The land grab is on for the North Pole, except there is no Japan/Korea friction:
Russian scientists hope to plunge to the seabed beneath the North Pole in the next few days in a miniature sub and plant a titanium capsule containing the Russian flag, symbolically claiming much of the Arctic Ocean floor for Moscow. . . Moscow has claimed the polar region since at least the days of the Bolsheviks, and argued that the geological data backed up this claim in 2002 in an application to the U.N. committee that administers the Law of the Sea. The U.N. rejected Moscow’s application, citing a lack of evidence.
This sort of land grab is only going to get worse with time.
81 Comments
Of all the nerve. Obviously, the North Pole is Canadian. I mean, who are those Russians trying to fool?
The magnetic North Pole is in Canada, not the geographic one.
Russians have long wanted to take control of the Arctic region thanks to soviet propaganda. The current Russian government is counting on this to garner domestic support for the land grab.
http://www.carc.org/pubs/v16no4/10.htm
I thought we are living in the 21st century, but the world is becomming more like the 19th century day by day.
Crazy world!
Oh, by the way, the place that is “like Dokdo, only colder” is Hans Island.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island
Well, almost. Most Danes and Canadians think it’s pretty much a joke. It’s unlikely that these two peaceful countries and longtime allies will ever go to war over a rock.
“I thought we are living in the 21st century, but the world is becomming more like the 19th century day by day.
Crazy world!”
And Putin is supposedly a reformer…Ironic, isn’t it?
Both are pretty much equal in military power. Interesting to see who would come out on top. The Danes being Europeans and the Canadians having their Frenchies.
I think the Danes will win such a war, hands down.
“The Danes being Europeans and the Canadians having their Frenchies.”
Frenchies? Gees, why don’ you call them ‘frogs’ while you’re at it.
WJK,
Canada has nukes.
“Canada has nukes.”
Uh… no.
Partly the Québecois’ fault: most insist on calling themselves “Canadien-Français”…
#10.
You’re naive.
http://www.user.dccnet.com/wel.....water.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....estruction
#11,
Right, so it’s African-Americans fault if redneck call them the ‘n’ word?
Darn typos…
#10,
If you haven’t gotten it yet…Don’t you think that Canada would deny having nukes? After all, one of Canada’s role within NATO is to try to discourage non-NATO nations of developing nuclear weapons.
Well, when reporters brought up the question in the late 90’s, all that the Canadian government would confirm is that it had “no current nuclear weapons”. Not much of denial, is it?
#12.
You apparently don’t read your own sources.
(emphasis added)
(emphasis added)
Re: #7
“I think the Danes will win such a war, hands down.”
I don’t think so. Canada has more than 2x the number of fighter aircraft, as well as twice the number of combat troops. Not to mention the fact that Canada’s economy is larger than Denmark’s. In a prolonged war, Canada can tap into almost 7 million males fit for military service, while Denmark could only get just over one million.
Denmark and Canada going to war over Hans Island is probably one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
The strongest argument against Canada’s having its own nuclear arsenal is also the simplest.
Why spend your own money on what Uncle Sucker will provide for free?
I like the idea of Canada being in a war.
Eating pancakes in the barracks, riding horses through the forest, and getting very, very angry.
A Canadian war would probably be very nice, if not boring. Kinda like Canada itself, eh.
Send in the squadron of Learjets.
“Why spend your own money on what Uncle Sucker will provide for free?”
I’d like to see how effectively the Unites States would have been able to project itself globally over the past sixty years had they been faced with potentially hostile neighbors on its northern and southern borders. It’s a pretty good deal for both countries, and as someguy’s info indicates, even if we aren’t a nuclear power now, we could be as fast as the Japanese or anybody else out there if we wanted to. Thankfully, that won’t happen. For the most part, we could do without all the grief that comes with it.
#19 - You’re absoltely right, and I was overly flippant in my wording. My point was that Canada’s interests were better served by hosting US nukes than by building their own arsenal.
