Two GIs with 2ID, including a 19-year-old private, were arrested (and turned over to US MPs) in Uijeongbu (where else!) after one of them punched a 24-year-old pedestrian in the face for staring at him. They also pushed the victim’s girlfriend to the ground.
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46 Comments
good lord
Are you looking at me?
Well, sometimes people stare at me as if they were trying to burn a hole through my head with laser beams shooting from their eyes…but going out and punching someone for it? I prefer to stare back instead. It’s cheaper.
I always try to provide a little legal perspective to these kinds of things. Attention American soldiers, English teachers, and businesspersons: “He was looking at me” is not recognized as a reason to use violence under Korean law. You’re welcome.
Is there something wrong with the water up in Warrior Country?
I’ve found the “point and laugh” method is effective for countering mouth-breathing starers.
Nineteen year old US soldiers in Uijeongbu? They were likely all decked out in hip hop clothes and bling and the poor guy was probably just studying their fashion sense. I still find it both embarrassing and flattering that Koreans are interested in me. How sad that someone’s response to another’s curiosity would be to punch them in the face. Pathetic behavior.
I take Korean newspaper reports re foreigners with a pinch of salt. I’ve seen first hand how the real story can change from the street to the paper. It goes something like this:
1. Incident.
2. Korean witnesses/”victims” bullshit to police. Foreigner and foreign witnesses not asked for statements (or, in the case I am aware of, asked for statements after step 4 takes place.)
3. Police add extra bullshit to Incident Report. Incident Report given to media.
4. Incident Report further misreported by media.
Kind of like Chinese whispers, except those whispering are trying to fuck-up.
Could be that these people were harrassed, reacted, were harrassed/attacked even more, reacted in kind, were arrested.
A good friend of mine, after sticking up for his girlfriend who was getting some heavy harrasment in the street, was knocked out and kicked in the head until he had a brain haemorage. His friends tried to help him and were also attacked, 1 hospitalized. 3 days later the local newspaper glibly reported that there were 5 (!) foreigners involved (failed to note that three of them were girls who did nothing but scream for help), 3 Koreans (the number was at least 10), wrote that my friend started it, and added that he and his companions in crime also lashed out at “innocent” Koreans who were trying to stop the “fight”. I protested in writing to the local paper (my friend had woken from his coma by then) who sent my their police report. Thus I was able to break down the process into the steps above.
I trust the vast majority of Koreans, but the hell would I trust a Korean newspaper report on foreigners involved in a dispute with Koreans.
hoju_saram,
I understand your point. And that is why every foreigner in Korea needs to be educated (the US military should be doing a better job) that any altercation with a Korean is a lost battle. Grab the girlfriend, the pride and walk on.
Bingo! And the prize goes to Hoju Saram….
Lol… the US military should be doing a better job? Think every incident will be stopped? Military members in Korea are already trained to to the point of excessiveness. Maybe its the pundits and reporters that should be more educated to realize its a failure of an individual (it that is in fact what happened here… innocent until proven guilty) rather than the big, bad USFK machine that has failed to micro manage the actions of every single person when they go off base. These type of articles are tired and played out in the press and on blogs like these.
“Lol… the US military should be doing a better job? Think every incident will be stopped?”
I guess we could all pretend it is a media conspiracy. We all know the Korean media. The only problem with that is the fact that some of it is appearing on You Tube compliments of the offenders.
Sorry, after living here for 4 years I have seen enough first hand to make me wonder if the US military (my government’s military) is getting the message across clear enough. For the military personnel, that really isn’t a problem. They screw up and they get to go home or to another country. The rest of us get the privilege of living with the results of one of their nights out on the town.
If the guys in this case are really victims, and they were attacked, I apologize to them. Otherwise, they should have kept on walking. If they can’t do that, they aren’t mature enough to be either soldiers or in a place like Korea.
#8.
