Imported baked goods make the news

There was the recent spat in the Korean media regarding US beef.

Now, the Korean media has switched targets to imported baked goods. According to the Korean media, preprocessed imported (one media outlet specifically stated US-made) baked goods which are then baked and sold as pies, doughnuts, cookies, and pastries in Korean discount retail chains (BTW, MBC made it sound like a huge foreign owned retail store, read Costco, was the only one involved. They even had the reported report in front of a door clearly marked Costco) have trans fats of 3.2 ~ 5.7g per 100g.

However Korean baked goods are reported to have trans fats of 0.1 ~ 0.5g per 100g.

Also, the KFDA was kind of add that thanks to its efforts, Korean bakeries have reduced the amount of trans fats in its baked goods from a high of 1.7g to 0.3g today.

Personally, as a consumer, I do have the right to know what is in the stuff I eat. But as for the above baked goods issue goes, I believe the main issue should be whether or not the retail stores in question properly labeled and thus informed its customers on how much trans fats are in the baked goods they sold.

What it shouldn’t be is a us versus them thing plus trying to plant perceptions in peoples’ minds that imports are bad while domestic products are good.

58 Comments

  1. michael your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Trans fats, LOL people, how about french fry covered hot dogs?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/n.....057350611/

    No gov’t should be legislating the ingredients of food–if it is not already illegal or poisonous, let people decide if they want to buy it or not. Screw the nanny state.

  2. mins0306 your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    michael, those sure look yummy!!

    Where can I get them? :-D

  3. Wedge your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    I sure wouldn’t mind legislation against the copious amounts of sugar found in Korean baked goods. Why does my hamburger bun have to be sweet, for chrissakes?

  4. michael your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, fat is good! :)

    You can get those almost anywhere in Seoul–a lot of street vendors sell them along with the dokbokki and donuts and fried mandu and all the other health food :) Gotta let them cool off a little before you eat them or you’ll burn your mouth.

  5. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    I am suspicious of the nutritional info cited in the story. Next time you go to the supermarket, pick up a few boxes of cookies and read the label. Most snack foods imported into the US from Korea contain vegetable oil, which is probably hydrogenated in order to make it solid at room temperature. Ditto for frosting. Frosting on commercial baked goods is usually made from partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, or shortening, pure trans-fat. Good frosting and pastries are made from real butter, but that would be prohibitively expensive in Korea. The only substitute for shortening in pie crusts would be lard, which is what European and North American cooks used for centuries before William Proctor and James Gamble decided to remarket their industrial product as a healthy alternative to butter, lard, and tallow. To get around the trans-fat scare, US food manufacturers are substituting fractionated palm kernel oil and other chemically altered plant oils that do not contain trans-fats but are still very unhealthy.

    “No gov’t should be legislating the ingredients of food–if it is not already illegal or poisonous, let people decide if they want to buy it or not. Screw the nanny state.”

    Agreed, but I do appreciate the nanny state requiring clear and accurate labeling so that I may make choices as an informed consumer. Sneaky US food manufacturers get around consumer aversion to MSG by adding ingredients like autolyzed yeast extract and maltodextrin, which contain MSG. Food manufacturers have to list MSG on the label only if it is added directly to the product but not if it is a part of an ingredient. This includes products labeled “organic.” At least imported foodstuffs from Asia list MSG directly on the label.

    Frankly, I’ve grown sick of US Frankenfood culture and 90% of what I eat is whole foods, prepared with real spices and minimally processed seasonings like tamari soy sauce.

  6. tz247 your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    sweet hamburger buns? that’s nothing, why do my hot dog buns (when I can actually find them) have whip cream in them? And why is is I can easily buy a huge package of 20 hot dogs, but I can’t find buns anywhere (unless of course I want whip cream)? Baked goods in Korea suck, far too much sugar… and what’s with the corn on my plain pepperoni and cheese pizza?

