Alex Lee, the standard bearer of “gyopohood,” touches the “third rail of Asian American identity politics” by deconstructing “color-blind love” between white men and Asian women:
A Korean friend asked me recently, “You’re real popular with Korean girls, aren’t you?” After replying I had a Korean girlfriend, he never talked to me again. Do white guys react in this way after being ‘attacked’ by Asian men over Asian women? Maybe John Lennon was right: All you need is love? But he could afford to be so aloof. He was white and Yoko wasn’t.
Criticizing interracial relationships between white men and Asian women is the third rail of Asian American identity politics. You don’t do it, especially as an Asian American man. But the issue deserves debate. And, yes, again.
I don’t have a problem with interracial couples. My problem is with willfully ignorant people who embrace myths like “color-blind love transcends racial inequalities” and “all Asian men are sexist while white men are not.” Of course, any couple can “fall in love.” It’s naive, however, to ignore the reality of white privilege.
I personally found this part amusing:
Numerous studies contend this discrepancy is unique to Asian Americans since in other racial groups men outmarry more than women. (Outmarriage statistics for black women with white men, interestingly, were nearly the same statistical inverse of the Asian female situation. Coincidence? Last time I checked, black women were dissed by the global media almost as much as Asian men–save Beyonce).
So, why the gender gap? A popular explanation is the overt patriarchy in Asian culture, like the sexist preference of sons over daughters to preserve the family name. But equally important is the West’s wartime legacy in Asia, like U.S. servicemen, camptown-centered brothels and Asian war brides. Sorry, but a white man’s earnest claim that he is “nice” and not like other perverted white guys addicted to Asian porn isn’t enough to erase history.
Not that there’s anything wrong with being addicted to Asian porn, of course. And just out of curiosity, are the outmarriage statistics for black women primarily due to the bad shake they get in the global media, or is it primarily due to other cultural factors? I’m not an expert on the racial politics of sex, nor, frankly, would I ever want to be, but I thought many white men are hesitant to approach black women not because they’ve been conditioned by “the global media” to find black women unattractive, but because they believe black women find white men unattractive. Moreover, are the outmarriage statistics regarding white man-black women couples universal, or are they particular to the United States? Honestly, I don’t know, although I do know that when I studying in Tanzania, a large number of the interracial relationships I saw (in fact, the majority) were, in fact, white Western men and black African women.
Anyway, Lee has penned a lengthy piece, so read it all on your own. But for the impatient, here’s the conclusion:
It’s easy to criticize someone like me as defending native Asian men because I’m Asian. But I’m also American, an irony lost on most white Western men who brand me as some sort of Korean nationalist. I have no problem criticizing Asia, like how East Asian men exploit South East Asian women but still use marriages between the two as proof of how “cultural understanding” they are. Here, the power dynamics are clear. So, what makes white men with Asian women that different?
Ultimately, it’s not about arguing who’s “worse” or shallowly emphasizing that we’re all sexist and racist. It’s about taking the issue less personally, enough to see that there are larger forces at play. I love my parents but still find it important to criticize the ridiculously classist system they came from. Consequently, the current state of interracial relationships doesn’t equal “racial harmony” as much as some people would like to believe.
After all, it’s called “color-blind love” for a reason. It blinds you to the truth.
And that truth is, what exactly, Alex?
Personally, I find looking at human relationships — particularly those between men and women — through the prism of power relations rather dreadful. Then again, maybe I’m just a romantic. But since we’re in a deconstruction mood, why simply stop at race? Why not class? Or why not all male-female relationships, for certainly, the power relationship between man and woman has been unequal far longer than the relationship between East and West? Perhaps women, in their natural state, are lesbians, and the primeval world was full of women munching each others carpets as far as the eye could see before the advent of evil patriarchal society, which, in the process of assigning unequal gender roles, conditioned women to find men and their penises attractive?
(HT to reader)
{ 115 comments… read them below or add one }
Forgive me but, did you actually write that last paragraph Robert? That seems quite the blue turn of phrase and I’m not sure dad is going to want to explain to sonny boy the carpet business unless he really is a carpet salesman.
It’s really hard to generalise the argument of why people date outside their clan, although generalisation is more the norm here on this comment post section than not.
Personally, my (Korean) wife was tired of dating Korean men because she isn’t skinny like most Korean women tend to be, she isn’t vain, disdains makeup, smokes, and has a strong character. Her experience with her compatriots in the dating scene was one disaster after another because all of her ex-boyfriends, according to her, wanted her either to lose weight, stop smoking, wear more makeup, be less strong-willed or any combination of the above. I don’t like her smoking, but I don’t give her shit about it because, at the risk of being too mushy (is this word still in use here in the 21st century?), I’d rather have my chain-smoking wife and all the millions of other things that are good about her than have some non-smoking vainglorious wombat who never goes five minutes without looking at her mirror to see how she looks.
I know other Korean women who are married to various foreigners (European, African, North American, Oceanian, and South American) and most of them married outside the clan for very similar reasons and even more, such as they felt more comfortable with non-Korean men because there was less pressure or interference from the non-Korean mother-in-law, or there was less pressure to make it home for national holidays, or they were simply treated better, or they just felt more comfortable in such interracial relationships instead of the standard intra-racial ones, or their flaws were accepted more readily.
Of course, this is not to imply that Korean men can’t treat women well, or that non-Korean mothers-in-law can’t be overbearing, interfering witches, or that non-Korean men prefer voluptuousness to malnourished-like skinniness, or that Korean men don’t like women who don’t wear makeup, or whatever.
Any type of deconstruction is fun for debate and for posts on a web site comments section and this topic should make for more great debate here, but that’s all such deconstructions are good for, methinks…
I know other Korean women who are married to various foreigners (European, African, North American, Oceanian, and South American) and most of them married outside the clan for very similar reasons and even more.
No, no. There is only one reason. To improve their English.
(Note tongue in cheek.)
How much money does Marmot make every time I click on that photo of the two Filipina cuties at the top of the thread?
Geez, why is it that I always fail to consider white privilege in my day to day decisionmaking? How is it that I have been able to go on for so long without an overwhelming sense of guilt for being white?
Hmmm… I never thought about that. Should I assign a racial or cultural reason every time my girlfriend and I argue? That would be a convenient scapegoat. Seriously, who ever said that interracial relationships were harmonious? For that matter, who ever said that relationships in general were harmonious? The author, and I use that term loosely, wants to assign grander meaning to why people hook up. It probably just comes down to something simple – like pheremones and cheap beer.
I don’t have a problem with people expressing their whacked out theories, but I do have a problem when newspaper editors print them. This was in the “Foreign Community” section of the paper. Not to get all ad hominem, but somehow I don’t think that Mr. Lee fits is an ambassador of community relations.
There are many non-vain, non-smoking korean women out there if you know where to look.
http://www.koreangirls.net
http://www.yeongkalbo.co.kr
http://www.cheapgookslutswholl.....gwhite.com
Alex should be applauded for his attempts to investigate this interracial mating dynamic that has long infested the bilateral relationship.
4 comments:
1/ His first paragraph is baffling and confused.
“A Korean friend asked me recently, “You’re real popular with Korean girls, aren’t you?” After replying I had a Korean girlfriend, he never talked to me again. Do white guys react in this way after being `attacked’ by Asian men over Asian women? ”
Huh? A Korean friend asked Alex Lee, another ethnic Korean, if he dated Korean girls and never spoke to him again because he did? Huh?
2/ “For every Pitt, Clooney, and Damon the world sees in Oceans 11, 12, and 13, Asian men get the same mute Chinese acrobat who fits into boxes. Globally, Western white men are allowed to be everything Asian men are not, sexy and nonsexist. They even speak. ”
Living in San Francisco, he knows “globally”. Attn Alex Lee: as an Asian American, you represent 4% of the US population. As a male Asian American, that would be 2%. That is why you don’t see men like you very often in Holywood blockbusters. We know your Omma told you you were the center of the universe, but the other 98% of America never got the word so STFU. Come to China, Japan, and Korea however and you will find films with scarcely a whitey in sight. Talking, as you say. Portrayed positively.