This was quite a few years ago, so I don’t know if this sort of thing still goes one… My friend came out of a trendy restaurant in Seoul with one of his friends. A few drunken middle-aged guys were hanging by the door, insulting him in Korean. His friend, a Korean, asked them to cut it out. As a reply, one of the drunks attacked him. My friend called the cops on his cell phone and then tried to prevent the others from jumping in while his friend was on the ground wrestling with his attacker. The cops finally showed up. Guess who they arrested without asking them how things strated?
Thanks for the support of my point. We all know that these things do happen in Korea. The US military is especially aware of this. Thus, this is exactly the reason why military personnel are “trained to the point of excessiveness,” and rightfully so. This ain’t Texas.
i would also like to add that neither is:
“He hit my friend”
“He hit my girlfriend”
“He threw a beer bottle at me”
“He pushed me”
“He took a swing at me”
“He came at me with a knife”
“He jumped me with his buddies”
a few key points:
1) if you are in an altercation with a Korean, you will get arrested.
2) you can usually avoid jail and fines if you are way more fracked up than the Korean
3) if the Korean involved is more messed up, you will get the short end of the stick and if you are an E2 holder that will likely include deportation
4) if you have been really, really visibly tooled and the Korean is unmarked (the police don’t really count scratches and bite marks), then he will get a big WTF? lecture from the cops
5) you will never ever be compensated for any injuries as suing the jerk will probably mean losing your job (mostly for the E2s) and most Korean strangers you meet will be completely apathetic to your plight and some will even seem disappointed that you weren’t hurt more
6) the best thing to do is walk away regardless of the situation, your feelings, level of insult, etc.
[these valuable life lessons come from 1st hand experience, watching friends suffer, and reading about other expats in similar predicaments]
I think we really need to investigate the water supply up there.
In response to Creo,
GIs behave way better in Korea than in Texas. You ought to see the crazy crap that goes on at Ft. Hood or Ft. Bliss for that matter. Unless everyone is locked down on post it is unrealistic to think that every incident can be stopped.
All the implications of incidents here are understood on my part, believe me. The point is you have to have a little bit of the ‘boys will be boys’ attitude when looking at some of these incidents. I’m not saying you don’t try… you do try… which is what I alluded to with the excessive training comment. But when an individual screws it up, and its usually the younger males away from home the first time etc etc, then you make an example out of them and hope others get the message. Its neither practical nor acceptable policy wise to restrict everyone to the confines of a base or assign someone to watch their behavior when they exit the base. These people are just here serving their country on behalf of Korea, so you should cut them a little leeway, despite the fact that you may have the “privilege of living with the results”. I don’t notice much difference in the treatment I get from Koreans, especially after I talk with them for a few minutes and they distinguish that even though I’m a foreigner, I’m not someone that beats up taxi drivers. Also worth considering is the fact that the US military has been in Korea to provide security so that it could develop into a place you were willing to stay 4 years. While it may sound good to tout the party line of “there they go again” with the US military, just consider the weight of those words.
I’m sorry, how and when are examples made of them?
Careb,
Good advice.
Even better advise is to to leave the racist shithole full stop. Korean culture is racist to the core.
About the OP, well, I’m sure he will be sufficiently punished. It was a dumb thing to do.
Careb,
Good advice.
Even better advise is to to leave the racist shithole full stop. Korean culture is racist to the core.
About the OP, well, I’m sure he will be sufficiently punished. It was a dumb thing to do.
I certainly wouldn’t do this
but:
Key word here is “hollywood action” and make sure you are more injured than the other guy.
I can just see it now…two guys in the street injuring themselves so they can show the police who is more f-d up
I get a chuckle thinking of that one all the time.
For dogbertt:
Here is one example of how they are made an example of:
http://www.usfk.mil/USFK/Bell-.....member.pdf
Its also incumbent on leaders throughout the various organizations to counsel and brief individuals on these events and their reprecussions. This does happen, although its something you won’t read/see in the news or read about on a blog… so maybe you won’t believe me.
Bluejax21,
So in a few weeks when there is an article about a service member raping a “grandmother” are you going to try to tell me it is something the Korean media is entirely making up or is this a “boys will be boys” case? Maybe he was fighting off her advances?
As far as your comment of: “the US military has been in Korea to provide security so that it could develop into a place you were willing to stay 4 years.”