  7. tz247 your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    … and don’t even get me started on the excessive packaging when you buy a box of cookies. 10 cookies and half a kilo of packaging to wrap it up

  8. Posted August 1, 2007 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like the ole alar nonsense in the offing once again. Years ago, US fruit, particularly apples, was banned from Korea because it allegedly had been treated with alar for pest control. My wife’s relatives who own acres of apples trees down south were delighted to have the competition removed from their own alar- treated product.

  9. sumo294 your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Very intriguing comment Songai. Your information checks out. Did not realize even a fifth of the issues you raised.

  10. michael your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Sonagi–labeling info yes, legislation of ingredients (except the obviously toxic) no.

  11. SomeguyinKorea your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    #3 Yeah, and potato chips that will give you cavities. I actually had a co-teacher try to argue with me that Koreans don’t like sweets.

  12. Posted August 1, 2007 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Sheesh…I read this article and all I can think is, “Mmmm…pastries….”

  13. Herod your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Ah, the packaging. Blame Japanese influence for that.

    BTW Koreans tend to think that spiciness is the only reason some foreigners don’t like Korean food. Tell them it’s too salty and they look crestfallen. But it is too salty, daggonit. Unless it’s in the bakery, in which case it’s sugary. And soft and spongy.

  14. SomeguyinKorea your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    #13. It’s certainly not as spicy as some of the American food I’ve had.

  15. globalvillageidiot your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never been able to understand why BBQ flavored potato chips (ones that actually pack some heat) and dill pickles (not the sweet pickles locals seem to enjoy with pizza) aren’t popular/are largely unavailable here. And it is odd that potato chips and snacks are often surprisingly sweet while cakes are often bland and dry, except for the icing (at least I think that’s what it is supposed to be…) Anyway, with most Korean food being really good, I shouldn’t have all that much to complain about.

    I think Korean food tends to be just as salty as spicy, but I actually had hot wings and chicken feet in some back alley joint in Shinchon last night that were nothing short of nuclear. Took three 500 CCs of beer to wash down about six wings! Cool place, but the food isn’t for the faint of heart.

    As for hotdog buns, if Costco doesn’t have them, try Emart. Certain Emart locations seem to have them. And, they can be ordered en masse the evening before, if you’re planning an event and don’t have base access.

  16. michael your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Global–stop, you’re making me cry :)

    Family Mart had some so-called BBQ chips and some “steak flavor” chips but both of them were more like sugar-flavored chips.

    I wish they had kettle chips and Hawaiian style chips here.

  17. Gerno your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    One only has to go so far as the Korean Cheetos. No cheese flavor at all.

  18. SomeguyinKorea your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Lotte now imports Lays potato chips (made in China), and it’s the kind you’d have back home, not some sweetened Korean version. Check the Lotte-owned grocery stores for them.

  19. Posted August 1, 2007 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Those Lays may soon enough be manufactured in Korea. Pepsico looks to be test-marketing now with the made-in-China product (which is delicious and very well-priced, by the way) distributed by Lotte but the urge to own things from the factory floor all the way through the channel is strong. Plus those delicious Chinese-made (but the recipe is for Korea — Chinese potato chips favor odd flavors like consomme) Lays somehow all get busted up in the bag on their way over. Local manufacture will mean more intact chips.

    As for the Cheetos, don’t argue with the market. So long as Koreans like them the way they are now, we’re stuck with Cheetos-without-cheese.

  20. Hwarang your flag
    Posted August 1, 2007 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    “However Korean baked goods are reported to have trans fats of 0.1 ~ 0.5g per 100g.”

    They also cure cancer and are a natural alternative to Viagra.

  21. seouldout your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    Maybe the government will genuinely act on behalf of the Korea consumers’ safety and ban fans. They kill people, ya know.

  22. Posted August 2, 2007 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    Hey guys, your food standards problem could be worse…you could be in the the People’s Republic of “80% of our food won’t kill you” China ;-)

    I feel the PRC should put up one of those day-counters you see in some US convenience stores that say “xxx days since the last serious accident here”

  23. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    @Janus:

    Have you ever watched CCTV’s weekly program Zhiliang Baogao? It’s a more effective appetite suppressant than any drug or supplement on the market. Very telling that China has an regular news investigate program devoted solely to exposes on food handling.