3/ ““Sorry, I don’t date Asian guys because they’re too sexist or nerdy” is a refrain I’ve heard a lot from Asian American girls. Too bad, Hollywood has been selling the same stereotype of Asian men forever. ”
Yes Alex, it’s Hollywood’s fault. These women have grown up in Asian families surrounded by Asian men all their lives. But watching a movie once a week trumps that. Uh huh.
4/ “If the women were aware of their oppression..”
Once anyone resorts to the old marxist “false consciousness” arguement, you know they are desperate. How insignificant must an oppression be if the ‘victims’ are unaware of it?
Doesn’t this guy have any other topic to write about? Some white boy kicked him in the knee in 4th grade, some white girl turned him down for the prom, and we have to open our papers to this drivel? Please Alex, just shut up.
One constant, though, seems to be that women are more likely to marry outside the group if the man is wealthy, or from a wealthy country. You don’t see many Korean women going to Vietnam for a husband, and despite what that Korean TV show with foreign women and Korean men would like viewers to believe, not many women from the advanced countries come to Korea to find a man.
닭살 is what I’ve heard it called here.
I wonder how he would explain the fact that my wife’s parent’s are far wealthier than my own parents and that she has a great relationship with her parents. He probably can’t because any attempts to do so would force him to face his own prejudices.
I agree with the Marmot and dokdoforever (comment #8) that international interracial dating can better be explained by class than race. For better or worse, women marry up and being from the dominant tribe helps guys find dates.
As for interracial dating in the States, I don’t pretend to know the answer but I will point out that the numbers are not even across the board. Most Indian-American women marry within their tribe while a majority of Korean-American women marry white guys (with most other Asian falling between those extremes). If “white privilege” or Hollywood were to blame for Asian guys not getting dates, then you would not see those kinds of differences.
I will try to find a link when I get back.
#10 is an interesting point…a lot of the Korean wives of westerners here I know come from well-off or VERY well-off families. Why? Dunno. No doubt Alex would give you a pithy answer of pomo bs, though.
i guess if one really wants to play the racial profiling/stereotyping card, we could just assume that the real reason korean/asian women date/marry/fornicate outside the tribe is the nose/dick relationship. and since koreans think all foreign men have big noses, it only serves to mean that all foreign men have big…
belt buckles.
anyway, a taxi driver up here in my lovely east coast seaside city a few years ago decided he would strike up a conversation, in korean, about the usual with me and my friends. where you from? how long you been here? what do think about korean food? korean women? korean culture?
all fine and dandy until he started pointing out that korean food was so delicious and spicy, which he believed non-koreans couldn’t handle; that korean is the hardest, yet greatest, language in the history of communication, and other such nationalistic horseshit. but the kicker was when he had to point out that i had a big nose, that my friends had big noses, that he noticed most foreigners had big noses, bigger than his nose, indeed, than all korean noses.
i pondered how to respond and then came up with something i couldn’t resist passing up; i mean he opened the door and i had no choice but to barge in, so i said to him, in korean, “well, you know the saying, big nose, big dick, small nose, small…” i didn’t even finish, i just trailed off.
the air inside that taxi on that sweltering summer night turned as cold as the coldest winter day atop pyoung chang resort. he immediately pulled to the side of the road and bade us to exit his car. as i paid the fare, i winked at him and rubbed my nose and then got out of the car.
such a small pathetic thing, but it was funny as hell.
point is, as i already mentioned and in the same vein as i already mentioned, korean/asian women just want more sizable tootsie rolls filling their cookie jars…
My theory:
Korean women from rich families are more likely to have had a chance to study overseas. So, they would naturally feel more comfortable with the language and culture issues that hold other Koreans back when it comes to making friends with and/or dating foreigners. Also, rich Korean parents are more likely to have traveled outside of Korea, too, so that would make them, generally, more open and less afraid of the average foreigner. It makes sense that there would be a lot of Korean women from rich families married to non-Koreans.
There is some good news for Alex (see towards the bottom)!
Here is a link to some numbers:
http://us_asians.tripod.com/ar.....iages.html
Among Korean 1.5ers and native born Korean-Americans, only 20% of women marry within their ethnic group while 50% marry whites. Interestingly, other groups tend to hold on to more of their women.
The linked piece also notes that there is no shortage of Asian-American women for Asian-American guys because many of the white-Asian marriages are also INTERNATIONAL marriages. In other words, a lot of the Asian women married to white Americans are immigrants. Since there is no similar immigration of Asian grooms, Asian-American guys can breath a little easier.
If you look at the first chart, you will see that the three groups of foreign born and raised Asian-Americans who are married to whites the most are Japanese, Koreans and Filippinos. What do they have in common? All have or recently had major US military bases (which of course provide plenty of single American men for the ladies to choose from).
Interestingly, Japanese women raised in the USA are less likely to be married to white guys than Japanese women who were raised in Japan before coming to the USA. For all other groups listed, the reverse is true.
#12, It is a good thing I love my wive or I would be jealous since her family is just as working-class as mine.
To keep up with the racial profiling/stereotyping theme, here is something that needs to be mentioned, since we all know how accurate the science is on this:
there’s really only one reason why Korean/Asian women date/marry/fornicate outside the clan: because of the nose/dick relationship. You know, big nose=big…
Belt buckle.
Anyway, funny story in relation. A few years ago, here in our lovely east coast seaside city, on a typically sticky hot summer evening, a taxi driver tried to engage me and my friends in a typical conversation, in Korean, not English. There were the usual Qs: where you from? What do you do? How do you like korea? What about Korean food? Korean culture? No big deal to this point.
As it was a long ride to where we were going, the topics/questions inevitably led to nationalistic crap, such as Korean food being the best in the world and too spicy for non-koreans; Korean being the most difficult, yet greatest, language in the world; Korean culture being more interesting than other asian cultures; and Korean people being so attractive. Again, no big deal, though irritating because of the insecure nationalistic overtones.
But then he had to get into personal comparisons. He mentioned how non-koreans were all fat but Koreans weren’t, and about how each of us was fat. Grinning and bearing it, we just laughed along with him. Then, he pointed out how our noses were all big, bigger than his, bigger, in fact, than most koreans’ noses.
I pondered this for a moment and then decided I couldn’t resist. I mean, when someone holds the door open for you, you only have the one prerogative but to barge on in. so, I said to him that I had a big nose, yes, but did he know what having a big nose meant? He said he didn’t know. So, I gave him the big nose=big dick, small nose=small dick formula.
I tell you, the air on the coldest, most blustery day atop Pyoung Chang couldn’t ever be as cold as it got in that taxi on that sweltering, summer night. He immediately pulled over and shouted at us to get out. As I paid the fare, I winked at him and rubbed my nose as I got out. He roared off, cursing us all down the street.
Bottom line, Korean/Asian women go outside the clan because they prefer bigger tootsie rolls in their cookie jars.
There’s just such a depth of stupidity in Alex Lee’s piece, on any re-reading you can find new things evidencing his complete blathering pomo cluelessness:
“But I’m also American, an irony lost on most white Western men who brand me as some sort of Korean nationalist”
Irony is the difference between what is spoken and what is meant, between actions and outcome, you illiterate puck. The word you mean to use is “distinction” or “fact”. For the love of god at least get the raw mechanics of your jargon right…
#13,
Don’t you think that a person dating ‘outside of the tribe’ simply because they are open-minded would deliver a blow to his theory?
If only 5% of Korean men find a Korean woman attractive, but 70% of white guys thinks she’s “really hot”, what are the chances she’s going to marry a Korean guy?
On the White Man-Black Woman front, some might find these links interesting:
http://findarticles.com/p/arti.....ai_7405473
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING.....index.html
http://blackfeminism.org/index.....-and-love/
Then there’s always this blog, which I found via La Shawn Barber’s blog:
http://bfinterracialmarriage.blogspot.com/
@#14
I like this site better than Lee’s (Lee isn’t rigorous and doesn’t explain his methodology):
http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial2.shtml (for US-raised Asians)
http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml (overall)
According to the first link, the numbers for endogamous vs white marriage among Korean Americans (US-born or 1.5 generation) are 40% and 48% respectively for females. (For guys, it’s 63.2% Korean and 23.9% white).