I appreciate the job that the US military personnel perform, but I don’t believe it is for my personal benefit as a resident of Korea. My guess is the boys are still here because 50 years of trying to push our version of the way to live (Democracy) on the Korean peninsula hasn’t succeeded yet.
I recently spent a month traveling alone on bike in Vietnam…remember them…the communist nation that gave us a beating. I have never felt safer (the communist don’t put up with attacks on tourists very well) and there was no US military there to develop into a place where I am willing to stay for four years.
They did it all by themselves and even welcomed me the American with a smile on their face. I have a feeling if the US pulled out of South Korea tomorrow the Koreans would continue on with their 5,000 years of history just fine without us. Don’t believe everything Bushy is telling you my friend.
The good news is General Bell seems to take this issue a little more seriously than you. Thanks for the early warning on the news to come. I am sure the Korean people will be thrilled to death with the rape of an old woman.
#24 - Creo,
Check the date on that “Bell Sends” again. It’s really old news. It’s been and gone in the Korean press. So your comments are not only snarky, but informed by careless reading.
Possibly your comments are informed by careless thinking? Does the date really matter to support my point? If there is one thing you can count on is our boys will be boys. Whether it is raping grandmothers or off duty female police officers in the toilet (that one was a couple months ago) it will happen again.
Actually, my comments are informed by my total disedification with the hackneyed “Damn GIs messing things up for everyone else (read: “me”) again!” meme.
1) USFK personnel commit crimes at a far lower rate than the general population, be that population Americans in the USA or Koreans in the ROK. Several bloggers (Lost Nomad and GI Korea come to mind) have posted repeatedly on this statistical fact.
2) Notwithstanding #1, USFK personnel are human, ergo they make mistakes—some of which rise to the level of criminality. When this happens, it inevitably makes the news, because the Korean media invariably deems these infractions newsworthy in marked contrast to similar peccadillos committed by the natives.
3) When #2 happens (GI screws up, Korean media plays it up), it is invariably followed by innumerable haughty posts prattling on about USFK’s need for further training, stricter curfews, more communal punishment for infractions, blah blah blah.
4) When someone—generally someone in a position to know, i.e. current or former military—responds to #3 by pointing out that the troops are already trained ad nauseam, communal punishment doesn’t work and is illegal, etc., smug self-righteous poster of #3 dismisses these facts with a rhetorical hand-wave: “Well obviously it’s not working” or the like.
Soldiers are human. Nevertheless, they behave better than the population among which they serve. Having their failings disproportionately spotlighted by the local media distorts the perception of these facts, however. And when people come here and start pontificating about “those damn soldiers” based on the aforementioned distorted perceptions, they’re demanding an unrealistic standard of perfection. And I, for one, am sick and tired of reading it again and again.
#27 UT videam,
I think your model/paradigm sets it about right. It seems I’ve played the role of the person in the know, although its not with regret.
#24 Creo,
The internal workings of the military, let alone USFK, are seldom understood by outsiders (i.e. your average American citizen), let alone that American/Canadian/etc living abroad. I’m not sure what people think gives them the right to come down so hard on USFK, especially ex-pats living in Korea. I don’t see a large USFK movement against ex-pats in Korea, so it would seem unprevoked (I’ve read more than enough articles about misconduct by non-USFK individuals in Korea). And the line of “you guys are screwing it up for us here!” is essentially noted and dismissed. The reason for the US presense in Korea has nothing to do with your lifestyle or personal comforts in Korea, although as I mentioned you benefit from the positive externalities.
The “I have a feeling that if the US pulled out tomorrow…” comment is your feeling, and its incorrect. But, hopefully by 2012 we will be there where the ROKs don’t need us for certain things, but that is to be determined.
It’s always amusing to read posts/comments about USFK/ROK issues on forums like this. I’m sure you know by now, but opinions formed exclusively on the release of public information in the newspapers, tv, etc are usually uninformed because of the lack of a sufficient knowledge base.
