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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s the Language, Stupid?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  2 Dec 2008 22:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: 10DH</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101338</link>
		<dc:creator>10DH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 23:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101338</guid>
		<description>"Teenage kids sneering hellos in tones so contemptuous you can only laugh in amazement."

Oh, man, if I hear one more person say hello to me, I'm going to punch them in the face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Teenage kids sneering hellos in tones so contemptuous you can only laugh in amazement.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, man, if I hear one more person say hello to me, I&#8217;m going to punch them in the face.</p>
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		<title>By: French Quarter</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101297</link>
		<dc:creator>French Quarter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101297</guid>
		<description>#88

"...it was a mid-40s SNU grad...."

There are quite a few people pretending to be SNU graduates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#88</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;it was a mid-40s SNU grad&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are quite a few people pretending to be SNU graduates.</p>
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		<title>By: MigukNamja</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101293</link>
		<dc:creator>MigukNamja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101293</guid>
		<description>Re : 66

"There’s also no Starbucks in Kyungbokkung..."

"...And forget finding anything approaching an Egg McMuffin near Seoraksan."

I want to see Korea, not Disneyland. Visiting Korean cultural sites without being rudely assaulted by American marketing is more than fine by me.

I'll play contrarian ex-pat and vote that Korea is actually both an enjoyable place to visit and to live.

As a tourist, Koreans are at least "what you see is what you get" versus the "is this guy going to rip me off ?" Chinese or "smile-mask" Japanese. I will also echo the sentiment about Korea being a small country and thus easier to see the whole spectrum from urban to rural, to mountain and seashore, from man-made to natural, and from ancient (what's left of it, sadly) to more recent. The lack of English support is also just as bad, if not worse, in Japan and China, from my experience.

As for living here, I've met plenty of young punks, snobby princesses, cranky ajummas, and crazy adjoshis, but that's their problem - not mine. Also, the number of jaw-dropping friendly experiences has far outnumbered the bad ones.

Also, most of my friends are Korean males and we get along great in English or Korean, Western culture or Korean culture.

To put it into perspective, I have the spoiled luxury of living pretty much anywhere in Asia/Pac at my company's expense, yet my (Western) wife and I overwhelmingly continue to choose to live and raise our daughter here in Korea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re : 66</p>
<p>&#8220;There’s also no Starbucks in Kyungbokkung&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;And forget finding anything approaching an Egg McMuffin near Seoraksan.&#8221;</p>
<p>I want to see Korea, not Disneyland. Visiting Korean cultural sites without being rudely assaulted by American marketing is more than fine by me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll play contrarian ex-pat and vote that Korea is actually both an enjoyable place to visit and to live.</p>
<p>As a tourist, Koreans are at least &#8220;what you see is what you get&#8221; versus the &#8220;is this guy going to rip me off ?&#8221; Chinese or &#8220;smile-mask&#8221; Japanese. I will also echo the sentiment about Korea being a small country and thus easier to see the whole spectrum from urban to rural, to mountain and seashore, from man-made to natural, and from ancient (what&#8217;s left of it, sadly) to more recent. The lack of English support is also just as bad, if not worse, in Japan and China, from my experience.</p>
<p>As for living here, I&#8217;ve met plenty of young punks, snobby princesses, cranky ajummas, and crazy adjoshis, but that&#8217;s their problem - not mine. Also, the number of jaw-dropping friendly experiences has far outnumbered the bad ones.</p>
<p>Also, most of my friends are Korean males and we get along great in English or Korean, Western culture or Korean culture.</p>
<p>To put it into perspective, I have the spoiled luxury of living pretty much anywhere in Asia/Pac at my company&#8217;s expense, yet my (Western) wife and I overwhelmingly continue to choose to live and raise our daughter here in Korea.</p>
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		<title>By: Ut videam</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101144</link>
		<dc:creator>Ut videam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101144</guid>
		<description>#114 -

