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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Us vs. Them&#8221; Is Not Just A Korean Meme</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  2 Dec 2008 22:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: FD</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105199</link>
		<dc:creator>FD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105199</guid>
		<description>Good luck to the Schweizerische Volkspartei or Union Démocratique du Centre or Unione Democratica di Centro or  Partida Populara Svizra. We're cheering you from abroad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good luck to the Schweizerische Volkspartei or Union Démocratique du Centre or Unione Democratica di Centro or  Partida Populara Svizra. We&#8217;re cheering you from abroad.</p>
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		<title>By: MigukNamja</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105175</link>
		<dc:creator>MigukNamja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105175</guid>
		<description>Apologies, I'm very tired and full of typos. The last paragraph should instead read:

&lt;i&gt;
It will &lt;b&gt;likely&lt;/b&gt; be too slow for some (the minority of foreigners and non-ethnic Koreans), yet too fast for many (the likely &lt;b&gt;larger&lt;/b&gt; number of conservative Koreans).&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies, I&#8217;m very tired and full of typos. The last paragraph should instead read:</p>
<p><i><br />
It will <b>likely</b> be too slow for some (the minority of foreigners and non-ethnic Koreans), yet too fast for many (the likely <b>larger</b> number of conservative Koreans).</i></p>
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		<title>By: MigukNamja</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105174</link>
		<dc:creator>MigukNamja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105174</guid>
		<description>For those trying to drag the U.S. into this thread : trying to analyze Korean immigration laws and assimilation of foreigners with the same in the U.S. is pointless - the countries have vastly different histories, cultures, and geographies (large vs. small, for instance).

As for the Switzerland case, there is a very fine line between:

1) controlling crime

2) restricting immigration in an already crowded country

  -and-

3) being racist or otherwise unfairly discriminatory

The first two are fine as general goals. However, when they cross over too much into the 3rd, that's when problems occur.

In Korea, there is indeed some crossing over into the 3rd, but I don't believe I've seen it quite as bad as the Switzerland case. 

Indeed, the family registry system was finally and recently changed so a child can be registered under his or her mother. So, I expect more - not less - foreigner-friendly legislation and social change to take place over the coming years and decades in Korea.

It will liekly be too slow for some (the minority of foreigners and non-ethnic Koreans), yet too fast for many (the likely largely number of conservative Koreans).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those trying to drag the U.S. into this thread : trying to analyze Korean immigration laws and assimilation of foreigners with the same in the U.S. is pointless - the countries have vastly different histories, cultures, and geographies (large vs. small, for instance).</p>
<p>As for the Switzerland case, there is a very fine line between:</p>
<p>1) controlling crime</p>
<p>2) restricting immigration in an already crowded country</p>
<p>  -and-</p>
<p>3) being racist or otherwise unfairly discriminatory</p>
<p>The first two are fine as general goals. However, when they cross over too much into the 3rd, that&#8217;s when problems occur.</p>
<p>In Korea, there is indeed some crossing over into the 3rd, but I don&#8217;t believe I&#8217;ve seen it quite as bad as the Switzerland case. </p>
<p>Indeed, the family registry system was finally and recently changed so a child can be registered under his or her mother. So, I expect more - not less - foreigner-friendly legislation and social change to take place over the coming years and decades in Korea.</p>
<p>It will liekly be too slow for some (the minority of foreigners and non-ethnic Koreans), yet too fast for many (the likely largely number of conservative Koreans).</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105090</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105090</guid>
		<description>"I also notice the similarity in the People’s Party idea that a family should take responsibility for their children and social responsibility in Korea. This is very similar to attitudes here in Korea, but is more so an extension of “Kongja”."

Well, while there SEEMS to be a parallel I do not believe it really exists - one of the problems with immigrants in Europe is that, in some immigrant groups, parents have a nasty habit of effectively charging their children with the task of stealing, burgling, sometimes even robbing, safe in the knowledge that over here nobody can be held responsible for ANY crime (yes, that's right, not even for rape or murder) they commit before attaining the age of 14...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I also notice the similarity in the People’s Party idea that a family should take responsibility for their children and social responsibility in Korea. This is very similar to attitudes here in Korea, but is more so an extension of “Kongja”.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, while there SEEMS to be a parallel I do not believe it really exists - one of the problems with immigrants in Europe is that, in some immigrant groups, parents have a nasty habit of effectively charging their children with the task of stealing, burgling, sometimes even robbing, safe in the knowledge that over here nobody can be held responsible for ANY crime (yes, that&#8217;s right, not even for rape or murder) they commit before attaining the age of 14&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105079</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 07:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105079</guid>
		<description>"Korea is not ready to be available for non-Koreans. The thought never occurred to anyone seriously until post 1980."

So the Germans thought about their country, as well. But they have learned better and nowadays bend over backwards to encourage the immigration of those who are willing to work for a living and to integrate into German society in a reasonable manner. Maybe an attitude the Koreans could copy ?

The original article was dealing with the specific problem of immigrants who do not come to a country (Switzerland or any other) in search of opportunities to work their way up in society but rather in search of opportunities to take advantage of their host country and its citizens.

It is obvious to me that no country whatever can remain passive for long when confronted with such a situation. Nor should Korea remain passive if those who came to the ROK as immigrants were behaving that way. But this is clearly not the case...

What do I suggest to the governments of all host countries, anywhere ?

