<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: From the Heart of Baekje Country</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Sep 2008 19:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96951</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96951</guid>
		<description>what I like about the Yi Kingdom is that there is transparency in its historical annals.

I strongly suspect that Baduk is right on why this is so, though.  

Most likely the Chinese forced Chosun to write it thus.

There are a lot of events covered in the Chosun annals that you would think they would rather beautify or hide.  My goodness, there were a lot of things covered in there that seemed like private family info to say the least.

In addition, there is Sae Jong, and Yi Soon Shin.  And lately, there is a reverance for Jeong Jo, who I brought up previously as Young Jo's grandson, who was contemplating invading Qing and opening up to the West.

However, guess who blocks that route?

Well, the same family that survived into the Koryo kingdom and made it weak via marrying into the king's family and acting as a Wae Chuk.  The Kims did that to Koryo and continued it to the Chosun kingdom.  The An Dong Kims in particular for Chosun.  Nothing but a parasite.

Interestingly, the Kims, Parks, and Lee's are to be found ubiquitously, but the Wangs, the poor Wangs !

Lee Bang Won and Lee Seung Kyae really put an effort to almost annihilate that blood line in Korea.  I think they allowed one or two to survive the line in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what I like about the Yi Kingdom is that there is transparency in its historical annals.</p>
<p>I strongly suspect that Baduk is right on why this is so, though.  </p>
<p>Most likely the Chinese forced Chosun to write it thus.</p>
<p>There are a lot of events covered in the Chosun annals that you would think they would rather beautify or hide.  My goodness, there were a lot of things covered in there that seemed like private family info to say the least.</p>
<p>In addition, there is Sae Jong, and Yi Soon Shin.  And lately, there is a reverance for Jeong Jo, who I brought up previously as Young Jo&#8217;s grandson, who was contemplating invading Qing and opening up to the West.</p>
<p>However, guess who blocks that route?</p>
<p>Well, the same family that survived into the Koryo kingdom and made it weak via marrying into the king&#8217;s family and acting as a Wae Chuk.  The Kims did that to Koryo and continued it to the Chosun kingdom.  The An Dong Kims in particular for Chosun.  Nothing but a parasite.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the Kims, Parks, and Lee&#8217;s are to be found ubiquitously, but the Wangs, the poor Wangs !</p>
<p>Lee Bang Won and Lee Seung Kyae really put an effort to almost annihilate that blood line in Korea.  I think they allowed one or two to survive the line in the end.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wjk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96949</link>
		<dc:creator>wjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96949</guid>
		<description>probably the temples were the only ones allowed to persist.  Everything else is a reminder of the former enemy kingdom, thus burned to the ground.  Buddhism was common to all, though.

Give or take, I don't put much credence in Sam Guk Yusa or Sam Guk Sagi.

Written 500 to 1000 years after the event for one.

When Baekjae and Goguryo were about to be sacked, it is written that rivers turned blood red, hens started roosting at night, evil spirits came out in broad day light declaring the impending doom of the kingdom, and animals did weird things that have never been seen before.

All for the impending historic unification by Shilla that won't go pass the Dae Dong river. 

And, involving continental China, and to establish what would be roughly 1500 years of a servant-master relationship with China.

Gosh, I really wonder do why and how come rivers didn't turn blood red when Goryo went bust and Chosun signed itself under Japan.

By the way, while all Shilla kings were born out of the elements pretty much,

One of the Baekjae kings are supposed to have been descended from a commoner who married into the kingdom.

Make no mistake about it.  The Kims wrote history.

And it's a shame they chose to lie about it.