Here are some links for you on GI Crime and foreigner crime in general in Korea:
http://rokdrop.com/2004/11/28/.....ropaganda/
http://rokdrop.com/2005/02/13/.....ate-drops/
http://rokdrop.com/2007/01/20/.....-in-korea/
Per capita Koreans commit more crimes and rapes than GIs and foreigners in general.
Since you are “in the know”, could you please give us the sufficient knowledge base to understand the “true facts” of the incident involving the U.S. soldier who raped the 67-year-old Korean grandmother a few months back? Perhaps he was simply helping her out of her clothes so she could move more freely while crossing the street…?
TIA.
I do agree that it’s hypocritical for Koreans to harp on “foreigner crime” in general when their own statistics are so much worse (not to mention the numerous crimes they commit overseas); however, the fact is that a guest military force is properly held to a higher standard of conduct.
I also understand that members of the military have voluntarily given up a certain degree of control of their conduct and behavior to the military, which should make it simpler for the military to keep them from raping pre-teens and elderly women, not to mention assaulting taxi drivers.
Bluejax21,
God where do I even start?
“The internal workings of the military, let alone USFK, are seldom understood by outsiders (i.e. your average American citizen), let alone that American/Canadian/etc living abroad.”
Sounds like the Koreans trying to justify everything they do with, “you couldn’t possibly understand us because you do not know our culture.”
Sorry, don’t buy it when they use it and don’t buy it from you either.
“I’m not sure what people think gives them the right to come down so hard on USFK, especially ex-pats living in Korea.”
As an American citizen I have a right to be concerned (and the right to express it) when a representative of my country (military personnel), violates the human rights of another individual. I am sure you will now tell me you have earned that right for me and as I stated before I appreciate the job you do. None the less when someone wears the uniform of an American soldier they agree to be held to a higher standard that the average citizen and should act accordingly.
“I don’t see a large USFK movement against ex-pats in Korea, so it would seem unprevoked (I’ve read more than enough articles about misconduct by non-USFK individuals in Korea).”
I have never seen an article about an American ex-pat raping a citizen of Korea that didn’t involve a US service member. If you have, please share it with me. Are there American ex-pats in Korea that do stupid things? Yes, I have seen plenty. If they violate the law put them on a plane back home. I don’t excuse their behavior anymore than a soldier’s and they do not represent me or my country.
“The reason for the US presence in Korea has nothing to do with your lifestyle or personal comforts in Korea, although as I mentioned you benefit from the positive externalities.”
Glad to see we agree on this point.
The “I have a feeling that if the US pulled out tomorrow…” comment is your feeling, and its incorrect. But, hopefully by 2012 we will be there where the ROKs don’t need us for certain things, but that is to be determined.”
Let’s not even get into Iraq, Vietnam, etc, etc…we can both wait and see.
It’s always amusing to read posts/comments about USFK/ROK issues on forums like this. I’m sure you know by now, but opinions formed exclusively on the release of public information in the newspapers, tv, etc are usually uninformed because of the lack of a sufficient knowledge base.
Since we can’t trust the Korean press, possibly someone who is as “in the know” as you could enlighten us when the next event occurs as to the true circumstances behind it.
#31 -
Indeed. A standard which is being upheld. What more do you want? Zero incidents? Unrealistic. Ridiculous, in fact.
Yup. And the statistics show that the military is succeeding.
USFK soldiers commit crimes. Some of those crimes are quite horrific. The explanation for this is quite simple. USFK soldiers are people. People commit crimes. Some of those crimes are quite horrific. But while GI misconduct is disproportionately covered by the local media, there is not a systemic problem with USFK personnel committing crimes.
Ut videam
“USFK personnel commit crimes at a far lower rate than the general population, be that population Americans in the USA or Koreans in the ROK. Several bloggers (Lost Nomad and GI Korea come to mind) have posted repeatedly on this statistical fact.”
I really am not interested in comparing the behavior of US soldiers to factory workers from third world Asian countries who are employed in South Korea. Hopefully, you and I can agree 99% of US soldiers recognize it is necessary that they conduct themselves more appropriately than the average industrial slave from Sri Lanka.