I'm not saying that at all. All I was suggesting is that a foreign tourist is far less likely to encounter such problems than a long-term resident who frequently appears in public in the company of a Korean companion. Thus resident foreigners' bad experiences in this regard—while deplorable in their own right—are not necessarily indicative of the problems facing Korean tourism, which was the topic of the original post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#114 -</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that at all. All I was suggesting is that a foreign tourist is far less likely to encounter such problems than a long-term resident who frequently appears in public in the company of a Korean companion. Thus resident foreigners&#8217; bad experiences in this regard—while deplorable in their own right—are not necessarily indicative of the problems facing Korean tourism, which was the topic of the original post.</p>
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		<title>By: Maddlew</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101140</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddlew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101140</guid>
		<description>Actually, travel and spontaineous romance do occur. Are you saying, "Come to Korea. Have fun, but show no interest in the female inhabitants?" 
When I was single traveling to Mexico, Costa Rica, Beliz or even Canada, the thought of meeting and having something meaningful with a woman residing in that country added optimism to my trip. Of course, when I was single I often hoped to find that very thing on a trip to the supermarket. 
I don't believe that putting a no flirting with the natives clause on men who travel to Korea is going to boost tourism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, travel and spontaineous romance do occur. Are you saying, &#8220;Come to Korea. Have fun, but show no interest in the female inhabitants?&#8221;<br />
When I was single traveling to Mexico, Costa Rica, Beliz or even Canada, the thought of meeting and having something meaningful with a woman residing in that country added optimism to my trip. Of course, when I was single I often hoped to find that very thing on a trip to the supermarket.<br />
I don&#8217;t believe that putting a no flirting with the natives clause on men who travel to Korea is going to boost tourism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ut videam</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101134</link>
		<dc:creator>Ut videam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101134</guid>
		<description>#112 -

True, but some of the "whiners" have missed the same larger point. Many of the bad experiences they relate are of the "hassled because I was in the company of a Korean woman (or Asian woman misidentified as Korean)" variety.

Aside from white males who visit here with their Asian-looking significant others, how many tourists are realistically going to run into this variety of problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#112 -</p>
<p>True, but some of the &#8220;whiners&#8221; have missed the same larger point. Many of the bad experiences they relate are of the &#8220;hassled because I was in the company of a Korean woman (or Asian woman misidentified as Korean)&#8221; variety.</p>
<p>Aside from white males who visit here with their Asian-looking significant others, how many tourists are realistically going to run into this variety of problem?</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101129</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101129</guid>
		<description>Young Rocco has a small point, but misses the larger one: This thread and these supposed whiners were talking about Korea as a place for TOURISTS and G. Bevers expressly said he thought the country was a fine place to live but a lousy place to visit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Young Rocco has a small point, but misses the larger one: This thread and these supposed whiners were talking about Korea as a place for TOURISTS and G. Bevers expressly said he thought the country was a fine place to live but a lousy place to visit.</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101125</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101125</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You faced dismal employment prospects at home, a bad family situation, a period of confusion in your life, or are just some college graduate looking to have a good time. Whatever your problem is, some employer in Korea rescued you from it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

None of it -- my employers were French and Dutch. And my current employer is French too, and I am regional manager, Asia, for this company. So nope, all wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You faced dismal employment prospects at home, a bad family situation, a period of confusion in your life, or are just some college graduate looking to have a good time. Whatever your problem is, some employer in Korea rescued you from it.</p></blockquote>
<p>None of it &#8212; my employers were French and Dutch. And my current employer is French too, and I am regional manager, Asia, for this company. So nope, all wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101124</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101124</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You need Korea a lot more than Korea needs you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Although I disagree with the "I need Korea" -- see the flag next to my name -- I am an in agreement with the fact that I wasn't needed in Korea, as was often reminded to me. Despite all the taxes I paid every month...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You need Korea a lot more than Korea needs you.</p></blockquote>
<p>Although I disagree with the &#8220;I need Korea&#8221; &#8212; see the flag next to my name &#8212; I am an in agreement with the fact that I wasn&#8217;t needed in Korea, as was often reminded to me. Despite all the taxes I paid every month&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: YoungRocco2</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101119</link>
		<dc:creator>YoungRocco2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/09/its-the-language-stupid/#comment-101119</guid>
		<description>Hugh: I've lived in Korea for over 11 years. It's so bad. Whine, whine, whine. 

dda: I lived in Korea for over 12 years. It's so bad. Whine, whine, whine. 

Gbevers: I've lived in Korea for over 15 years. It's so bad. Whine, whine, whine. 