How to account for the disproportionately high percentage of Korean women married to whites? I’ve read somewhere that it has something to do with Korean adoptees, who number more than 150,000. (The asian-nation stats above for women are based on the 2000 US Census and 34,464 Korean females, and doesn’t distinguish between the adoptees and non.)
This issue was covered by the “evolutionary conservative” ten years ago─Steve Sailer: Is Love Colorblind? P.C. types will not be pleased.
You mean THIS Steve Sailer:
http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050903_new_orleans.htm
I found this part of Sailer’s discourse (linked by Western Confucian) telling:
Read: Feminism has let the black man steal our women. Disgusting.
#16: Thanks for that one. Reminds me of the one where a guy kept going on and on about Korea’s “5000-year” history, so the American who had had enough said, “Yes, Korea has 5000 years of history, that’s great, and America has only 200 years of history. But, we’ve put a man on the moon, what have you done?”
Back to topic: Do we really need to comment on what this tree-killing ink waster, not too mention 1 and O squanderer on the Internet, gets published in the local rag?
Hey now, that’s my local rag you are talking about.
OK, maybe I’m chopped liver but the K-Times also has Doc Lankov, so they must be doing something right.
Touched a nerve, have I?
You also used to have Breen. Anyway, if they had real editing I might find more respect for it.
While I don’t think that Hollywood images of Asian men explain the real or perceived differences in intermarriage rates. I do agree with Mr. Lee that Asian men are generally not portrayed as sexually attractive in Hollywood and American pop culture in general. Additionally, I don’t think this can be explained simply by the relatively small numbers of Asians in America. There seems to be no shortage of female Asian sex symbols in Hollywood. But as far as Asian males are concernend, Jackie Chan is a more “comfortable” Asian icon for the US than a male Asian heartthrob. I am not saying that there is some conspiracy in Hollywood or that this explains interracial relationships but on the other hand, I would guess that it does have some connection and/or interaction with our (American)popular images of Asian men.
What happened to Mike Breen’s column, anyway?
The root of this whole issue stems from the male feeling inadequate and threatened by “other” males as they encroach on what he views as “his.” In the States, Asian-American men are constantly whining about white males (or others) “stealing” Asian women. If more Asian-American (or Korean men in Korea) would step away from the World of Warcraft, learn some social skills, and attempt to be the alpha male instead of being the incessant whining baby, they might actually get laid.
Asian women are attracted to whitey because he aggressively peruses them, not because of some mystical quality he possesses or some Asian inadequacy. You could also make the argument that Asian women in general have a better “shelf life” than white women, and are thus more attractive to “foreigners.”
(Insert self serving bias here) I am an American male who has a beautiful Korean wife. She was attracted to me because 1. I’m aggressive 2. I showed a vibrant interest in her and treated her well.
Korean men need to quit complaining, check out of the PC bong, and talk to real women. If American women were half as beautiful as Korean women, I’d have ever left. They should be grateful and get off their ass.
Spot on about the PC Bang.
Ask a 20 something white dude what his interests are:
1. WOMEN 2. WOMEN 3. BEER
Ask a 20 something Korean dude the same question:
1. Computa Games
Spot on about the PC Bang.
Ask a 20 something white dude what his interests are:
1. WOMEN 2. WOMEN 3. BEER
Ask a 20 something Korean dude the same question:
1. Computa Games
slim,
I think Breen moved back to England.
As far as Asian men in Hollywood go, I think it is one of those chicken and egg things. If you have women going gaga over, say, Rick Yune (whom I would say (in a very non-gay way) is an alright looking guy) like they do over Brad Pitt, Hollywood would be throwing sexy roles at him left and right.
At the risk of further blunting these sweeping generalizations about individual relationships, let me suggest one more possible reason for the high rate of intermarriage by Korean women: people are much more attracted to those whom the Love Police like Mr. Lee and the after-church gossip crowd would forbid. It’s why censorship backfires and perhaps (aside from a degree of selective media interest) why so many Republican congressmen seem to be having man trouble. Admittedly, the last is an imperfect example because it only works for those with a homosexual or bisexual predisposition. My greater point, however, is that societal disapproval can transform predisposition into obession. I suspect that the thinly-veiled jealousy of Alex Lee is a powerful aphrodisiac, though not toward guys like Alex Lee.
Two words: self-fulfilling.
Another set of questions I’ve always wanted to ask those who try to psychologize this issue: if a blond white man is into busty blondes, is it then some kind of paraphelia that the white guy is addicted to busty blonde porn? What if he’s Italian? Or Jewish? What if he’s black? What if it’s a black woman? Asking those questions reveals this Marxist deconstructionism to be anything but race and gender neutral, because no one in the PC crowd would dare to suggest that any of those attractions are somehow not normal or appropriate. It’s PC way of trying to regulate other peoples’ relationships of which, for a combination of personal and political reasons, they disapprove.
Sgt Cockblocker of the Seoul Metropolitan Love Police is on the case.
LOL, Joshua.
Right on, Joshua. The kind of pressure that people like Alex Lee try to put on Korean women not to date white guys often has the opposite affect (although sometimes it causes them to date white guys in secret, lol).
Meanwhile, Alex Lee’s assertion that no white guy can really be a nice guy because of “camptown-centered brothels and Asian war brides” is not the kind of argument he seems willing to apply to himself. Is he a pimp because his countrymen owned and operated the brothels servicing Japanese, and then later US troops? Really, I would say brothels and war brides are the furthest thing from my mind, and the mind of an Asian girl, that I may date.
Anyway, just jealously.
This Alex dude has his goofball opinion. Everyone here has theirs. Tomorrow morning we all wake up and go about doing what we’ve all been doing…whatever that may be. The whole debate is masturbatory. Good night.
Well said, Iceberg!
On a somewhat related note: does anyone think Alex Lee reads this blog?
alex lee sounds like bumfromkorea who posts here often
Most people have missed the main point here (most notably Alex Lee).
Simply put, it’s all about the genes, baby. PC people, stop reading now.
Men are attracted to feminity, and women are attracted to masculinity. That doesn’t necessarily mean that men are going to be the most attracted to the most feminine women or that women are going to be most attracted to the most masculine men. On a gradiating scale from “masculinity” to “femininity”, men prefer a femininity that is in a certain range in relation to their own masculinity. Let’s call this GQ – gender quotient. Women also prefer men in a certain range in relation to their own GQ.
If you look at bone density, muscle-fat ratio, height, androgen receptivity (testosterone), development of secondary sexual characteristics (deep voice/muscularity, etc. for men & breast development etc. for women) you will find that asian men and women are the most physically feminine while black men and women are the most masculine.
In a multi-racial society this translates into black women and asian men generally being the least sexually desirable to the opposite sex. Sorry Mr. Lee.
Asian women and white women seem to be about equally attractive to both white men and black men. Asian women tend to prefer more masculine white and black men over asian men, but probably feel most physically compatable with white men on the left side of the white guy GQ curve. White women also prefer white and black men, and sociological inequality confounds this, but if all things were made equal, I think white women would prefer black men on the left side of the black guy GQ curve. (asian women on the left side of the GQ and black men on the right side, are probably the most attractive to asian men and black women respectively).
It may be true that white men enjoy privelege and are esteemed more highly in popular culture – but this is not a root cause of why asian women are fleeing the racial nest, as the author seems to be saying, so much as a result of the factors outlined above. White and black men, being generally more masculine and therefore more attractive in the first place, make better action heroes and tough guys.
It’s a hard truth that has nothing to do with patriarchy, war-time legacy, pop culture or power-dynamics.
I have seen lots of makeup-loving, skinny, hard-headed Korean girls who smoke…
Hoju is completely on the money. Several studies have indicated that, while all people generally equate symmetry with beauty, males in particular are drawn to females who appear to be either very developed looking women (i.e. hip to waist ratio and large breasts indicate fertility) or very youthful looking women (more child-like faces and indicators that point toward youth). Asian women, in general, fall into the latter category. I’ll say it again, whitey knows that they have longer shelf life and won’t fall into the morbidly obese / wrinkled skin cancer category. Women are more attracted to very masculine features, border-line on cave man.
