OK, now I’ve heard everything — Al Jazeera (via YTN), quoting Taliban officials, is reporting that some of the hostages have gone on hunger strike to protest their detainment.
Al Jazeera said the Taliban have tried to force the striking hostages to eat, but they’re continuing to refuse.
I don’t mean to make light of the situation, but I must say, this is the most bizarre clash of cultures I’ve ever seen.
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76 Comments
“I don’t mean to make light of the situation, but I must say, this is the most bizarre clash of cultures I’ve ever seen.”
Amazing, isn’t it?
Yep, you can’t get a clash of cultures more bizarre than that of modernist Korean Presbyterians with the traditionalist Islamist Taliban.
Hahahahahaha. That’s hilarious. I can just see one of my co-teachers doing that if held hostage and denied access to her cell phone.
“I don’t mean to make light of the situation”
I know, it’s tempting to make a joke about them simply protesting the lack of a certain Korean staple food…but that would be in very poor taste.
It really doesn’t look good for the hostages. I fear this may just a lie by the Taliban to cover the fact that they killed or will kill some of the female prisoners.
…and then some ‘babo’ makes a joke about cellphones.
Shall we note that when members of a certain religion (of peace) ‘off’ female infidels they tend to, uh, do stuff before… At Belsan even the elementary students were raped.
I remember a while back a group of Koreans burned a Koran for the media. Could it be that another jihad will soon be upon us?
#6.
Don’t get fooled by the theatrics, this isn’t about religion. The Taliban are drug dealers who got powerful enough to form their own political party. Religion is the sugar coating on the pill that makes it easier to be willfully swallowed or forcedly shoved down people’s throats.
I don’t think this is about religion. Well, it is kinda about religion. You can be sure, though, that the sex deprived young muslim men holding these people will have their fun.
Isn’t suicide frowned upon, even for Protestants? Even as a form of, er, protest?
going on a hunger strike to ‘protest detainment’ by the Taliban demonstrates acute ignorance and an inability to comprehend otherness politics—”off with their heads!”
Doesn’t this sort of stunt only work on captors with a shred of human compassion?
I guess they’ve been spoiled by decades of protesting American and Japanese democracies…
Well this snide commentary was in poor taste. I blame breathing Chinese air.
I have a couple of weeks vacation coming up. Anybody know where I can get a cheap ticket to Kandahar? I bet I can do some good work and I know my belief in God will protect me.
“I bet I can do some good work and I know my belief in God will protect me.”
Go shoot Bush, kimchipig, it’s just across the border.
If this was confirmed news, for sure, they’re continuing to refuse. Furthermore, the hostages would even try to convert the Taliban to the world of Christianity in Korean saying “이제부터 예수님을 나의 구주로 영접합니다.” while other volunteers of Korean missionary group keep practicing to starving Afghanistan children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIS0rkPMKt0
CBS somehow got an interview with one of the hostages.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....tpop_story
Oh, and 13… I get the feeling you’ll be getting a visit from guys wearing dark suits if you live in the US.
14.
“Hey, look those kids can speak Korean?! I want to go to that church!”
Really, what the heck was that? Rote repetition in Korean? Those kids had no idea what they were saying.
You can repeat something in a foreign language until you’re blue in the face and you still won’t know what you’re saying. You’d think that the missionaries would know better than that since they probably had to go through the same in English class.
PS. There’s no proof the people in the video are the hostage… or that they are in Afghanistan.
If they actually starve to death, then the terrorists lose their bargaining chip… It’s like amerindians killing themselves when enslaved — making them unattractive targets for slavery.
If they succeed, more power to them. But I don’t know anyone who actually died from running prolonged hunger strike…
Bobby Sands and a couple other Irish prisoners back in the 80s.
24 hours of exposure to Korean protest culture and the Taliban will be saying: “Take these people off of our hands and send them back where they came from.”
#16
What the heck? What are you saying?
I linked the video clips as it shows exactly how twisted Korean evangelism go beyond my imagination. Of course, those children had no idea what they were saying. Trying to convert Starving muslim children in Korean with a piece of bread really annoys me at the max.