Kick out the criminals, the troublemakers and those unwilling to work for their living - but be fair to those immigrants who come to your place in good faith and with honest intentions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Korea is not ready to be available for non-Koreans. The thought never occurred to anyone seriously until post 1980.&#8221;</p>
<p>So the Germans thought about their country, as well. But they have learned better and nowadays bend over backwards to encourage the immigration of those who are willing to work for a living and to integrate into German society in a reasonable manner. Maybe an attitude the Koreans could copy ?</p>
<p>The original article was dealing with the specific problem of immigrants who do not come to a country (Switzerland or any other) in search of opportunities to work their way up in society but rather in search of opportunities to take advantage of their host country and its citizens.</p>
<p>It is obvious to me that no country whatever can remain passive for long when confronted with such a situation. Nor should Korea remain passive if those who came to the ROK as immigrants were behaving that way. But this is clearly not the case&#8230;</p>
<p>What do I suggest to the governments of all host countries, anywhere ?</p>
<p>Kick out the criminals, the troublemakers and those unwilling to work for their living - but be fair to those immigrants who come to your place in good faith and with honest intentions.</p>
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		<title>By: abcdefg</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105066</link>
		<dc:creator>abcdefg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105066</guid>
		<description>Thanks for pointing out the obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for pointing out the obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105064</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105064</guid>
		<description>I'm not saying you're contradicting yourself; simply pointing out that the original post here had nothing to do with the U.S. -- it was (falsely) comparing Switzerland and Korea. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;for which reason, I’m actually for walling up our border to the south.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

"Our"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying you&#8217;re contradicting yourself; simply pointing out that the original post here had nothing to do with the U.S. &#8212; it was (falsely) comparing Switzerland and Korea. </p>
<blockquote><p>for which reason, I’m actually for walling up our border to the south.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Our&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: abcdefg</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105057</link>
		<dc:creator>abcdefg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 03:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105057</guid>
		<description>I don't care about Sweden, Switzerland, or Denmark and haven't been writing about them, obviously. But I agree with the 2nd paragraph of your comment. Switzerland _should_  do what it must in order to protect its integrity. Although that brings up another topic which I haven't been writing about; namely, the issue of how a government _should_ operate towards the minorities or immigrants in a country. All this time, I've been merely describing two countries, comparing them, and noting what their respective histories, heritage, or experiences with certain issues entails for how their minorities are going to be perceived within the general purview of each respective society. Again, that's not a matter of _ought_ or how a government _ought_ to function towards it minorities. That's just denotation that follows from what a society is. 

Again, I totally agree. Switzerland ought to act in a way that protects its long term interests. The USA ought to act in a way that protects its long term interests too -- for which reason, I'm actually for walling up our border to the south. South Korea too ought to do what it can to protect its long term interests. - It's presumed that all cases here government function within reason or within parameters that are justifiable and that are moral. These beliefs conflict with none of my other comments in case you're wondering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care about Sweden, Switzerland, or Denmark and haven&#8217;t been writing about them, obviously. But I agree with the 2nd paragraph of your comment. Switzerland _should_  do what it must in order to protect its integrity. Although that brings up another topic which I haven&#8217;t been writing about; namely, the issue of how a government _should_ operate towards the minorities or immigrants in a country. All this time, I&#8217;ve been merely describing two countries, comparing them, and noting what their respective histories, heritage, or experiences with certain issues entails for how their minorities are going to be perceived within the general purview of each respective society. Again, that&#8217;s not a matter of _ought_ or how a government _ought_ to function towards it minorities. That&#8217;s just denotation that follows from what a society is. </p>
<p>Again, I totally agree. Switzerland ought to act in a way that protects its long term interests. The USA ought to act in a way that protects its long term interests too &#8212; for which reason, I&#8217;m actually for walling up our border to the south. South Korea too ought to do what it can to protect its long term interests. - It&#8217;s presumed that all cases here government function within reason or within parameters that are justifiable and that are moral. These beliefs conflict with none of my other comments in case you&#8217;re wondering.</p>
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		<title>By: dogbertt</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105034</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbertt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 00:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-105034</guid>
		<description>But, abcdefg, the article is not even _about_ the U.S.  Even accepting your argument that "Korea is for Koreans" and "the U.S. is for Koreans", nations like Denmark, Switzerland, and Sweden do not have that tired and misunderstood "give us your tired and poor" meme (apologies, пётр).

They should be allowed to have immigration and social policies more akin to Korea than to the U.S. and so preserve their cultures and social cohesion in the face of a criminal onslaught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, abcdefg, the article is not even _about_ the U.S.  Even accepting your argument that &#8220;Korea is for Koreans&#8221; and &#8220;the U.S. is for Koreans&#8221;, nations like Denmark, Switzerland, and Sweden do not have that tired and misunderstood &#8220;give us your tired and poor&#8221; meme (apologies, пётр).</p>
<p>They should be allowed to have immigration and social policies more akin to Korea than to the U.S. and so preserve their cultures and social cohesion in the face of a criminal onslaught.</p>
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		<title>By: Railwaycharm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-104988</link>
		<dc:creator>Railwaycharm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/02/us-vs-them-is-not-just-a-korean-meme/#comment-104988</guid>
		<description>But, with foreign brides and hubbies resulting in children, it is inevitable that laws will be passed to incorporate non-Koreans into society.

So waygook brides will get more attention than Korean women? We will be debating this one during commercial breaks of the Lawrence Welk show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, with foreign brides and hubbies resulting in children, it is inevitable that laws will be passed to incorporate non-Koreans into society.</p>
<p>So waygook brides will get more attention than Korean women? We will be debating this one during commercial breaks of the Lawrence Welk show.</p>
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