Another interesting thing to note is the disposition of certain males to consistently venture outside of their respective racial group (Thomas Jefferson, Me, Tom Willis from the Jeffersons) when it is contrary to their culture. These males provide a valuable genetic function by making the gene pool deeper with their mixed (intended or not) offspring.
My question is: Would the average Korean male prefer a blonde bomb shell to a Shilla princess if the Hermit kingdom’s xenophobia didn’t dictate his choice, or if he had his pick of the heterogeneous litter?
Hummm?
I don’t know the word “pomo” that I saw twice on this thread. What’s that mean?
#38 -
Guess I should have kept my big mouth shut. For the record, my question was rhetorical.
#38 — It’s bad form to attack a commenter when he hasn’t even commented yet.
bumfromkorea writes better than Alex and appears to be US-based.
ALEX LEE is
Doctor Loooooove~~~
pomo = POst-MOdern
Where I live (greater Washington, DC) I see little indication of Koreans (I hang out with twinkies as well as FOBs) being attracted to people of other races (of course there are exceptions like when a Korean girl who is not so attractive gets up there in years and knows no Korean guy is gonna approach her). If anything, the younger generations are becoming more ethnically “proud” and exclusive and will only date other Koreans. Granted, the previous generations (like mine) did often marry outside the race as indicated by how almost every Korean-American (boy and girl) in my hometown in North Carolina who grew up in the 1970s and 1980s married a Caucasian….but now, the STRONG trend I’ve noticed is that younger Koreans and Korean-American girls (born in the late 1970s and early 1980s) want to meet other Koreans and Korean-Americans only and not any other race (that includes other Asian ethnicities).
I talked with many Japanese women (most recently when I was visiting Japan a few months ago) about interracial dating, and the consensus I heard from them is that they preferred a Japanese man…but that Western men (meaning white and black) were superior to Japanese men in at least one aspect: Physical appearance. These days, Korean women, like Japanese women, prefer women of their own race….but as opposed to Japanese women, the Korean women I’ve encountered truly do find men of Korean descent more attractive than white or black men; it’s not just an ethnic pride thing or a xenophobia thing with them when they say they like Korean men over any other men. This is the generation that fell in love with soccer player Ahn Jung-Hwan and actor Jang Dong-Gun in the 1990s and 2000s while they were growing up. The Korean man is the ideal for the younger generation.
So maybe I’m living in a vacuum here in DC with the large young Korean population here (many of them recently arrived from Korea), but I am just not seeing any big rush of girls running to men of other races. If anything, I often hear them make negative observations about Western men and their supposed lack of hygiene and distinct smells and all that. To be honest, I can only frown when they talk like this because I have many white and black friends and I think they practice their hygiene just fine….but there you have it.
Interesting JK and come to think of it, I (also in DC) seldom observe Koreans in significant numbers mix with anyone besides Koreans other than at the workplace. Ditto campuses. I can’t claim to be privy to their thoughts on inter-racial relationships, though.
If this is truly the trend, it renders Alex Lee’s thinking and writings even more useless and off-base.
i think thats a trend across the board with asians who go abroad they pretty much hang out with their own kind
as for korea itself i think the percentage of korean women looking for other than a korean male is growing for one reason as mentioned above western men are considered more masculine and the most important is there are much more western males in korea now and growing everyday
10 years ago there wasnt even close to the amount of 3rd country nationals as you have today.
the entire yongsan area was military and diplomats from around 2000 the influx began of canadians, aussies, kiwis, germans, brits and so on
the area has adjusted to meet this new demograph itaewon is no longer seen as some place for whores to go meet foreign devils but an international community area with a variety of good pubs, restaraunts, shopping, etc. Lots of young good looking korean girls can be seen both with their foriegn BF or hanging out with their friends to hopefully meet one
Now, Australian-Man, how the hell do you explain Woody Allen and Soon-Yi, with that theory?
I am so tired of 5′ 6″, 160 pound American Koreans complaining about typing in America. Women like their men to be bigger, stronger and smarter than they are (basic biology). Alex blogged about being chased by some Italian youths in Rome, belive me that would never happen to a big guy. According to my grandmother, my grandfather was a national wrestling champ so you can imagine my build. I am a big guy and let me tell you that I have been so harrassed by white girls (for some reason they are all short) and by older white women that it is not even funny. One girl kept following me around for about two weeks around campus (could not call campus police, could you imagine the conversation; Security: You mean an attractive young girl is asking you to give her some, what the hell is wrong with you, are you gay or weird or something?) Actually it was American Korean girls would not give me the time of day because I was poor and had what one girl said was “gorilla arms”. All my friends had Korean girlfriends except me. So I grew up just wanting to date Korean girls but they kept saying no. Lo and behold, I later get to Korea and I have to beat girls off of me with a stick. Everyone at my company just kept asking me to dinner and they was always a single girl who joined who just happened to come by. I mean it was flattering but it freaked the hell out of me. I still pretty much look the same so I concluded it was my American passport and the fact that I was finally making some serious money. So I decided to experiment by getting a Russian lookin passport, dressing very plainly and telling my dates that I am do low level clerical work. Guess what–so far no takers. Not one interested woman. At this rate I am going to have to marry some white woman from New Hampshire (whom I psychologically detest because Morman girls don’t marry non-Mormons) or some gold digging Korean Korean who I impress by finally whipping out my Black American Express card and wooing her with my perfect American conversational English. Oh by the way–did Alex Lee ever say sorry to all the Korean nationals for using his American pedigree to date his hot girlfriend from south of the Han River?
“…as for korea itself i think the percentage of korean women looking for other than a korean male is growing for one reason as mentioned above western men are considered more masculine…”
I disagree with this being the reason (and as for masculinity, obviously you haven’t hung out with the younger crowd of Koreans and Korean-Americans hanging out in Annandale, Virginia, DC’s Korea town, where you will find overly muscular guys whose sole hobby seems to be lifting weights, running marathons, and getting in brawls).
As for the few Korean women I know of in this area who married Caucasian or black men….I am not saying this to be mean – seriously – but….they weren’t really, um, attractive. Most were kind of heavy, and just not really pretty. The ones who were okay-looking had serious personality issues, or were kind of lacking in manners. I used to HATE conversing with them in Annandale or at church or wherever we bumped into each other because they would ask me a question and before I got five words into answering it, they would interrupt me about another topic. So either they were unattractive, had no manners, or both. No WONDER most, if not all, Korean and Korean-American guys avoided such girls. But always waiting for them was the white or black guy, who often ended up being p*ssy-whipped afterwards. And I’m happy for them; the man found what he wanted, and I guess the woman did also. And Korean-Americans like myself once we either saw such a girl (and weren’t impressed with her looks) or conversed with one (where we could barely get a word in the conversation when talking with the oftentimes bad-mannered, narcissistic girl) simply avoided her, which is what we wanted. Everyone came out happy.
In a nutshell, it’s way to generalizing and simplifying on your part to say “Oh Korean girls are marrying Western guys more because we Westerners are more masculine.” You really have to know the story behind the story.
#39 Hoju Saram:
Thanks for clearing up that “hard truth” thing for me. That would be something to nail down. I was thinking my wife and I chose each other because we loved one another, in a spiritual sense, but now through your insights I realize it must have just been a matter of GQ curve and other physically superficial traits. Somehow, I am not used to it yet, but I feel enlightened. Thanks too for informing us all that black men and women are “the most physically masculine.” I had heard that gender was to a large degree a culturally bound construct, but I guess there IS a universal definition. I am kind of confused about how black women can be “masculine” and Korean men “feminine,” but since you have figured out this universal, I’ll take your word for it. But I am not sure why skin color is not part of your equation. Care to ellaborate?
Perhaps I missed it above, but many Korean women might also want to escape the traditional mold that’s been set for them in Korea, including modern versions of it. Many probably have multiple reasons, combining those listed above.
As for JK’s assertion about Korean women in Annandale who’re married to non-Korean men being either unattractive or perhaps mildly deranged; it’s called “rationalization.” I hope it helps. Probably a popular opinion among some, though.
#51, I’d take Woody Allen in a bare knuckle V Super Junior anyday.
#52 I don’t think I’d date a large man with gorilla arms who had a fake russian accent and passport, dressed very plainly and told me he did clerical work either.