Really, guys, just who do you think you're fooling? Korea is so bad that you decided to spend 12 years or more  of your lives here? Give me a break! Come on, folks. Actions speak louder than words. Your actions make it clear that, for you, Korea is a good place to be. You guys aren't migrant workers from third world countries who've come here to send remittances to your families. You're not here because the wages are twice as high as they are in your home country. You don't have to be here. You can leave whenever you want, yet you've chosen to stay. 

Again, cut the crap, guys. You need Korea alot more than Korea needs you. I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt that any of you three are scientists, engineers, or Fortune 500 CEO's--these are the people Korea actually needs. None of you have provided a service that some other bloke couldn't have provided in less than a heartbeat. I doubt any of you are doing something that is so valuable for Korea that you feel the need to stay here despite Korea's supposed shortcomings. Your presence adds nobility neither to Korea nor yourselves. If you don't like the place, do yourselves a favor and leave. 

Lay your cards on the table, guys. Everyone recognizes what is going on: Korea is, despite your most vehement denials, a place of refuge for you. You faced dismal employment prospects at home, a bad family situation, a period of confusion in your life, or are just some college graduate looking to have a good time. Whatever your problem is, some employer in Korea rescued you from it. Recognize this fact. Act accordingly. And you'll face alot less pent up rage and frustration.

Does this mean that you can't get angry when someone abuses you, unjustly? Am I advancing the claim that foreigners don't have a right to point out shortcomings in Korea's culture or way of life? Certainly, not. Your criticism is welcome. But you can't just talk the talk; you've got to walk the walk too--either walk away from Korea, or walk in a protest line and rally for change.   

There is a third option available too. You can always stay on this blog, whining and moaning--continuing to let out flaccid rage. No one's saying that you don't have a right to whine and complain. Hey, don't stop bellyaching and moaning on my account! You guys obviously need the therapy, so whine away. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh: I&#8217;ve lived in Korea for over 11 years. It&#8217;s so bad. Whine, whine, whine. </p>
<p>dda: I lived in Korea for over 12 years. It&#8217;s so bad. Whine, whine, whine. </p>
<p>Gbevers: I&#8217;ve lived in Korea for over 15 years. It&#8217;s so bad. Whine, whine, whine. </p>
<p>Really, guys, just who do you think you&#8217;re fooling? Korea is so bad that you decided to spend 12 years or more  of your lives here? Give me a break! Come on, folks. Actions speak louder than words. Your actions make it clear that, for you, Korea is a good place to be. You guys aren&#8217;t migrant workers from third world countries who&#8217;ve come here to send remittances to your families. You&#8217;re not here because the wages are twice as high as they are in your home country. You don&#8217;t have to be here. You can leave whenever you want, yet you&#8217;ve chosen to stay. </p>
<p>Again, cut the crap, guys. You need Korea alot more than Korea needs you. I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt that any of you three are scientists, engineers, or Fortune 500 CEO&#8217;s&#8211;these are the people Korea actually needs. None of you have provided a service that some other bloke couldn&#8217;t have provided in less than a heartbeat. I doubt any of you are doing something that is so valuable for Korea that you feel the need to stay here despite Korea&#8217;s supposed shortcomings. Your presence adds nobility neither to Korea nor yourselves. If you don&#8217;t like the place, do yourselves a favor and leave. </p>
<p>Lay your cards on the table, guys. Everyone recognizes what is going on: Korea is, despite your most vehement denials, a place of refuge for you. You faced dismal employment prospects at home, a bad family situation, a period of confusion in your life, or are just some college graduate looking to have a good time. Whatever your problem is, some employer in Korea rescued you from it. Recognize this fact. Act accordingly. And you&#8217;ll face alot less pent up rage and frustration.</p>
<p>Does this mean that you can&#8217;t get angry when someone abuses you, unjustly? Am I advancing the claim that foreigners don&#8217;t have a right to point out shortcomings in Korea&#8217;s culture or way of life? Certainly, not. Your criticism is welcome. But you can&#8217;t just talk the talk; you&#8217;ve got to walk the walk too&#8211;either walk away from Korea, or walk in a protest line and rally for change.   </p>
<p>There is a third option available too. You can always stay on this blog, whining and moaning&#8211;continuing to let out flaccid rage. No one&#8217;s saying that you don&#8217;t have a right to whine and complain. Hey, don&#8217;t stop bellyaching and moaning on my account! You guys obviously need the therapy, so whine away. <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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