Ut,
You’re naive. Let me just leave it at that.
“The Danes being Europeans and the Canadians having their Frenchies.”
Most people I know would not equate Spaniards with Hispanic Americans. I’ve always found it amusing when French Canadians are somehow considered as being French - as in France - when they British defeated the French in 1763. You might try linking Lousianna Cajuns to France too. After all, the Lousianna Purchase followed the conquest by 40 years.
Someguy,
You make claims that are contradicted by all available evidence, and argue from the lack of evidence that your claim must be true. Let me just leave it at that.
I wasn’t trying to be flippant.
I finally figured out how the two would actually get a chance to fight. It would have to be a infantry attack conducted in the winter taking advantage of the ice planes of the artic circle. The Danes would have to start from Greenland and swing down from the north. I estimate that the march in harsh conditions and stops to build logistal depots would take two winters. The Canadians of course would harass the Danish troop vanguard with their secret elite sled dog team delta group. The real surprise will be the overall effectiveness of the Swiss mercenaries. The mayor of Quebec will declare “so what, in the end, either the British run things or the Danes do, what’s the difference?”
yo, I know you like to look down on Koreans for Dokdo,
but Han Island,
I’ll call it that,
seems to have plenty of
military exercises, scientific explorations, international level disagreements, flag hosting, and map labelings on its own.
You guys, Canadians and Danes have a lot of Han.
How dare you point fingers at Koreans.
Although you guys don’t seem to chop fingers…yet. Wait until that ice melts, and the place becomes way more important.
Canadians always have to be aware of the Quebecois. If you guys get caught not learning enough French or using it everyday, they might go for yet another referendum to create the wealthiest Francophone nation in the American continent. That’s inner-Han in Canada, for you
Practice calling it fromage, not cheese.
if you want to mention joint use of Han Island between Canada and Denmark of late, I think Kim Dae Jung dealed to joint fish the area with Japan, thereby being named as a turncoat by his haters. Roh Moo Hyun wanted Japan to agree on calling it the Sea of Peace.
Hey, I don’t think that’s so much different from what the Danes and Canadians are doing. Same Han.
#27.
wjk, I trust you are joking. (The smiling, winking emoticon tipped me off!)
For most Canadians - and most Danes too I suspect - think this issue is a joke. We are NATO allies and - outside of maybe Greece and Turkey disagreeing over Cypruss - minor territorial disputes do not result in conflict. Both the Canadian and Danish govts. now appear willing to recognize a border that straddles Hans island. A reasonable and mature approach to what should never become a problem. Not bad, eh?
I would guess that many Canadians and Danes have never even heard of Hans Island. It may be used by the occasional politician in either country to push for increases in military spending (and neither country is a major player in this department) but aside from the novelty aspect of the story a couple of years ago, nobody seems to care.
Would you say that most Koreans regard Dokdo as a satirical news/historical footnote that, at the end of the day, is more humorous than anything else? Do most Koreans regard Japan as a friend and ally? Do you anticipate Korea and Japan reaching a measured compromise on the issue of Dokdo? Do you think Canadian kindergarten teachers will come to use Hans Island as an excuse to promote hatred against Danes and their Greenland dwelling minions?
No, no, no, and no.
By the way, let me state for the record that I think that Dokdo belongs (and probably should belong) to Korea, just in case someone out there has any ideas about getting me fired, deported, in the dog house with my wife, or any combination of those…
#26.
Say that you weren’t totally joking…It wouldn’t work. Ice can be blown up to prevent infantrymen and tanks from crossing it.
When do the Hans Riders hit the road?
good points, globalvillageidiot.
wookinponub, I suppose they will start coordinating with the Dokdo Riders.
Even America has border disputes with its neighbors
Take Mexico. We say there is a border, they say “what border”
The Dokdo Rider use a collective singular, like the Minnesota Wild or the Miami Heat.
