJ to the US.
someguy, Beatles were major users of performance enhancing drugs. Read this.
It’s not proof, but it’s what I can get you. It’s pretty darn convincing and hard to argue against.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=nfl
I personally don’t care much if a musician took performance enhancing drugs or not, if the music suits me well.
I say, sing. Sing, Liberal, Sing.
Whether or not you were using drugs to enhance your performance, that matter is spilled kimchee.
But, I’m not gonna say you did it all without some help.
#133,
Quoting ESPN on the topic of music? Right. Without the reading that whole article, I’d bet it’s trying to justify the use of steroids in pro-baseball. Am I right? The use of drugs by some artists doesn’t enhance their performance like anabolic steroids does to ball players. Sure, drug use by artists may heighten creativity , but it is not a substitute for real talent (you can feed an unimaginative moron all the drugs you want, he’ll still be a dullard…But, put a marginally good ball player on steroids and next thing you know he’s breaking home run records). I think you really put too much emphasis on how drugs will shape the creative process and the end product.
Naked Lunch? Have you read the original manuscript? I’m sure it was a mess, which would explain why the American edition (revised by Allan Ginsberg) and the British one are different. Jack Kerouac’s original manuscript, “The Roll”, reads nothing like the published book. I’ve read some of the parts that have been published. It’s like reading a French language novel written with English words…In fact, Kerouac began writing On the Road in Joual (a dialect of Quebec French). He has also said that the only stimulant he was on was coffee. Obviously some reworking was done, ostensibly by an editor who knew nothing little about the French language or Kerouac’s intent of highlighting his protagonists ‘Frenchness’ (and possibly using it to express a certain feeling of alienation). The novel follows traditional romantics themes, so it’s obvious that he put time and effort into writing that book. So, that pretty kills the argument that he wouldn’t have been able to write that book if it wasn’t for hallucinogenic drugs.
someguy, you’re really a true Canadian. How would you be able to comment on baseball, anyway?
You don’t even follow it !
I should have rolled with hockey, for crying out loud !
It’s not trying to defend drug usage in baseball per say. In fact, it starts with American football.
Now, music should be a level playing field. I challenge you to listen to the Beatles albums before and after.
wjk said: “someguy, Canada is a huge exporter of MJ to the US.”
Bwahahaha. There is no bounds to our canuck evil. Koreans are right to fear us among them…
There “are” no bounds….
129
I sense the not so elegant disdain of an american for someone not american who has the cheek to use his own language “unamericanized”
Is it just me or do the some free world conservatives sound an awful lot like islamofascists?
Is it just me or do some free world conservatives sound an awful lot like islamofascists?
Awww man,the system is slow.
“someguy, you’re really a true Canadian. How would you be able to comment on baseball, anyway?”
Dude, one could argue that baseball was first played in Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....f_baseball
In any case, who was the 2006 MLB MVP? How about the 1997 MVP?
How about the 1992 and 1993 World Series?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_World_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Series
And then there’s the Montreal Royals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Royals
I don’t watch baseball…I prefer playing sports to watching them. Plenty of Canadians play baseball…
“over 400,000 players, 62,000 coaches, 11,000 umpires and 13,000 teams nationwide.”
http://www.baseball.ca/eng_new.....NewsID=485
What did you think we do when the ice in the hockey rink melts? Get drunk and wait for the winter?
…No, man. We play baseball and get drunk (while and after).
Oh, and
“It’s not trying to defend drug usage in baseball per say. In fact, it starts with American football.”
Baseball, football…Big difference. It doesn’t change the fact that you quoted an article about steroids in a pro sports to make a point about music. How ridiculous is that?
“Now, music should be a level playing field. I challenge you to listen to the Beatles albums before and after.”
I have, so what’s your point? That they are better albums or worse? Comparing blues influenced pop songs written by young budding musicians with the sophisticated compositions of experienced musicians…Right, that makes sense. Besides, how would you know when it is before and after? Did they write their music while they were high? Which ones? How would you know?
Remember what I said about the albums being products of the times and their growth as musicians and writers? Clearly, suggesting that we should look at these records in terms of their drug use is just plain ludicrous.
Aug. 28, 1964.
You can poo-poo the espn article, but it doesn’t take an expert to make a mere observation.
I quoted a sports article to make a point about what is clearly prevalent in the arts.
MJ is used ubiquitously by musicians to get that extra edge, much like the way amphetamines are used by scholars and students to stay awake, super concentrated in mind, etc.
I don’t think you read the article. He mentions American football, Baseball, A financial analyst on drugs to do his job better, and Novelist getting inspiration after getting high, and the Beatles composing way different post 1964, after using MJ and then harder drugs like LSD.
All are illegal ways to enhance their performances. I, for one, have only used caffeine and I scoff at liberal profs and physicians who say that, “Come on now, we all have used illegal drugs at some point in our careers.” Nope, not me.
Your swipe at baseball while being drunk is ridiculous.