Of course, they are not the hostages and it is believed to be shot a year ago by one of the Korean volunteers in Afghanistan.
Slim (#19) wrote:
“24 hours of exposure to Korean protest culture and the Taliban will be saying: ‘Take these people off of our hands and send them back where they came from.’”
A bit like O. Henry’s story, “The Ransom of Red Chief.”
Jeffery Hodges
* * *
Maybe they are fasting in a religious sense for deliverance.
Metafilter has an interesting video of Afghan children parroting xtian religious stuff–in Korean:
http://www.metafilter.com/6327.....fghanistan
Somebody posted this site there, don’t know exactly what it’s about but the sentiment is clear: http://allahholy.blogspot.com/
FYI, the allahholy site is blocked to this user in Korea. The police’s site-block message appears instead.
I’m in Seoul and can see the site. Again, I don’t know who made this site, but they seem mightily pissed off about Korean missionaries in Afghanistan.
Thanks for the links, Michael. My already low opinion of the church group just got lower after watching the Youtube video.
I’ve been pursued through subway stations by bible-flipping lunatics saying “holy mother god creator” over and over (apparently one of the latest cults in Korea) and have had people carrying big metal crosses run up to me spewing gibberish about the Jeebus–it’s sometimes entertaining in a circus side-show kind of way, but mainly annoying. I wonder what’s in the psyche of some Koreans to have this fanaticism.
At Youtube, there’s a version with English subtitles that was uploaded by someone in Uzbekistan.
And I should add that I pray for the safe return of the 22 remaining hostages, for their trip was ill-conceived but not ill-intentioned.
Sonagi, their trip was certainly ill-conceived and as for their intentions, plainly offensive to the majority of Afghans, as the Chosun story about the missionaries there last year said: “There have already been angry demonstrations against what Afghans say are the ‘proselytizing’ visitors.”
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....40020.html
What strikes me about all this is that it’s ethnocentric behavior as much as religious fervor, as a Korean professor said in the IHT: “young people going on short-term missions arranged by the churches are often not properly trained in safety issues and learn little about the religious and cultural realities of their host countries.”
http://www.iht.com/articles/20...../korea.php
The concept of religious freedom was brought about by white people after events like the 30 year’s War in Europe.
This is clearly not present in the Islam world.
If they are so upset about Koreans making puppets out of Afghan children, what the fuck may I ask, have Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia have done for these people in Afghanistan and Iraq?
I’m quite certain Iran and Syria sent michinnoms with AK-47’s, bombs, and such to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sure, their methods are insane and illogical, but they deserve death for this? They’ve made irreparable harm? They intend to execute children like this? So, these children committed irreparable sin to Allah?
So, you’re gonna be Allah and carry out the death sentence for Allah. Beautiful.
This is not much different from some fucks in South Africa torturing women for wearing pants, instead of dresses.
Women used to be chastised and frowned upon in South Korea in its 60s as well. For wearing pants. Reason was pants, you could see her goong daeng. Dress hides it. Probably though, men lifted up those dresses to get high. In South Korea, though, I don’t think women got beat and stripped naked in public for wearing ba-ji.
So, they get an unstoppable erection when they see women’s hair, women’s butts. So, a women showing so intentionally made the dude sin, so that woman should be more or less tortured and mutilated. Huh?
Think unsexy thoughts, dude. Why commit the greater crime of assault and murder?
At the very least, these parts of the world need to accept that those men are perverted dicks, and they should accept Religious freedom and tolerance, and respect for women.
White men and Arab men carried swords in one hand, and the Bible or the Koran in the other hand.
Only, the white man came to the understanding of religious freedom.
uh…what is this guy talking about?
#17:
Apparently, quite a few did…
::I don’t mean to make light of the situation, but I must say, this is the most bizarre clash of cultures I’ve ever seen.
I wonder if the next step will be to send Hanryu stars like what happened in Hong Kong…
#20.
