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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;I&#8217;m Not Going to Flushing Because of All the Korean Signs&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  2 Dec 2008 21:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-107399</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-107399</guid>
		<description>Here a very succinct description of the strained relations between the various linguistic communities in Belgium (sorry, link in French only) and their efforts (respectively the lack thereof) to overcome this most akward constellation:

http://regards.ires.ucl.ac.be/Archives/RE042.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here a very succinct description of the strained relations between the various linguistic communities in Belgium (sorry, link in French only) and their efforts (respectively the lack thereof) to overcome this most akward constellation:</p>
<p><a href="http://regards.ires.ucl.ac.be/Archives/RE042.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://regards.ires.ucl.ac.be/Archives/RE042.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106601</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106601</guid>
		<description>Now it is official:

German-French bilingualism which was supposed to be forced onto an entire region in south-western Germany by the over-zealous Ministry of Culture of the German province of Baden-Württemberg has officially been shelved, in the wake of a judgment of the German Constitutional Court questioning the legality of the move.

Sorry, link in German, but the map might be of interest to those of you who are familiar with European geography:

http://www.spiegel.de/schulspiegel/wissen/0,1518,504772,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now it is official:</p>
<p>German-French bilingualism which was supposed to be forced onto an entire region in south-western Germany by the over-zealous Ministry of Culture of the German province of Baden-Württemberg has officially been shelved, in the wake of a judgment of the German Constitutional Court questioning the legality of the move.</p>
<p>Sorry, link in German, but the map might be of interest to those of you who are familiar with European geography:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spiegel.de/schulspiegel/wissen/0,1518,504772,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spiegel.de/schulspi.....72,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: wookinponub</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106444</link>
		<dc:creator>wookinponub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106444</guid>
		<description>Not requiring the primary use of the "native" language sounds pretty damn liberal to me.How do we remain terrorist killing conservatives(the only way to be) and allow such "freedom of speech"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not requiring the primary use of the &#8220;native&#8221; language sounds pretty damn liberal to me.How do we remain terrorist killing conservatives(the only way to be) and allow such &#8220;freedom of speech&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106380</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106380</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;"English should be the language of government, but many who support “English Only” seem to vent most of their anger against those who speak other languages in public. "&lt;/i&gt;

You are right, Lirelou.  That is why I wrote, "Folks who support an amendment declaring English as the official language tend to support English only laws, too, but legally speaking, these laws are distinct."

You are also right that bilingual education is highly politicized and that educators are more ardent supporters than parents themselves.  Right from the college of education, teachers are indoctrinated with research demonstrating that bilingual ed is a better delivery model than alternatives like immersion.  Many authors of these studies are longtime vocal advocates of bilingual ed, which makes me suspicious that the studies have been manipulated to prove the superiority of bilingual ed over pullout ESL and inclusion.  Best practices in education means being flexible with delivery models, and there is no one instructional model that is best for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;English should be the language of government, but many who support “English Only” seem to vent most of their anger against those who speak other languages in public. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>You are right, Lirelou.  That is why I wrote, &#8220;Folks who support an amendment declaring English as the official language tend to support English only laws, too, but legally speaking, these laws are distinct.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are also right that bilingual education is highly politicized and that educators are more ardent supporters than parents themselves.  Right from the college of education, teachers are indoctrinated with research demonstrating that bilingual ed is a better delivery model than alternatives like immersion.  Many authors of these studies are longtime vocal advocates of bilingual ed, which makes me suspicious that the studies have been manipulated to prove the superiority of bilingual ed over pullout ESL and inclusion.  Best practices in education means being flexible with delivery models, and there is no one instructional model that is best for everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: lirelou</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106188</link>
		<dc:creator>lirelou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106188</guid>
		<description>Sonagi, good points. English should be the language of government, but many who support "English Only" seem to vent most of their anger against those who speak other languages in public. As for bilingual eduation, I was once approached by a group of Hispanics who wanted to sue to STOP bilingual education in their district. Their rationale: Bilingual education would hold back their children from acquiring the English skills necessary to rise up in the U.S. system. Unable to take on a class action suit so early in my attempted career, I referred them to a legal aid office in Boston, who REFUSED to take their case based upon political considerations. (Those in the clinic supported bilingual education.) Just because these immigrants (primarily from South American countries) communicated mostly in Spanish did not mean that they wanted their children to be unilingual. As one woman in the group told me: Teaching them Spanish is my job. Teaching them good English is the School's responsibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonagi, good points. English should be the language of government, but many who support &#8220;English Only&#8221; seem to vent most of their anger against those who speak other languages in public. As for bilingual eduation, I was once approached by a group of Hispanics who wanted to sue to STOP bilingual education in their district. Their rationale: Bilingual education would hold back their children from acquiring the English skills necessary to rise up in the U.S. system. Unable to take on a class action suit so early in my attempted career, I referred them to a legal aid office in Boston, who REFUSED to take their case based upon political considerations. (Those in the clinic supported bilingual education.) Just because these immigrants (primarily from South American countries) communicated mostly in Spanish did not mean that they wanted their children to be unilingual. As one woman in the group told me: Teaching them Spanish is my job. Teaching them good English is the School&#8217;s responsibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106178</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106178</guid>
		<description>Looking at that boldface text again, I realize that "Except as provided by law," also refers to federal, state, and local statutes requiring documents and services in languages other than English, for example, voting ballots and driver license exams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at that boldface text again, I realize that &#8220;Except as provided by law,&#8221; also refers to federal, state, and local statutes requiring documents and services in languages other than English, for example, voting ballots and driver license exams.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106172</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106172</guid>
		<description>@#44:

There is a common misconception that making one language official is the same as banning the use of other languages.  Obviously, that is not the case.  Korea and China, like most sovereign countries, have official languages, yet that never stopped me from speaking English or some other non-official language in the public space.   Thirty states have passed laws recognizing English as the official language, and apparently those "five old men and occasional women (sic)" haven't seen fit to strike down these laws.  I believe there are local ordinances in some parts of the US mandating English only for official non-emergency government business.  Folks who support an amendment delcaring English as the official language tend to support English only laws, too, but legally speaking, these laws are distinct. 

In fact, my state's English statute reads as follows (boldface mine):

Official Language Law of Virginia (2006):
CODE OF VIRGINIA,
CHAPTER 829 (1996)
CHAPTER 7. OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE COMMONWEALTH.
§7.1-42. English designated the official language of the Commonwealth.
English shall be designated as the official language of the Commonwealth of Virginia. &lt;b&gt;Except as provided by law, no state agency or local government shall be required to provide and no state agency or local government shall be prohibited from providing any documents, information, literature or other written materials in any language other than English.&lt;/b&gt;
§22.1-212.1. Obligations of school boards.
Pursuant to §7.1-42, school boards shall have no obligation to teach the standard curriculum, except courses in foreign languages, in a language other than English. School boards shall endeavor to provide instruction in the English language which shall be designed to promote the education of students for whom English is a second language. 

In other words, English is required.  Use of other languages is optional unless prohibited by local ordinance.  The second clause, for schools, simply makes bilingual education an option, not a requirement, and encourages using English as the medium of instruction.  Some states like Illinois, where I used to teach, require schools to offer bilingual instruction if there are 20+ LEP students sharing a common native language in one school.  This is a HUGE hiring burden for schools.  It's hard enough finding highly qualified teachers of ESL, math, and science without the additional burden of bilingual certification and fluency in the right language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#44:</p>
<p>There is a common misconception that making one language official is the same as banning the use of other languages.  Obviously, that is not the case.  Korea and China, like most sovereign countries, have official languages, yet that never stopped me from speaking English or some other non-official language in the public space.   Thirty states have passed laws recognizing English as the official language, and apparently those &#8220;five old men and occasional women (sic)&#8221; haven&#8217;t seen fit to strike down these laws.  I believe there are local ordinances in some parts of the US mandating English only for official non-emergency government business.  Folks who support an amendment delcaring English as the official language tend to support English only laws, too, but legally speaking, these laws are distinct. </p>
<p>In fact, my state&#8217;s English statute reads as follows (boldface mine):</p>
<p>Official Language Law of Virginia (2006):<br />
CODE OF VIRGINIA,<br />
CHAPTER 829 (1996)<br />
CHAPTER 7. OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE COMMONWEALTH.<br />
§7.1-42. English designated the official language of the Commonwealth.<br />
English shall be designated as the official language of the Commonwealth of Virginia. <b>Except as provided by law, no state agency or local government shall be required to provide and no state agency or local government shall be prohibited from providing any documents, information, literature or other written materials in any language other than English.</b><br />
§22.1-212.1. Obligations of school boards.<br />
Pursuant to §7.1-42, school boards shall have no obligation to teach the standard curriculum, except courses in foreign languages, in a language other than English. School boards shall endeavor to provide instruction in the English language which shall be designed to promote the education of students for whom English is a second language. </p>
<p>In other words, English is required.  Use of other languages is optional unless prohibited by local ordinance.  The second clause, for schools, simply makes bilingual education an option, not a requirement, and encourages using English as the medium of instruction.  Some states like Illinois, where I used to teach, require schools to offer bilingual instruction if there are 20+ LEP students sharing a common native language in one school.  This is a HUGE hiring burden for schools.  It&#8217;s hard enough finding highly qualified teachers of ESL, math, and science without the additional burden of bilingual certification and fluency in the right language.</p>
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		<title>By: virtual wonderer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106171</link>
		<dc:creator>virtual wonderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106171</guid>
		<description>Most Koreans I know run delis, dry-cleaners, groceries...  All targeting the "broader" market.  In Flushing however...  Lots of people straight from Korea who have no idea how to do business with non-Koreans.

