I’m speechless.
Seriously. I’m at a loss for something to say. Besides the title of the post.
YTN reports that the netizens are pissed off — and rightfully so, I might add — at a bunch of foreigners who decided to make a drunken scene in a Seoul subway, a scene that included singing a song that degraded Korean (and Japanese) women. And then posting a video of their adventure on Youtube.
It appears the Youtube videos (they apparently made several — see here) have been taken down, but you can get some of it by watching the YTN news report. If you have the stomach for it, that is.
If there was ever a group of foreigners in desperate need of a beat-down, this was it.
It’s a real credit to Korean society as a whole that these guys got off the subway alive.
UPDATE: Here’s the story at Naver.com. Always fun to read the netizen comments — 2,945 and counting!
Meanwhile, Mr. Hurt levels some criticism at YTN over at Scribblings of a Metropolitician. I’m not going to critique Michael — as usual, he makes a lot of good points — but I think a far more interesting analysis would have been of the social factors that could have produced such a, well, frankly, colonial attitude that these fucktards on the video thought it would actually be OK to not only behave like that in a public place, but also upload video footage of said behavior onto Youtube for the world to see.
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I wouldn’t have been so nice had I been there, and I’m not even Korean. Losers.
Such idiots are spoiling it all for the rest of us…
Links don’t work. The video at the first link won’t work on Mozilla and it crashes when I try to view it with Explorer; the videos at the second link seem to have been taken down from Youtube.
The first link works on my Modzilla, but yes, the Youtube videos have been taken down.
Your security settings must be set lower than mine. I get a warning message on Mozilla that the plug-in has attempted to perform and illegal operation and advises me to restart the browser.
It’s too bad YTN blanked out the faces. Are the Pusan 9 out on parole?
I liked the leg slappers much better than these fools, who might have some problems now too.
Someguy, my security settings are definitely too high as well. Mozilla told me to turn off the computer and leave the country.
Here is a video on the subway from my station (Nakseongdae) that someone else made.
It’s a small world sometimes.
Sure, they’re acting like retards, but is it really worth saying it’s justified for such a video to build nationwide anti-foreign anger that results in media coverage? Since when should a youtube video of some guys getting drunk and acting like assholes be worthy of mainstream news coverage?
I’m glad that such videos aren’t newsworthy over here, since I can think of dozens of similar videos on youtube showing drunk foreigners acting like assholes on Japanese trains, with some of them possibly worse than what these guys did in the videos you mention.
Nationwide anti-foreign anger? Like the nationwide anti-foreign anger that allowed these guys to get off the subway in one piece?
Ok, the video finally loaded for me, and I can definitely say I’ve seen popular youtube videos of foreigners in Japan doing worse than what that news report says.
I was referring to the netizen rage you mentioned, which certainly must have been pretty large if it got news coverage, right?
String them up and hang the bastards…like I think that is the first time in the history of history itself men have done something like that. I know that I for one have never seen the locals being loud and obnoxious while actually physically harassing women.
Complete non-issue
It’s just something very stupid to do in a country where there is a significant amount of racial inequality and discrimination. I mean, it was something stupid to do in general, but yeah. I wish I wasn’t a few hours late so I could have seen the actual video and made a judgement myself.
I mentioned netizens getting pissed off, but I didn’t mention nationwide anti-foreign anger, either online or off.
That’s not to say that much of the online rage didn’t take a racist overtone. I’m sure I did. And is it “newsworthy”? Well, it’s about as newsworthy as drunk Koreans acting like dumb assholes abroad, which gets plenty of media attention, and given how the videos got posted on Youtube, it gets extra “media-worthy” points for stupidity.
Did the older Korean man get knocked on his ass?
The only thing racial I saw is a bunch of Westerners who clearly held Koreans in open contempt.
Oh sorry, someone told me the guy on the floor in suit and tie was a white guy who was with them.
I didn’t realise until after I came across to the Marmot’s Hole that there are many skanky foreign garbages in Korea, who do not hesitate to make racist remarks against Koreans, but they are the first ones to criticise the Koreans when Koreans make some racist remarks or show such behaviour toward other races.
I think Korean police should find out the culprits and kick them out.
There are no more foreign garbages in Korea than there are Korean garbages in Australia, and possibly even less.
I’m sure there are garbages everywhere from every country, no doubt. But it’s an extremely stupid thing to do to show publicly open contempt of the native population in a public place like a subway, then worst of all, post it on the Youtubes so that the entire world can see it. Imagine if a bunch of Koreans did the same thing in the New York subway, they would have been beaten to a pulp in the train.
Apparently, the guys behind the videos, or their friends, read this blog. I don’t know what else could have clued them in that a shit storm was coming their way.
Do Korean men act obnoxious and degrading toward women when they are drunk? Sure, many do. That does not give people who are GUESTS in this country the right to act like that. They are REPRESENTATIVES of their countries and of the ex-pat community in general. It shows a complete lack of respect for the people of the host country, as well as for those of us who have chosen to live here and get to know the people, as well as do our best to squash the stereotypes that so many here have of the West and Westerners.
I say that they should pack up and leave, if not voluntarily, than with a collective boot in the arse from the Korean people and those of us in the ex-pat community who have a modicum of respect for this country.
#22 – Which is too bad, really. They deserve whatever they get, and then some. This kind of stuff makes me pine for sorryasses like Angus Yates. At least they stir up shit one at a time. As Homer* put it, “Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
* Simpson, that is.
#24.
Yeah,
Being jerks in front of the camera and posting it online while knowing that some Korean netizens are begging for an excuse to be offended by foreigners certainly wasn’t a very smart thing to do.
