Here is some of the latest from the Korean hostage situation:
- Korean government officials are apparently participating in the Afghan government committee handling the crisis [Yonhap News, Korean].
- Local tribal elders have reportedly made progress in talks with the kidnappers [Newsis/AP, Korean].
- The Taliban have extended the deadline for a trade by 24 hours to 1430 GMT. [BBC]
- Yonhap (Korean) wonders whether Korea has the diplomatic clout to force Kabul to accept a deal similar to the one it OK’d under Italian pressure to free an Italian journalist in Taliban captivity earlier this year.
- The JoongAng Ilbo looks at the netizen clash over the kidnappings. As you can guess, some are upset that the hostages are being bashed, while others point out that the victims brought this on themselves.
- The JoongAng Ilbo piece also mentions some of the stuff on the Cyworld page of one of hostages. Yes, I found it. No, I won’t link it. But if you read Korean, you know what’s on it.
- Then there’s this photo taken by the group on their departure from Korea. Speechless. The site also details the group’s long passage to Afghanistan (note: this is on a blog site, and I can’t confirm if the chronology is accurate) — the Foreign Ministry warned Bundang Saemmul Church several times and even canceled the group’s airline tickets the first time they tried to buy them (leading the church to threaten to sue the state). Upon learning of their departure, the ministry even sent a chartered plane to bring the group back, which they refused. The church also apparently told the Foreign Ministry to stop worrying about them since the group would leave behind wills.
- Then there’s always the discussion in my earlier post.
UPDATE 1:
- A Taliban command spokesman told Afghan Islamic Press (via Yonhap, Korean) that the Korean hostages have been split up into groups, and are guarded by suicide bombers under orders to detonate if a rescue operation is launched. On a positive note, the spokesman said the hostages are being treated well. “We’re not Christians or Jews who sic dogs on people,” he said. No, you’re Muslims, who apparently take hostages and guard them with suicide bombers.
UPDATE 2
- The Taliban is now calling for direct talks with the Korean government. The afore mentioned Taliban spokesman said talks with the Afghan government were headed for failure, and that the Korean government would have to talk directly with them. He also said the hostages were being kept comfortable — they’ve been able to bathe and change clothes, and given chocolate and biscuits for breakfast. Eggs and meat would be given later, he said. The spokesman also warned, however, that if a resolution to the situation wasn’t reached by this afternoon, the hostages would be killed.
UPDATE 3:
- The Kookmin Ilbo (Korean) points out that obvious — NATO states would not look positively upon a prisoner swap. It noted that the United States launched an attack a full-day attack near Musa Qala, Helmand Province on Sunday, indicating that regardless of the hostage situation, the United States would take necessary military measures. The German chancellor, meanwhile, said Germany would not surrender to or be threatened by the Taliban, even with a German hostage possibly alive in Taliban hands. The chancellor even said Germany couldn’t rule out boosting its troop presence in Afghanistan. Britain and France are taking similar positions on the matter. The paper explained that unlike the Iraq War, the Afghan War was not a war started unilaterally by the Americans, and there was international consensus that the Taliban must be crushed.
UPDATE 4:
- AP is reporting that the Taliban have upped their demands. Or so says a lawmaker from Ghazni province, who said the Taliban have demanded by phone the release of all Taliban captives in the province. Qari Yousef Ahmadi, who claims to speak for the Taliban, however, denies this is the case, and says the demand still remains at 23 Taliban prisoners.
- The familes of the hostages, meanwhile, have issued a statement apologizing for the distress they’ve caused the nation, and that they understood the government was working hard to bring them home. In the press conference that followed, family members stressed the fact that the team went to Afghanistan to do medical work, NOT engage in religious activities. The head of the family group, the brother of hostage Cha Seong-min, said, “Our family members went to Afghanistan as members of a volunteer group, not as part of a church.” He also said the group sponsoring the visit was not Bundang Saemmul Church, but the Korea Foundation for World Aid, a Christian relief NGO that does a lot of work with North Korea. He also said that missionary work in Afghanistan would have been impossible because of language difficulties. I don’t know what to think, or more specifically, I don’t know what to think about the clashing claims as to which organization put the trip together.
- OK, now we know why there was confusion about the numbers — apparently, five of the hostages speak local Dari and/or Pashto, leading their Taliban captives to confuse them for Afghans. Actually, I heard from a coworker this morning that more specifically, they spoke Dari (a dialect of Persian), leading their captives to confuse them for Hazara, who may (or may not) be descendants of soldiers of Uncle Genghis’s army who settled down in Afghanistan. Here’s a photo of famous Hazara Gen. Mohammad Musa, Pakistan’s Army Chief of Staff during the 1960s — you could see how such a mistake could be made, especially if we consider that most Taliban are Pashto speakers who might not necessarily recognize non-native Dari when it’s spoken.