Bosh. Totally different concepts. Québecois insist on being called French-Canadian. However, while there were black groups and associations that used to call themselves Negro this or that, a long time ago, I have never seen any black guy call himself “Nigger”, at least not to somebody outside his tribe. If, well, when, anyway, rednecks use this word, or, the “J” word, to stay somewhat PC, or any other colourful and none too complimentary expression, it’s not because the recipients of the abuse asked for it. Unlike the Freedom Canadians.
#30,
They already did, but were eaten by polar bears. The Canadian government is scrambling to find a replacement, but nobody is volunteering. I can’t blame them. Can you imagine going across the Middle-East with a kayak?
#34,
You just don’t get it. It’s exactly the same. Calling French-Canadians ‘Frenchy’ or ‘frog’ is just the same as calling African-Americans the ‘n’ word. Just because they label themselves a certain way does not excuse the name calling.
Let the Russians, Danes, and Canadians fight over the Arctic. We own the moon!
Ouch, that first paragraph of mine is in need of editing. Sorry.
#36.
I beg to differ. The moon is owned by 맨온더문 and his pet rabbit.
PS. 맨온더문 is the Korean green cheese tycoon.
For completeness sake I’d add these questions: Did Denmark colonize Canada within the past century? Are Denmark and Canada geographical neighbors? Have Denmark assasins ever come and raped and disemboweled a Canadian Queen or political figure? Did the Danes systematically rape Canadian women? If so, do Danes boast about it today on the largest Danish web sites?
No, no, no, and no.
Apparently you don’t get, but I can’t help it. If many/most French-speaking Québecois demand to be called French — much as I am loathe to, since they’re not — that’s what they’ll get. And they’ll get both sides of the coin, ie the abuse, too. I, being French, and trying very hard not to show it usually, would rather, were I from Québec, tone down the Frenchie part.
“For completeness sake I’d add these questions: Did Denmark colonize Canada within the past century? Are Denmark and Canada geographical neighbors? Have Denmark assasins ever come and raped and disemboweled a Canadian Queen or political figure? Did the Danes systematically rape Canadian women? If so, do Danes boast about it today on the largest Danish web sites?
No, no, no, and no.”
Exactly the point I was trying to make. Hans Island and Dokdo have nothing in common. No comparison whatsoever. Read the earlier posts. Thanks for clarifying my point.
“Apparently you don’t get, but I can’t help it. If many/most French-speaking Québecois demand to be called French — much as I am loathe to, since they’re not — that’s what they’ll get. And they’ll get both sides of the coin, ie the abuse, too. I, being French, and trying very hard not to show it usually, would rather, were I from Québec, tone down the Frenchie part.”
French Canadians - Quebeckers or otherwise - are French speakers but generally never claim to be French, as in being from France. (Do French Belgians and Swiss claim to be “French” in terms of nationality?) The conquest occured in 1763 and many of the defining moments of history that defined France - codification of the language, Revolution, Napoleonic Wars, etc - were not part of the French Canadian experience. Visit Canada and you can see that French Canadians, for the most part, enjoy French TV, newspapers, magazines, and music about as much as the average American is into Australian TV, Scottish newspapers, Canadian magazines, and Welsh music. Maybe less.
“Exactly the point I was trying to make. Hans Island and Dokdo have nothing in common. No comparison whatsoever. Read the earlier posts. Thanks for clarifying my point.”
Try this> The main point of my comment is: I agree with you. But you were going for a secondary point; else, quite simply, I found a lacuna in your post that demanded some love and filling.
# 36, 38
^^
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/co.....-16223.PDF
http://www.un.org/events/unisp...../gares.htm
Do you know 姮娥(of China), 輝夜姬(of Japan), who are believed to live on the moon?
44.
Fair enough.
Not true. While I’ve never met a Swiss or Belgian who’ll say he’s “French-XXX” — although a wallon, in Belgium, might emphasise that — most, if not all, Québecois I met, corrected me when I said “Oh, tu es Canadien.” They always add “Canadien Français”, usually with a very stubborn expression on their face. Once I made the mistake of saying something like “same fuckin’ difference” and my ears are still ringing from the aftermath. Apparently, Canadien and Canadien Français are two very different species, and they’re the ones claiming to be “Français” on top of Canadien…
Yeah!