I saw a "bold" (foolish) Korean man open up a Korean bakery in Syosset.  (Marm, you know that area? A bit different from 10 years ago, but Korean businesses going in). He was expecting to sell red bean pastry to the general American market in Syosset.  I knew he would close down, and sure enough, he did.

People like this stay in Flushing and just target other Koreans who run dry-cleaners, groceries etc. I personally think they are doing non-Koreans a favor by putting up all Korean signs.  It's probably better they stay away from these businesses rather then going into a Korean video store and discovering there is nothing he wants to rent. Or going to a Korean "bar" and discovering that people don't socialize with strangers in Korean bars. Or if you are black, would you trust a Korean hair-dresser?  You shouldn't really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most Koreans I know run delis, dry-cleaners, groceries&#8230;  All targeting the &#8220;broader&#8221; market.  In Flushing however&#8230;  Lots of people straight from Korea who have no idea how to do business with non-Koreans.</p>
<p>I saw a &#8220;bold&#8221; (foolish) Korean man open up a Korean bakery in Syosset.  (Marm, you know that area? A bit different from 10 years ago, but Korean businesses going in). He was expecting to sell red bean pastry to the general American market in Syosset.  I knew he would close down, and sure enough, he did.</p>
<p>People like this stay in Flushing and just target other Koreans who run dry-cleaners, groceries etc. I personally think they are doing non-Koreans a favor by putting up all Korean signs.  It&#8217;s probably better they stay away from these businesses rather then going into a Korean video store and discovering there is nothing he wants to rent. Or going to a Korean &#8220;bar&#8221; and discovering that people don&#8217;t socialize with strangers in Korean bars. Or if you are black, would you trust a Korean hair-dresser?  You shouldn&#8217;t really.</p>
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		<title>By: Netizen Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106124</link>
		<dc:creator>Netizen Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anyone who insists that Korean, as well as Chinese, Arabic, Spanish, Yiddish, Hindi, Italian,  Polish or Greek store signs do not belong in NYC, the Great Babylon of the Empire State, are wrong. They themselves do not belong in New York City. 

&lt;i&gt;He is a “product of New York City’s great public school system”&lt;/i&gt;

Hey now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who insists that Korean, as well as Chinese, Arabic, Spanish, Yiddish, Hindi, Italian,  Polish or Greek store signs do not belong in NYC, the Great Babylon of the Empire State, are wrong. They themselves do not belong in New York City. </p>
<p><i>He is a “product of New York City’s great public school system”</i></p>
<p>Hey now.</p>
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		<title>By: WangKon936</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106096</link>
		<dc:creator>WangKon936</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/06/im-not-going-to-flushing-because-of-all-the-korean-signs/#comment-106096</guid>
		<description>Fantasy,

As I've said in before, all laws regarding an official national language do not get past constitutional considerations, namely that ole pesky 1st Amendment, which guarantees your right to say what you want in any darn language. The day you can convince 5 old men and the occasional women that sit in the Supreme Court not to interpret the 1st Amendment in such a matter then you have a chance. For me? I just don't see it happening.

Oh, and on #17. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I was just disappointed that the main Korean American response to the article was just sooooo badly written and was venting my frustration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantasy,</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said in before, all laws regarding an official national language do not get past constitutional considerations, namely that ole pesky 1st Amendment, which guarantees your right to say what you want in any darn language. The day you can convince 5 old men and the occasional women that sit in the Supreme Court not to interpret the 1st Amendment in such a matter then you have a chance. For me? I just don&#8217;t see it happening.</p>
<p>Oh, and on #17. I wasn&#8217;t trying to be a smart ass. I was just disappointed that the main Korean American response to the article was just sooooo badly written and was venting my frustration.</p>
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