UPDATE 5:
- The Afghan government is playing hardball, apparently [Yonhap, Korean]. You can read the English version in the AP report linked in Update 4, but to quote, Afghan Deputy Interior Minister Abdul Khaliq told AP and Reuters that Kabul was not prepared to make a deal “against our national interest and our constitution.” And, to be frank, Seoul hasn’t exactly made it clear what’s in it for Kabul if they bite the bullet and give in to the Taliban’s demands. Not to put too fine a point on this, but Seoul’s contributions to the fight against the Taliban are rather underwhelming (which is not in any way, shape or form a slam on the fine men and women in the ROK military stationed in Afghanistan, but their numbers are limited, as is their mission), so there’s only so much pressure Seoul could put on Kabul to make a deal. You’ve got to pay to play, so to speak, and Seoul hasn’t. Seoul’s not going to get a lot of sympathy and/or support from NATO members with troops on the ground in Afghanistan, either.The most Seoul could probably do is threaten to pull its 210 soldiers out early, but seeing how Afghan officials have used just about every opportunity to express their displeasure at how this mess started, Kabul might very well respond by telling them not to let the door hit them in the ass on the way out. Bluntly put, Seoul may have to come up with the Mother of All Aid Packages and/or a commitment to deploy combat troops to the country if they’re going to get Kabul to release anybody.
- I shouldn’t have to say this, but as mind-bogglingly stupid as I believe the hostages were, stupidity should not be a capital offense. Nobody in their right mind should want to see these people harmed in any way, especially by a bunch of medieval savages who gave aid and comfort to the people who slaughtered 3,000 innocent people in New York and Washington DC on Sept. 11, 2001 and work to this day to destroy the best chance Afghanistan has had for a future in decades. We all hope and pray (well, if you’re the praying type) that the hostages come home safe.
UPDATE 6:
- Ahead of the third deadline, a Taliban spokesman reiterated his group’s demands for direct talks with the Korean government [Yonhap, Korean]. Speaking to the Afghan Islamic Press, the spokesman warned that his group could wait no longer, and that if the issue wasn’t solved by the deadline, all the hostages would be killed. He said his group was in negotiations with the Afghan government, but he didn’t expect anything to result from them.
UPDATE 7:
- The Hankyoreh Shinmun, meanwhile, said the Bush administration possesses “decisive influence” over whether Kabul releases Taliban prisoners, as demanded (read: if Kabul refuses to budge and the hostages get killed, it’s Bush’s fault). The Hani pointed out that the United States, at least officially, does not negotiate with terrorists, and it has been deafeningly silent about the Korean hostage situation. In fact, in Sunday’s broadcast with FOX News and CNN, White House homeland security adviser Fran Townsend didn’t even mention the hostage situation when discussing Al-Qaeda, but did say the primary American mission was to protect Americans, and that all options were on the table, indicating further military operations were a possibility. The Hani said, however, that the United States doesn’t try to stop allies from making deals to free hostages out of fear of spreading anti-American sentiment. When the Italians wanted to make a deal for their reporter, the White House said it didn’t negotiate it with terrorists, and didn’t advise others to do so, and when the deal was struck, the White House condemned it. With a US general commanding NATO forces in Afghanistan, however, the White House had to have known the swap was going down, observed the Hani.
UPDATE 8:
- The Taliban has given the Korean government another 24 hours. The Taliban is also claiming that the Afghan government is blocking direct negotiations between the militia and Korean government negotiators (which, of course, the Hankyoreh Shinmun will blame on Evil Bush ™ — see above)
UPDATE 9:
- Now the JoongAng Ilbo, now, looks at why the United States is taking a hard line against the Taliban, and like the Hani, points out that White House homeland security adviser Fran Townsend didn’t say a thing about the Korean hostages during his Sunday press conference, not even the usual “we hope they come home safe” line. The JoongAng said this appeared to be because expressions of excessive concern might harm the chances of the hostages being released. The paper also noted that US approval was “absolutely necessary” for Kabul to swap its Taliban prisoners for the Korean hostages (read: if Kabul refuses to budge and the hostages get killed, it’s Bush’s fault). it does note, however, that the United States has, at least on one occasion, given in to kidnappers’ demands — in January, five female Iraqi prisoners were freed to win the release of a female Christian Science Monitor reporter taken captive by an armed group in Baghdad (read: if Kabul doesn’t release the Taliban captives, it’s because the US is selfish and only cares about its own people, not Koreans). You’ll note very little in the way of analyzing the obvious — Italy had clout over Kabul (and the US) because it actually contributes significantly in Afghanistan, while Korea hasn’t because it doesn’t. Interestingly, the State Department today did issue a statement calling on the kidnappers to immediately release the 23 Koreans.
