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Marmot’s Open Thread #18
This entry was written by Robert Koehler, posted on September 8, 2007 at 12:40 pm, filed under Blogging. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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55 Comments
Hostages, summits, North Korea… Screw ‘em… Where’s Marmot’s NFL Preview?
What do people think about Chung Mong-koo getting away with no jail time?
It was obvious from the get-go that he wasn’t going to do any time, but can you believe that in his ruling the judge actually cited the economy as the reason for not putting him behind bars?
I mean, it’s usually the reason, but the judge ACTUALLY SAID IT.
And in lieu of jail time, Chung must give lectures about ethical business practices. LOL! Unbelievable.
Sorry, the Japanese colonial rulers failed to teach Koreans ethical business practices.
> I mean, it’s usually the reason,
> but the judge ACTUALLY SAID IT.
> I mean, it’s usually the reason,
> but the judge ACTUALLY SAID IT.
Korean judges have been openly saying such things in such cases for many years. Ain’t nuthin’ new — and the public usually generally agrees, keeping the economy humming for the theoretical benefit of all is more important than strict punishment for an errant leading businessman. Another difference between East and West for us to ponder…
A criminal background will be an especially useful addition to any Korean leader’s resume once the North and South unite.
Except that a rap sheet will prevent them to visit the US — remember YS’s son being kicked back to Korea at Austin’s International Airport a few years back?
The other day two interesting differences about Korea struck me. Have you ever visited an apartment down in Apkujung-dong? I’d heard how expensive the property is down there, and a couple of days ago I visited an apartment complex in Kangnam which according to Naver 부동산 had an average value of $2.5 million per unit, 4 or 5 times a place north or the river. The funny thing was, it was one of the more dilapidated, run down places I’ve seen in Seoul. Built in the mid 70s, with lots of cracked concrete, one single entrance for hundreds of units, pretty ugly looking, kind of like a Soviet flat, but the parking lot was full of expensive Mercedes and other foreign cars. And, there were plenty of other similar complexes nearby to this one. Evidently, this is the product of laws which regulate where apartments can be constructed in Seoul, which must prohibit making any improvements to existing structures. Korea may be one of the only places where people wanting to invest in the best property in the country are forced to live in some of the country’s most outdated accomodations, which is kind of funny, actually.
Another realization I had was that the Larry Craig scandal, about the Senator caught playing footsie in a Minneapolis restroom, couldn’t happen in Korea. Not because there aren’t gay Koreans, although they’re much less visible, but because Korean stall dividers go all the way to the ground. Why is that? Could it be that Korean restroom designers knew about that kind of activity and intentionally designed the stalls that way to stop it? Maybe it’s because the western toilet is new here, and they used the Japanese-style trough in the floor style before that. In any case, Larry Craig could never try any such shenanigans in Seoul!
I think that was an idea that George Costanza wanted to do at Yankee Stadium. Maybe the watched Seinfeld?
My question is why is there always the “pae-mun” (the one door that is always locked) at every building, school and office in this country? I’ve asked and asked and no one every knows the answer. Don’t they realize the fire hazards?
dokdo, that apartment block is probably up for 재개발, which means that when the construction starts, the owners will be relocated for free for the duration, then get one of the newly built apartments when construction is over. It’s supposedly a good deal.
Dokdo,
You’re right! I never thought about that. I’ll admit that while I was using the squatter toilets in clubs in Seoul, I couldn’t spare the energy or the concentration of throwing a homo flirt. Had I the intention of engaging (insert puke sound here) I’d have surely landed a deuce square in the pants.
Squatter toilets could be the next hot American import from Korea. You could label them as “specifically designed to suppress male on male indecency.”