I’m saying that the video is quite self serving. Why didn’t they preach to the kids in the kids’ own language? To keep them in the dark about what they were actually saying or to create a video that appeals to Korean nationalistic sentiment?
there is no irreparable sin for Christians. Actually, one is mentioned.
There are so many for the Muslims.
Here’s a little something for you WJK
Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. Koran 3:19
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
#23
Ahah, hanryu in Afghanland! I like it. And I’m not at all suprised by the Ned-Flanders type guitar strumming in the background.
Frankly I’m not bothered by the proselytization. But I do have a lot of negativity toward Korean Christians (and, oh, any revealed reliigion) in general. I’ll say one thing. I know a few Christian missionaries and in their rooms they’d have world maps covered with tacks indicating all the non-Christian regions in the world.
Truth is, with Koreans, if it’s not Jong-il, it’s Yeh-su.
michael, should I take pre-emptive strike against my Pakistani friend, who claims Democracy is not for everyone, yet he asserts that everyone should vote Democrat in the next election?
just kidding.
I don’t even mention religion with him. Because he had a nasty fall out with another friend of mine who was trying to convince him that Islam was wrong by logic. I just watched the fire burn from a far. Pretty much.
People like Obama because he voted against the war. So what? Obama likes the idea of pulling out full, even if Iraqis kill themselves or get help killing each other from Iran and Syria. He might even think it’s a fantastic idea to replace US troops with Syrian and Iranian armies. That’s what I think he means by solving the situation with diplomacy. Can you spell Lebanon?
Obama also thinks US should start sex education very early. Just like Europe.
Overall, I think America is not ready for Obama. Not only the war, but also he’s too liberal. He won because Ditka was being a chicken. However, if Vietnam obsessed America decides to go with Obama over Clinton, you may indeed see a 3rd invasion of Iraq, out of necessity.
LOL thought you’d enjoy that WJK. Always better to not discuss religion, as we are failing to do now
Think you’re right about America not being ready for Obama–along with too young, inexperienced, and for some (not me) too “ethnic.” Not saying he wouldn’t be a good prez, though his speeches sound full of platitudes to me.
WJK (#31) is full on spot.
“The concept of religious freedom was brought about by white people after events like the 30 year’s War in Europe.
This is clearly not present in the Islam world.”
Whether or not they were white perhaps isn’t that important, but as Fantasy noted, I think you made a really good point. Not to say that there haven’t been social/political movements in the Islamic world (and a big and varied world it is) but they did not have the Reformation/Counter Reformation type of experience that Europe did. Arguably they also didn’t experience the more general cultural changes of the Renaissance that preceded it, nor - maybe more importantly - the Enlightenment that followed.
“In South Korea, though, I don’t think women got beat and stripped naked in public for wearing ba-ji.”
I remember a time when women were assaulted and called whores for wearing shorts or bearing their midriff…and I’ve been in Korea for a decade.
“In South Korea, though, I don’t think women got beat and stripped naked in public for wearing ba-ji.”
“I remember a time when women were assaulted and called whores for wearing shorts or bearing their midriff…and I’ve been in Korea for a decade.”
Or smoking in public.
#44.
Yeah. I also remember when there would suddenly be only guys in a bar because all the single women had gone home before the curfew that their parents had imposed on them, which was usually 10pm.
“I remember a time when women were assaulted and called whores for wearing shorts or bearing their midriff…and I’ve been in Korea for a decade.”
I recall back in the mid-90s a case of two women arrested in Gwangju for wearing tops that exposed their midriffs.
“there is no irreparable sin for Christians. Actually, one is mentioned. “
The one impardonable sin for Christians is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:
Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come “(Matthew 12:31-32).
Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation—because they said, “He has an unclean spirit” (Mark 3:28-30).
And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven (Luke 12:10).
