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	<title>Comments on: BREAKING NEWS : Blue House Announces Hostage Release</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-105047</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-105047</guid>
		<description>Herod wrote:
"JK, 
"You might want to check real current sources, and not just assume that your friends and relatives would have informed you that they registered their degrees!"

Herod, you are so ignorant.  *Sigh*

Tonight over dinner, I asked my father if he had ever registered with any "Korea Research Foundation" after he got his Ph.D in America (in the 1960s when he was still a Korean citizen and before I was born).  The answer was a clear no.  Apparently he had never even HEARD of a "Korea Research Foundation."

I guess, Herod, you could argue and insist that he still did register based on some little article you pulled up.  But you would be wrong (as usual).   My father was like most Koreans who came to the US in the 1960s and early 1970s who came to the US to get their Ph.Ds and who eventually were offered professorships at American universities (due to the DEMAND for their skills that were apparently lacking in the US at the time):  THEY DIDN'T REGISTER WITH ANY "KOREA RESEARCH FOUNDATION"!!!

Crap, and I thought native Koreans were the ones who stubbornly insisted that their negative (and usually incorrect) stereotypes about other people (especially Americans) were accurate.  Many of the Western expats on this very blog are no better in regards to what they say about Koreans!  People like Herod will pull up some article from some newspaper and go "Ah hah!  This proves that Koreans are a screwed up people!  Look at the percentage of Ph.Ds who registered at the 'Korea Research Foundation' who got their studies in Christian Studies!"  Then when someone like me goes, "Uh, that number is suspect since I doubt most Koreans who got their Ph.Ds in America registered with any foundation.  Most never even HEARD of the foundation."  Then you, Herod, CONTINUE to insist that you are right and that my family and Korean friends who did get their Ph.Ds in America DID register with the "Korean Research Foundation" but just didn't inform me of it just so that you can stick stubbornly to your point that Koreans are screwed up.  

But take comfort, Herod....you're not the first person on this blog to do that.  It was once implied by a commenter on this blog that I might have cheated on my SATs because I did pretty well, compared to my American classmates, on them.  The fact that I had studied hard for YEARS for the SATs was ignored, and the commenter then put up a link that showed that many Koreans in Korea cheated on their college entrance exams (and what this had to do with me, a US-born citizen who just happens to be of Korean descent, is beyond me).  It's like many of the Western expats on this board want to look at the news about Korea with a selective eye and make assumptions based on them about all Koreans and all Korean-Americans.  So now Herod insists he's right and that my father and others like him DID register with this little "Korea Research Foundation" even though my father himself told me he did no such thing....and another commenter several months ago implied I, an American of Korean descent, had cheated on my SATs....because there just happened to a recent article in a newspaper about cheating by high school students in Korea.

Now what, Herod???  Are you STILL gonna insist you are right and that my father and other Koreans DID register with your stupid little "Korean Research Foundation" but forgot that they did?  You are unbelievable.

You are truly stubborn and silly.....and just as bad as those Koreans who choose to believe the worst about Americans based on selected articles they read in the papers.  When I lived in Korea, I used to HATE it when Koreans would say, "Americans do this or that (usually something negative)."  When I would correct them and tell them they were wrong, the Koreans I was talking with would say, "But I saw it in this article here from this American paper" and would show me some article about some growing problem (like how more American kids are engaging in violence or drug-taking....which the Koreans took to mean that EVERY American was doing it....which was far from the truth).