UPDATE 10:
- The Seoul Sinmun (Korean) reports that the hostages’ families have been hurt by all the nasty comments being made by netizens. In particular, with some rather ill-advised photos taken by one of the hostages floating around, the netizens onslaught has been pretty fierce, with the Bundang Saemmul Church homepage, the Korea Foundation for World Aid, and the Cyworld blog of one of the hostages being particularly targeted.
UPDATE 11:
- An Afghan serving an an intermediary between Korean negotiators and the Taliban said Tuesday that the kidnappers are asking for US$100,000 to allow Korean officials to
seespeak by phone with the hostages. - Meanwhile, Yonhap (Korean) — citing an Afghan source — reports that the health of some of the hostages may be deteriorating.
UPDATE 12:
- Now even Cheong Wa Dae is asking netizens to stop condemning the hostages. A presidential spokesman said today that while there could be several opinions about the kidnapping issue, now was the time for citizens and netizens to encourage “with warm hearts” the families of the kidnap victims. Also interesting, he noted that while Korea was cooperating with allies (i.e., the United States) on several levels to bring Korean citizens home safely, the government didn’t not judge that it was necessary to request high-level cooperation.
- Michael Hurt has written a very reasonable post on the kidnappings over at Metropolitician.
UPDATE 13:
- OK, now this is weird. Japan’s NHK, quoting a member of the Afghan government negotiating team, reports that the Taliban has pledged not to kill the Korean hostages. [Kookmin Ilbo, Korean] Yonhap reports, however, that the Taliban said that while it hopes for a peaceful resolution to this crisis, if there was no agreement by the deadline (11:30 Korea time), it would kill all the hostages.
114 Comments
Then there’s this photo taken by the group on their departure from Korea. Speechless.
Care to explain for us non-Hangul reading readers?
Sure, it’s a notification at Incheon International Airport advising passengers to avoid travel to Afghanistan because of intelligence that the Taleban was looking to kidnap Koreans to exchange for captured Taleban.
Here’s the original SBS report:
http://news.sbs.co.kr/section_.....1000287190
maybe this will bring tourists to Korea. Korea. Where people over-do it. I think it works better than hub, sparkle,…
I would guess that someone is going to pay a hefty fine and/or spend time in jail.
Don’t worry about them because they have wills? That flippant statement has sure come back to haunt them.
That is, if they are fortunate enough to make it back.
I would still call them missionaries, though. They chose this way.
What irks is the nerve of the families to call for total withdrawal, in vibe with Korean liberals.
No matter how this ends, hopefully for good, with all 23 living, this event will set an example to ROK and US Korean churches.
I think the church should be fined up to $500k, and face jail time on the next offense. Public reaction in the ROK to this event is very unsympathetic compared to Sun Il Kim’s case. ROK could have used their Ministries resources to better use than this preventable event.
By the way, ROK citizenship doesn’t help much when you’re abroad and in trouble. Relative to US citizenship. There certainly is less clout.
#5. By they, I meant the missionaries (if they survive) and people at the church who organized the trip.
That one quote from these terrorists really pisses me off. As if giving someone chocolate and biscuits somehow balances out holding their lives for ransom. “We’re not Christians or Jews who sic dogs on people,” he said. He IS THE DOG, and he has been sicced on a group of naive innocents by his ideologue handlers?
“…and people at the church who organized the trip.”
THAT is who I want to see fried. Zealot missionaries who have total disregard for their own well being get that way through brainwashing.
I like GI Korea’s point about the big Air-Con Bus they cruised around in. It is as if the WANTED to be taken hostage.
Based upon what Robert posted, it does seem that the Foreign Ministry tried to prevent this.
Perhaps the government will take measures against churches doing this sort of thing in the future but then the state seems very reluctant to curtail the excesses of churches here (fraud, tax evasion, etc.).
I suppose the government pull a reverse and threaten the Taliban with actually sending thousands of soldiers there with a vengeance, which would be the opposite of what they want. I almost wish that would happen since those Taliban are less than cockroaches.