    @23:

    Yes, I am glad for stricter food labeling in the US, but even here, labeling is deceptive, thanks to food industry input into USDA and FDA regulations. Many products labeled “trans-fat free” actually contain trans-fats. FDA regulations permit companies to advertise their products as “trans-fat free” if the trans-fat content is a half-gram or less per serving. Of course, companies are free to set their own serving sizes and typically base nutritional information on serving sizes smaller than what people actually consume. The makers of Girl Scout cookies ‘eliminated’ trans-fats simply by changing the serving size.

    That’s why it pays to read labels and know what common yet tongue-twistingly named food ingredients like sodium caseinate and soy protein isolate actually are. The most accurate and comprehensive source I own is the book A Consumer’s Dictionary of Food Additives. The author doesn’t lecture or go into hysterics. She just identifies and describes just about any ingredient found in North American foods and possible health effects. Rule of thumb: if a label lists more than five ingredients, you probably don’t want to put it in the shopping cart.

    If you want to avoid trans-fat, do not consume anything made with partially hydrogenated or hydrogenated oils - vegetable oil, soybean oil, cottonseed oil, the type of oil doesn’t matter. It is the chemical process of changing molecular structure that renders the fat harmful. Your body mistakes these fake saturated fats for the real thing and incorporates them into your cellular structure. Because the fats aren’t chemically true saturated fats, they screw up the cell’s ability to function. The good news is that it’s almost never too late to clean up your body. 98% of your cells are regenerated over a two-year period. Think about that at your next meal.

    US labels specify oils as hydrogenated. Korean labels don’t. If the product is a solid food like cookies or pastries, the oil was probably hydrogenated. If it is a liquid or a sauce, then the oil probably wasn’t.

    Even unhydrogenated vegetable oils develop trans-fats when they are heated at high temperatures. That’s why it is a very bad idea to deep fry foods in cooking oil or vegetable oil. Deep frying high-carb foods like potatoes also causes the formation of cancer-causing acrylamides, yet another reason to avoid french fries and potato chips. I don’t deep fry, but if I did, I’d use beef tallow, lard, or peanut oil.

  24. robert neff your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    Hey Global -

    LEts get together and have some of those nuclear hot wings and chicken feet - but to be honest I prefer the 닭똥집 instead of the feet. I am not a big fan of the Korean snack foods such a potato chips and cookies, but as for regular fare - make mine spicy.

  25. Posted August 2, 2007 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    What are sodium caseinate and soy protein isolate? Inquiring minds want to know (if they’re bad for you).

  26. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    Sodium caseinate is a milk protein put into ice cream and other frozen dairy desserts and added to canned and frozen soups, stews, and fake meats like veggie burgers. It has not been linked with any health concerns other than the fact that some MSG is probably formed in the process of manufacturing sodium caseinate.

    Soy protein isolate is a favorite ingredient in vegetarian-friendly fake meats and all those high-protein, low-carb packaged foods, including those energy bars so popular with athletes and health nuts. Soy protein, like sodium caseinate, is a protein derivate and thus may contain MSG a natural by-product. Soy protein isolate is also added to low-fat soy products like low-fat soy milk and low-fat tofu to dillute the fat content.

    Soy protein isolate has been linked to certain cancers. You’re probably familiar with the debate over soy foods. Soy foods in their whole form - tofu, soybean paste, soy sauce, etc. - are fine in moderation. It’s when we extract part of a whole food and add the isolated ingredient to a frankenfood concoction containing other isolated ingredients that we end up with a product that is unhealthful.

    I eat whole soy foods in small amounts and avoid soy protein isolate.

  27. SomeguyinKorea your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    27 posts and not one joke about how the real ‘imported baked goods’ are Canadian hagwon teachers?