I need to patent this.
dda, I know what you’re talking about, but this was definitely not a 재개발 area, which are usually poor, undeveloped neighborhoods that are torn down and rebuilt. Old apartments in Apkujungdong like the Hyundai Apts, there must be 50 to 70 buildings, with each individual unit at $3 million or so - there’s more than enough profit incentive to remodel, expand, or rebuild those apartments, the most expensive in the city - yet the buildings are the same as when they were built 35 years ago. It’s a funny system.
Griego,
That’s good, but you’d need to raise public awareness - maybe a campaign with bumper stickers that read, “Squat for Decency,” or “I’m an Upright Squatter”?
dokdoforever, Greenwich village in New York City.
Yes, it’s most likely the Japanese way of stall dividing.
Craig is bisexual. I’m betting $1000 in paypal money.
you’re welcome to deposit into my account. Let me know.
if a Republican does it, he cuts his own neck off.
If a Democrat does it, he says sorry, but stays on his job, claiming the separation of personal and professional life.
ie, Jesse Jackson. A Reverand who uses his title to do politics in the African American community. His secretary bore his daughter. His secretary isn’t his wife. Jesse Jackson said he’s done wrong, but he warned that no one will stop him from doing his precious civil rights work. Fake pastor. Most pastors who get caught doing that disappear from the stage forever. Not Jesse Jackson.
Bill Clinton. Monica Lewinsky. Clinton simply apologized and stayed on his job.
That’s a liberal. That’s a Democrat.
What do they have in common?
People who have no control over their lives, and practice injustice in their personal lives, who have grandiose ideas and humanitarian ideas to benefit mankind.
Ask a Hollywood actor who is in and out of rehab and divorced 5 times with 5 kids, on how to set foreign policy.
I speak the truth.
I think it’s like a sort of way for these people to make up for their personal bad deeds. Doing a public good.
Maybe everyone should do bad things privately so they will become better people publicly.
Twisted thought.
mid 70’s in Kangnam?
Korean soap knobbing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....I&NR=1
Nothing like Newt Gingrich or Strom Thurmond, eh? At least they had the common decency to remain judgmental pricks, even after engaging in their extra-marital activities…
As always, wjk, you’re completely full of shit.
zonath, I think you slipped and put in a Democrat in there…
I think it’s pretty safe to put Thurmond in the Republican camp, seeing as he was a Republican senator for what? 40+ years?
How about Ted Kennedy instead of Strom Thurmond? Since you’re citing members of Congress.
“if a Republican does it, he cuts his own neck off.
If a Democrat does it, he says sorry, but stays on his job, claiming the separation of personal and professional life.”
Neither Democrats nor Republicans have a monopoly on iffy sexual behaviour, wjk, but if you have a shred of honesty, you’ll admit that social conservatives have the market cornered in frothy-mouthed sanctimony and bare-faced hypocrisy when it comes to said sexual shenanigans.
“How about Ted Kennedy instead of Strom Thurmond?”
That you’re having to keep on bringing up Ted Kennedy, whose, admittedly deeply shameful, indiscretions took place almost 40 years ago, as a paragon of Democratic licentiousness is very telling.
it’s more than a double standard.
Hustler magazine will publish a list of Republicans who they have proof on purchasing sex.
They will not even bother to do so for Democrats.
Even Larry Flynt ran as Republican candidate for President of US. He was simply a party switcher with no identity, pursuing his own agenda.
Strom Thurmond did his worst as a Dixiecrat and a Democrat. Politically, professional, and privately. That was when he was able to even have an erection.
Here now, we have Larry Flynt, Osama Bin Laden, and Kim Jong Il wishing the US citizens to vote a Democrat into power.
Well, I wouldn’t be shocked. The vast majority in the public have not made the extra leap to jump from being a liberal to a conservative.
I once did campaign work for a Democrat who got elected.
As I grew wiser and older with the right perspective, I became a Republican. It was clearly the lesser of two evils.
