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	<title>Comments on: Non-Canadian English Teacher Resigns for Forged Degrees</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ●~*</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97844</link>
		<dc:creator>●~*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 08:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97844</guid>
		<description>To sewing

The cheaters are not from the working class.
They are from the have families in their region.
Don't make little of the local powers.
The local powers have enough money and solid connections  with other local or central powers. Let's think of Kim Dae-Jung and Kim Young -Sam.



And  the children of the power are instilled with pride and arrogance, for  they have strong background. Their mother will do anything. In the case of money deficit, their mom will sell their body to supply  the exorbitant extracurricular expenses of their children. Korean moms' skirt-wind is notorious.
(I wonder if  there's any mom who has extramarital relations to the teachers to have their children get  a good schoolwork grade. If so, it's an example of two birds with one stone.) 
As a natural result, the children of the power have top record at school and easily instated to the president of the students at an elemetary school or even onto the high school.
In this way, the children of the local power become indulged in   DELUSION OF GRANDEUR. 
They have achieved something, but  with no sweat and with no stronghold. 
At  the time of wider world, inner conflict begins. They sense that they are nothing in a wider world. And cheating begins to show off  to the hometown plain people.

Do not pull out 학벌.  The cheaters actively made use of the name of self-asserted universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To sewing</p>
<p>The cheaters are not from the working class.<br />
They are from the have families in their region.<br />
Don&#8217;t make little of the local powers.<br />
The local powers have enough money and solid connections  with other local or central powers. Let&#8217;s think of Kim Dae-Jung and Kim Young -Sam.</p>
<p>And  the children of the power are instilled with pride and arrogance, for  they have strong background. Their mother will do anything. In the case of money deficit, their mom will sell their body to supply  the exorbitant extracurricular expenses of their children. Korean moms&#8217; skirt-wind is notorious.<br />
(I wonder if  there&#8217;s any mom who has extramarital relations to the teachers to have their children get  a good schoolwork grade. If so, it&#8217;s an example of two birds with one stone.)<br />
As a natural result, the children of the power have top record at school and easily instated to the president of the students at an elemetary school or even onto the high school.<br />
In this way, the children of the local power become indulged in   DELUSION OF GRANDEUR.<br />
They have achieved something, but  with no sweat and with no stronghold.<br />
At  the time of wider world, inner conflict begins. They sense that they are nothing in a wider world. And cheating begins to show off  to the hometown plain people.</p>
<p>Do not pull out 학벌.  The cheaters actively made use of the name of self-asserted universities.</p>
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		<title>By: kwon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97633</link>
		<dc:creator>kwon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97633</guid>
		<description>The problem for foreigners in Korea is the selective application of the law.  Westerners are taught to expect it, but Korea is not a country that applies its laws equally to koreans and non koreans.  If Korea wants to be a hub or be respected by non koreans then fair treatment of foreigners and foreign companies will be needed.  Foreign companies and individuals do not always want special treatment, but fair and equal.  Thats the outrage by westerners about the issue of fake degrees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem for foreigners in Korea is the selective application of the law.  Westerners are taught to expect it, but Korea is not a country that applies its laws equally to koreans and non koreans.  If Korea wants to be a hub or be respected by non koreans then fair treatment of foreigners and foreign companies will be needed.  Foreign companies and individuals do not always want special treatment, but fair and equal.  Thats the outrage by westerners about the issue of fake degrees.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97602</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 05:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97602</guid>
		<description>"Because “chiropractic” is a state recognized and licensed profession just like medicine (in the US anyway, don’t know about the ROK). "

So is being a plumber, a teacher, or a nurse, but I don't see many of them calling themselves doctors.

It may be a licensed profession, but the Doctor of Chiropractic title is just to further take advantage of the fact that people will believe anything a guy in a white lab coat will tell them.  Do you believe that your health depends on how your spine's alignment?  I know people with a hunchback who lead perfectly healthy lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Because “chiropractic” is a state recognized and licensed profession just like medicine (in the US anyway, don’t know about the ROK). &#8221;</p>
<p>So is being a plumber, a teacher, or a nurse, but I don&#8217;t see many of them calling themselves doctors.</p>
<p>It may be a licensed profession, but the Doctor of Chiropractic title is just to further take advantage of the fact that people will believe anything a guy in a white lab coat will tell them.  Do you believe that your health depends on how your spine&#8217;s alignment?  I know people with a hunchback who lead perfectly healthy lives.</p>
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		<title>By: mateomiguel</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97507</link>
		<dc:creator>mateomiguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97507</guid>
		<description>and since we're all asking, Brendon, what's the legal backing for airline 'food'?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and since we&#8217;re all asking, Brendon, what&#8217;s the legal backing for airline &#8216;food&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97425</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97425</guid>
		<description>"...why can chiropractors get away with giving themselves the title of ‘Doctor’?"

Because "chiropractic" is a state recognized and licensed profession just like medicine (in the US anyway, don't know about the ROK). 

"...All States and the District of Columbia regulate the practice of chiropractic and grant licenses to chiropractors who meet the educational and examination requirements established by the State. Chiropractors can practice only in States where they are licensed....
Most State boards require at least 2 years of undergraduate education; an increasing number are requiring a 4-year bachelor’s degree. All boards require the completion of a 4-year program at an accredited chiropractic college leading to the Doctor of Chiropractic degree.

For licensure, most State boards recognize either all or part of the four-part test administered by the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners....