(edit) “. . . could pull a reverse . . .
#9: Wrong enemy. The enemy is music-forbidding, statue-destroying Stone Age nihilists. Don’t forget that.
“Sure, it’s a notification at Incheon International Airport advising passengers to avoid travel to Afghanistan because of intelligence that the Taleban was looking to kidnap Koreans to exchange for captured Taleban.”
Anybody know when the video of them singing “Kumbaya, my Lord” on an Afghanistan subway in is going to be posted on Youtube?
I wish just once the Korean government stand up and say “no” to negotiations with terrorists. Instead, they’re deep knee in negotiations with them. It’s an irresponsible wrong message to give out.
#9: Wrong enemy. The enemy is music-forbidding, statue-destroying Stone Age nihilists. Don’t forget that.
I choose my battles wisely.
I wonder if they regret posing for cutesy pictures in front of a LARGE FUCKING WARNING SIGN advising them not to go to Afghanistan rather than heeding the damn thing.
#16 - My guess is that they probably regret a lot right now.
Evening news reported tonight that other foreign women abducted by the Taliban have fared well and been released. Things don’t look so good for the 7 Korean guys though.
I hope I’m wrong, but I have a bad feeling about this. It’s just sad that those abducted are all young people in the prime of their life. I don’t know how much diplomatic savvy the Taliban has, but just how much can it help your cause to kill 18 young women? It would look bad in the muslim world (or any other world for that matter). It would be beyond barbaric and invite a lot of international condemnation. It would also allow coalition forces to take their gloves off a bit, but who knows.
I don’t know how the executions would affect the Korean mindset, which can be quite volatile in these emotional situations. Would there be anger? Would Korea decide to send more troops, even combat ones? I wouldn’t be suprised if they did.
This document (link removed) suggests that the Korean hostages were in Afghanistan for missionary works and leisure (”MT”), not community service as their families claim.
The “community service” angle is being played up to distance these folks from the the proselytizing activities that will get their heads lopped off.
#19
I’m not convinced they plan to release the hostages at all. 23 prisoners in exchange for the hostages? You and I both know that is unlikely. They might be after money. Did anyone in the South Korean government have the backbone to say that they shouldn’t negotiate with the terrorists? My guess is they’d rather risk inviting kidnappings by paying a ransom.
“The Hankyoreh Shinmun, meanwhile, said the Bush administration possesses “decisive influence” over whether Kabul releases Taliban prisoners, as demanded (read: if Kabul refuses to budge and the hostages get killed, it’s Bush’s fault).”
Yup, when you fill in the blanks you get a straw man argument.
I agree with others on the likelihood of ransom being paid. After funding new weapons for the Taliban, the South Korean government will likely ban all travel to Afghanistan to avoid further kidnappings.
ZZOOzzoo — I was hoping we wouldn’t post stuff like that UNTIL they came home.
This report contradicts the U.S.’s silence over the Korean hostage situation.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/ww....._7038.html
Sorry…I seem to be speaking in konglish these days. I meant to say it contradicts reports saying the U.S. has been silent on the matter.
Korea Times excelled itself today with the headline:
“US Calls for Immediate Release of Korean Kidnappers”
“The Taliban has given the Korean government another 24 hours. The Taliban is also claiming that the Afghan government is blocking direct negotiations between the militia and Korean government negotiators (which, of course, the Hankyoreh Shinmun will blame on Evil Bush ™ — see above)”
Won’t be the last. Wire transfers take up to one week to show up in a bank account.
A brother of one of the hostages was quoted in the Joongang Ilbo:
This may very well be the case if most of them have no language skills.
This is not a matter of Christianity vs. Islam, rather it is purely a criminal undertaking, performed by criminals. It will only help educate the world just who the Taliban really are: criminals and highway robbers.
Five of them spoke Dari and/or Pashto.
Well, it’s a bit more than that now, unfortunately. It’s a major political mess involving at least two governments (Korea and Afghanistan) as well as possibly the United States. And while it would be nice if this served to reinforce the understanding of what the Taliban is, I’ll have to see it first to believe it.
Elgin, follow the link on #20. They were going there for proselytism, period.
“ZZOOzzoo — I was hoping we wouldn’t post stuff like that UNTIL they came home.”
Hey, can somebody clue me in. Is this blog supported by the Korean government in any way? If so, let me know. I am really not interested in supporting lying Korean politicians, business people, University professors or missionaries to conceal the truth from the public through the support of various Korean government agencies.