It’s not a double standard at all. The problem isn’t the deed, it’s the hypocrisy. Bill Clinton may have done something morally reprehensible, but I never heard of a case where he was legislating against bjs. Actually, I don’t think Craig should have had to resigned, as that’s going on in his personal life. I don’t think the pressure for him to resign came from his political enemies (and if it did, it wasn’t for the act, but for the hypocrisy), which makes one wonder what kind of “friends” his political allies really are.
It’s a simple matter wjk, these Democrats didn’t run on a platform of family values. They didn’t campaign to win the votes of the extreme right who come out saying that gays are going to hell.
So when Democrats get busted cheating on their wives or trolling restrooms it’s a non-issue. They aren’t being so hypocritical because they weren’t using it as a campaign platform. When a Republican, who has come out in speechs saying he believes gays are living a sordid lifestyle, gets caught playing footsy under a stall he loses credibility. What else has he been espousing which he himself can’t live up to? He has become a political liability. Other Republicans distance themselves from him.
It may be just perception but there has seemed to have been a large number of scandals involving Republican lawmakers recently. You’ll even hear a great many among them admit to this.
No, I’m not going to give you sources. Simply read, it’s there daily. Or better yet, watch the next elections. The voting public gets tired of hollow rhetoric.
@ a-letheia, I offer one better. The 2007 Rugby World Cup is on, and StarSports broadcasts the matches here.
Re Chung Mong-koo, who, except the judges, is buying his argument that Hyundai automotive will collapse without his leadership? If he kicked the bucket that’s the demise of Hyundai? C’mon.
About Apkujung’s Hyundai Apartments: when I first saw them in the late ’80s I thought they were public housing for the poor. They’re even more dilapidated now.
Let’s not get hung up on Thurmond here… He’s just an illustration, and I’m sure we could come up with a dozen or so serving Republican congressmen who’ve had affairs or embezzled money or whatever — all while crying out against ‘immorality’.
I notice you’ve pretty much deflected attention away from Gingrich there… Now, I know he’s only got two kids and three marriages under his belt (so far), but I’m sure this paragon of Republican virtue must make your nipples stiff.
So what? I’m sure there are plenty of terrorists and penny-pot dictators who’re rooting for a Republican victory next year… Are we supposed to run and vote Republican just because someone throws a couple scary names at us? How blindly contrarian.
the Democrats do run on a platform of family values. What do you think Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton is doing?
Why is Hilary Clinton and Barak Obama visiting churches and reaching out to church goers to vote for them?
They think the margin is too tight. Based on the last 2 elections. They can’t just ignore them.
Yet, when they get caught, they brush it off, poo-poo it, and say, that’s my private life.
But, when election year comes, they recite Bible verses.
And, they lose Tennessee when their very own is running for President.
Hustler magazine buys photos of US soldier Jessica Lynch, with intent to publish them when and if she seems like a propaganda tool for Bush. When Lynch proves to be critical of the war, Hustler’s Flynt claims she was a good kid, and there was never intent to publish the photos.
that’s a liberal taking advantage of women for his own agenda.
“What do people think about Chung Mong-koo getting away with no jail time?”
Trying not to think about it. Not that it surprises me, but it is an indicator that some things never change here.
wjk - “Bill Clinton. Monica Lewinsky. Clinton simply apologized and stayed on his job.”
What?! The overall scandal lasted well over a year. Clinton was impeached by the United States Senate. He stayed on the job, but it was hardly a non-event as you seem to suggest.
Regarding the Craig scandal, you write the following.
“If a Democrat does it, he says sorry, but stays on his job, claiming the separation of personal and professional life”
Did former NJ Governor Jim McGreevey (D) keep his job after a gay extramarital affair? Nope.
These scandals happen across the political spectrum - Democrat/Republic, liberal/conseravative, whatever. You can’t accurately generalize about the outcomes of such scandals along either party or ideological lines.
Larry Flynt has his own agenda and certainly most people don’t take his periodical as serious journalism. I find it telling that you would see his work as more than facetious.