Now, 2/3 of Korean history is pretty much bull shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>probably the temples were the only ones allowed to persist.  Everything else is a reminder of the former enemy kingdom, thus burned to the ground.  Buddhism was common to all, though.</p>
<p>Give or take, I don&#8217;t put much credence in Sam Guk Yusa or Sam Guk Sagi.</p>
<p>Written 500 to 1000 years after the event for one.</p>
<p>When Baekjae and Goguryo were about to be sacked, it is written that rivers turned blood red, hens started roosting at night, evil spirits came out in broad day light declaring the impending doom of the kingdom, and animals did weird things that have never been seen before.</p>
<p>All for the impending historic unification by Shilla that won&#8217;t go pass the Dae Dong river. </p>
<p>And, involving continental China, and to establish what would be roughly 1500 years of a servant-master relationship with China.</p>
<p>Gosh, I really wonder do why and how come rivers didn&#8217;t turn blood red when Goryo went bust and Chosun signed itself under Japan.</p>
<p>By the way, while all Shilla kings were born out of the elements pretty much,</p>
<p>One of the Baekjae kings are supposed to have been descended from a commoner who married into the kingdom.</p>
<p>Make no mistake about it.  The Kims wrote history.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s a shame they chose to lie about it.</p>
<p>Now, 2/3 of Korean history is pretty much bull shit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sewing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96946</link>
		<dc:creator>sewing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96946</guid>
		<description>I want to check out Buyeo some day...part of the big Chungnam-Jeolla trip I have to do to fill in the biggest gap of places I haven't been too.  Nahkhwa-am sounds like it'll be some good exercise.

Just a thought, though: it seems rather odd to have murals like that in a Buddhist temple, doesn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to check out Buyeo some day&#8230;part of the big Chungnam-Jeolla trip I have to do to fill in the biggest gap of places I haven&#8217;t been too.  Nahkhwa-am sounds like it&#8217;ll be some good exercise.</p>
<p>Just a thought, though: it seems rather odd to have murals like that in a Buddhist temple, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WangKon936</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96757</link>
		<dc:creator>WangKon936</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96757</guid>
		<description>I've also visited Bueyo and Nakhwa-am.  Freak'in 30 minute trek uphill.  My "journey," if you will, is chronicled in more detail then you'd ever like to know here:  

http://eds-trip-to-korea.blogspot.com/2006/05/entry-for-april-30th.html

Considering how rocky and steep the Nakhwa area is, I found myself asking how in the world do 3,000 ladies in devilishly impractical, non-mountain climbing dresses, make the hike here?  Well it could of been that 1,500 years ago the area was flatter, with normal erosion playing a role in making it more rocky, etc.  Who knows?  But actually going to the area today doesn't make you believe the story anymore then if you hadn't had gone.