You played softball while drunk. Baseball is a much more dangerous and serious sport.
A way to enhance their performance? Again, you don’t know if the Beatles wrote any of their songs on drugs, and which.
Do you play music? I do, which is why I know that there is no way that you could argue that drugs, including alcohol, would enhance a musicians performance. Good musicians make it look easy, but there is nothing easy about playing music. You simply can’t keep proper time if you aren’t fully alert.
Ever saw Jimmy Hendrix’s drugged out performance at the Isle of Wight? Sure, it’s good because, well, it’s Hendrix. But, when you compare it to his more sober performances, it’s shit. David Crosby, a notorious drug user, even said in an interview that he only did drugs once before a performance. He said something along the lines that you simply can’t give a good performance if you think the fretboard on your guitar is melting.
Mr. Someguyinkorea, I’m not gonna change your mind.
Beatles didn’t have to be drugged on stage. All they had to do was “experiment” around in a recording studio. And revisit that.
Would Bob Dylan or the Beatles make that up?
> David Crosby, a notorious drug user, even said in
> an interview that he only did drugs once before a
> performance. He said something along the lines that
> you simply can’t give a good performance if you
> think the fretboard on your guitar is melting.
Let’s be accurate: he said that specifically & only about LSD. An example of the problems with using the word “drugs” about the various illegal recreational psycho-active substances, as they are so entirely different from each other.
“Beatles didn’t have to be drugged on stage. All they had to do was “experiment” around in a recording studio. And revisit that.”
How about this…Listen to any stoner and you’ll see that you’d have to be stoned yourself to thing that he makes sense. The same goes with musicians. Whether the Beatles used drugs or not doesn’t change the fact that their music is a product of the times and their maturing talent.
#150,
Okay, then. So, you’re telling me that cocaine enhanced David Crosby as an artist? Given the mellow nature of his music, I would find that hard to believe.
Okay, I’ll admit…Robin Williams was more entertaining when he was on coke…but, then again, I was still just a kid when he kicked the habit, so I wouldn’t give too much weight to that assertion.
No, didn’t tell you that at all — re-read. I think it’s well-known (and told in horrifying detail in his book about it) that Croz’s musical artistry went straight downhill when he started on Freebase Coke (and came back after he was clean for a year or so). Pot, OTOH, seemed to serve him well for decades, as with so many musicians.
They are DIFFERENT.
Sanshinseon #123: Come now, you cant possibly be that addle minded from years of recreational drug use (Wow, throwing in random insults DOES make a comment more fun.).
Korea has been democratic for two decades now. If there was a significant portion of the population that thought legalizing it would be a good idea, I promise you that some politician or another call for it.
Then again, perhaps Koreas really are ignorant children who just don’t know which drugs are fun and which are bad (For late comers, no, I that is not my argument.).
South Korea has been very slowly on its way to becoming democratic for two decades now. Many topics are still taboo for honest discussion, the media still manipulate with fear-mongering propaganda. There has not yet been any real information provided to the populace (or even the ruling class) on medical, psychlogical or social-effect facts of currently-illegal recreational psycho-active substances; Koreans remain mostly ignorant on the subject (except for some who’ve lived overseas). The public has never been given any choice on the matter, has made no choice. “Democracy” has had nothing at all to do with it, yet.
I did not “randomly insult” you at all, Andy — you should know by now i don’t do that on-line — and you should not respond with a vicious accusation against me. I meant it quite literally — i’m sure that there is very little possibility that you could be so clueless about how the ROK operates social-politically, and it’s history of such; we all know that you are well-informed about it all. If a K-newbie posted what you did in #100, we would just gently laugh and patiently try to educate him/her. But for you to say that brings a !!! — i know that you know it’s entirely false — legalizing pot has never been an issue in election campaigns here, the issue has never been openly discussed. And you know why…
#139 “…the not so elegant disdain of an american for someone not american who has the cheek to use his own language… “unamericanized””
Not at all. Rockchuck can be as elgantly disdainful as he likes of Fox-watching Americans, once he is practicing law in an ROK free from the imprint of their boots.
With nary a world of complaint from me. It’s a matter of simple esthetics, unlikely though it may seem to you that a Fox-watching American could have such a thing.
#140 — it’s just you.
#155
Ditto on the insult thing. I used the word “can’t,” so no vicious accusation there.
Now that we have established that we are both rather thin-skinned, I will do one better and say that #155 was actually more insulting than #123.
I certainly don’t claim to know everything about every subject (as I assume you would not), so it is possible that there is something I am missing. I am still learning about a lot of things and won’t stop until I am called home.
However, to say that I am being disingenuous (to put it mildly) is another matter all together. Perhaps I should take the “random” out of in front of “insult.”
I think we have now crossed some line about running personal commentary, so I will just say that we disagree on the Korean people’s ability to handle this topic in their democratic system. That is all I will say more on the subject.
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