He wants to re-form the USSR! Bwa! Ha! Ha!
#41.
French-Canadians don’t call themselves ‘French-Canadians’. That’s what Americans call them. They may be Quebecois, Francescois, Franco-ontarien, Brayon, Franco-manitoben, Acadien, Metis, etc. but the general term is Francophone, not French-Canadian or French.
Oh, and the Frenchy (when it is used as a derogatory term)/’N’ analogy was a deliberate one on my part. Why? Read up on Acadian history. Of the 1500 Acadians that were sent to Virginia during the deportation, 500 survived the trip. These were sent to work in the fields with the African-American slaves before shipping them to England (where they also worked as slaves). The 450 who were sent to Georgia were also enslaved alongside African-Americans. The 450 who arrived in Pennsylvania saw their children taken away and put into slavery. The 2000 who arrived in Massachusetts were whipped in the town square if they left their assigned towns (where they worked as…you guessed it: slaves). The 900 who were sent to Maryland were the lucky ones. Maryland was named after Queen Mary, a catholic like the Acadians. People there were much kinder to the Acadians. They were even allowed to get jobs and build churches.
Actually, Denmark and Canada are geographical neighbors, if you count Greenland. The Danes did conquer England for awhile, and I’m sure some small amount of raping and pillaging went on there… Sure, that was a thousand or so years ago, when Canada wasn’t even a country, but the descendants of the British (and the British Danes) went on to colonize Canada. If you want something more direct, there’s also the possibility that the Danes actually reached as far as Newfoundland - which is clearly Canadian territory, nevermind that Canada didn’t exactly exist back then (I’m sure the First Nations people really did consider themselves Canadian.)
dda, I’m not convinced you’re French. Didn’t you say a couple of months ago that you use a French proxy? I’m sure someone can dig that one up. Besides, ‘Tu es Canadien’? Are you always that rude when you meet strangers? On ne tutois pas les étrangers, on les vuvois.
50
I don’t count Greenland. The rest of your logic would have the entire human race either raped or rapist or both by less than six degrees, trivially.
–
Btw, how is “Frenchie” equal to “nigger” in Canada? That’s not very fair. “Nigger” is something of a demeaning anthropological term which one associates with slavery. Frenchy, on the other hand, is an allusion to a country that produces wine and cheese, fine film and (utterly useless) philosophy. That’s not really that bad.
How’s the term “hoser” go for Canadians?
Merde. Another mistake. With ‘on’ as the subject it should have been ‘tutoie’ and ‘vouvoie’.
Damn, not only am I losing my English after all the years living here, I’m also losing my French. As for my German? Don’t even ask.
Well, that’s sort of the point, really… If you really want to pick a fight with someone over what their country’s ancestors did to yours, you usually can. It’s just much easier between Japan and Korea because of the (relatively) recent colonization.
#52
There is not point in arguing with me about how some derogatory terms have a stronger negative connotation than others. I never claimed otherwise. The fact remains that Frenchy has been used as a derogatory term and can be seen has having a negative connotation in some of its other uses.
Hoser is the same. It is used as a mocking term for Canadians by some Americans.
…just as ‘Yankee’ has been used abroad as a mocking term for Americans.
Oh, and if you insist on knowing how Canadians would use the term ‘hoser’ in a sentence…
“Look at those hosers in their Kenora dinner jackets. Must be a formal event.”
http://www.canadianaconnection.....lines.html
Joke that’ll get me banned:
Why does Canada have French people and America have black people?
America had first pick.
fatgreenlantern,
That’s not funny.
What’s funny, however, is that you weren’t smart enough to pick a different proxy server than your usual one.
54
Yet, that’s sort of my point too except my restrictions are crucial. But perhaps you’re misunderstanding something or perhaps I’m misunderstanding you and I falsely believe that you think you are contradicting me.