Regarding the Samguk Yusa, I am not particularly impressed with Ilyon's historical abilities.  He doesn't seem to care about harmonizing the various sources he's got like Kim Pu Sik does in the Sagi.  Ultimately, Ilyon's goal was not to make a rational, dynastic chronicle like the Sagi, but more of a data dump type, loose collection of stories and legends from decaying and disappearing primary sources.  Having said that, Ilyon doesn't seem to "make up" anything and he was probably jotting down some local oral history on the matter.  Finally, if the story was invented by Silla to make the Baekje king look bad, the it certainly would have been in the Samguk Sagi as the chronicler of that history certainly didn't have any love for Baekje but had ALOT of love for Silla, given his family background.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve also visited Bueyo and Nakhwa-am.  Freak&#8217;in 30 minute trek uphill.  My &#8220;journey,&#8221; if you will, is chronicled in more detail then you&#8217;d ever like to know here:  </p>
<p><a href="http://eds-trip-to-korea.blogspot.com/2006/05/entry-for-april-30th.html" rel="nofollow">http://eds-trip-to-korea.blogs.....-30th.html</a></p>
<p>Considering how rocky and steep the Nakhwa area is, I found myself asking how in the world do 3,000 ladies in devilishly impractical, non-mountain climbing dresses, make the hike here?  Well it could of been that 1,500 years ago the area was flatter, with normal erosion playing a role in making it more rocky, etc.  Who knows?  But actually going to the area today doesn&#8217;t make you believe the story anymore then if you hadn&#8217;t had gone.</p>
<p>Regarding the Samguk Yusa, I am not particularly impressed with Ilyon&#8217;s historical abilities.  He doesn&#8217;t seem to care about harmonizing the various sources he&#8217;s got like Kim Pu Sik does in the Sagi.  Ultimately, Ilyon&#8217;s goal was not to make a rational, dynastic chronicle like the Sagi, but more of a data dump type, loose collection of stories and legends from decaying and disappearing primary sources.  Having said that, Ilyon doesn&#8217;t seem to &#8220;make up&#8221; anything and he was probably jotting down some local oral history on the matter.  Finally, if the story was invented by Silla to make the Baekje king look bad, the it certainly would have been in the Samguk Sagi as the chronicler of that history certainly didn&#8217;t have any love for Baekje but had ALOT of love for Silla, given his family background.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96657</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96657</guid>
		<description>The other thing is that when the Samguk Yusa says "3,000," it probably doesn't mean "3,000."  It just means "a lot."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other thing is that when the Samguk Yusa says &#8220;3,000,&#8221; it probably doesn&#8217;t mean &#8220;3,000.&#8221;  It just means &#8220;a lot.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sanshinseon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96656</link>
		<dc:creator>sanshinseon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96656</guid>
		<description>"3,000 court ladies" definitely does not mean wives of the King -- probably included every high-class woman in that capital city -- then 3000 makes some sense.  Still, i'm sure Robert's correct that it's an exaggeration...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;3,000 court ladies&#8221; definitely does not mean wives of the King &#8212; probably included every high-class woman in that capital city &#8212; then 3000 makes some sense.  Still, i&#8217;m sure Robert&#8217;s correct that it&#8217;s an exaggeration&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Koehler</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96654</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Koehler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96654</guid>
		<description>I believe the legend of the 3,000 court ladies comes from the Samguk Yusa. Yes, it's probably an exaggeration, if not a complete fabrication. Nevertheless, it's a touching tale (although a friend pointed out the more contemporary version of the tale, the mass suicides on Saipan and Okinawa during WWII, are considered slightly less romantic, at least outside of Japan).

Another interesting point is that while the court ladies may have went down with the ship, the king and crown prince (who had fled to Gongju after the Battle of Hwangsanbeol broke the last Baekje defensive line and opened the way to the capital) did not.  They instead surrendered and were brought to China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the legend of the 3,000 court ladies comes from the Samguk Yusa. Yes, it&#8217;s probably an exaggeration, if not a complete fabrication. Nevertheless, it&#8217;s a touching tale (although a friend pointed out the more contemporary version of the tale, the mass suicides on Saipan and Okinawa during WWII, are considered slightly less romantic, at least outside of Japan).</p>
<p>Another interesting point is that while the court ladies may have went down with the ship, the king and crown prince (who had fled to Gongju after the Battle of Hwangsanbeol broke the last Baekje defensive line and opened the way to the capital) did not.  They instead surrendered and were brought to China.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SomeguyinKorea</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96580</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeguyinKorea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96580</guid>
		<description>"i think it’s possible to find out the truth by doing some underwater digging for women’s jewelry, clothing, bones, etc."

Well, there would be the little problem of bodies floating away when they become bloated with gas as they start to decompose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;i think it’s possible to find out the truth by doing some underwater digging for women’s jewelry, clothing, bones, etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, there would be the little problem of bodies floating away when they become bloated with gas as they start to decompose.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gbnhj</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96577</link>
		<dc:creator>gbnhj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96577</guid>
		<description>DFS is a global chain of duty-free retailers. Japanese are sometimes lampooned in Korea as coming here only for shopping on the cheap. Actually, however, loads of Japanese tourists really do come to check out this country and its culture &lt;strike&gt;and go shopping on the cheap&lt;/strike&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DFS is a global chain of duty-free retailers. Japanese are sometimes lampooned in Korea as coming here only for shopping on the cheap. Actually, however, loads of Japanese tourists really do come to check out this country and its culture <strike>and go shopping on the cheap</strike>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mateomiguel</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96571</link>
		<dc:creator>mateomiguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/07/16/from-the-heart-of-baekje-country/#comment-96571</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry for asking, but what's DFS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry for asking, but what&#8217;s DFS?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