No, the reason is simple, and it’s the same reason I didn’t link to the one hostage’s Cyworld blog — I don’t want to get anyone killed. That document linked above (since removed) has the individual’s name and phone number clearly written, while the Cyworld page has photos of the hostage’s face and activities.
If you can read it, so can the Taliban.
why is proselytizing so offensive, anyway?
The times are very different from the Middle Ages Europe nor pre World War I European colonialism.
The white man proselytized with the sword in one hand, and the Bible in the other hand.
The Arab proselytized with the sword in one hand, and the Koran in the other hand.
Can you deny it?
The Korean, who is caught up in this doctrine that they are the new messangers of God, go thruout the world to proselytize, with the Bible in one hand, and good works on the other.
So, this is harmful?
They’re really fucking over the infidel locals, I suppose.
This is deserving of death?
Really, this is a crime worthy of capital punishment?
What kind of law did they break? Who did they harm? Most importantly, who did they kill?
The Korean Christians are nuts, but so are you, white man, and you, Arab. So are you.
Well, if you’d prefer not to read this humble blog (which is NOT supported by the government, BTW), that’s your own choice, but last time I checked, you weren’t “supporting” anything, Creo — that is, unless, your check to help me pay the monthly hosting fees is in the mail.
“Well, if you’d prefer not to read this humble blog (which is NOT supported by the government, BTW), that’s your own choice, but last time I checked, you weren’t “supporting” anything, Creo — that is, unless, your check to help me pay the monthly hosting fees is in the mail.”
Why are you getting defensive? I think my question was fair. Usually when people are telling others what to say and what not to say (and what not to post…even if it is the truth) they have some sort of agenda they are seeking support for. I was just curious whose agenda you were asking everyone here to support. I now realize that this blog isn’t supported by the Korean government (apparently you find this insinuation a bit offensive) but is simply operated by someone who for their own personal reasons doesn’t want all the facts (the truth that is) presented. If you are questioning the authenticity of this document, then I apologize. If that is the case, I clearly misunderstood you. I don’t agree these people deserve to die either but I am certainly not willing to lie for them.
Oh…one more thing. If I won’t be agreeing with you in the future does that mean I am required to send you a check to help you pay your monthly hosting fee?
I’m not getting defensive at all. I’m simply pointing out the obvious, namely, that you don’t “support” this blog at all, as you intimated you did in #32 — you consume the fruits of my time, effort and money.
And as for why I don’t want certain sites linked, I made that clear in #33.
But in case I need to restate my reasons again, in the current situation, I’m not going to link to sites releasing personal information on hostages that could be used by people with agendas — namely, the cutting the heads off of infidels kind — to inflict harm on the individuals involved. And for what it’s worth, I’m not hiding anything from the public — anyone with a modicum of Korean skills has seen the stuff about which I talk. I just choose not to make it easier for certain groups to access that information by linking to it in English.
They were a few of us that had this group, their mission, and their level of ignorance/stupidity pegged before any Cyworld pages or damning documents even showed up.
“I’m not getting defensive at all. I’m simply pointing out the obvious, namely, that you don’t “support” this blog at all, as you intimated you did in #32 — you consume the fruits of my time, effort and money.”
Robert,
Before you knock yourself out patting yourself on the back, I might mention most people likely return to this blog for the debate over the issues you post (mostly rehashed from the daily news). If you have any doubt as to that, review the number of comments on the Seoul Water Works post to those on anything grabbed off of common media sources. Though you may facilitate that, this blog would be little else than a repository for your weekend outings without those who you view as mere consumers of the fruits of your “time, effort and money.”
Unfortunate that you are not as humble as you claim your “humble” little blog is.
Right. Suffice it to say that the families’ press conference yesterday was probably not entirely accurate, as far as the claims that this was NOT a religious mission were concerned.
What I don’t want to do, however, is help the Taliban choose their victims should they decide — Heaven forbid it should come to pass — to start killing hostages.
Fine, Creo, I suggest then you punish my arrogance by taking your readership and commentary elsewhere.
not that the taliban is checking marmot’s hole or anything but if telling the truth might contribute to the killings of the hostages, would that make you satsified as long as the truth was told? there’s plenty of information out there for people to make their own conclusions about whether they went as missionaries or aid workers, but shit, if a family member of mine was so stupid enough to go afghanistan on a missionary trip and got kidnapped, i would of course lie and say said family member was only there to help the people. why can’t people see robert’s point?
seoulmilk — It’s not Creo’s point that I take offense to, it’s the attitude in comment #32. Occasionally, a few commenters need to be reminded that a blog is a personal website, which in turn is like a personal home — guests are welcome, and while discussion with other guests is encouraged, if you piss on the host’s rug, you’ll be shown the door.