“Sonagi, their trip was certainly ill-conceived and as for their intentions, plainly offensive to the majority of Afghans, “
Agreed. And plenty of non-Afghans, including Koreans, found the trip objectionable, too.
ps: It must be acknowledged that there’s nothing truly reprehensible or “crazy” about anything shown in the video posted by michael. A bunch of happy cheery kids are a part of a very rote and daily religious service, something any Christian kid goes through during Church. I don’t see willful agenda imposed on a bunch of unwitting kids, so much as I do Christians doing what they do best, which is praising Jesus - and not in the mode of indoctrination but as a routine expression of their spritual zest for life, as in the mode of culture. True, in this case, it involves a bunch of kids who don’t know what they’re saying, but what about such is so egregious or “crazy” (in the moral sense of extremely offensive) as the title of the video has it? Much more than the indiscretion of Christians proselytzing at all in any form on Muslim soil, I am disturbed by the copious amounts of negative spin given to this video. The degree of racism and irrationality evident in the comments section at youtube is always disappointing. One would think he were watching a video of Koreans having Afghan kids renounce and insult Muhommad and all of Islam. This is not the case.
ABCDEFG does have a bit of a point… After all, getting kids to sing hymns and chant ‘praise Jesus’ without really knowing what they’re saying might be creepy, but it’s at least a couple steps above indoctrinating them into becoming martyrs for Allah (or whatever). It’s not the best thing to do, but I’m sure it’s a lot better than what the Taliban would do to these kids if they got their hands on them.
Of course, better yet would be for both sides to shrug the medievalist attitudes and beliefs in hokey superstitions, but I don’t suppose that’s going to happen for quite some time yet.
Only, the white man came to the understanding of religious freedom.
There was an understanding of religious freedom in ancient India, hundreds of years before Christ. Also, the Mongol Empire allowed religious plurality as an administrative policy.
it’s interesting to see so many here condemn koreans for not knowing about muslim culture and their religion, and yet, these very same people were the ones who celebrated (and defended) a danish cartoon. how ironic.
and is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that there are some here who actually want to see harm done to the hostages not because they were spreading the word, but because they’re koreans?
“it’s interesting to see so many here condemn koreans for not knowing about muslim culture and their religion, and yet, these very same people were the ones who celebrated (and defended) a danish cartoon. how ironic. “
There is a difference between defending the value of freedom of speech in a country where it is enshrined in law and going to a foreign country and violating its stern religious laws by proselytizing. No irony in respecting local laws, Pawi.
“After all, getting kids to sing hymns and chant ‘praise Jesus’ without really knowing what they’re saying might be creepy, but it’s at least a couple steps above indoctrinating them into becoming martyrs for Allah (or whatever). It’s not the best thing to do, but I’m sure it’s a lot better than what the Taliban would do to these kids if they got their hands on them.”
The relativity argument does not apply. Nobody is equating the missionaries with the Taliban. We know the Taliban are a bunch of murderous religious nuts, but we expect Christian missionaries, who aim to help the people they come into contact with, to improve people’s lives not endanger them.
Actually, I don’t expect Christian missionaries to help anyone. After all, the missionary movement has long gone to places where Christianity was persecuted and outlawed (since its inception, really) and encouraged people to convert. Really, endangering people’s lives has been a Christian tradition since the original apostles. I don’t think the early x-ians cared that their converts faced persecution for their conversion, and I don’t think any modern missionaries really care about similar persecution, whatever oppressive society they might be working in — such as Afghanistan or China. After all, as long as these people die accepting the validity of a mythological figure, then they go to heaven, and everything’s kosher, right?
“and is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that there are some here who actually want to see harm done to the hostages not because they were spreading the word, but because they’re koreans?”
I think it’s just you. There are people who post here who can be very critical of certain aspects of Korean culture, society, whatever. Sometimes they’re very blunt, and maybe sometimes they’re wrong. However, I don’t think anybody here is happy to see unarmed/helpless people being murdered or threatened with murder. Feel free to show us an example of people posting here who wants to see these people get hurt.
“and is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that there are some here who actually want to see harm done to the hostages not because they were spreading the word, but because they’re koreans?”
Nah, it’s just you.
