“No one is asking you to buy anything I’m saying. It’s a fact - the internal workings of the military especially its relationship with the ROK exists at levels and depths that aren’t privy to public eye, and processes and decisions are made that will never be reported in the Korea Times. I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you any of that. You don’t seem to be nieve enough to think that everything is an open process here. Its up to you whether you “buy it” or not, but the fact is you fundamentally cannot understand all of the dynamics of each situation because you don’t have access and likely never will (that’s not meant to be offensive).”

Agreed.

“Absolutely. You have all sorts of rights. Good on you. I’m not sure you have the whole bunch here in Korea that you might have back in the States, but as far as your ability to write what you want on this blog, you are well within your God given rights as an American. And go ahead and be concerned about rights violations. I just hope that people have these concerns while considering the present conditions of individuals serving in Korea.”

Agreed.

“I think that the bottom line is that the zero tolerance policy towards military members here in USFK is an untenable expetation. These individuals will inevitably slip up every once in a while, they will get hammered and made an example out of, the leadership will work their ass of trying to prevent another incident, but then it will happen somewhere down the line. If you don’t think that people live in a restrictive environment here in USFK, then you have not seen the environment that individuals live in north of Seoul. If it makes you unhappy that events like these continue, then join the club. It pisses off USFK more than anybody, I’m sure. I think to some degree Koreans have adjusted and gotten used to their occurance and accepted the fact that USFK is doing its best and does not rejoice when events like these transpire. If you continue to hold your position that all USFK members should be angels wearing a combat uniform, then you are well within your rights (as we have discussed) to do so. I just don’t think you will get many sympathetic ears to seriously consider your arguments.”

Agreed…except for …

“I just don’t think you will get many sympathetic ears to seriously consider your arguments.”

I assume you are referring to USFK personnel? Otherwise, I think it is safe to say you are out of touch with the concerns of the ex-pat community in Korea. Having absolutely no connection to the event we are non the less the ones who get to ride to work on the bus and subway every day with Koreans trying to stare a whole in the back of our head after each of these occurrences.

I am guessing that at the same time you are tucked away nicely on lock down for a month or so on your base…trust me …you are not as “pissed off” as the average ex-pat after one of these events.

“Sounds like the Koreans trying to justify everything they do with, “you couldn’t possibly understand us because you do not know our culture.”

Sorry, don’t buy it when they use it and don’t buy it from you either.”

No one is asking you to buy anything I’m saying. It’s a fact - the internal workings of the military especially its relationship with the ROK exists at levels and depths that aren’t privy to public eye, and processes and decisions are made that will never be reported in the Korea Times. I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you any of that. You don’t seem to be nieve enough to think that everything is an open process here. Its up to you whether you “buy it” or not, but the fact is you fundamentally cannot understand all of the dynamics of each situation because you don’t have access and likely never will (that’s not meant to be offensive).

“As an American citizen I have a right to be concerned…”

Absolutely. You have all sorts of rights. Good on you. I’m not sure you have the whole bunch here in Korea that you might have back in the States, but as far as your ability to write what you want on this blog, you are well within your God given rights as an American. And go ahead and be concerned about rights violations. I just hope that people have these concerns while considering the present conditions of individuals serving in Korea.

I think that the bottom line is that the zero tolerance policy towards military members here in USFK is an untenable expetation. These individuals will inevitably slip up every once in a while, they will get hammered and made an example out of, the leadership will work their ass of trying to prevent another incident, but then it will happen somewhere down the line. If you don’t think that people live in a restrictive environment here in USFK, then you have not seen the environment that individuals live in north of Seoul. If it makes you unhappy that events like these continue, then join the club. It pisses off USFK more than anybody, I’m sure. I think to some degree Koreans have adjusted and gotten used to their occurance and accepted the fact that USFK is doing its best and does not rejoice when events like these transpire. If you continue to hold your position that all USFK members should be angels wearing a combat uniform, then you are well within your rights (as we have discussed) to do so. I just don’t think you will get many sympathetic ears to seriously consider your arguments.

On a practical level, stupid expats DO represent you and your country, just as much as the GI with the US flag on his shoulder

Oh really?

