Too bad there isn’t any God or Allah; only assholes with fictitious books. These Islamic murderers will suffer the same fate as us all, to become worm food and return back into earthly constituent parts. You could say I’m a non-believer.

I’m with you on this one, although I wouldn’t summarize life in terms of “worm food”. Then again, that reduction is at least more truthful than the ethical notions of an Arab having insider connections with an angel named Gabriel or the notion of a Jew with super powers.

cm: I don’t understand why this also has to become a race issue with you.

Perhaps you’ll ask the same question of below Korean expert quoted by the BBC and obviously linking race and nationalism to this issue as well:

“Pastors of big churches want to show off that they are doing something great for Christianity. Korea is a small country that has achieved a strong economy, and it wants to show its success to the world,” said Chung-shin Park, Professor of Korean church history.

“The church’s ambition is to overtake the US and become the world’s number one exporter of missionaries within the next two decades.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asi.....915268.stm

Is Park out of line in mentioning nationalism? Is the BBC?

But anyway, it’s nice to know that you have such a big kind heart.

My sympathies are reserved for those that don’t put the noose around their own necks while whistling at the hangman, urging him to get to work.

The Disbelievers
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

[2.250] And when they went out against Jalut and his forces they said: Our Lord, pour down upon us patience, and make our steps firm and assist us against the unbelieving people.

I\’ve kept notes and copied some scripture from the Koran relating to the speciall issue of jihad and inter-faith politics, from the time I was reading about Islam a few years ago (perhaps piqued by 9/11 and because in general I find it\’s within my interest to study religious literaure for the sake of being a more effective atheist). Judging from what I ve copied, my conclusion back then is that Islam preaches patience (and justice by God) before aggression (justice by man). This seems to be the best interpretation.

Consider the following passage; 2:190 is at ends with 191, but 192 and 193 make it clear what the context (and meaning) for a bellicose line such as 191 really is:

[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[2.192] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
[2.194] The Sacred month for the sacred month and all sacred things are (under the law of) retaliation; whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and be careful (of your duty) to Allah and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
[2.195] And spend in the way of Allah and cast not yourselves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others); surely Allah loves the doers of good.

^ However, the thing with Islam is that it\’s explicitly militant. There\’s no holding back of punches, no ambiguity. Relgious guidelines concerning retribution against active disbelief is pretty darn clear.

Other passages that I thought was relevant at the time:

[3.177] Surely those who have bought unbelief at the price of faith shall do no harm at all to Allah, and they shall have a painful chastisement.
[3.178] And let not those who disbelieve think that Our granting them respite is better for their souls; We grant them respite only that they may add to their sins; and they shall have a disgraceful chastisement.

[70.42] Therefore leave them alone to go on with the false discourses and to sport until they come face to face with that day of theirs with which they are threatened;
[70.43] The day on which they shall come forth from their graves in haste, as if they were hastening on to a goal,
[70.44] Their eyes cast down; disgrace shall overtake them; that is the day which they were threatened with.

[3.20] But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
[3.21] Surely (as for) those who disbelieve in the communications of Allah and slay the prophets unjustly and slay those among men who enjoin justice, announce to them a painful chastisement.

[3.119] Lo! you are they who will love them while they do not love you, and you believe in the Book (in) the whole of it; and when they meet you they say: We believe, and when they are alone, they bite the ends of their fingers in rage against you. Say: Die in your rage; surely Allah knows what is in the breasts.

[3.196] Let it not deceive you that those who disbelieve go to and fro in the cities fearlessly.
[3.197] A brief enjoyment! then their abode is hell, and evil is the resting-place.
[3.198] But as to those who are careful of (their duty to) their Lord, they shall have gardens beneath which rivers flow, abiding in them; an entertainment from their Lord, and that which is with Allah is best for the righteous.
[3.199] And most surely of the followers of the Book there are those who believe in Allah and (in) that which has been revealed to you and (in) that which has been revealed to them, being lowly before Allah; they do not take a small price for the communications of Allah; these it is that have their reward with their Lord; surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
[3.200] O you who believe! be patient and excel in patience and remain steadfast, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, that you may be successful.

[3.167] And that He might know the hypocrites; and it was said to them: Come, fight in Allah\’s way, or defend yourselves. They said: If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you. They were on that day much nearer to unbelief than to belief. They say with their mouths what is not in their hearts, and Allah best knows what they conceal.
[3.168] Those who said of their brethren whilst they (themselves) held back: Had they obeyed us, they would not have been killed. Say: Then avert death from yourselves if you speak the truth.
[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah\’s way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

If they kill a bunch of females (from a country that doesn’t have a history of imperialism in the Middle East), then the Taliban would loose a lot of respect, even in the Muslim world.

Don’t forget that the Taliban are much the same people who were notorious for beating, imprisoning, and even publicly executing women for various offenses against their interpretation of Sharia. How much do you think they will hesitate before pulling the trigger on a woman or group of women who were openly attempting to subvert members of the faith? The main reason why any of these people are still alive is because they have a perceived usefulness - whether that is to secure the withdrawal of the Korean troops, to secure the release of Taliban captives, or to get money that can be used to carry on their religious war. Sadly, the missionaries here fell right into their laps, and might just end up creating even more destruction and suffering with their actions (albeit indirectly).

#54:

If the Koran is anything like the Bible, I’m sure it’s full of contradictory quotes that can be used to justify just about any abhorrent practice under the sun. Too bad far too many people put far too much stock in both books.