In any case, one of the reasons the Taliban hasn’t executed them is because they want to make a point about Christianity. The hostages went there with the attitude that death would be an acceptable outcome as it would make them martyrs. Imagine the message it gives about their own faith when they are begging for their lives.
Oh, and Pawi. As much as I dislike proselytizing, which is mainly a Christian thing and Korean Christians are only second to Americans in their fervor to do so, nobody deserves to be killed for it.
#53,
I wonder. The average Korean Christian missionary probably believes the world is going to end within the next 50 years - just, btw, as Paul and the earliest Christians did! What we see is a cycle of reckless proselytization motivated by faulty eschatological expectation on repeat. It’s a tradition indeed.
That said, there is a difference here. How effective and naturally appealing would Christianity be to an Arab in a Muslim society, anyway? After all, Christianity may have something to offer to those of a Confucian/Buddhist society, but in a Muslim society, it ain’t nothing but the white, secularized, watered-down, and antiquated version of a religion and God that Muslims already believe in. It’s redundant, almost like sending Korean missionaries to the Vatican.
One could argue that the shiite-sunni wars may have the same effect as the 30 years war did in the West…
Better a few centuries late than never, guys!
Coyner’s Comment: The following is from a Peace Corps Volunteer from the 60’s or 80’s in Korea who has made a bona fide career as a professional international aid worker since then. The following is a professional, if somewhat personally biased, perspective on the Saemmul Presbyterian Church folly in Afghanistan:
CHURCH TOURISTS
After being in the development/aid industry for a couple of decades I think I have a fairly good handle on how the system works. Since I started in this industry I have worked in Indochina during the exodus of boat people and subsequent refugee camps, in South Asia after the tsunami, in Kosovo after the war, in Africa after a famine, in Cambodia after the genocide. In all cases the aid was predictable; the donors descended and dumped money on the known and proven players who took the money and started working to address the needs. The individuals who are on the ground doing the work in such cases are known. They have been to other hot spots doing the same thing. They know each other because it is a small community and a tight profession. In all cases the donors and players were multinational – the US is almost always the biggest spender and biggest implementer, but the Japanese, Australians, British, New Zealanders, Norwegians, and Canadians were there. So were the Dutch. So were the Germans. The Koreans were not.
The Koreans have never been involved in relief and development. It was only very reluctantly that the Koreans had anything to do with the Indochinese refugees during the 80s. When a Korean flag vessel picked up refugees on the high seas (i.e. Vietnamese) they were allowed a free ride to South Korea. Then it got interesting. Few people remember that there was a refugee camp in Pusan where Vietnamese boat people sat behind barbed wire for years. When, in about 1991, South Korea established diplomatic ties with Vietnam, that barbed wire camp was quietly emptied and razed in the lead up to the official normalization. To my knowledge, that was the most direct involvement Korea has had in aid and development in the past three decades. Otherwise the Koreans have had a different agenda and have been busy doing other things.
So it strikes me as ludicrous that a church group from the suburbs has the audacity to gather up a bunch of young women and throw them to the wolves wearing matching ball caps and T-shirts. This is not aid. This is not development. This is church-based tourism gone horribly wrong. If the Koreans call it anything else, then they are liars or have been mislead.
Afghanistan is an active war zone. Aid organizations are very careful in who they send in to Afghanistan because the stress levels and working conditions are extreme. I know of several organizations that, even now, maintain a strict policy of forcing development workers to get on a plane and get out of there every 5th or 6th week for R&R. They have professional counselors assigned to the staff. They have bodyguards. They work in walled compounds with razor wire on the top of the wall. They can’t fraternize with the locals because they can’t get out of the compound. The level of frustration among the professionals is high because they often feel that their hands are tied and they can accomplish very very little in Afghanistan. A colleague worked there for 18 months recently and he was responsible for revitalizing an irrigation system that would provide water to 600 farmers across a huge swath of the country. In 18 months he was prohibited from visiting the actual work on the ground – he had to sit in a walled compound and manage the work through other people without ever having seen the actual canals and ditches and pumps. He looked at digital photos of the work – that’s all he saw.