I seem to recall that Clinton had to fly to Japan just to apologize for a group of Marines that had raped some pre-teen Okinawan girls.

Is it common for a sitting president to do that when Joe Civilian screws up? I don’t think so.

And why does a piece of shit like Lynndie England have a major effect on foreign policy while your average WT female acting up in Itaewon does not?

It’s not just the USFK personnel but the whole expat community in Korea that commit crimes at a lower rate than Korean citizens here. The reasons are obvious: foreigners who legally come to work or live in Korea must go through a screening process that aims keep most of the riffraff out.

So why is it for all their effort the USFK seems to be able to top the ex-pat community with a few simple “screw ups.”

How does a caged animal act once the door to that cage is opened?

It is your blog and your opinion is always welcome.

However…

“On a practical level, stupid expats DO represent you and your country, just as much as the GI with the US flag on his shoulder.”

I simply don’t agree and I sense that most Korean men having “served” their county would share a similar belief that a soldier wearing a flag on his shoulder is held to a higher standard of accountability than a citizen.

“I also think USFK, generally speaking, is a better behaved bunch than the English teacher crowd. At least with USFK, they’re part of a society that values discipline, responsibility and standards. English teachers, meanwhile, are free of the social restrictions of their own societies, and often feel that the social restrictions of their host society do not apply to them.”

I also agree with you here. The disappointing fact though is the fact that the most horrendous acts seem to come from the USFK. Long after the intentional offenses of “English Spectrum” have been forgotten Koreans will be reminiscing about the USFK accident that took the lives of two young Koreans.

The ex-pat crowd here is certainly not disciplined and receives little if any guidance from anyone. We don’t undergo hours of “sensitivity training” and in fact most young ex-pats receive poor instruction on behavior by viewing the behavior of Korean men. So why is it for all their effort the USFK seems to be able to top the ex-pat community with a few simple “screw ups.”

USFK personnel are to be commended for the fact they commit crimes at a far lower rate than their host population (Koreans).

Here is where you start to lose me though, “USFK personnel represent America (read: you) and therefore no level of misconduct, however small, can be deemed acceptable.”

What bothers me is the attitude of “boys will be boys” and “screw ups” and the suggestion that there should be an acceptable level of tolerance. Let me clarify. This is a country where an “accident” involving USFK personnel (Paju 2002) which results in the death of two Korean children can impact relations for years. This began with an accident. Now you can try to make my argument trivial by saying I am knit picking about bar fights but we both know that is not what I am discussing.

Is it necessary to “waste the troops’ time on even more sensitivity training and to violate their rights under the U.S. Constitution and Uniform Code of Military Justice” and continue this until everyone accepts that there will be zero tolerance for acts of rape against Korean grandmothers and off duty female Korean police officers in the toilet…abso fuckin lutely! And, as I said before, those not mature enough to understand the importance of this would be wise to head back to the comforts of the USA. Exotic lands will always be available to explore once they have matured enough to do so responsibly.

I have never seen an article about an American ex-pat raping a citizen of Korea that didn’t involve a US service member. If you have, please share it with me. Are there American ex-pats in Korea that do stupid things? Yes, I have seen plenty. If they violate the law put them on a plane back home. I don’t excuse their behavior anymore than a soldier’s and they do not represent me or my country.

Yeah, but here’s the thing — on a practical level, stupid expats DO represent you and your country, just as much as the GI with the US flag on his shoulder. When netizen flame wars start over asinine English teachers, for example, rarely is it pointed out that English teachers are not employees of their home governments.

And if I might express my opinion — it is my blog, after all — I might say that I think there are discipline problems with USFK; whatever they are doing about the taxi situation clearly isn’t working, and I don’t believe the boorish behavior of the GIs who videotaped their antics in a Seoul subway — or the asshats who were photographing their dicks on a Gwangju subway — are entirely isolated and may represent problematic attitudes held by some — not all, but some — USFK members. That being said, I also think USFK, generally speaking, is a better behaved bunch than the English teacher crowd. At least with USFK, they’re part of a society that values discipline, responsibility and standards. English teachers, meanwhile, are free of the social restrictions of their own societies, and often feel that the social restrictions of their host society do not apply to them.