  28. Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    Mark this day down in the history books…Someguyinkorea cracked a joke, and at the expense of his fellow bacon-’n'-syrup-lovin’ Canadians, no less! ;)

  29. Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    Thanks for that. (It was a little bit of a trick question, as you surmised. I consume a significant amount of my own concoction of soy protein isolate, whey protein isolate, and casein (about 500g/day) blended with either 2% or whole milk - about a half gallon/day. Otherwise, I eat chicken breasts, eggs, steak, fish and all the fresh green, red, yellow and orange vegetables I can manage. Gallons of water. Some fruit, again as low on the glycemic index as possible. As few other carbs as possible, and then only very low glycemic value ones, often in a periodized fashion, once or twice a week before especially intense exercise sessions - a sort of cyclic ketogenic diet, although I more or less muddled into it on my own before I ever learned what ketosis means.)

  30. globalvillageidiot your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:21 am | Permalink

    25.

    Robert, I must admit that I didn’t have the courage to try the chicken feet last night - I’ve had them before; they aren’t among my favorites - but as you surmised this place serves 닭똥집 as well. (I did have a few of those at a different chicken joint a couple of months back, and loathe as I am to admit it, they weren’t too bad at all, aside from being a little on the chewy side.) This place - “불닭발” is the name I think - seems to use more than just local “gochu” pepper in its seasonings. Definitely delivers some heat the likes of which one normally doesn’t encounter in Korea.

    The only downer about the place was that they were playing K-pop ballads while we were there. Like a lot of the bars and restaurants around Shinchon and Hongdae, it has a run down, sort of “old school” appearance , so I guess I would have preferred some 70s Korean rock, or other Korean oldies, to the BOA, Baby Vox, Rain, etc. crap they had on.

  31. Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:36 am | Permalink

    Globalvillageidiot, where is this place, exactly? My wife would love it, and I’d be willing to take on the challenge.

  32. Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:37 am | Permalink

    …Assuming it’s still in business the next time we’re back in Seoul….

  33. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    Is that pasteurized milk, Sperwer? I won’t brag to you about the delicious raw milk yogurt and aged raw milk cheddar cheese I buy from local farmers. :)

    You know the difference between glycemic index and glycemic load, don’t you? I’ve been produce-loading all summer on locally grown berries, plums, and apricots along with greens and low-starch veggies. The glycemic loads of temperate climate fruits tend to be low thanks to high fiber and water content, and the anti-oxidant treasures are too good to pass up.

  34. Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    (She comes from Daegu, which goes heavy on the doenjang and gochujang.)

  35. sumo294 your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Sonagi, I really appreciate the heads up. You really got me thinking about my health.

  36. Posted August 2, 2007 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Hey, Sonagi, I feel lucky to get decent whole milk in Korea, but yeah it’s pasteurized and homogenized. A huge comedown from the straight from the teats stuff I used to get from my neighbor - my neighbor’s cows, that is - in upstate New York. Fed off the fodder from my fields leased over for growing alfalfa, etc. Even in NYC, one could get the wonderful heavy old style glass bottles with all the cream on top.

  37. Posted August 2, 2007 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Glycemic Load is why I can eat watermelon. ;))

    Here’s a good tool re same:

    http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

  38. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    That long list might befuddle a neophyte like Sumo. I like this one better:

    http://www.mendosa.com/common_foods.htm

    It categorized whole foods by GI and GL. I eat mostly whole foods, so this list is sufficient.

    I suspect the collections of nutrition-oriented websites in our favorites list overlap. We’re both fans of Art De Vany, too, as I recall.

  39. peninsular aborigine your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Sonagi, Sperwer’s milk and your cheese and yogurt would be would get a very knee-jerked veto from Art De Vany. Do you appreciate his exercise wisdom or his diet wisdom more?

  40. peninsular aborigine your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    would be would get?

    It almost makes sense.

  41. Posted August 2, 2007 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    PA:

    I suspect you’re right about deVany, since he’s a pretty orthodox paleodieter, and dairy wasn’t among the choices available to paleolithic people. But I’m a descendant of the beserker originators of dairy culture, and have a highly developed tolerance for the stuff - in fact, I only really have trouble with high volumes of grains and cultivated starches (like potatoes - God help me, though, I love ‘em so, especially mashed with parmesan cheese and black pepper). Otherwise, I’m pretty much on board with deVany - although for my current training purposes, I’ve been supplementing my natural food intake with a lot of proceesed whey, casein and soy protein, in order to accelerate realization of the Abs at 56 goal (now accomplished at a body fat % of 10.5, down from 28% 10 months ago) - on nutrition. Same for exercise, although I’ve been favoring more strength training than endurance training - although the balance is about to get adjusted as I transition to training for next year’s Race the Planet’s Gobi March and Sahara March.