“Notwithstanding #1, USFK personnel are human, ergo they make mistakes—some of which rise to the level of criminality. When this happens, it inevitably makes the news, because the Korean media invariably deems these infractions newsworthy in marked contrast to similar peccadillos committed by the natives.”
The reasons these events are newsworthy are because the perpetrators are wearing the American flag on their shoulder. When you sign up to be a soldier you represent America 24 hours a day. Anyone who doubts they can live up to this responsibility (which they accepted with their own free will) should go back to the states. Their behavior will be viewed much more leniently there.
“When #2 happens (GI screws up, Korean media plays it up), it is invariably followed by innumerable haughty posts prattling on about USFK’s need for further training, stricter curfews, more communal punishment for infractions, blah blah blah.”
Exactly. The rape of a Korean grandmother and an off duty female Korean police officer within the span of 6 months is totally unacceptable. “Further training, stricter curfews, more communal punishment for infractions, blah blah blah” is absolutely warranted and necessary until every US service member gets the message and this behavior stops. As I have said, I have not seen an article where a US ex-pat has raped a Korean citizen in the four years I have been here. If you can find one point it out to me please…seriously. I will certainly apologize for singling out the US soldiers who did this, but the fact remains an American ex-pat represents neither me or my county.
“When someone—generally someone in a position to know, i.e. current or former military—responds to #3 by pointing out that the troops are already trained ad nauseam, communal punishment doesn’t work and is illegal, etc., smug self-righteous poster of #3 dismisses these facts with a rhetorical hand-wave: “Well obviously it’s not working” or the like.
The rape of a Korean grandmother and an off duty female Korean police officer within the span of 6 months is totally unacceptable and shows the policies are not working. There is not an acceptable allowance for rape in my mind.
“Soldiers are human. Nevertheless, they behave better than the population among which they serve. Having their failings disproportionately spotlighted by the local media distorts the perception of these facts, however. And when people come here and start pontificating about “those damn soldiers” based on the aforementioned distorted perceptions, they’re demanding an unrealistic standard of perfection. And I, for one, am sick and tired of reading it again and again.”
I agree with you that the vast majority of US soldiers serve their country everyday with honor. Unfortunately, one act (intentional or unintentional) by a US service member can have significant and lasting social impacts in Korea. That is just the reality. Those who can not accept this are best advised to head back to the good old US until they are a few years older and hopefully more mature and willing to fully accept the commitments they have made to America and the American people.
“But while GI misconduct is disproportionately covered by the local media, there is not a systemic problem with USFK personnel committing crimes.”
I agree 100%.
Sadly for those who follow the rules though American Soldiers “go together.” When these activities take place US soldiers and US citizens slso share the undesirable repercussions “together.”
So Creo, to summarize your position:
Regardless of the fact that USFK personnel commit crimes at a far lower rate than their host population (i.e., Koreans), USFK personnel represent America (read: you) and therefore no level of misconduct, however small, can be deemed acceptable. In order to enforce this zero tolerance standard, it is “absolutely warranted and necessary” to waste the troops’ time on even more sensitivity training and to violate their rights under the U.S. Constitution and Uniform Code of Military Justice. And until the zero tolerance standard is met, you will continue to bitch and moan every time a USFK person screws up—because it’s your right to be concerned and to express it as an American citizen.
Have I missed anything?
Yeah, but here’s the thing — on a practical level, stupid expats DO represent you and your country, just as much as the GI with the US flag on his shoulder. When netizen flame wars start over asinine English teachers, for example, rarely is it pointed out that English teachers are not employees of their home governments.
And if I might express my opinion — it is my blog, after all — I might say that I think there are discipline problems with USFK; whatever they are doing about the taxi situation clearly isn’t working, and I don’t believe the boorish behavior of the GIs who videotaped their antics in a Seoul subway — or the asshats who were photographing their dicks on a Gwangju subway — are entirely isolated and may represent problematic attitudes held by some — not all, but some — USFK members. That being said, I also think USFK, generally speaking, is a better behaved bunch than the English teacher crowd. At least with USFK, they’re part of a society that values discipline, responsibility and standards. English teachers, meanwhile, are free of the social restrictions of their own societies, and often feel that the social restrictions of their host society do not apply to them.