Another colleague took a position there after dreaming of work in Afghanistan for more than a decade. His one ambition was to find a way to get there. When, sitting in my office, I told him that he had an offer to go he broke down and wept with unexpected joy. Six weeks after getting to the place that had been his professional dream he packed up and left. He was unwilling to live in such a dangerous environment with a young wife and new child back home.
Afghanistan has lost the focus of the media because of Iraq, but it is still there and the bullets are still flying. In fact, the invasion force is losing ground and the Taliban is building strength. Things are not going well. The outlook is bad. The stability that was there 18 months ago is gone. Many aid organizations have packed up and pulled out to wait until it is safer to return.
It is into this environment that the Korean church is sending their tour groups. They are not development workers. They are not medical missionaries. They are short term tourists in matching ball caps and T shirts who stay huddled together in a pack and screech Korean at each other and eat ramyon from their suitcase and take photos on their mobile phones as they ham it up by holding up the “Korea-is-two” sign and grinning at the camera. These are kids. These are mono-linguistic tourists who would be a lot better off staying clear of the world’s danger zones and out of the paths of bullets. The combination of arrogance and ignorance shown by the leaders of that suburban church is astounding. Their group has no credentials that would justify their presence in Afghanistan. Their church has no track record in the development industry – nobody in Korea has a track record in the development industry.
Now one of the church tourists is dead. The authorities of that church must be held responsible for this completely avoidable killing. There was absolutely no reason for those tourists to be in a war zone and the decision to go there displays a complete and total lack of understanding of world affairs, regional tensions, or how aid is delivered in such locations. The claim that some of the church tourists had mastered local dialects is laughable. Knowing how Koreans measure their mastery of English, I’m sure their mastery of local Afghan dialects must be equally as flimsy.
The Koreans should leave the aid and development to the professionals and send their church tourism groups to more hospitable and receptive venues such as Cheju-do or Sorak-san. Inevitably they will treat the murdered tourist as a martyr for the faith when, in fact, they ought to focus on the church leaders and recognize that they are accomplices in the murder.
[Footnote: Now that I have learned that the ROK Ministry of Foreign Affairs tried to block the church tourists, and the tourists countered by threatening to sue the government, I am even more livid. Those idiots need to be jailed.]
^ Thank you for the copy-paste, TomCoyner. But why does it read like the author’s been browsing this blog and Michael Hurt’s blog? Except for the few facts here and there, the above reads like a regurgitation. Also, is the author a missionary? Is the author working in or worked in Afghanistan? Please tell us about the source of the text.
To clarify, I’m asking for MORE information about the author. For all I know, he’s never interacted with a Korean missionary personally and, thus, besides the information he includes about Vietnamese refugees, international facts here and there (presuming they check out) about Korea’s involvement in aid and development, his account about Korean missionaries in Afghanistan may be entirely secondary - and worse based on the comments and entries of these blogs.
‘The following is from a Peace Corps Volunteer from the 60’s or 80’s in Korea who has made a bona fide career as a professional international aid worker since then. The following is a professional, if somewhat personally biased…’
biased? you got that right. the post is a hit piece written by the same type of person you’d find here on this board. perhaps, the author is the same author of that sceed about pyongchang that appeared in the atimes. in any case, he got han written all over him.
‘but the Japanese…’
a sure sign he’s just a korea basher. NEXT!
“…screech Korean at each other…”
First-class wankery.
To immediately answer a few questions about my earlier posting, I don’t believe the author follows this blog - but I could be wrong.
The essay was intended as a letter to a mutual friend so I’m really not a liberty at this time to disclose much more.
The man, I should say, is not anti-Korean but he has some serious concerns about amateurs running amok in the international aid arena.
This perspective, incidentally, was shared by a Canadian friend of mine who served in a professional aid coordinator capacity in Rwanda and found spiritually motivated do-gooders often getting in the way — and sucking up limited resources — from international aid providers who were having enough challenges without volunteers jumping into the scene.
Regardless, I will see what more I can disclose regarding the essayist.