Jesse Jackson has paid a price for his indiscretions. He is a hypocrite and he and Al Sharpton will never run as anything more than local.
Hillary and Barack attend churches which are more tolerant and certainly don’t cater to the extreme right. In fact the work these churches do often give support to gays and other marginalized groups. They certainly open their doors to them and don’t tell them they are going straight to hell.
Some chuches preach tolerance and forgiveness. Some politicians speak about tolerance and forgiveness, too. Some politicians say, “I’m a uniter not a divider”, and yet divide is precisely what they do. You might want to read up on that too.
McGreevey actually was an okay governor. I think he made the NJDMV a little better. Beyond the sex scandal, McGreevey stepped down because, essentially he gave the duties of Homeland Security in his state to the guy he was having sex with. No other qualifications. In fact, a foreign citizen. Thank heavens that NJ was not subject to attack.
So, this NJ governor was essentially leaving the land across Manhatten pretty much open for terrorists. How utterly irresponsible !
The most intriguing thing was that the guy he was having sex with denied any sexual relations, claiming he was straight as an arrow.
Jackson and Sharpton can probably win a local govt seat, but they make more money and wield more influence outside of public office, with a national support base which doesn’t care at all if Jackson and Sharpton are profiting off their civil rights work, or sleeping around (Jackson only). But, I agree that neither will win a national seat. Jackson probably will never run for a Presidential primary again (because he slept around). Sharpton will.
I actually think Obama went to some conservative churches and Hilary did too and also the opportunity to pay lip services to the Pope.
Nobody needs to even read Flynt’s publication or respect his journalism. The only item of interest is names on his lists, backed up by paid witnesses. That is enough to cause a voluntary career end to some Republicans, and Flynt enjoys doing that, every election year, it seems.
I’m sure both Clinton and Obama will shake hands and act civilly to Senators whom they ideallogically oppose. These differences don’t mean they have to be uncivil. In fact, both sides are necessary. We need foils to our arguments or there is no argument. The difference lies in the tolerance of those contrary views and behaviors.
The guy in New Jersey could have kept his job for all I care. Hell, Craig could keep his job except for all the speeches he made condemning people just like him.
Oh, and your statement that McGeevey gave his job to the foreigner who he was having sex with left New Jersey open to terrorist attack I don’t quite follow.
If you were to say he was unqualified then it would make sense. Maybe he’s a foreign gay guy who chooses to remain in the closet because he’s seen the ramifications of coming out. Maybe he’s still a whiz at homeland security. Now, if he’s come out on the stump and bashed gays, then pleaded guilty to nancing about in a public toilet, yeah, throw him out.
If a police officer accused you of lascivious activity would you plead guilty and never hire a lawyer? Especially with enough jack to hire a team to defend you. I would procaim my innocence to the very end.
People don’t seem to understand that serving the country in an elected seat is not a right. It’s supposed to be a privelege and an honor. If you come out telling your constituents that they need to behave at a certain moral level that you yourself can’t attain you lose your privelege to serve if the voters see through the facade.
It won’t kill them. They’ll probably do just fine in the private sector. Or maybe not.
Maybe ROH needed some cash for his upcoming meeting with NK Kim, so he goes after another brother of Hyundai family.
Chung pays up over U$800 million and gets out of jail and does not have to commit suicide like his brother!
Time for a shameless plug. Korea Law Blog is really fun today. The Roh government has a bunch of interesting “Back to the Future” concepts: Price controls on boring, Soviet-style apartments, government regulating an “appropriate” profit margin for consumer goods, and of course, the old standby non-punishment of bribing tycoons.
When did the first apartments go up in the “Gangnam” area? Wasn’t Yoido the first place to be developed south of the river? When did building start happening in Chamshil? The #2 line wasn’t completed until 1984.
Which area are you talking about when you say “from the mid 70’s?”