So be careful in your selective reading of news in Korea....and don't do it to confirm your own previously reached negative conclusions about an entire race....got it, Herod??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herod wrote:<br />
&#8220;JK,<br />
&#8220;You might want to check real current sources, and not just assume that your friends and relatives would have informed you that they registered their degrees!&#8221;</p>
<p>Herod, you are so ignorant.  *Sigh*</p>
<p>Tonight over dinner, I asked my father if he had ever registered with any &#8220;Korea Research Foundation&#8221; after he got his Ph.D in America (in the 1960s when he was still a Korean citizen and before I was born).  The answer was a clear no.  Apparently he had never even HEARD of a &#8220;Korea Research Foundation.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess, Herod, you could argue and insist that he still did register based on some little article you pulled up.  But you would be wrong (as usual).   My father was like most Koreans who came to the US in the 1960s and early 1970s who came to the US to get their Ph.Ds and who eventually were offered professorships at American universities (due to the DEMAND for their skills that were apparently lacking in the US at the time):  THEY DIDN&#8217;T REGISTER WITH ANY &#8220;KOREA RESEARCH FOUNDATION&#8221;!!!</p>
<p>Crap, and I thought native Koreans were the ones who stubbornly insisted that their negative (and usually incorrect) stereotypes about other people (especially Americans) were accurate.  Many of the Western expats on this very blog are no better in regards to what they say about Koreans!  People like Herod will pull up some article from some newspaper and go &#8220;Ah hah!  This proves that Koreans are a screwed up people!  Look at the percentage of Ph.Ds who registered at the &#8216;Korea Research Foundation&#8217; who got their studies in Christian Studies!&#8221;  Then when someone like me goes, &#8220;Uh, that number is suspect since I doubt most Koreans who got their Ph.Ds in America registered with any foundation.  Most never even HEARD of the foundation.&#8221;  Then you, Herod, CONTINUE to insist that you are right and that my family and Korean friends who did get their Ph.Ds in America DID register with the &#8220;Korean Research Foundation&#8221; but just didn&#8217;t inform me of it just so that you can stick stubbornly to your point that Koreans are screwed up.  </p>
<p>But take comfort, Herod&#8230;.you&#8217;re not the first person on this blog to do that.  It was once implied by a commenter on this blog that I might have cheated on my SATs because I did pretty well, compared to my American classmates, on them.  The fact that I had studied hard for YEARS for the SATs was ignored, and the commenter then put up a link that showed that many Koreans in Korea cheated on their college entrance exams (and what this had to do with me, a US-born citizen who just happens to be of Korean descent, is beyond me).  It&#8217;s like many of the Western expats on this board want to look at the news about Korea with a selective eye and make assumptions based on them about all Koreans and all Korean-Americans.  So now Herod insists he&#8217;s right and that my father and others like him DID register with this little &#8220;Korea Research Foundation&#8221; even though my father himself told me he did no such thing&#8230;.and another commenter several months ago implied I, an American of Korean descent, had cheated on my SATs&#8230;.because there just happened to a recent article in a newspaper about cheating by high school students in Korea.</p>
<p>Now what, Herod???  Are you STILL gonna insist you are right and that my father and other Koreans DID register with your stupid little &#8220;Korean Research Foundation&#8221; but forgot that they did?  You are unbelievable.</p>
<p>You are truly stubborn and silly&#8230;..and just as bad as those Koreans who choose to believe the worst about Americans based on selected articles they read in the papers.  When I lived in Korea, I used to HATE it when Koreans would say, &#8220;Americans do this or that (usually something negative).&#8221;  When I would correct them and tell them they were wrong, the Koreans I was talking with would say, &#8220;But I saw it in this article here from this American paper&#8221; and would show me some article about some growing problem (like how more American kids are engaging in violence or drug-taking&#8230;.which the Koreans took to mean that EVERY American was doing it&#8230;.which was far from the truth).</p>
<p>So be careful in your selective reading of news in Korea&#8230;.and don&#8217;t do it to confirm your own previously reached negative conclusions about an entire race&#8230;.got it, Herod??</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103815</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103815</guid>
		<description>"Our government humiliated itself by dealing with fundamentalists"...and the Taliban.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Our government humiliated itself by dealing with fundamentalists&#8221;&#8230;and the Taliban.  <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: The Western Confucian</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103770</link>
		<dc:creator>The Western Confucian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103770</guid>
		<description>The link to the above:

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&#38;art=10166&#38;size=A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link to the above:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&amp;art=10166&amp;size=A" rel="nofollow">http://www.asianews.it/index.p.....amp;size=A</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Western Confucian</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103769</link>
		<dc:creator>The Western Confucian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103769</guid>
		<description>Mgr Lazarus You Heung-sik, Catholic Bishop of Taejŏn, suggests it may have been the Presbyterians, not the goverment, who paid ransom:

&lt;em&gt;"[T]he release of Protestant missionaries has set a dangerous precedent. Our government humiliated itself by dealing with fundamentalists. Now they can think they can do the same with other hostages. At the same time, the agreement humiliated Protestant Churches who have been much criticised at home for their action abroad and for the ransom many think they paid."&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mgr Lazarus You Heung-sik, Catholic Bishop of Taejŏn, suggests it may have been the Presbyterians, not the goverment, who paid ransom:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;[T]he release of Protestant missionaries has set a dangerous precedent. Our government humiliated itself by dealing with fundamentalists. Now they can think they can do the same with other hostages. At the same time, the agreement humiliated Protestant Churches who have been much criticised at home for their action abroad and for the ransom many think they paid.&#8221;</em></p>
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		<title>By: TomCoyner</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103729</link>
		<dc:creator>TomCoyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103729</guid>
		<description>Korean evangelical Protestant Christianity has quite rightly taken on a great deal of censure within S Korea as a result of this episode. But I think it is fairer to say that the recklessness of these hostages’ initial undertaking is generally representative of an over-competitive S Korea in general.  The obsession for social status – the climbing of the social pecking order – within the world’s most Confucian society that today lacks universal standards of social status only promotes this kind of nonsense.