Seoulmilk: “if telling the truth might contribute to the killings of the hostages, would that make you satsified as long as the truth was told?”
I don’t get it. Have we entered the Twilight Zone here or what? I fully 100% understand Creo’s point.
The only way I could sympathize with hiding documents exposing the truth is that it might put Robert at legal risk here.
a-lethia, creo, are like gerry bevers.
They have too much expat-han.
Oh, those lying Koreans.
Must expose every single Korean lie.
Hey, I found a Korean lying !
Hope you have a nice release.
Wait a tick — it’s not OK to refuse to link a document that could potentially get someone shot, but it’s OK not to link it if I might get sued?
yeah, didn’t you know Taliban doesn’t search naver.com, or read it?
But, they can make demands in English?
Oh, Duh !
“It’s not Creo’s point that I take offense to, it’s the attitude in comment #32. Occasionally, a few commenters need to be reminded that a blog is a personal website, which in turn is like a personal home — guests are welcome, and while discussion with other guests is encouraged, if you piss on the host’s rug, you’ll be shown the door.”
Robert,
Why don’t you clarify “piss on the host’s rug” for all of your subservient minions? Sounds to me like it is ok to have an opinion as long as it agrees with yours. Been in the ROK a bit too long have ya?
You don’t have to show me the door. Not interested in assisting you with your little mission of converting yourself into a little, white Ajashi who everyone pretends to agree with so you don’t go into a Soju induced rage.
So at what point did we all decide to hide the missionaries motives in order to save their lives? A day ago no one questioned it. I think lots of people must have got spooked about 11 PM last night.
Creo’s point, as I understand it (and I agree he was not polite about it), is that actually thinking that bloggers and commentators actually get people killed or save them is a bit far fetched.
Well, maybe it’s not so much that the Taliban reads blogs but more so the fact that the media does, and often reporters use blogs are their sources in their stories. (And someone from the Taliban as well as those from other hostage-taking outfits certianly must be reading media reports.)
Anyway, resourceful journalists will find such documents online or offline whether it’s on this blog or not. And it’s up to them whether or not to mention such information in their reports.
Nobody is talking about hiding the motives. I just don’t want to link to stuff like ZZOOzzoo did in his comment — stuff with names, phone numbers and faces.
That’s not the point. I’m just trying to be responsible by NOT linking to, say, a photo of a hostage — face clearly visible — engaging in activities in Afghanistan that were probably ill-advised at a time when said hostage is still a hostage. Yeah, I could probably post it and nobody would notice, but why take the chance?
Have a good one.
OK, fine, lets all pretend we are not being lied to.
Marmot: “I just don’t want to link to stuff like ZZOOzzoo did in his comment — stuff with names, phone numbers and faces.”
That is fair enough. I got it.
Robert,
Stopped back in to check out the final “word” from you the almighty. It is obvious you get a real ego stroke out of your omnipotence so wanted to give you a final stroke. I did enjoy some of your articles, so think of it as my way of thanking you. I
In reality you kinda turned out to be what I suspected you were when I came across this site a few months ago. Feel free to delete my posts in this thread. You found your game and I don’t want to disturb (or reveal) it anymore than I have.
Maybe in the future you may consider posting some reference to your agenda and your rules somewhere on your site. That would help those of us interested in the truth and freedom expression from engaging you in the first place.
Kiss..
Thanks.
Good riddance, Creo.
Maybe now you can devote more time to helping blueballs find a job. He needs all the help he can get!
YoungRocco2 — Tossing out Creo was not a signal for you to start a fight with another commenter.
Thanks you for your cooperation.
#34 - WJK:
“The Korean Christians are nuts, but so are you, white man, and you, Arab. So are you.”
As far as the “white men” (a group to which I myself do NOT belong) are concerned, it should rather be “So WERE you.”
I agree with your other statements.
The Marmot seems like a decent fella to me.
“What I don’t want to do, however, is help the Taliban choose their victims should they decide — Heaven forbid it should come to pass — to start killing hostages.”
This is particularly true with a view to the fact that one of the two German hostages has already been murdered…
You’d better say that, lest I go into a soju-induced rage!
“The Marmot seems like a decent fella to me.”
I suppose there is no one here who, in their sound mind, would doubt this.
Robert: “Tossing out Creo was not a signal for you to start a fight with another commenter.”