  42. peninsular aborigine your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    I have one problem with the paleo reasoning: we had monkey ancestors who ate paleo for hundreds of thousands of years (whatever), and then they morphed into runty farmers some 10,000 - 12,000 years ago. Ergo, we should go with the monkeys since we ate that way a lot longer. Seems to me, however, that I’m a lot closer related to my folks, their folks, their … so your beserker point is well noted. That’s why we became lactose tolerant, right?

  43. Posted August 2, 2007 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    PA:

    I’m not sure I completely follow you, but yeah (based purely on my own personal experience) I think at least some humans have successfully adapted to dairy; big populations also obviously have not in a way that is a lot more directly indicated than toxic weight gain and other disease factors. Based on the accumulating scientific evidence, I don’t think the same thing can be said about grains (carbs); of course, there’s been adaptation to carbs, and in the relatively short run, some have done well with them, but the toxic fallout is demonstrably starting to accumulate in people’s waistlines and in disease factors in ways that are difficult to ignore, i.e., the 260 pounder trying to squeeze into the economy class seat next to you.

    Sonagi:

    And Mark Sisson, too, where I notice you’ve commented.

  44. sumo294 your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    I have to confess; I am woefully ignorant about health nutrition. Seems like a separate universe sometimes but still not an excuse not to take of one’s health. I honestly thankful to persons who do raise awareness on foodstuff. I only differ from the experts in that government primary mission should be informing the public about health than defining it.

  45. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    “Sonagi, Sperwer’s milk and your cheese and yogurt would be would get a very knee-jerked veto from Art De Vany. Do you appreciate his exercise wisdom or his diet wisdom more?”

    Diet gurus aren’t either/or but offer a spectrum of choices. As Sperwer pointed out, De Vany is pure paleo. Other advocates of traditiona omnivore diets include Mary Enig and Sally Fallon, who praise minimally processed dairy as acceptable for those whose digestive systems tolerate it.

    My gripe with pure paleos is that just because our ancestors didn’t eat something for millions of years doesn’t mean we can’t eat it now. We didn’t learn to walk upright and develop sophisticated brains by eating the same old stuff. The first human settlements have been found along coastlines, strongly suggesting that it was the introduction of fish into the diet that promoted the brain development that made us human.

    Anti-nutrient properties of grains and legumes (hard beans like soybeans, chickpeas, lentils) can be reduced by soaking and eliminated through sprouting. Whole grains and legumes are rich in other nutrients. Grains and legumes are allergenic for some people, but so are eggs and shellfish, yet paleo diets allow those. I eat whole grains (not bread or cold cereal, but the unrefined grains themselves) and legumes in small quantities.

    “I have one problem with the paleo reasoning: we had monkey ancestors who ate paleo for hundreds of thousands of years (whatever), and then they morphed into runty farmers some 10,000 - 12,000 years ago. Ergo, we should go with the monkeys since we ate that way a lot longer. “

    Evolution doesn’t quite follow that order. Our human ancestors were hunter-gatherers for more than 200,000 years before the introduction of agriculture. Pre-human ancestors ate a mostly herbivore diet. That includes Neanderthals, who were taller, bigger boned, and more muscular than the early humans who outlived them. We didn’t survive this long as a species by refusing to incorporate new things into our diet. It is our flexible omnivorous diet that has been key to our global spread.

    “Based on the accumulating scientific evidence, I don’t think the same thing can be said about grains (carbs); of course, there’s been adaptation to carbs, and in the relatively short run, some have done well with them, but the toxic fallout is demonstrably starting to accumulate in people’s waistlines and in disease factors in ways that are difficult to ignore, i.e., the 260 pounder trying to squeeze into the economy class seat next to you.”