 

While we may seem some serious soul searching following the safe return of the last of the hostages, I doubt mass self-reflection will be deep or wide enough to consider the ultimate causes for modern Koreans to launch themselves into risky, prestigious activities.  

In other words, we may expect less risky, prestige-based evangelism, but we can still expect to find Koreans getting themselves caught in often dangerous schemes as they seek to prove they are better – or at least, not inferior – to the bulk of the pack</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Korean evangelical Protestant Christianity has quite rightly taken on a great deal of censure within S Korea as a result of this episode. But I think it is fairer to say that the recklessness of these hostages’ initial undertaking is generally representative of an over-competitive S Korea in general.  The obsession for social status – the climbing of the social pecking order – within the world’s most Confucian society that today lacks universal standards of social status only promotes this kind of nonsense.</p>
<p>While we may seem some serious soul searching following the safe return of the last of the hostages, I doubt mass self-reflection will be deep or wide enough to consider the ultimate causes for modern Koreans to launch themselves into risky, prestigious activities.  </p>
<p>In other words, we may expect less risky, prestige-based evangelism, but we can still expect to find Koreans getting themselves caught in often dangerous schemes as they seek to prove they are better – or at least, not inferior – to the bulk of the pack</p>
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		<title>By: WangKon936</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103575</link>
		<dc:creator>WangKon936</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 19:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103575</guid>
		<description>Eh, I don't think they are idiots for GOING to Afghanistan... They were idiots for traveling AROUND Afghanistan in a bright, shiny, unguarded bus in a particularly BAD part of the neighborhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh, I don&#8217;t think they are idiots for GOING to Afghanistan&#8230; They were idiots for traveling AROUND Afghanistan in a bright, shiny, unguarded bus in a particularly BAD part of the neighborhood.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103504</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103504</guid>
		<description>Oh, and just to clarify for those who would impute some sort of wish to see the hostages die to my above statement...  I'm glad that the hostages (most of them) are coming back alive.  I don't really disapprove of the deal the SK government made.  I &lt;i&gt;still think&lt;/i&gt; the hostages were a bunch of idiots for going to Afghanistan in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and just to clarify for those who would impute some sort of wish to see the hostages die to my above statement&#8230;  I&#8217;m glad that the hostages (most of them) are coming back alive.  I don&#8217;t really disapprove of the deal the SK government made.  I <i>still think</i> the hostages were a bunch of idiots for going to Afghanistan in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Zonath</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103499</link>
		<dc:creator>Zonath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103499</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;3. South Korean NGOs will leave Afghanistan(by the end of August)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nice, so because of a handful of irresponsible missionaries, the people who might actually be doing some real humanitarian work have to get out of dodge.  Can I get a praise Jesus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>3. South Korean NGOs will leave Afghanistan(by the end of August)</p></blockquote>
<p>Nice, so because of a handful of irresponsible missionaries, the people who might actually be doing some real humanitarian work have to get out of dodge.  Can I get a praise Jesus?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103418</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103418</guid>
		<description>#66 Western Confucian:


"....if the Taliban were Evil incarnate, how could they have been the good guys in Rambo 3 and for the Reagan Administration? Ever wonder why the nonsense term jihadi (for “one who wages jihad”) was created to replace the correct term mujahadin, which [we?] were told meant “freedom fighter” in the ’80s?"

The Taliban as a formal organization did not exist during the 80's (Reagan administration ended in 1989, Rambo III 1988; BTW I recommend you not cite "Rambo" movies as a source of your historical knowledge if you are interested in having any credibility as to assertions of what knowledgeable Americans consider that their US military can and cannot do). 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan_since_1992 

The replacement of the "positive" term "mujahideen" by the "negative" one "jihadi" seems to me an accurate reflection of reality on the ground, rather than some sort of sinister manipulation of "us" plebians by the dark forces of the Reagan-Bush administration (that is what you are implying right?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#66 Western Confucian:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;.if the Taliban were Evil incarnate, how could they have been the good guys in Rambo 3 and for the Reagan Administration? Ever wonder why the nonsense term jihadi (for “one who wages jihad”) was created to replace the correct term mujahadin, which [we?] were told meant “freedom fighter” in the ’80s?&#8221;</p>
<p>The Taliban as a formal organization did not exist during the 80&#8217;s (Reagan administration ended in 1989, Rambo III 1988; BTW I recommend you not cite &#8220;Rambo&#8221; movies as a source of your historical knowledge if you are interested in having any credibility as to assertions of what knowledgeable Americans consider that their US military can and cannot do). </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan_since_1992" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.....since_1992</a> </p>
<p>The replacement of the &#8220;positive&#8221; term &#8220;mujahideen&#8221; by the &#8220;negative&#8221; one &#8220;jihadi&#8221; seems to me an accurate reflection of reality on the ground, rather than some sort of sinister manipulation of &#8220;us&#8221; plebians by the dark forces of the Reagan-Bush administration (that is what you are implying right?)</p>
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		<title>By: Sonagi</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103345</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/28/breaking-news-blue-house-announces-hostage-release/#comment-103345</guid>
		<description>@#70 bumfromkorea:

&lt;i&gt;"Fair enough. Korean government was looking out for Korean people. How is that wrong? Or are you asking governments of the world to not prioritize their citizens’ lives?"&lt;/i&gt;

Nope.  Nothing wrong with a government putting the lives of its citizens first.  I was objecting to you and others painting the opposing stances of the Korean government and US government as reflecting different cultural values.

&lt;i&gt;"Security of Afghanistan? Surely you don’t imply that just because South Korean government decided not to bunker-buster bomb the #$^% out of where the Talibans (and the hostages) were or send in commandos Chuck Norris style, somehow that worsens the situation in Southern Afghanistan? I’m sorry to say this, but I wonder what the political impact of having 200 non-combatant soldiers (who were already on their way out) removed from a country where not even the main combatant nation isn’t investing most of their efforts into is. 

You also comment previously that what everyone here is upset about is the ‘possible’ occurrence of ransom for the hostages. What’s very interesting is that while this is a baseless speculation (near-approaching a conspiracy theory, if not that in the first place), a lot of people here (including, apparently, yourself) seems to have just accepted it as a fact (like Warren up there). Quite a display of hypocrisy, considering the usual criticism of ‘Korean assumption’."&lt;/i&gt;

There were earlier reports of an attempted Korean ransom payoff that failed and resulted in one of the hostages being shot.  Moreover, there was Korean government and media pressure on the US to negotiate with the Taliban on its demand for the release of Taliban prisoners.  Since there was no prisoner release and if there was no ransom payoff, then no, there is no threat to Afghanistan's security.  We do not know if there was in fact some payment, but it would be naive to take the Korean government's word for it.   As I recall, neither the Italian or Afghan governments has officially acknowledged the terms of the release of the Italian reporter.

The US did painstakingly negotiate for the release of the embassy hostages over a period of more than a year with the government of Iran.  

There is no assumption of a ransom payment on my part, bum.  Just a suspicion, not because the Korean government is involved but because of circumstances surrounding other hostage releases.  No hypocrisy.  Just reasonable skepticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@#70 bumfromkorea:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Fair enough. Korean government was looking out for Korean people. How is that wrong? Or are you asking governments of the world to not prioritize their citizens’ lives?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Nope.  Nothing wrong with a government putting the lives of its citizens first.  I was objecting to you and others painting the opposing stances of the Korean government and US government as reflecting different cultural values.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Security of Afghanistan? Surely you don’t imply that just because South Korean government decided not to bunker-buster bomb the #$^% out of where the Talibans (and the hostages) were or send in commandos Chuck Norris style, somehow that worsens the situation in Southern Afghanistan? I’m sorry to say this, but I wonder what the political impact of having 200 non-combatant soldiers (who were already on their way out) removed from a country where not even the main combatant nation isn’t investing most of their efforts into is. </p>
<p>You also comment previously that what everyone here is upset about is the ‘possible’ occurrence of ransom for the hostages. What’s very interesting is that while this is a baseless speculation (near-approaching a conspiracy theory, if not that in the first place), a lot of people here (including, apparently, yourself) seems to have just accepted it as a fact (like Warren up there). Quite a display of hypocrisy, considering the usual criticism of ‘Korean assumption’.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>There were earlier reports of an attempted Korean ransom payoff that failed and resulted in one of the hostages being shot.  Moreover, there was Korean government and media pressure on the US to negotiate with the Taliban on its demand for the release of Taliban prisoners.  Since there was no prisoner release and if there was no ransom payoff, then no, there is no threat to Afghanistan&#8217;s security.  We do not know if there was in fact some payment, but it would be naive to take the Korean government&#8217;s word for it.   As I recall, neither the Italian or Afghan governments has officially acknowledged the terms of the release of the Italian reporter.</p>
<p>The US did painstakingly negotiate for the release of the embassy hostages over a period of more than a year with the government of Iran.  </p>
<p>There is no assumption of a ransom payment on my part, bum.  Just a suspicion, not because the Korean government is involved but because of circumstances surrounding other hostage releases.  No hypocrisy.  Just reasonable skepticism.</p>
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