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	<title>Comments on: Serendipity Approaches . . .</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: WangKon936</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99922</link>
		<dc:creator>WangKon936</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99922</guid>
		<description>I think the ultimate conclusion is that Hwang (or the team he assembled) had some talent, but Hwang himself was a very flawed man morally.

His major sins were of Greed and Pride.  Greed in that he wanted to claim more then he actually accomplished and Pride in the fact that he tried to cover it up and worse, reveled in all the attention.

In the genetics academic community, the cloning of human embryos is the holy grail.  Had Hwang just been happy with proving parthenogenesis and successfully cloning dogs, then he probably would of gotten the funding he so desired and his reputation would of remained intact.  With the funding and momentum from those two small, but at the same time huge steps, he may well be on his way to figuring out if human cloning was possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the ultimate conclusion is that Hwang (or the team he assembled) had some talent, but Hwang himself was a very flawed man morally.</p>
<p>His major sins were of Greed and Pride.  Greed in that he wanted to claim more then he actually accomplished and Pride in the fact that he tried to cover it up and worse, reveled in all the attention.</p>
<p>In the genetics academic community, the cloning of human embryos is the holy grail.  Had Hwang just been happy with proving parthenogenesis and successfully cloning dogs, then he probably would of gotten the funding he so desired and his reputation would of remained intact.  With the funding and momentum from those two small, but at the same time huge steps, he may well be on his way to figuring out if human cloning was possible.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99887</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 07:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99887</guid>
		<description>PS.  Any doubts?  Do I need to remind you of his grandstanding?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS.  Any doubts?  Do I need to remind you of his grandstanding?</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99886</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 07:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99886</guid>
		<description>"“In his 2004 paper, he and his co-authors addressed the possibility of parthenogenesis. They wrote that they couldn’t completely rule it out, but they presented evidence to support their claim of cloning.”"

In other words, he picked the most lucrative explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“In his 2004 paper, he and his co-authors addressed the possibility of parthenogenesis. They wrote that they couldn’t completely rule it out, but they presented evidence to support their claim of cloning.”&#8221;</p>
<p>In other words, he picked the most lucrative explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: abcdefg</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99873</link>
		<dc:creator>abcdefg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99873</guid>
		<description>The value of the science of Hwang rests on its efficacy as pure techne. If Hwang's procedures produce results (I'm still skeptical) then de facto he's succeeded. Hwang's interpretation of his results were off but at the same time they were not completely ignorant either as he anticipated the possibility of parthenogenesis, apparently, in his papre, as indicated in the Time piece here:

"In his 2004 paper, he and his co-authors addressed the possibility of parthenogenesis. They wrote that they couldn't completely rule it out, but they presented evidence to support their claim of cloning."

But, that said, I'm not jumping on any wankin wagon regardless. I have a lot of doubts about anything claimed in the paper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The value of the science of Hwang rests on its efficacy as pure techne. If Hwang&#8217;s procedures produce results (I&#8217;m still skeptical) then de facto he&#8217;s succeeded. Hwang&#8217;s interpretation of his results were off but at the same time they were not completely ignorant either as he anticipated the possibility of parthenogenesis, apparently, in his papre, as indicated in the Time piece here:</p>
<p>&#8220;In his 2004 paper, he and his co-authors addressed the possibility of parthenogenesis. They wrote that they couldn&#8217;t completely rule it out, but they presented evidence to support their claim of cloning.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, that said, I&#8217;m not jumping on any wankin wagon regardless. I have a lot of doubts about anything claimed in the paper.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Elgin</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99872</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Elgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99872</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The point of the article is that while Hwang and the boys were busy fabricating data that they FAILED TO RECOGNIZE an important research accomplishment staring them in the face.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes, this is an important distinction you have made.  His work may have produced results but at what expense to his profession and Korean scientists alike?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The point of the article is that while Hwang and the boys were busy fabricating data that they FAILED TO RECOGNIZE an important research accomplishment staring them in the face.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, this is an important distinction you have made.  His work may have produced results but at what expense to his profession and Korean scientists alike?</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99839</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99839</guid>
		<description>PS.  What Wang needs to do right now is concentrate on parthenogenesis and claim his previous paper was an honest mistake, regardless of whether it was or not.  It might not convince everyone, but at least it could salvage his career.  If he did succeed in producing parthenogenesis, it would be a shame, regardless of what he did, if someone else took credit for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS.  What Wang needs to do right now is concentrate on parthenogenesis and claim his previous paper was an honest mistake, regardless of whether it was or not.  It might not convince everyone, but at least it could salvage his career.  If he did succeed in producing parthenogenesis, it would be a shame, regardless of what he did, if someone else took credit for it.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99834</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 01:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99834</guid>
		<description>#2.