Did you actually ban him?
Seems like he was just having a bad day. He’d probably regret his tone tomorrow.
“This is particularly true with a view to the fact that one of the two German hostages has already been murdered…”
Apparently, he hasn’t been killed. The Taliban spokesman now claimed he misunderstood the kidnappers because communications were suddenly cut off.
Someguy, thanks for the info…
The more I read creo, the more offensive he’s become. A little bit more respect for human lives, is that too much to ask? Eventhough what they did was stupid, they dont deserve to be executed in this fashion. What truth does he think that the Koreans are covering up here? This is laughable. Go to any gossip sites like Naver or elsewhere if he wants the “truth”. They have all the details right down to name, pictures, phone numbers, and the purpose of the trip.
Creo, good riddance.
One of the two German hostages was indeed murdered. Yesterday evening, it was reported that his body was found with a couple of bullet holes.
A German gov-guy I just chatted with at a party tonight said that there are signs that the deceased German did have a heart-attack as the Afghanis said — and he also has bullets in him. The corpse is being flown to G for autopsy to determine if he was shot before or after the heart-attack — implying that he might have died, then the Taliban wanted to make it look like they executed him — “take credit” for it, the sick bastards, to increase their credibility and strengthen their negotiating position.
Man, that Creo sure does have psycho-problems. Good riddance to him from this forum…
I find myself on the hardliner side of the Korean hostage situation — there should be no releases, no payoffs. The missionaries deserve no sympathy in this case — but their families deserve some, to the extent that they were unable to stop the fanatics from going off seeking ‘holy martyrdom’.
Wow, if Robert is running this blog like we all have to toe the party line, that’s news to me. I’ve never seen a more diverse, disparate, and argumentative bunch of people in my life than on this blog! (And I say that with love
)
Guy who’s brave enough to call *me* a friend, you can say that
I just read Metropolitician Hurt’s post on this, and fully agree with him…
#69
So, are you telling me that we can’t trust the Taliban spokesman?
But, but, but…It couldn’t be. The Koran forbids lying (2:283), making false testimony (24:7), and orders Muslims to speak the truth even if it is against themselves or their own families (4:135).
#52
Exactly. I wouldn’t want to help the terrorists or the cyberstalkers either.
My job is making you look like a clueless douchebag. Fortunately, that job involves no effort, because you do my job for me.
I would say that most people who don’t have a view on a higher power, higher calling, or even an eternal perspective on life don’t really get that these missionaries are going to a death zone just to talk about the bible. But missionaries do know the cost that they are facing when they head into a country like afghanistan because they believe that this life that we are living doesn’t end because there is an afterlife, eternal life, nirvana, or heaven. whatever you want to call it. they live for a greater purpose(i.e. God, heaven, etc.) than what most of us live for,which is OURSELVES.
If at the end of it all the hostages are killed and some politicians time spent I would still sympthize with them. They may be stupid for going their in the first place but I don’t believe for a second they deserve capital punishment for it.
On a side note, I think Baduk stands as the only person exiled from the “hole” that was granted re-entry.
Just goes to show that if you’re a dick and you abuse The Hole, you’re not likely to be allowed a second shot.
70 People who arrogantly court danger should not expect to be bailed out. Much like the idiots who climb mountains and end up lost or in need of helicopter rescue, they should be bonded before they go. Another example of my theory that Koreans have a cultural denial of danger!
Why don’t we get this comment section up out of the gutter and back on the curb where it belongs?
I say the Korean government should offer the Taliban Dokdo. It’s a perfect trade! Useless land for useless people.
#77
Notice how the ‘missionaries’ are all young? How do you explain that?
#77.
Besides, Christians get altruism while others don’t? Come on. Now you’re insulting our intelligence.
Do good,altruistic,helpful people with no religious affiliation go to heaven,or do they still have to pay the cover charge?
‘with your little mission of converting yourself into a little, white Ajashi who everyone pretends to agree with so you don’t go into a Soju induced rage.’ creo
you must be rather new to this blog. i’ve been at this place for almost two and half years. for most of that time, i have been rather strident. i’ve almost never agreed with robert and his positions. i’ve even called him names. and yet, i’m still here.
granted, i’m not his favorite person but i thank him for being big enough to allow folks who strenously disagree with him a place on his blog.
‘expat-han’ wjk
good one, wjk! if you pronounce the a in ‘han’ like the a in the word ‘hand’, it has a rather nice ring to it.