Here’s the story of a Korean girl who eventually married a white guy.
I knew her in Korea, and we dated. We were banging regularly, but I took the relationship a LOT less seriously than she did.
She eventually wanted to come to the US, and I guess she always hoped I would be her ticket to America. But that just wasn’t gonna happen, and that was entirely my choice. Unfortunately, it also broke her heart (though I never once lied to her about my intentions).
Eventually, she came to the US on a student visa to study ESL. She couldn’t speak any English, so she decided that for her language training sake as well as for her visa, she would go where there weren’t many Koreans (for places like Tennessee, getting a student visa for a native Korean is VERY easy as opposed to places like NY and DC).
She had a look about her that I knew was gonna get a lot of white and black guys hitting on her. I could tell that that was gonna be her experience (being a North Carolina-raised kid where Asians were scarce but where I saw how not-so-attractive Asian women were constantly being hit on). When she once visited me in DC, I personally had to tell quite a few white, black, and Hispanic guys to back the f*ck away when they tried talking to her.
But I myself had no intentions of marrying her. At that period in my life, I dated like crazy….but I was (and still am) picky about who I marry. I’m sorry, but in addition to a good personality and a kind heart, the girl I marry has to have a pretty face and a good body. And this girl, um, fell a bit short, in my opinion, no matter how many white or black guys were interested in her. But yeah, I was banging her regularly.
Anyway, as soon as she arrived in the US in a town where there were few Koreans, she got hit on by white and black guys like I knew she would. Within a few months, her ESL teacher, this white dude who had once been an English teacher in Korea, asked her out and took care of her and kept the girl company when she had been so alone in the strange new country. Eventually, she got knocked up by him, and so they got married. Now, I believe the family is pretty happy together, and I wish her only the best.
BUT….my point for this story is to show that this was a case (and not that uncommon either) of a Korean girl who wanted to come to the US….and her first choice, an American guy like myself of Korean descent, didn’t want her as a wife. But she knew her strengths, that while her looks weren’t that attractive to me….they would be to many white and black Americans. She wanted to come to the US in large part (in her words) so that her kids would not have to go through the same educational system she did. That’s why she turned down the native Korean guys asking her out. But here I was, an American of Korean descent, to her the best of both worlds. But I wasn’t interested in marriage (with her). So after I rejected her idea of marriage, she went for the first guy in America that hit on her, a white guy, and her ESL teacher.
Now, based on this and similarly true stories can one conclude, Mcnut, that Korean girls marry Western guys simply because they are supposedly more masculine? I think not. As this true story illustrates, there are MANY factors involved.
JK: “As for the few Korean women I know of in this area who married Caucasian or black men….I am not saying this to be mean – seriously – but….they weren’t really, um, attractive.”
I appreciate the honesty here, and I have heard this from Koreans a lot. But it is this very sort of partitioning of people (even reality) in this very way that Koreans most likely wish to escape when and if they marry outside the race.
What I am saying is that your estimation of Koreans with non-Koreans is a game that is only taking place in your own head–and in the heads of like-minded people. It is totally divorced (no pun) from everything that matters in that relationship you (and Alex Lee) so quickly reduce to appearances.
Richardson, regarding #55. Yes, this is what I have seen for myself. Take it for what you will. I stand by what I said. And i never said the girls were “deranged”….just lacking in manners, i.e. rude.
BTW, what I wrote in #53 was merely a reply to Mcnut in #50 to show that his conclusion was too simple to be true based on my own, and others’, observations. But I guess you had no problems with his assertions but you did with mine. Fine, I hope it helps you feel better.
A likes B. B likes A. They date, possibly co-habitate and possibly end up getting married. I think the rationale for why people end up together is as simple as that – they find each other attractive for one reason or antoher.
Who cares if A and B are a white/asian, korean/arab, persian/white, green/blue gay/hetrosexual couple as long as they are happy. Frankly, it’s no one’s business.
Any attempt to inject asinine theories as to why certain subset of a race “generally” find another subset attractive leads me to believe that he/she can’t get laid and is trying to find some rationale as to why he/she is not a loser.
Alethia wrote:
“I appreciate the honesty here, and I have heard this from Koreans a lot. But it is this very sort of partitioning of people (even reality) in this very way that Koreans most likely wish to escape when and if they marry outside the race. ”
Geez, I was addressing mcnut’s overly simple assertion that Korean women marry Western men simply because Western men are supposedly more masculine by addressing other factors…and you and Richardson are all up in arms with my reply to Mcnut…but not to what Mcnut wrote, even though I find his conclusion plain out wrong (and tried to show HOW it was wrong by illustrating the many other factors that are often at play). Can we say “double standards”?
JK: “Geez, I was addressing mcnut’s overly simple assertion that Korean women marry Western men simply because Western men are supposedly more masculine by addressing other factors…”
How hard is that to disagree with? One whacked comment doesn’t deserve an equally ridiculous one. I wasn’t “up in arms”, just scratching my head.
JK,
Point taken, by the way. I don’t get Mcnut’s comment either. Peace.
JK,
Yes, I’m sure you will stand by what you said, hence “rationalization.”
I didn’t catch McNut’s comment as I skimmed down, as alluded to in my comment.
I don’t have to respond to everyone I disagree with, and not responding to a comment does not indicate agreement, which would be a moronic standard. I did respond (which is far from “up in arms”) to your deluded statements. Get over it.
#57 – JK,
Wow. I wish you hadn’t posted that, because I just lost a ton of respect for you. I personally appreciated the yeoman work you did in defending Christians and Christianity against the heathen onslaught after the Saemmul group was kidnapped. But now here you are blithely telling us about a girl you had no intention of marrying but were “banging regularly.” (How gentlemanly of you—not only to do so, but also to make a public announcement of the fact.) Without a hint of remorse nor a whiff of cognitive dissonance. Wow.
Richardson, nothing deluded about my statement. Sorry if the truth hurts or if you label it “deluded” or a “rationalization”, but that’s your problem. The truth is the truth. I could lie and say that most of the Korean women I’ve seen in DC married to white and black guys that I have met here are really hot and so nice, just to make you feel more secure about yourself, but that would be a lie.
Ut Videam, oh trust me, I was quite the bad boy when I lived in Korea….and also when I returned to the US. Things have calmed down for me (out of choice), and I try to lead a good life now.
Uri, why so offended? Of course I’m talking generally, and of course there are many other factors involved in attraction – are you really that stupid that I needed to spell them out in numbered footnotes? Biology is not “superficial” – it matters, no matter how many Depak Chopra books or testaments you wank over. Pick up a science book someday or read some science journal articles. Here’s a start:
http://www.livescience.com/hea.....rules.html
I am kind of confused about how black women can be “masculine” and Korean men “feminine,” but since you have figured out this universal, I’ll take your word for it.
I said “more” masculine and “more” feminine. That means its relative, idiot. A mouse is bigger than a cricket – an elephant is smaller than a whale. That doesn’t mean a mouse is anywhere near as big an elephant does it? Black women have more testosterone, on average, than white women and asian women. Asian men, on average, less than white men and black men. FACT. Use google to look it up, if you can’t I’ll help you. If you’re offended by facts, that’s your problem, not mine. Just spare me your sarcastic outrage in future.
The fact is, black, white and asian people are physically different – not better or worse – and these differences often play a part in the science of attraction. Get it?
Care to ellaborate?
When you learn how to read and spell.
#65-UT
I am going out on a limb here by thinking that you are of the conservative bent. Some people enjoy copious amounts of physical activity without contemplating marriage.
I have to come to the defense of JT here. Don’t hang the guy for being honest about something that 90% of the male population would consider a quite favorable circumstance.
Why would he have a hint of cognitive dissonance regarding two completely unrelated subjects?
I am amazed that you are “wowed” by this.
#32, #28. As far as I know, Mr.Breen will be at a wedding i’m attending in 2 weeks. Hope to see a few more articles by him. Breenwatch
Hey, how about some interesting stories, huh? I’ll start:
When I was a freshman in college, I met a Haitian girl with striking looks that had an intimidating quality to it, who was very friendly. Her ambition was to be a patent lawyer. She kept telling me that she “liked to drink”. But I never carried it any further beyond just friends because I was a clueless fuck whose head was wrapped up in other things besides pussy. In later years, this was a source of regret.