    That 260-pounder didn’t get that big by eating bread and pasta alone. Those carbs were accompanied by lots of factory farm meat and dairy, and worst of all, nearly everything on the table has been sweetened with HFCS or some other ‘natural’ or artificial sweetener. You’re in Korea, Sperwer. Look around you at the big bowls of white rice at every meal, yet you don’t see any Korean 260-pounders. It ain’t the carbs per se, but refined, processed products from all food groups.

    “That’s why we became lactose tolerant, right?”

    Who’s “we”? Most human adults lack genes for lactose tolerance, yet another reason why I dislike seeing the promotion of dairy as an essential part of a healthy diet. Even dairy fans Sally Fallon and Mary Enig state clearly that dairy is an option for those who can tolerate it.

  46. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 2, 2007 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    “I only differ from the experts in that government primary mission should be informing the public about health than defining it.”

    I differ from you on that point. The USDA and FDA are shills for the meat and dairy industries and food and pharma, respectively. The boards that oversee regulations and approval of new food and drug items are filled with industry insiders. Similarly, university researchers often look to the food industry and big pharma for funding. That’s why I value information and advice from independent experts like Art De Vany, Marion Nestle (former NYU professor of nutrition and author), Sally Fallon, Mary Enig, T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn, and Dean Ornish. The last three have published books advocating veganism, a diet I no longer follow. They are, however, independents with no major corporate ties, and their nutritional advice regarding the value of plant foods in the diet is sound. Although I am an omnivore, my animal food consumption of a few servings a week is closer to vegan than to paleos. Atkins adversary the late Nathan Pritikin founded a company to promote the vegan diet that helped him reverse heart disease. He died of cancer in his 70s, a consequence of dangerous radiation treatment received thirty years earlier. An independent autopsy declared that he had the arteries of a teenager.

  47. Posted August 2, 2007 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Point taken about carbs and the impact of Frankenfood, Sonagi. But don’t forget that polished white rice has only been a staple for the population at large for less than a hundred years, many of them ones in which it also wasn’t readily available because of the depredations of the Japanese or war. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the previous generations of elite Koreans who had steady access to polished rice were overweight and more susceptible to modern disease factors; and one only has to look at those under 40 today to see that “big” changes in the Korean physique are under way - albeit accelerated not only by the ingestion of bigger amounts of processed grains, but also all the Frankenfood to which you refer.

    I also agree with your comments about milk and, generally, the importance of recognizing the possibility of positive dietary evolution generally (to which it is surprising that De Vany is so oblivious given the emphasis in his economic work on the creative potential of variation) and, more particularly the supervening importance of every individual determining and taking charge of their own diet based on an understanding of their own metabolism.

  48. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 3, 2007 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    “to which it is surprising that De Vany is so oblivious given the emphasis in his economic work on the creative potential of variation”

    Did you know him back when? I only discovered his blog several months ago. I like Mark Sisson a little better because he seems less dogmatic. One look around the incredibly diverse human diets and dietary adaptations around the globe confirms that one diet is not right for everyone. The nation with the highest longevity is Japan, followed by Sweden. These two peoples share a fondness for fish but their other dietary staples are different. Paleo, omnivore, or vegan, sustainably farmed and raised whole foods are the key to longevity.

  49. sumo294 your flag
    Posted August 3, 2007 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    Sonagi, if I were eating a KBBQ dinner (I know you don’t eat a lot of meat) is it relatively safe to eat of the veg stuff? I read something about the level of nitrates in Korean kimchi once.

  50. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 3, 2007 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    Nobody likes food dogmatists anymore than they like religious zealots. When I go out for dinner, I eat enough of what’s on the table to get a meal and say “thank you.” The body has an amazing capacity for repair and a healthy person can stand the occasional bad meal.