“Do good,altruistic,helpful people with no religious affiliation go to heaven,or do they still have to pay the cover charge?”
If not, please count me out; I’d rather end up with good people - regardless of whatever deity they may or may not happen to pray to - than find myself stuck with a few of the people I know who claim to already have the platinum pass to the great after-party in the sky.
An excellent point Wookinponub. A great number of Christians differ on that to a large degree. (Heck, even the Catholic Church - to which most of family belongs - recently clarified that unbaptized babies were “saved” from limbo/damnation, did they not?!) It would appear that the bible is rather open to interpretation…
Blueballs:
Stop rationalizing. I know the government doesn’t count people who’ve stopped looking for work in its unemployment figures, but your giving up the job search doesn’t make you any less a bum*.
*non-pejoratively speaking.
Oh, and I just wanted to direct your attention to an article relating to that iphone conversation we had sometime ago:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....IPHONE.TMP
Wow, your numbers were way off, kid. Looks like the iphone hype has started to die. The lackluster sales numbers are just the tip of the iceberg too. Apparently, the iphone has already been hacked.
Meanwhile, Samsung has clinched the number two position in worldwide cellphone sales.
Looks like, as usual, my argument was on the money.
Wookinponub(Post 85): Nope. Belief in God is a prerequisite for Heaven.
Like the thermos, how do you know?
one thing is quite clear. Nobody wants to go to church with Rocco.
Wookinponub:
Here we go again. Another guy who wants to debate the tenets of the bible without ever having read it.
(Sigh)
I’ll indulge your question anyways.
1. ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one can
come to the father but through me.’” John 14:6
2. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM shall not
perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the
Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world
might be SAVED THROUGH HIM. He who BELIEVES IN HIM is not
judged; he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.”
John 3:16-18
I’ll leave it at that.
wjk: Cute.
#90
You can read the bible all you want, you still won’t understand it.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”
2 Peter 1:20
@#89:
wjk, you actually made me laugh intentionally. Maybe you changed your comment style from long, multiple posts to one-liners,fewer people could scroll down past your comments without reading them.
“Looks like, as usual, my argument was on the money.”
Young Rocco is a delusional charlatan, living solely on self-applause.
The biggest difference between Young Rocco and the purported Nigerian central bank officials who flood my inbox is that the Nigerian spammers refrain from arrogant and gratuitous insults.
Okay, now that I’ve had breakfast and am more alert, let me try again:
@#89:
wjk, you actually made me laugh intentionally. Maybe if you changed your comment style from long, multiple posts to one-liners,fewer people would scroll down past your comments without reading them.
“The biggest difference between Young Rocco and the purported Nigerian central bank officials who flood my inbox is that the Nigerian spammers refrain from arrogant and gratuitous insults.”
You’re right. Trying to anonymously belittle/insult people doesn’t exactly constitute the most effective of sales pitches. But the “cyber-wanking” that’s been conducted by the person in question here really isn’t about winning over other people to his ideas, is it? (What ideas? You’ll only ever find criticism of what others have to say.) It’s about trying - unsuccessfully, for the most part I hope - to make people feel as if their opinions aren’t worth shit. Ignore the troll and let him get his thrills somewhere else.
SomeGuyinKorea: You’ve misinterpreted the scripture in two ways. First, the quote you’ve cited refers to prophecy. Not every part of the bible is a prophecy. Furthermore, the quote says PRIVATE interpretation. This means that one can very well understand prophecy as long as one consults with the right experts[God, for example]
Slim: It’s 2007. At this stage of email development, there is no excuse for you not to have installed a spam filter to your email account. So if you still receive a “flood” of spam…my guess would be that you are purposely leaving a spam filter uninstalled…
Maybe you are hoping against hope that at least one of those stamina boosters, love letters from strangers, or wills from Russian oil barons is the real thing.
Globalvillageidiot: Why do you constantly talk about masturbation? Please keep your fantasies to yourself.
It’s not that I don’t have ideas, its just that you don’t understand them. I’ve been very clear in my position that the Korean hostages deserve respect and a safe return. I regret that the concept of respect for those who act on their beliefs instead of talking about them is so foreign to you.
People’s feelings? Let’s cut the politically correct crap. I hope that the commenters here aren’t so thin skinned.
If you feel that passionate about it, why don’t you try refuting my points.
No Rocco, nobody will refute your points. How could we? And how could we? You think our tiny voices can be heard over the din of your consultations with God?
SomeGuyinKorea (#91): It may have done well to to consider that quote from 2 Peter in context. Using the King James Version (the version you cited):