In 2005, 15 chiropractic programs and 2 chiropractic institutions in the United States were accredited by the Council on Chiropractic Education..."

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos071.htm#training</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;why can chiropractors get away with giving themselves the title of ‘Doctor’?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because &#8220;chiropractic&#8221; is a state recognized and licensed profession just like medicine (in the US anyway, don&#8217;t know about the ROK). </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;All States and the District of Columbia regulate the practice of chiropractic and grant licenses to chiropractors who meet the educational and examination requirements established by the State. Chiropractors can practice only in States where they are licensed&#8230;.<br />
Most State boards require at least 2 years of undergraduate education; an increasing number are requiring a 4-year bachelor’s degree. All boards require the completion of a 4-year program at an accredited chiropractic college leading to the Doctor of Chiropractic degree.</p>
<p>For licensure, most State boards recognize either all or part of the four-part test administered by the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners&#8230;.</p>
<p>In 2005, 15 chiropractic programs and 2 chiropractic institutions in the United States were accredited by the Council on Chiropractic Education&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos071.htm#training" rel="nofollow">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos071.htm#training</a></p>
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		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97417</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97417</guid>
		<description>Brendon, why can chiropractors get away with giving themselves the title of 'Doctor'?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendon, why can chiropractors get away with giving themselves the title of &#8216;Doctor&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97380</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97380</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m probably better at diagnosing certain physical illnesses than a medical doctor (for real). Should I make a career out of practicing medicine then and lie that I got a medical degree to get credibility? Gee, what should happen to my job at a hospital if it was found out I LIED about getting a medical degree?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The example of the medical doctor is a poor one. There is a law called the Medical Services Act concerning the practice of medicine which defines the qualifications for being a doctor. Among them is graduation from an approved medical school. But unless there is a Korean law requiring that someone who "teaches" English on TV has a teaching credential or a foreign graduate degree (I haven't checked and there are a ton of special laws here), this would not be analogous to the case of Ms. Lee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m probably better at diagnosing certain physical illnesses than a medical doctor (for real). Should I make a career out of practicing medicine then and lie that I got a medical degree to get credibility? Gee, what should happen to my job at a hospital if it was found out I LIED about getting a medical degree?</p></blockquote>
<p>The example of the medical doctor is a poor one. There is a law called the Medical Services Act concerning the practice of medicine which defines the qualifications for being a doctor. Among them is graduation from an approved medical school. But unless there is a Korean law requiring that someone who &#8220;teaches&#8221; English on TV has a teaching credential or a foreign graduate degree (I haven&#8217;t checked and there are a ton of special laws here), this would not be analogous to the case of Ms. Lee.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97379</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97379</guid>
		<description>Don't worry. There &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be more in the next days and weeks. I guarantee it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry. There <i>will</i> be more in the next days and weeks. I guarantee it.</p>
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		<title>By: babarian</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97378</link>
		<dc:creator>babarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97378</guid>
		<description>Oops, other woman, not other women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, other woman, not other women.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/non-canadian-english-teacher-resigns-for-forged-degrees/#comment-97377</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/19/good-morning-pops-lee-quits-amidst-forged-degree-allegations/#comment-97377</guid>
		<description>A reporter from the Korea Herald contacted me today. Here's what I sent him by e-mail in response to questions about diploma forgery:

Creation of fake diplomas is the crime of "Forgery or Alteration of a Private Document" (Art. 231 of the Korean Criminal Code). The punishment is a jail term of up to five years or a fine of up to 10 million won.

It doesn't matter if the degree is an international degree or a domestic one.

However, the foreigner who submits that fake diploma to the Ministry of Justice to obtain an immigration visa, or the employer who does so, also violates the Immigration Control Act's criminal provisions. That's what's different between the Korean and foreign degree-faker.

Lately, there has been a trend for police and prosecutors to claim that the employee defrauded the employer of wages for the period of employment -- because if not for the fake diploma the employee would not have been hired. Fraud (Art. 347) carries a potential sentence up to 10 years in jail or a fine of up to 20 million won.

We don't have hard data on sentences, but my partner who was a judge says that sentences for forgery are generally pretty light -- usually a fine of W1,000,000-3,000,000. We similarly don't know about whether the fraud prosecution angle is a winner or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A reporter from the Korea Herald contacted me today. Here&#8217;s what I sent him by e-mail in response to questions about diploma forgery:</p>
<p>Creation of fake diplomas is the crime of &#8220;Forgery or Alteration of a Private Document&#8221; (Art. 231 of the Korean Criminal Code). The punishment is a jail term of up to five years or a fine of up to 10 million won.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter if the degree is an international degree or a domestic one.</p>
<p>However, the foreigner who submits that fake diploma to the Ministry of Justice to obtain an immigration visa, or the employer who does so, also violates the Immigration Control Act&#8217;s criminal provisions. That&#8217;s what&#8217;s different between the Korean and foreign degree-faker.</p>
<p>Lately, there has been a trend for police and prosecutors to claim that the employee defrauded the employer of wages for the period of employment &#8212; because if not for the fake diploma the employee would not have been hired. Fraud (Art. 347) carries a potential sentence up to 10 years in jail or a fine of up to 20 million won.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have hard data on sentences, but my partner who was a judge says that sentences for forgery are generally pretty light &#8212; usually a fine of W1,000,000-3,000,000. We similarly don&#8217;t know about whether the fraud prosecution angle is a winner or not.</p>
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