    Commercial kimchis, including dishes served at restaurants, should be eaten sparingly. I’m too lazy to google for you, but there are research studies by Koreans and Japanese showing a strong correlation between high consumption of pickled veggies and salted fish and gastrointestinal cancers. Nitrites can be neutralized by eating foods high in vitamin C at the same meal. Many fresh vegetables like lettuce and peppers are high in nitrates picked up from soil fertilizer. Consumption of fresh vegetables is negatively correlated with cancer. It is thought that the vitamin C content of the vegetables prevents the chemical process by which nitrates and nitrites are converted into cancer-causing nitrosamines.

    Commercially sold meats all come from animals confined in barns and fed grain cocktails. Such meats have high omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acid ratios (promotes disease-causing inflamation) and their fats are loaded with toxins accumulated from their diets. Meats and dairy put more pesticides into the bodies of North Americans than do non-organic produce or even fish. Part of the reason for this is that the SAD (standard American diet) is high in meat and dairy.

    I see you live in the US, Sumo. If you are really concerned about your health, you should spend a little extra money on nutritious locally grown produce and grass-fed, pastured meats and eggs, if they are available where you live.

    Check out these websites to see if there are farmers’ markets or farm vendors in your area.

    http://www.eatwild.com

    http://www.localharvest.org

    It’s through these websites that I located the farmers I do business with. One caveat: produce sold at farmers’ markets isn’t always sourced locally. There is one farmers’ market in my area that strictly accepts only vendors who sell exclusively what they grow, raise, or make themselves. The others all sell a mixture of locally grown and shipped from out of state. These vendors are honest when I ask about the origin of produce that looks out of season for our area.

    Locally grown is nutritionally superior to factory farm organic from those giant Earthbound farms in California. Often, you can tell whether produce was heavily sprayed just by looking at it. Bug bites are appetizing. Live bugs on the produce is even better! Talk to the farmers. They’re usually honest about their farming and livestock methods.

    There is a cheap and easy way to sterilize fresh produce. Fill a large bucket or bowl with a gallon of water and a one tablespoon of food-grade hydrogen peroxide, available at any pharmacy or in the pharmacy section of major supermarkets for about $1 a bottle. HPO kills any parasites or bacteria that might cause grief to your digestive system. It’s cheaper and more effective than any produce sprays. Let the produce soak for 20 minutes, then rinse.

    I’ll come back later with some websites you might want to check out if you’re interesting in cleaning up your diet.

  51. peninsular aborigine your flag
    Posted August 3, 2007 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Thanks for all the legwork. Good mojo.

  52. Posted August 3, 2007 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Did you know him back when? I only discovered his blog several months ago.

    Nope, he was on the left coast; I was at “Berkeley in the East”. I never heard of him until you mentioned him in another thread sometime ago.

  53. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 4, 2007 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    One more word about nitrites:

    Sodium nitrite is a common preservative in processed meats like bacon, sausage, ham, and deli meats/cold cuts. It serves two functions: a tiny amount is highly effective in preventing the growth of harmful bacteria; and it helps the meat retain its appetizing reddish pink color. Nitrite-free processed meats are probably unavailable in Korea, but you can find them in North American supermarkets. Often nitrite-free meats are kept in the frozen food section to retard spoilage. Applegate Farms is one brand to look for.

    Since some commenters seem interested in knowing more about foods and health, I am in the process of setting a modest little blog to share what I know, learn, and discover. I will email Robert when it’s ready.

  54. Fantasy your flag
    Posted August 4, 2007 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    I will recommend your blog to my wife - she might very well be interested. I myself mostly eat in the canteen at my place of work, thus I have only very limited influence on the manner in which the food I eat is prepared…

  55. Sonagi your flag
    Posted August 4, 2007 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    It’s up:

    http://mindbodyandspirit.wordpress.com/

  56. wjk your flag
    Posted August 4, 2007 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    sonagi, you can drink raw milk if you want, and I’m sure it tastes much better, but you’re putting all your faith in a farmer versus the United States Food and Drug Administration.

    If you look around hard enough, you’ll see pregnant women who insist on drinking raw milk, against CDC recommendations. Because they know this farmer, he has a good track record, etc.

    I’ll go with the United States FDA.

  57. wjk your flag
    Posted August 4, 2007 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/rawm-toc.html

    Please read this. Raw milk. FDA.

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