You don't know much about scientific research, do you?

So, let's entertain the idea that the conclusions of this paper are correct (it could still be wrong.  It needs to go through peer-review first), it wouldn't absolve Wang of all suspicion. Parthenogenesis and cloning are two very different things after all.  And, no, there is no proof that they 'failed to recognize an important research accomplishment staring them in the face' as Warren suggests. The inability to recognize a serendipitous moment may not have had anything to do with it, actually.  Producing a breakthrough in cloning research is far more prestigious than that of a breakthrough in parthenogenesis in the eyes of the general public, and therefore it is also far more lucrative, both financially and reputation-wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#2.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t know much about scientific research, do you?</p>
<p>So, let&#8217;s entertain the idea that the conclusions of this paper are correct (it could still be wrong.  It needs to go through peer-review first), it wouldn&#8217;t absolve Wang of all suspicion. Parthenogenesis and cloning are two very different things after all.  And, no, there is no proof that they &#8216;failed to recognize an important research accomplishment staring them in the face&#8217; as Warren suggests. The inability to recognize a serendipitous moment may not have had anything to do with it, actually.  Producing a breakthrough in cloning research is far more prestigious than that of a breakthrough in parthenogenesis in the eyes of the general public, and therefore it is also far more lucrative, both financially and reputation-wise.</p>
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		<title>By: tomojiro</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99832</link>
		<dc:creator>tomojiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99832</guid>
		<description>One thing is sure. He should receive a prize for his study. 

Yes, the Nobel prize.Not the one that you receive at Oslo, though, but this one which you receive at the Harvard University.
http://improbable.com/ig/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing is sure. He should receive a prize for his study. </p>
<p>Yes, the Nobel prize.Not the one that you receive at Oslo, though, but this one which you receive at the Harvard University.<br />
<a href="http://improbable.com/ig/" rel="nofollow">http://improbable.com/ig/</a></p>
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		<title>By: a-letheia</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99830</link>
		<dc:creator>a-letheia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99830</guid>
		<description>Half full or half empty:

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/techscience/2007/08/03/62/0601000000AEN20070802007400320F.HTML</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Half full or half empty:</p>
<p><a href="http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/techscience/2007/08/03/62/0601000000AEN20070802007400320F.HTML" rel="nofollow">http://english.yonhapnews.co.k.....0320F.HTML</a></p>
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		<title>By: Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99826</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/08/03/serendipity-approaches/#comment-99826</guid>
		<description>From the NY Times piece..

"NEW YORK (AP) -- Remember the spectacular South Korean stem cell fraud of a few years ago? A new analysis says the disgraced scientist actually did reach a long-sought scientific goal. It's just not the one he claimed.

The new study suggests Hwang Woo-suk and his team produced stem cells -- not through cloning as they contended -- but through a different process called parthenogenesis.

That, too, is an achievement scientists have long been pursuing."
..............................

The point of the article is that while Hwang and the boys were busy fabricating data that they FAILED TO RECOGNIZE an important research accomplishment staring them in the face.

There is nothing that vindicates "The Pride of Korea." He's still a punk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the NY Times piece..</p>
<p>&#8220;NEW YORK (AP) &#8212; Remember the spectacular South Korean stem cell fraud of a few years ago? A new analysis says the disgraced scientist actually did reach a long-sought scientific goal. It&#8217;s just not the one he claimed.</p>
<p>The new study suggests Hwang Woo-suk and his team produced stem cells &#8212; not through cloning as they contended &#8212; but through a different process called parthenogenesis.</p>
<p>That, too, is an achievement scientists have long been pursuing.&#8221;<br />
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>The point of the article is that while Hwang and the boys were busy fabricating data that they FAILED TO RECOGNIZE an important research accomplishment staring them in the face.</p>
<p>There is nothing that vindicates &#8220;The Pride of Korea.&#8221; He&#8217;s still a punk.</p>
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