Whether or not a pol sleeps around, gets caught out giving head in a restroom, or whatever, it is astonishing that people will give priority to an issue like this, and have it determine the outcome of elections. It should be priority 1,745,921. Let’s see, Rep. A is against nuking Iran, but once rubbed his johnson against his secretary’s arm. Rep. B is for nuking Iran, but has never been involved in a sex scandal. (Or vice versa, depending on where you stand re Iran.) Hmm… who do i vote for?
#35
We were billeted in the Chamsil 1 dong-gi apartments in 1986, and they seemed old and dingy even then. There were rats and roaches, and were pretty grim otherwise. They had to have been put up well before our arrival.
An interesting story I heard from a Korean friend recently and will pass on:
Apparently, about a year ago, a rich & married women who was having an affair decided to bring her boyfriend to a Kyonggi-do golf course for a game. Apparently, she thought all was safe because her husband was a member of a different course. Anyhow, this women has the phenomenal luck of hitting a hole in one, and a bit of a commotion at the lucky hole ensues, she’s going nuts and shouting for delight, the golf parties ahead and behind hers come over to check it out, etc.
Unfortunately, her freaking husband is on the course that day as a guest of a business partner AND is nearby, AND is one of those who come over to check it out. Finding his wife jumping around and hugging her boyfriend, this cuckold loses his mind and goes after her with a golf club, scoring a few hits to the head before being pulled off. She’s taken to hospital and dies.
Now, the husband is charged with murder by the police, and having murdered his wife by beating her with a golf club in broad daylight in front of witnesses you’d think he’s going to jail. WRONG. In his ruling, the judge let the husband off saying (apologies for the following, I forget the way it went and don’t know enough about golf make it apparent to me) that a) because he killed her with a driver and not an iron OR b) because he killed her with an iron and not a driver (one of those two is right) it showed he didn’t INTEND to kill her, and he’s an upstanding citizen, contributing member of society etc etc.
This ruling was released about a month and a half ago, my friend was commenting on it because it was in the paper that day. If there are any inaccuracies in the above, well I’m passing along a story. I thought it was quite the story, though.
Open question to Brendon Carr:
I know you don’t give free legal advice, but just this once could you tell us:
Is there any way to legally force the Partypooper and the Yangpa to post more often?
Thank you!
# 36 Soondae,
Rep B without a doubt!! Allthough I really would wonder why he/she hadn’t been involded in a sex scandal before.
Actually, there are NO terrorists rooting for the Republicans.
Think about what that means.
There are some dictators who are rooting for the Republicans, but I think they wouldn’t mind either way. ie, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia.
For certain, Osama, Kim Jong Il, and possibly Iran want a Democrat as President.
That means something, too.
NJ governor’s lover was basically just that. Very, very questionable experience or ability in managing New Jersey state Homeland Security. But, he was named to it, because he was his lover. That’s whacky, isn’t it? It was like putting your bedmate on your payroll to keep the person close by. That’s why NJ governor slit his own political throat.
Oh excuse me… I meant of course to say ‘guerilla organizations and insurgent rebels who may use questionable tactics against both military and civilian targets’ rather than ‘terrorists’… I forgot who was holding the keys to that particular definition for a moment. What it means is that the Bush Administration isn’t into labeling its friends as ‘terrorists’. Think about that for a bit.
No… it really doesn’t. After all, they can’t vote. And I’m really so very glad that you’re in contact enough with Osama to know what he wants… Mind cluing the FBI in on his location? Actually, clue me in, and I’ll promise to split the reward with ya.
name that insurgent guerilla group that Bush is funding.
Osama just came out with a new video. I guess you missed it. US Muslims vote. Left wing US Koreans vote. Let’s see…Disgruntled US Iranians vote, although most have bitter pasts with Teheran.
Don’t try too hard.
there is clear irony in the US Muslim who is plotting a terror on US soil, who also makes sure he votes Democrat in a US election. Mind boggling.
Worthy of criticism.