Years later, I met another Haitian girl at NYU. She was very friendly, a really engaging “people-person” type. We dated for a while and one night I brought her back to my place. We ended up in bed but she got very hesitant about it. She questioned my motives about wanting to have sex with her and wondered if I was doing it to fulfill some “exotic black girl fetish.” We ended up sleeping together but no sex.
We remained friends, nonetheless. She invited me to a party where I met a Jamaican girl, who happened to be her friend. She was really fine and there was some white guy there who seemed interested in her also. She got restless, wanted to dance, and asked me if I wanted to dance with her, which I did. She had done all kinds of jobs, ranging from modeling to working in massage places. She really liked Korean oxtail soup and hot spicy tobokki and I learned that some Korean food was similar to Carribean soul food. She used to rag on Jamaican men, saying that they’re very promiscuous. Some random Asian women would cast evil-eye stares at us whenever they saw us in the streets but I paid it no mind. Neither did she because black women are used to all kinds of bullshit from day one and evil-eyed Asian women in the streets are the least of their worries. Trouble started when she started mentioning about meeting my family and even coming to my church, which is all Koreans. I just couldn’t see that going well. I hadn’t thought about it much until she brought it up. I wasn’t mature enough to be able to handle the inevitable bullshit and I didn’t want her going through it either.
I met a white girl from central Jersey online which started as a “friends with benefits” which later evolved into a relationship. I don’t know about other people, but I find it difficult to not get emotionally attached to someone I’m fucking. She had the type of physique that black and hispanic guys usually prefer, which is big ass and big tits. I don’t mind that either. Often I noticed black guys checking her out in the streets but I didnt care as long as they didnt cause trouble. She developed taste for sappy Asian soap dramas. There was one in particular, a Japanese one called “Long Vacation”, which she especially liked, and introduced her family to it. Her whole family got absolutely hooked on it, even her father, who is a big gruff no-nonsense type of man who used to be in military intelligence. The idea of someone like him hooked on a sappy J-Drama was hilarious for the both of us. Through K-drama, she discovered the word “oppa” and started calling me that. Her aunt asked if she had to call me that also. She said no but her aunt wanted to call me something also so she called me “oppie” or sometimes “opus”.
I once dated an older Puerto Rican woman who lived in the Bronx, looked vaguely Italian, who said she was tired of constantly getting hit on by “ignorant goombas and wiseguy wannabees”. She believed that she was an Asian woman in a previous life. She told me that her fantasy was to be a call girl for older, rich Asian men and eventually snag one in marriage. How I figured in that picture, I have no idea. She said that the shape of my ear was such that I was a type prone to cheating with other women. She was extremely racist, especially toward Jews, and seemed to have no problems expressing such beliefs in my presence, even though it kinda disturbed me. But I mostly ignored it because she didnt openly express it in front of other people and frankly, well, I enjoyed porking her.
There’s more but I’ve written enough. BTW, I’ll bet I’m more masculine than 10 expats from the Marmots Hole put together, especially the ones with the fancy social Darwinist eugenics theories.
I don’t know. I’m new here to this blog somewhat, but I have some experiences in this intricate issue of korean-foreign romantic interaction.
I’ve gone back and forth to Korea multiple times. I’m a Korean adoptee and know a little Korean. When I go to Seoul, I stay in Hongdae with some of my adoptee friends. So I (and my friends) have unique experiences that I think are a bit different than the expats and other korean-americans on this board. It’s a little different b/c adoptees are culturally western, but ethnically korean. So I actually recognize a lot of the experiences that both sides of the argument have posted above.
First of all, I’m 6 foot, 205 lbs and bench press 335 lbs. I also run 6 miles everyday (sorry I don’t know metric!) I’m not saying I’m the buffest guy ever (I actually consider myself short in America as there are tons of buff guys around) But in Korea, I swear, I’m the largest motha around. 6 foot isn’t that tall right? But on the subway, clubs, bars, etc, so many people stare at me b/c I’m just so much bigger and stronger than everyone.
The point is: when I go clubbing, dating or just meeting new koreans, girls AND guys always go crazy. They always ask if I have girlfriend and want to touch my arms, etc. I feel that my experience may validate some people who say masculinity may be large factor.
I’m a grad student, so I look at it as an experiment. It appears if you apply masculinity to separate ethnicities (control and exp. population), you get the same reaction. Thus, it may implicate masculinity as a contributing factor.
I don’t know. I’m also told by my korean girl friends that they like that I’m korean-looking, but also american-cultured. So yes it does give me extra benefits with women in korea. HOWEVER, for long term, they are really comfortable with korean-korean b/c of language. They feel more able to fully express themselves too.
So I think there are benefits/drawbacks to both sides. So to conclude, I guess I really didn’t come to a conclusion. Although, race, class, masculinity may be factors, I tend to think it depends upon the two individuals involved.
@70 Net Kim:
Uh, thanks for sharing. :0
@71 Andru:
You sound yummy. :b I see an American flag by your username. Gotta girlfriend?
hardy har har. #72
Very funny.
In most of Asia ex-Japan, the most important thing in a man’s pants is his wallet, I’ve been told time and again.
netizen kim, use condoms, practice safe sex.
And, remember that certain stds require life long treatment.
there are excellent reasons to practice some restraint.
i think you’re supposed to become emotionally attached to someone you’re having sex with.
guess why people get their lids blown off when hubby comes back home finding his wife with another man in bed.
be careful.
I saw nothing but a sad creature when I confirmed that yes, the diag is herpes.
yes, the diag is HIV, etc, etc.
Thanks to JK and NetKim sharing their sexual exploits, this thread has inched ever so close to English Spectrum territory. The difference being that those telling the shag stories are not white.
Something that maybe only I am curious about (and since NetKim brought up the word): Non-Korean guys, how many times have you been called “oppa” by Korean women? Perhaps the more appropriate question is how many Korean women have called you “oppa”? And I don’t mean the girls working in the 단란주점. Usually women just use my name, but I’ve gotten it twice in the past four months or so. I must say I kind of dig it.
@#73: I was half-joking. Not a tremendous selection of big mothas where I live in Hooterville. If you’re ever in DC, give me a shout. I’ve started a strength training program, and I’d love it if you could come to my apartment and give me some pointers. My workout gear’s located in my bedroom. Really.
Wow, it seems a lot of us live in the greater DC area, huh?
I was just kidding too, sonagi. I actually used to weigh 280 (like super fat). I started lifting b/c of health reasons actually, then just got addicted. So I’ve always been large, but in my early life it wasn’t in a good way.
Considering my and my brother’s life experiences, I can’t say that America is a priori anti-Asian as far as the males go. It’s been the land of opportunity indeed. But I think it depends on who you are and who you hang out with. I could write a novel about American life and Asian guys and the kinds of hookups that are likely to happen, especially if one’s circle of friends consists of Puerto Ricans, Italians, and Jaimaicans, and if one lives in an area where the girls are “loose” in some moral sense. Opportunities are there – and sometimes girls go out of their way to let you know it- or get their girlfriends to let you know it (especially when one is ultra shy like I might be). I’ve never felt actually disadvantaged for being asian and I’ve known too many Asian guys, through church or school, who were well socialized and integrated in American life, that it’s difficult to take this topic too seriously even if it seems to be a popular one among Asian Americans. I concede.
That said, on an abstract cultural level, if there is such a thing as ’social capital’ that’s transferred or gained from the way guys of one’s race are portrayed in mass media, its influence is minor in actual practice perhaps. But it certainly helps if the influence is not-negative. Also, it should be understood how profound this influence can be. It’s not just an interpersonal, interracial influence that helps determine the way peoples relate to each other. It can also shape and impinge on the way an individual relates to himself. And I think this latter is the awakening many Asian guys- including the masculine, rich ones- deal with and write against when they talk about American media or such.
Andru,
335lbs isn’t that impressive (that’s what I use as a warm up) …but since you run a lot, that’s actually quite good. If you cut down on jogging (say 2 or 3 times a week instead of 7, or even just once a week) and added protein to your diet, you would gain quite a bit of muscle mass in about a month.