Hi Tom - Quality post, your friend’s letter. Not sure why some people could not understand it, but it seemed clear and to the point to me.
Thank you for sharing the letter, Tom. It painted a vivid picture of the extreme conditions under which foreign aid workers live and labor.
The letter raises an interesting point - on the one hand S.Korea is as a nation almost completely indifferent to humanitarian issues even in N.Korea, let alone in other countries. Not that S.Korean people in general have much sympathy for the downtrodden even in their own country. If they did they would vote for a different kind of government (and taxes would be much higher). And there wouldn’t be Not In My Back Yard protests whenever someone tries to build a home for the handicapped.
On the other hand there is a growing tendency of people to engage in photo-op type charity work, and social/charity work is a hugely popular major at universities among students who otherwise show no signs of a social conscience. Many Koreans I know make a point of telling me that they do charity work or that this would be their dream career if only they could afford to give up the one they already have, etc.
What is going on here? I get the impression that they are interested in charity only if they can be the ones directly dispensing it and looking saintly, but perhaps this is too cynical of me.
Apparently, there is a certain amount of prestige associated with one’s church sending so-called “aid workers” to a war-torn country. It can get competitive.
I don’t know whether this is unique to Korea or not.
I’d like to thank Tom for pasting the letter which should be illuminating for those with no experience in the aid game.
While I don’t think this church outing was something I would have gone on, or advised anyone to take, there a couple of lines in the letter which demonstrate how the professional aid community operates.
“In all cases the aid was predictable; the donors descended and dumped money on the known and proven players who took the money and started working to address the needs. The individuals who are on the ground doing the work in such cases are known. They have been to other hot spots doing the same thing. They know each other because it is a small community and a tight profession.”
“I know of several organizations that, even now, maintain a strict policy of forcing development workers to get on a plane and get out of there every 5th or 6th week for R&R. They have professional counselors assigned to the staff. They have bodyguards. They work in walled compounds with razor wire on the top of the wall. They can’t fraternize with the locals because they can’t get out of the compound.”
“These are mono-linguistic tourists who would be a lot better off staying clear of the world’s danger zones and out of the paths of bullets.”
I got out of the aid game for these very reasons.”
“Professional” aid workers rarely speak the local language, always buy brand new expensive vehicles for their occasional jaunts to the villages, enjoy fly-in-fly-out Med conditions behind barb-wire, draw +US$100,000 tax-free salaries, enjoy the services of qualified masseurs upon arrival, etc.
These “professional” aid workers are indeed members of a traveling circus, the costs of their 5-star package trips to scenes of suffering consume most of the resources donated by well-meaning tax payers (gov’t aid) or private contributors (private aid organizations).
Very little gets to the ground.
RORT, FRAUD, CORRUPTION
Thats without getting into the issue of their “aid projects” ,
top-down aid projects by “professionals” (read colonials) with little idea about the communities in which they work rarely succeed.
These “professional” aid organizations have long lost their ability to act as neutral actors in conflict zones (much like journalists) because they lack the human resources to work effectively in the required communities.
Ive got no more time for the “professional” aid workers that make a career of 5-star junkets to some of the places of greatest suffering on earth, than I do for this group of happy-clappies.
This “professional” should have a look at himself before questioning the right of others to contribute to those in need, even if it was Taekwondo performances and Kumbaya.
I’ve heard that too, alethia - that with all these Presbyterian churches vying for members their only way to survive is to outdo the competition in flashy charity stunts. Otherwise they have to fold up shop and (heaven forbid)let their congregation join another one.
There is also a problem in that the modern Christian’s values are scarcely different from the values of humanism. In fact, it is humanist values that force today’s Christians to read their Bible so selectively, dismissing (with various amusing theological acrobatics) all the passages urging people to abuse the mentally ill, to bash their enemies’ children’s heads against the rocks, etc.