If I was a politician in the US, I wouldn’t worry too much about losing the Muslim terrorist vote. Only politicans seeking office in Londinistan have to fret that.
wjk…. What the holy hell are you talking about? You first — name a single terrorist organization that any prominent Democrat is funding. You’re obviously just blowing a bunch of smoke now, since you’re obviously losing on all the other points. Who really gives a shit whether or not Osama or any other terrorist would vote Democrat or Republican? None of that should inform or influence one whit who anyone actually votes for in the upcoming elections. But again, you’re just pulling another wjk by completely missing the point on that.
You know what, though? Forget it. You can go on making pointless and frankly stupid accusations against Democrats all you like… We’ll just all ignore you like we always do.
WJK, in many ways Bush’s Iraq invasion played right into Osama Ben Laden’s hands, and helped to increase El Quada’s popularity and political power in the Middle East. Osama had claimed prior to 911 that the US sought to dominate the Middle East, supress Islam, etc, when we had been doing nothing of the sort. Invading Iraq proved Osama right to many Arabs, and the power vacuum we created there gave all Osama’s new recruits a place to engage in holy war. Defeating the Taleban was different, a justifiable case of self defense. Going into Iraq just reinforced Osama’s propoganda about America.
A terrorist can just as easily win by goading the enemy into over-aggressive retalliation. Of course, doing nothing is also not an answer. A measured response is most effective, so I’d argue that Osama would actually be best served, and the US least served, by election of a warmongering Republican, like Bush/Cheney, or a pacifist from the far left.
As for those very old, very expensive apartments south of the river, according to naver.com’s real estate site, Hyundai in Apkujung-dong (price $2million to $5 million per unit) and the apts in Chamshil ($1.5 mill/ unit) were built in 1979 and 1978, respectively.
zonath, you’re the one out of ammo.
You’re just leaving with one-liners of wjk this and that.
Fact is, Osama bin Laden is hiding with restriction of $, medical services, and food. That was exactly what he planned, I suppose.
Fact is, US soil has not been attacked since 9-11-01. That is also exactly what Osama had in mind, I suppose.
Leaving Iraq makes Iraq an international war zone between Syria and Iran. Not just with mortars and machine guns. But with tanks, air force, and uniformed soliders.
The United Nations has no incentive to make Bush look pretty.
However, they just released information that the fighters in Afghanistan are mostly foreign.
I’ll bet you that most of the insurgency in Iraq does not support Al Qaeda per say, but they have their own goals supporting their Sunni or Shiite factions with foreign support from Syria and Iran. They have their own ideology differences.
Democrats are saying US should leave Iraq as soon as possible. That worked fantastic with Vietnam. Indeed, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and China had wars here and there and internal purges that resulted in as many people dying there as World War II.
Democrats are helping Al Qaeda by exiting Iraq. Deal with it.
and also add that people in Afghanistan don’t really appreciate Muslim foreigners coming to bomb the whole country here and there.
And you have yet to make a point here. Your point, I suppose, is that a Democratic president would welcome Al-quaeda into New York with a ticker-tape parade and an ice cream cake? Or are you worried that a Democratic president would invade a secular country — justifying that invasion as part of a global war on Islamic extremism — which ultimately served to radicalize the regional populace (but hey, having no government is better than having a dictatorial government, eh?) while completely dropping the ball on actually catching the perpetrators of the worst terrorist attack in US history? I suppose it’s all possible, but I really don’t think anyone is that stupid.
Anyone know who this Jacob Cambria guy is who writes letters to Asia Times Online every other day and who insinuates, despite a body of written evidence, that he better understands North Korea than Dr Lankov, among others, and heaps praise on the nutjob “unofficial DPRK spokesman” Kim Myong-chul?
I just had to post this somewhere:
http://www.latimes.com/news/sc.....;cset=true
Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain
Even in humdrum nonpolitical decisions, liberals and conservatives literally think differently, researchers show.
By Denise Gellene, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 10, 2007