In short, I’m not instantiating from an ideal abstract category - ie raping - and fitting it for an argument. The point is that relatively recent events and all of the particularities involved have contributed materially to the tensions that exist between two countries at a time adjacent to those events. This is a causal description not justification. If that’s not plain enough, the simple point is that some conditions cause the relationship between two nations to be a certain way; these conditions are not present for another pair of nations (for which reason I’ve agreed the two pairs should not be compared).
55
I know “frenchie” is derogatory regardless. I only mean that, objectively speaking, the term’s contents as a pejorative don’t really say much (extensionally or intensionally) unlike other terms.
Everyone is missing the point. A Canuck-Danish war would be the greatest pay per view event ever. Imagine elite dog sled teams firing M-60’s and mowing down young Danish guys who look like the rapist Van Der Sloot. It would make the world crazy with prime time fever. You could show close ups of men huddling and eating war rations (pancakes) with beer. Awesome, baby!
This whole thread is utterly ridiculous. Some people need to seriously chill out. Man!
Someguy: dda is French, from France. No, I haven’t actually met him, but yes, I know.
#62.
It would be a short lived war.
The Danish army gets its rifles from a Canadian manufacturer, so they could easily be sabotaged at the factory by pouring a couple of ounces of maple syrup down the barrel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diemaco_C7
#63
A Frenchman that he doesn’t get the relationship between French patriotism and linguistic identity? That’s just plain weird.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophonie
Correction: “who doesn’t”…didn’t have my coffee yet.
After having this thread hi-jacked for too long, how about something *on-topic* like why are korea and Japan so sensitive about under-water surveying of the seabed around Dokdo-takeshima? I wonder if there are energy deposits in the area. If so, this would be like the situation surrounding the contentious grab for territory made by China and Russia.
I wonder how much longer it will be until there is a land grab in the Antarctica as well.
P.S. I will delete anymore of-topic baiting from you guys after this.
> After having this thread hi-jacked for too long,
> how about something *on-topic*
I blame the lack of an off-topic thread this weekend. The pressure that has been building up on some people must have been too much to bear.
Scratch that. Actually I blame the Japanese.
As for the subject at hand - I find it hard to imagine a set of circumstances in which Russia would try to enforce its “ownership” of the North Pole. Sounds like one of those purely for domestic consumption sort of moves.
Actually, how is Dokdo any more “on topic” than the Canada-Denmark stuff?
But as long as we are talking about contested island. Why do Korean’s keep calling themselves “The world’s only divided country”? I must have heard or read that a hafl-dozen times over the last few days. Each time I do, all I can think is, “What about Cyprus?”
#67.
Okay.
The seabed under Dokdo is only a speck on the map. It’s small potatoes when compared to the riches that lay below the Arctic, which covers an area many times larger than that of South Korea, Japan, and the body of water that separates them combined. Obviously, Koreans are overreacting over Dokdo and Americans, Canadians, and Danes are ‘under-reacting’ to Russia’s recent move on the Arctic. Or maybe not: the seabed below Dokdo can be easily excavated; however, the sea is 4000m deep at the North Pole.
Re: That’s not funny.
It’s OK. I’m French-Canadian. My family’s been in Canada since ‘Ste. Marie among the Hurons’ time.
This is a drive-by, as the comments have provided a lot of laughs. In the 50s and 60s, it was common to refer to ourselves (the maternal side in my case) as “crapauds”, the Canadien version of “frog”. (As in “te es crapaud, toi? Mais Christ du tabonacle, ouay!) (And yes, if an anglais had said the same, we’d have gobsmacked him with a hockey puck.) We referred to people from Quebec as “Canadien” (often making it sound like “canayen). This was to distinguish them from Acadiens, and the greatly detested “maudit-anglais”. Habitants often referred to themselves as “vrai-canadiens” when speaking of the “anglais”, i.e., non-francophone residents of Canada. And yes, among many “vrai-canadiens” there were deep feelings of hostility towards the French, but it was not universal. And good girls did not go out with “anglais”. Period. In Cabanot, near Notre Dame du Lac in 1962-62, even the town prostitute would not touch an “anglais” for love or money. There was a whole crew of them busy constructing what would be the Trans-Canada Highway, and they were a mighty lonesome crew.