48, JK. So what you are saying is that it’s only the ugly ones who marry outside the tribe? I’d like to ask does everyone consider beauty as it is in the Korean sense to be beauty for your own sense and is this line of reasoning simply a way to write off girls who stray from the flock?
ps: To get wider glimpse of the “salience of race in romance”, mass media and its effects on the asian american psyche see this video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmK1T23p1Xw
And check out this study on Korean adoptees and their dating preferences:
http://www.uoregon.edu/~cress/....._paper.pdf
@82
I think all guys like the same thing–something different. When Westerners look at an Asian girl, they like features such as a small eyes or maybe a little darker skintone–because they are different from all the whitebread round-eyes they’ve seen every day of their lives back home. Meanwhile, the Korean guys tend to like their girls to have big big eyes and white white skin–different from the natural pre-op, pre-whitening cream look of the Korean girls who they’ve seen every day of their lives.
Same same but different.
A true difference though is that white girls aren’t going out and having eye-size reduction surgery to look Asian (maybe tanning is a different issue). Alex Lee probably blames those assholes in Hollywood for this.
For the folks who are posting their Playboy Letters here, please note that anecdotes are a poor substitute for data.
That is especially true since we don’t have any way to independently verify your great conquests. Now perhaps if you could provide links to some of these women talking about their roll in the hey with you (not all, just half or so), that would be a start to making your stories believable, although still useless statistically.
While we prattle on about a writer who’s “so bad he’s good” in his third successful publication of the same C- sophomore ethnic studies short paper — livened up by reported sexual exploits that, while gratuitous, nevertheless help demolish Alex’s work — the Marmot has overlooked several recent gems of Korean English media howlers:
CHOSUN on a commercial shoot by Jessica Alba and Lee Hyori. (imagine the hits, Robert!)
Their beauty managers took great pains to adorn the stars, who were competing for national pride. Their stylists each transported about 50 outfits to Canada, filling their hotel rooms with clothes like a boutique.
CHOSUN on the mixed-race lady who does the English voice on Seoul subway lines 1 to 4:
“My friends often tell me, ‘You look like an American, but your character is genuine Korean,’” she says. “I like Korean food — everything except dog meat and boiled silk worm. I love ddeokbokki” — a hot broiled dish of sliced rice cakes with assorted vegetables — “and panbroiled octopus with hot pepper. I make Korean food better than Western food.” She also likes soju, Korean distilled liquor, and Korean-style boilermaker better than wine and Western spirits.
KOREA TIMES on climate change
Korea’s four distinguishing seasons have been regarded as one of the attractions of the nation. But recent research suggests that the country is losing this charm due to global warming.
The gloomy forecast is based on research reports by weather experts who gathered in Seoul to attend the “Workshop for Experts of Climate Change,’’ held on Wednesday and Thursday.
According to the National Institute of Meteorological Research the nation will have shorter winters and longer summers.
@87
I particularly liked the chosun article about Hyolee and Alba:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....90006.html
Especially this keen observation:
“The two resemble each other in stature, shape, hair style and even healthy-looking copper skin tone.”
The picture directly above the quote shows the two girls posing, and I mistakenly saw that they have drastically different shapes, hair style, and skin color.
Anyway, hey rjkoehler.com, why not open up a thread this weekend dedicated to people’s sexual conquests? I bet there’s some pretty interesting stories.
JK, you are so right about Annandale, VA. Both the guys and girls are weird down there. Lucky thing it is still small and not anywhere near the size of LA Koreatown. I only go there to get my Korean BBQ fix and visit the bookstore every once in the while.
To answer Iceberg, as one “white” long-term expat, i’ve never been called “oppa” by a Korean woman, not even once.
Just not the brotherly type, i guess…
jk, you were basically doing what American Born Chinese do in Taiwan and mainland China.
not surprised you’re a Democrat.
Democrats tend to be liberals who try to cover up their misdeeds in life with some kind of pan altruistic humanism good.
I married fives times, but I saved the world from AIDS.
I have 15 children with 7 different mothers, but I established free health care for children.
I’m on my 9th wife, but hey, I’m anti-war, I want to help with the AIDS crisis in Africa, and I want to give my money for inner city schools.
guilt exists because sin exists.
griego, UT videam is wowed, because JK speaks Jesus but says he used to do the no-no for Christians, in his past.
He essentially took full advantage of her, for sex only.
Christians are put on their own high ground, so when they break their own standards, they are supposed to face more criticism from the public than other people.
It’s not fair, and who said it was?
Senator Craig got caught, and he probably is a bisexual.
But, look at him !
I’m not gay, blah, blah, blah, not in Idaho!
Resign, resign, resign, says his fellow Republicans, who get campaign funding from evangelical Christians.
If he was a Democrat, he would just come out and say, I’m sorry, and that be that.
Probably.
Look at Jesse Jackson. He’s a fake Christian. He uses his Rev title to do politics in the African American community.
When he got caught with fathering his campaign aid, he apologized.
But, vowed he will never, never, never step down from his civil rights political activist work.
that’s a Democrat.
not all, but a lot of them can’t help themselves, but yet have a grandiose plan to help other people and their lives.
Let’s ask a movie star who’s in and out of drug rehab on what US energy policy should be.
It’s probably a very green plan.
“48, JK. So what you are saying is that it’s only the ugly ones who marry outside the tribe? I’d like to ask does everyone consider beauty as it is in the Korean sense to be beauty for your own sense and is this line of reasoning simply a way to write off girls who stray from the flock?”
Aaronm, if a white male had said, based on his own observations, that a large percentage of white women in America who date and marry poor blue-collar African-American men are….not exactly skinny models nor are they raving beauties, would this observation be wrong? or would it be merely an observation? And suppose an African-American male who was with a white gf or wife (who may or may not fit this profile of being heavy and not that attractive), who had heard what the white male had said decided to ask the white male the same questions that you just asked me, that the white guy was simply “using a line of reasoning to write off girls who stray from the flock.” It still does not invalidate what the white guy has observed about these white women, no? The white guy will acknowledge that there are many exceptions…that there are hot thin attractive white women out there married to or dating poor, blue-collar African-American men….but that still does not take away from what he said that based on HIS observations where he lives, many of the white women dating poor, blue-collar African-American men are not neither skinny-like models….nor do they have model-like appearances.
That’s all. It’s all about what I have seen. Don’t shoot the observer.
The ‘get out of the PC room’ comment was dead-on. Bolster that with the manly Netizen Kim and Andru’s mentions that keeping themselves in shape gets them lots of action.
Yeah, Korean guys tend to start out a little smaller, but if they take the time and effort to put a little muscle on, non-Korean chicks will definitely go out with them. The couple of Asian-American guys I was friends with back home, who all worked out regularily, were contenders for any chick at a party. (Working out and being in shape naturally gives a guy a certain self-confidence too).
Contrast them with 98-pounds-soaking-wet Alex Lee and the regiment of matchstick men Asian-Americans who whine about, geez, not even our own women want us. Well of course not. If a woman wants another woman she’ll just go lesbian – she doesn’t need one of you for that.
I think women will tolerate a little chubbiness, but the skinny guy thing is a big turn-off. A lot of expat guys here are proof of that, no insult intended.
abcdefg. thanks for that article!
S.T.O.R.B!
Same Tire Old Racist Bullshit….like I think the ‘berg said…we’ll all be back to whatever we were doing and not even think about this tomorrow.
ROTFLMWAO
#68 – Griego,
What wowed me is that JK presented himself as a Christian and a strong defender of Christianity on one thread, and matter-of-factly discussed his frequent premarital dalliances on this one. Besides the contradiction itself (sex outside of marriage is considered immoral by just about every Christian confession), it doesn’t exactly bolster his credentials as a witness to the Gospel.
JK, not shooting, just asking. Not that I am comparing you to same, but the last time I saw that line of reasoning was on a blog of a white nationalist from the Australia First party. I’m sure you have first hand experience of the phenomenon, but what Andy Jackson said about anecdotes being less reliable than stats rings true. But here it’ll remain moot since there is no objective rating scale for things like beauty.