The problem is this: if non-Christians are being kind to their fellow men too, how does the Christian excel in God’s eyes? He does this by getting up at the crack of dawn to go to church (a favored rite in Korea) and by going to great self-sacrificing lengths to perform his acts of kindness. It is evidently holier to spend 2 thousand bucks to fly to Afghanistan and hand out Lotte cookies than to donate 2 thousand bucks from the comfort of one’s home to a qualified relief organization.
Given some of the comments regarding my posting of a letter entitled “Church Tourists” - comment #59, I have contacted my friend who originally received the posted letter for some details on the author.
I might first clarify that the letter’s author was not in the Peace Corps, in Korea or anywhere else. (Sorry about that erroneous introduction.) And he is most definitely NOT a missionary.
His academic background is in development and aid, and except for a few years spent in Korea in the 1990s, he has worked for NGOs in that field in several Asian locations as well as in Kosovo (as he describes).
He is currently working for a New England-based NGO in development in South Asia, but not Afghanistan; I’m not aware that he has visited Afghanistan.
His comments on the Korean character are based on first-hand experience — not only here on the peninsula, but also on numerous encounters in other countries, with Koreans from both sides of the DMZ.
(I might add that he is not at all fond of what Korean entrepreneurs and the tourists they bring in have done to Siem Reap, Cambodia.)
To the best of my knowledge, he does not follow Marmot’s Hole or other Korea blogs. He comes up with his own thoughts.
I hope this helps clarify who is this person and from where he is coming.
For what it may be worth…
Herod (#70): Do you have any chapter and verse references for those passages in the Bible that advocate “abusing the mentally ill,” etc.?
…Because while Christanity has been subject to humanistic trends for several centuries now, that resulting question of self-identity is a much larger problem for liberal churches that have abandoned belief in the inerrancy of Scripture. Many Bible-believing conservative churches may have their own issues to wrestle with, but how to set themselves apart from non-Christians is not one of them.
the guy’s a korea basher plain and simple. that many of you think he’s the greatest is not a surprise at all, you know, birds of a feather and all. anyway….
‘The Koreans have never been involved in relief and development…’
a lie. according to nation master, sk is in the top 20 when it comes to aid donors. in fact, just last year, korea increased it’s aid to africa to almost a hundred million. korea was also one of the top donors for the tsunami that hit se asia a couple years ago. and how many of you remember korean rescue teams saving those taiwanese folk right after they had an earthquake? yeah, i know, not many of you. mr coyner, tell your friend he’s a liar.
‘vietnamese boat people behind barbed wire…’
yes, and? they were illegal immigrants. maybe korea should have housed them in hotels with room service. and i wonder, did mr coyner’s friend visit the refugee camps along the thai border? the fact of the matter is, the author used embellished language to villify a people he obviously despises.
‘he doesn’t hate koreans or korea…’ my coyner
uh, yes, he does.
Sonagi, Michael, and abcdef…,
To all whom it concerns,
I have this Korean friend (person will remain namelss) who works at the Afghanistan Embassy here in Seoul. So, over the past coupleof years or so, I have visited there many times, hung out with some Aghan diplomats and others many times. This is my experience:
The government tried many times to prevent missionaries from going to that country on Church trips for whatever reason, that is according to the folks that work at the embassy. Sometimes they (government folks) convinced the church goers not to go, and at other times, they convinced the embassy to deny them visas, which means poor Afghanistan loses money and aid. At least that is how the people working at there at the embassy talked about it.
One more thing. The folks at the embassy, to their credit, were instantly deny visas to church groups, if the pastor in charge, “seemed inexperienced about the culture of Afghanistan” in the words of one person there at the embassy.
My conclusion is this: The church groups that manage to get in the country are experienced about missionary, aid work, speak some languages, been there before.
Any thoughts???
“it’s interesting to see so many here condemn koreans for not knowing about muslim culture and their religion, and yet, these very same people were the ones who celebrated (and defended) a danish cartoon. how ironic.”
Pawikirogi, #51:
Pawi,
the Danes did not distribute their cartoons in Afghanistan or any other Muslim country - they published it in the local newspaper of the Danish city of Aarhus (pop. 250,000).
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