Someguy, ref #62. I’d forgo the maple sirop for the much heavier “produit d’erable”.
As for the original thread, Canada would have to watch out for the Russians. Those bastards can play some mighty mean hockey.
Oh yeah they do [well actually Canadien-Français but whatever], and they quite insist on that fact. Or have I just met, over 20+ years, members of a same group that does that, and represent a 0.0001% minority? I shouldn’t think so…
That’s the second time someone doubts I am French — I should be flattered, is my English that good? The previous one was that asshat Bevers, on Oranckay’s blog. I am French alright, born and raised in Limoges, a small town I left at age 20 to study in Paris. I left France in 1994, and except for a regrettable stint between late 2004 and early 2007, haven’t been back home. I live presently in HK, but travel a lot — the different flags you can see next to my name in comments are real locations, not proxies… I’ve know Marmot for three years now, he can testify to that, if need be.
Now, to your butchered French and slightly hazy understanding of French protocol.
On ne
tutoistutoie pas les étrangers, on lesvuvoisvouvoie.And Freedom Canajuns are famous for tutoiement, much more than French actually; besides, young[ish] people do tend to tutoyer each other even when meeting for the first time. Heck, I am just back from 下沙漫 beach, where I met 12 French people I had never met before, between age 28 and 50, and not a single vous was ushered…
So shove back your poor French back where it belongs, and keep to things you know.
“Oh yeah they do [well actually Canadien-Français but whatever], and they quite insist on that fact.”
Only when correcting foreigners.
J’ai fait quelques petites fautes d’ortographe. Et puis quoi alors? Je les ai corrigees, non? Je te rappelle qu’il etait 3 heure du matin ici, alors 2 petites fautes, c’est pas grave. Ce n’est pas un crime.
Tu me croyais serieux? Bien au contraire, je plaisantais. Pourtant, il me semble que c’etait assez evident.
PS. Je n’ai pas de clavier francais, alors les accents et la cedille, je m’en passe.
“So shove back your poor French back where it belongs, and keep to things you know.”
dda, soyez un peu plus gentil. Il essaye bien. Comme il a dit, les fautes qu’il a fait ne sont pas tres graves.
“Je n’ai pas de clavier francais”
Moi non plus. Je pense que c’est evident.
En passant, mon pere et mon frere ont fait leurs etudes en France. Ma mere est professeur
ede francais. Elle participe a des concours de dictee pour s’ammuser. Alors, mon francais est pauvre? Elle est bonne, celle la.Dorenavant, tu devrais prendre le temps de reflechir avant d’ecrire.
Ah bon, parce qu’on tutoie les étrangers chez toi, maintenant, contrairement à ce que *vous* disiez trois commentaires plus haut ? Quelle consistence dans l’effort, trouduc…
Oui, s’amuser c’est amusant, et c’est encore mieux avec un ‘m’ que deux.
Nothing like a Frog pissing contest.
Anyway, back on topic: I’d like to see our 688s and Seawolves go against the latest from Russkie-land (launching Tomahawks isn’t exactly a true test of combat ability).
78.
The Seakings…If they plan it right, they might be able to take out a Russian helicopter or two when they crass.
crash…sorry.
As I said before in a different thread:
The Marmot’s Hole really is THE place to go in order to sample information about the intricacies of Canadian etiquette.
I myself do not mind at all - I am just as much interested in Canada as I am in Korea. I was resident in both country for extended periods of my life.
But I doubt whether this interest in Canada is universally shared by the commenters and moderators of this fine blog.
Anyway, the next time that I am tipped of on account of my habit of drawing comparisons between Korea and Germany I’ll refer my critics to this thread. If the Canucks can do it, so can us Germans…