Re #39… I’m a black guy on the left side of the GQ curve, white chicks and korean chicks dig me… does this mean I win?
Andy Jackson, you mean you want a pure deconstructed deduced work on social theory. Hmmmnnn . . . I guess then a pure deconstructed duduced article would not really need comments. After all such a piece would then be factual not theoretical and should be included in social sciences. Oh yeah–I forgot, I simply use my five senses to view the world while you sit under a waterfall using your extrodinary parapschological abilites to catergorize human behavior quotients from individualy expressed DNA. I guess the faculty at Dartmouth found your redactive ability the highest of all? When you underwent your deconstructed search for the truth did you manage to see the face of God? How is he by the way?
I got laid once.really.i did i did i did.
“But since we’re in a deconstruction mood, why simply stop at race? Why not class? Or why not all male-female relationships, for certainly, the power relationship between man and woman has been unequal far longer than the relationship between East and West?”
Yeah, that’s correct. Full stop.
Inter-racial marriages aren’t the problem, international ones are.
Something else to throw into the discussion. The place where I am living is something like California in 1849. Where there is a resource to exploit, there are the exploiters, and then there are those who arrive to exploit the exploiters, i.e., prostitutes. They come primarily from China (NE), Russia and former Soviet states, and Africa. There are thousands. From all casual observations, it seems as if the Africans are the most sought after by the white ex-pats, with the Chinese occupying the bottom rung. Among the Chinese are some Korean Chinese, btw. A lot of this has to do with English language ability, or lack thereof, but personal preference aka dictates of the libido, plays into the mix. White males here comprise lots of Brits and other Europeans, and not that many Americans, but the preferences expressed do not seem all that different. What does this ultimately pathetic scene have to do with anything? I think, for one thing, it offers some contrary evidence to the high white-male/Asian female low white-male/African (can’t say American) female ratio cited earlier. Another is, that with white Russians (and those from former Soviet states) occupying the ‘middle-rung’, I think it is fair to say that matches all come down to a matter of being personal choices.
I think this what Andy Jackson wants written:
I think according to M. Read we can see similarities in how women from America choose exogamic relationships as a form of unconcious rule. Interestingly, when I visited the Yanomono tribe to do some research for my grad thesis, I still see generational stability that all cultures share and I believe Korea also shares this cutural impetus. Not that I am placing Koreans on the same developmental stage as the Amazonians but it is worth noting the sameness in what I might suggest to be “deliberate social engineering” . . . and blah, blah, etc.
Why yes, let us by all means deduce what cannot be deconstructed and deconstruct what cannot be deduced. Is there any other way to examine the question except through inferential primary material?
# 15:
“The linked piece also notes that there is no shortage of Asian-”American women for Asian-American guys because many of the white-Asian marriages are also INTERNATIONAL marriages. In other words, a lot of the Asian women married to white Americans are immigrants. Since there is no similar immigration of Asian grooms, Asian-American guys can breath a little easier.”
Certainly an important observation…
# 103:
“Inter-racial marriages aren’t the problem, international ones are.”
There clearly are important differences between the two concepts – but would you maybe care to elaborate why international marriages constitute a problem per se in your view ?
You should know that, over here in Europe, international interracial marriages (such as my own) are considered rather the norm than the exception, without many people finding this fact particularly problematic. My home country of Germany certainly has its fair share of Thai, Filipino/-a, Mexican, Colombian, Brazilian, Nigerian and Kenyan husbands and wives (married to German nationals) – but the immigration problem this country has rather lies with those immigrant groups who habitually introduce spouses of their own nationality and ethnic group into the country, not with those who are open-minded enough to marry outside their “tribes”. Because the dogged attempt to limit oneself in one’s choice of a mate to members of one’s own ethnic group is usually (though not invariably) indicative of low social intelligence, an unwillingness to integrate into the host society, and a strong tendency to commit crimes of violence…
fantasy, I have a little trouble taking your attestment that Germany may be more open to other races than the US.
Have you seen the film, Otomo, a German film produced in 1989?
your input on it?
“Have you seen the film, Otomo, a German film produced in 1989?”
WJK,
I am sorry to tell you that no, I haven’t.
I am afraid I cannot really comment on developments in Germany in the period between 1974 (when I left the country at the age of 9 so as to move to Hong Kong where my adoptive father had accepted a job as a sales engineer) and 2004 (when I finally returned to Germany after having spent 30 years abroad, most notably in Singapore, France, Britain, Canada and, finally, the ROK).
“I have a little trouble taking your attestment that Germany may be more open to other races than the US.”
WJK,
I did not mean to say that Germany is generally more open towards immigration than the US – that would indeed be an overstatement, although, the numerical ratio of immigrants towards locals is higher here than in the US (no kidding – I am suprised about this, as well, but I got the figures from German government stats).
I was rather referring to the topic of openness of German society towards international interracial marriages, which seem to be regarded as a problem by certain groups in the US.
In contrast, the (albeit rather belated, primarily post-1990) appearance of this type of marriage as a mass phenomenon in Germany (and elsewhere in Europe) does, indeed, testify to the profound mental change that this country has undergone since 1945, from a nation obsessed with racial purity to a nation that regards racial purity as more or less akin to inbreeding and as a sure path towards the reinforcement of genetic defects which are, naturally, more prevalent among the offspring of monoracial than of interracial couples.
Thus the international interracial marriage is, indeed, largely welcomed here, as it is seen as a contribution to the refresment of the genetic pool, as well as as the prime path towards the integration of an immigrant (m/f).
And, believe it or not, whiteness is definitely no longer an asset here, neither in the job market, nor in the housing market, and even less in the marriage market. Non-Whites are frequently preferred, provided their linguistic ability is up to scratch.
On the other hand, I am certainly prepared to admit that immigrants who, for whatever reason, introduce spouses from their home countries into Germany, or limit their choice of a spouse to members of their own ethnic group among the residents of this country, are not infrequently subject to harassment, even by those Germans who are not connected to the Neo-Nazi scene. There is definitely more tolerance in this respect in the US…
To put it bluntly, even at the peril of attracting heavy criticism:
I (and most others here) cordially welcome immigrants who are willing to marry German women, as they are likely to integrate well into this country, but we are generally sceptical with regard to the integration of immigrants who are staunchly committted to marrying women of their own race, culture and nationality. There are, of course, exceptions but usually these people are not really prepared to contribute to and identify with their chosen country of residence, i.e. Germany.
And, btw, German women, in their overwhelming majority, love to marry immigrant men, provided these are open enough to consider them marriage material, as the immigrants are generally regarded here as more handsome and virile than the members of the indigenous population. So the chances are definitely there, immigrants just have to seize them…
But adherence to the Islamic way of life may, of course, well prove to be an insurmountable obstacle to a successful courtship…
We moved from Germany to Korea. Now it is my turn to live as an immigrant.
But what strucked me today: I spoke to some Pakistani, here in Korea.
They got Korean citizenship. They are speaking Korean well. They are living here. Their wifes became muslims. Refusing to eat pork meat.
One Pakistani told me that he enjoys living in Korea. In Pakistan there are too many restrictions.
It was weird, we were talking about religion, Korean citizenship, how to master the language test and we were looking through the open doors of the ‘Asian Restaurant’ at the curious Korean bypassers. And the wifes are not the ones who are hiding in the kitchen. But they are adding the Kimchi to the Indian dish we had today.
Jens-Olaf, that was observationally kinda beautiful. Poetic, really.
How did this tripe get resuscitated?
Sorry Railwaycharm, didn’t mean to contaminate your blog. Someone actually wrote something pertinant about people assimilating here in Korea and you come out snarling. Go back to bed. I’m sure it will be buried by morning.
I think by “tripe” Railwaycharm meant Jens-Olaf’s “poetic observations”, not your ironic comment regarding them.
Railway can be a little bit rough at times, but I am staunchly convinced he is a good guy at heart…
I wasn’t being ironic. I really like the picture he painted, a hybrid where all is commingled, respected and retained. There is not arrogance but delight and an enlightened perspective. Read it again.
Guys, I was speaking to the tired rhetoric of the thread. It was not an attack on #109 or #110. As to the not sleeping comment, chalk it up to all of the white privilege I am enjoying in Korea.
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