“So Creo, to summarize your position:
Regardless of the fact that USFK personnel commit crimes at a far lower rate than their host population (i.e., Koreans), USFK personnel represent America (read: you) and therefore no level of misconduct, however small, can be deemed acceptable. In order to enforce this zero tolerance standard, it is “absolutely warranted and necessary” to waste the troops’ time on even more sensitivity training and to violate their rights under the U.S. Constitution and Uniform Code of Military Justice. And until the zero tolerance standard is met, you will continue to bitch and moan every time a USFK person screws up—because it’s your right to be concerned and to express it as an American citizen.
Have I missed anything?”
USFK personnel are to be commended for the fact they commit crimes at a far lower rate than their host population (Koreans).
Here is where you start to lose me though, “USFK personnel represent America (read: you) and therefore no level of misconduct, however small, can be deemed acceptable.”
What bothers me is the attitude of “boys will be boys” and “screw ups” and the suggestion that there should be an acceptable level of tolerance. Let me clarify. This is a country where an “accident” involving USFK personnel (Paju 2002) which results in the death of two Korean children can impact relations for years. This began with an accident. Now you can try to make my argument trivial by saying I am knit picking about bar fights but we both know that is not what I am discussing.
Is it necessary to “waste the troops’ time on even more sensitivity training and to violate their rights under the U.S. Constitution and Uniform Code of Military Justice” and continue this until everyone accepts that there will be zero tolerance for acts of rape against Korean grandmothers and off duty female Korean police officers in the toilet…abso fuckin lutely! And, as I said before, those not mature enough to understand the importance of this would be wise to head back to the comforts of the USA. Exotic lands will always be available to explore once they have matured enough to do so responsibly.
Robert,
It is your blog and your opinion is always welcome.
However…
“On a practical level, stupid expats DO represent you and your country, just as much as the GI with the US flag on his shoulder.”
I simply don’t agree and I sense that most Korean men having “served” their county would share a similar belief that a soldier wearing a flag on his shoulder is held to a higher standard of accountability than a citizen.
“I also think USFK, generally speaking, is a better behaved bunch than the English teacher crowd. At least with USFK, they’re part of a society that values discipline, responsibility and standards. English teachers, meanwhile, are free of the social restrictions of their own societies, and often feel that the social restrictions of their host society do not apply to them.”
I also agree with you here. The disappointing fact though is the fact that the most horrendous acts seem to come from the USFK. Long after the intentional offenses of “English Spectrum” have been forgotten Koreans will be reminiscing about the USFK accident that took the lives of two young Koreans.
The ex-pat crowd here is certainly not disciplined and receives little if any guidance from anyone. We don’t undergo hours of “sensitivity training” and in fact most young ex-pats receive poor instruction on behavior by viewing the behavior of Korean men. So why is it for all their effort the USFK seems to be able to top the ex-pat community with a few simple “screw ups.”
How does a caged animal act once the door to that cage is opened?
#27
It’s not just the USFK personnel but the whole expat community in Korea that commit crimes at a lower rate than Korean citizens here. The reasons are obvious: foreigners who legally come to work or live in Korea must go through a screening process that aims keep most of the riffraff out.
Oh really?
I seem to recall that Clinton had to fly to Japan just to apologize for a group of Marines that had raped some pre-teen Okinawan girls.
Is it common for a sitting president to do that when Joe Civilian screws up? I don’t think so.
And why does a piece of shit like Lynndie England have a major effect on foreign policy while your average WT female acting up in Itaewon does not?
Back to topic: Does anyone here actually know what happened in this incident? I sure as hell am not taking the Korean press at its word.
#32 Creo
“Sounds like the Koreans trying to justify everything they do with, “you couldn’t possibly understand us because you do not know our culture.”
Sorry, don’t buy it when they use it and don’t buy it from you either.”
No one is asking you to buy anything I’m saying. It’s a fact - the internal workings of the military especially its relationship with the ROK exists at levels and depths that aren’t privy to public eye, and processes and decisions are made that will never be reported in the Korea Times. I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you any of that. You don’t seem to be nieve enough to think that everything is an open process here. Its up to you whether you “buy it” or not, but the fact is you fundamentally cannot understand all of the dynamics of each situation because you don’t have access and likely never will (that’s not meant to be offensive).
“As an American citizen I have a right to be concerned…”
Absolutely. You have all sorts of rights. Good on you. I’m not sure you have the whole bunch here in Korea that you might have back in the States, but as far as your ability to write what you want on this blog, you are well within your God given rights as an American. And go ahead and be concerned about rights violations. I just hope that people have these concerns while considering the present conditions of individuals serving in Korea.
I think that the bottom line is that the zero tolerance policy towards military members here in USFK is an untenable expetation. These individuals will inevitably slip up every once in a while, they will get hammered and made an example out of, the leadership will work their ass of trying to prevent another incident, but then it will happen somewhere down the line. If you don’t think that people live in a restrictive environment here in USFK, then you have not seen the environment that individuals live in north of Seoul. If it makes you unhappy that events like these continue, then join the club. It pisses off USFK more than anybody, I’m sure. I think to some degree Koreans have adjusted and gotten used to their occurance and accepted the fact that USFK is doing its best and does not rejoice when events like these transpire. If you continue to hold your position that all USFK members should be angels wearing a combat uniform, then you are well within your rights (as we have discussed) to do so. I just don’t think you will get many sympathetic ears to seriously consider your arguments.
bluejax21,
“No one is asking you to buy anything I’m saying. It’s a fact - the internal workings of the military especially its relationship with the ROK exists at levels and depths that aren’t privy to public eye, and processes and decisions are made that will never be reported in the Korea Times. I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you any of that. You don’t seem to be nieve enough to think that everything is an open process here. Its up to you whether you “buy it” or not, but the fact is you fundamentally cannot understand all of the dynamics of each situation because you don’t have access and likely never will (that’s not meant to be offensive).”
Agreed.
“Absolutely. You have all sorts of rights. Good on you. I’m not sure you have the whole bunch here in Korea that you might have back in the States, but as far as your ability to write what you want on this blog, you are well within your God given rights as an American. And go ahead and be concerned about rights violations. I just hope that people have these concerns while considering the present conditions of individuals serving in Korea.”
Agreed.
“I think that the bottom line is that the zero tolerance policy towards military members here in USFK is an untenable expetation. These individuals will inevitably slip up every once in a while, they will get hammered and made an example out of, the leadership will work their ass of trying to prevent another incident, but then it will happen somewhere down the line. If you don’t think that people live in a restrictive environment here in USFK, then you have not seen the environment that individuals live in north of Seoul. If it makes you unhappy that events like these continue, then join the club. It pisses off USFK more than anybody, I’m sure. I think to some degree Koreans have adjusted and gotten used to their occurance and accepted the fact that USFK is doing its best and does not rejoice when events like these transpire. If you continue to hold your position that all USFK members should be angels wearing a combat uniform, then you are well within your rights (as we have discussed) to do so. I just don’t think you will get many sympathetic ears to seriously consider your arguments.”
Agreed…except for …
“I just don’t think you will get many sympathetic ears to seriously consider your arguments.”
I assume you are referring to USFK personnel? Otherwise, I think it is safe to say you are out of touch with the concerns of the ex-pat community in Korea. Having absolutely no connection to the event we are non the less the ones who get to ride to work on the bus and subway every day with Koreans trying to stare a whole in the back of our head after each of these occurrences.
I am guessing that at the same time you are tucked away nicely on lock down for a month or so on your base…trust me …you are not as “pissed off” as the average ex-pat after one of these events.
hole…damn it I can’t proof read!
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[...] soldiers in Uijongbu have been arrested for allegedly punching a man in the face for staring at them and pushing the victims girlfriend to [...]
[...] haven’t seen anything in the English dailies on this yet but I have to say; [...]