“Imagine if a bunch of Koreans did the same thing in the New York subway, they would have been beaten to a pulp in the train.”
Not true at all. In NY most people would have ignored it or moved to the next car. It would be VERY unusual for someone to start beating up a group of drunk Korean guys singing in Korean.
#26
Right. I doubt many people would have understood word of it.
#26 –
agreed. And plus, if you ever took the subway in New York City, it’s usually dominated by Hispanics, Blacks, or Chinese, depending on which train it is. So making fun of the majority (Whites) race in the country would be less relevant.
At the risk of derailing this thread into a Tu quoque flame war, is there a huge difference between the tripe we all just witnessed courtesy of YTN and, say, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27QToJoBAiE
I guess my point is that if have an agenda, you can find all sorts of grubby manifestations of your pet hate. The video I linked to was easy to find – but has a very small number of hits. Why is that? Why isn’t this on Lateline and/or a pressing issue on US internet forums? Could it be that Americans simply have better things to do than search out and hate on a particular ethnic group? I don’t think its any worse than the vid YTN is making a national point of.
Don’t get me wrong, the guys are scumbags and if I had been there I would have got a lot of satisfaction smashing their little camcorder, but there is another point to be made here: it’s newsworthiness is fuelled by the same sentiment that leads the Hanky to write an essay on an ajuma getting her arm brushed by a G.I’s car.
Robert: Well, it’s about as newsworthy as drunk Koreans acting like dumb assholes abroad
Maybe my head’s been buried in the sand, but I haven’t seen or read too many reports regarding said people, certainly not on Korean TV.
A disclaimer, I couldn’t make much sense of what was happening on the vid links you posted, so can’t vouch for just how bad they were.
Can’t we get our “Dog Poop Girl” Orwelian mojo on and find out who these people are?
Ew I hate seeing that Red China flag next to my moniker. Can you change it to an ROC flag or something?
I also found this VANK video you might find interesting/funny Marmot (despite possible hate-mongering poster):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7dcW67grM
Classic.
That’s also not true. The majority of the people on the NYC subways are white. And in this case making fun of white people would not be the equivalent of making fun of Koreans. It would be making fun of Americans.
There’s quite a difference between putting an “f-USA” video made from a basement in Seoul and guys basically laughing and spitting on their host country. They seem to be ridiculing the very thing that they feel empowers them. For being so vacuous they are officially in the “piece of crap club”. Apologies to their family and freinds.
It’s too bad. These guys can’t get phone numbers back home. Women are apparently drawn to them here despite their being children of the corn.
Robert Reports:
“YTN reports that the netizens are pissed off — and rightfully so, I might add ”
Robert Comments:
“If there was ever a group of foreigners in desperate need of a beat-down, this was it.”
It’s called Stockholm Syndrome, Robert.
This comment is the equivalent of some imaginary Chinese American posting a video of Asian-Americans being drunk and silly, translating it, and calling for them to get beat up.
These guys might deserve a “what the hell was that? Smarten up” from people who know them, but a “beat-down”?
We’re a minority here, Robert. Lots of foreign guys here get menaced and assaulted on a regular basis. I got it all the time myself when I was single and younger.
These guys, they are being self-refrentially dumb, but none of the Koreans around has a clue. And by the way, talking trash about foreigners in front of their faces is like the national sport here. Koreans love doing it.
Message from the Marmot: Pls be “good niggers. I’m trying to get from the porch to the livingroom, here.”
I feel bad saying such hard stuff to you, but I really do disagree with your reaction to this stuff.
Well, I fail to see how acting the part of ‘bad niggers’ in a sea of KKK wannabees makes the situation all that much better for folks of all colors just tryin’ to get through another day. I’m not Korean but I’m sure that I would have taken offense at these asswipes had they invaded my subway car. It was not cute in any culture.
Amazing how much I hear about foreign guys getting menaced and assaulted on a regular basis. I’ve been here, what, 10 years, and most of that in countryside areas where attitudes would kindly be described as provincial, and I can count the amount of unpleasant episodes of this sort on one hand. Must be the hanbok. And the “house nigger” attitude.
No, the message is, some folk need to stop acting like its Happy Valley circa 1925. Wait, excuse me — even the Happy Valley set had more respect for the “natives.”
What are we worried about here? Do they make you look bad? IS it going to make it harder to get laid? Is it harder to get private work? Oh, please…Stop being so self-conscious. These guys are jerks, and that is their problem. This is not about you.
Gosh, it is like high school around here.
MY post was obviously not intended to be a reply to Robert’s in #39. THe YOU is a the general “you”.
since the videos are gone, i’ve got very little notion of what is transpiring here—except that a few people who don’t happen to be Korean were involved in some kind of intoxicated debacle on the subway.
to that i say: so what? if they got on the subway tanked, made asses of themselves, verbally degraded women and made a scene in general while being stupid enough to video tape the whole thing for the police, then send them better words than “fucking assholes”.
they are obviously new here and do not yet have the stamina to take on the psychological pressures of living here. it sounds like they got drunk and blew off steam, a lot of steam. and rather than channeling that steam into something better like many long-term expats here, they spat out on random people in the subway.
i agree with Robert that they are lucky to have been able to walk off the train under their own power, but that has more to do with the time, teh location and being in a group. had this been one guy or two, they would have been “beat-down” and then taken to jail and likely deported for defending themselves.
i think that wishing or suggesting that someone or a group of people deserve a “beat-down” because of socially objectionable behavior is a kind of peer induced fascism and is far more degenerate than what appears to have taken place with these lads.
but … i didn’t see the video.
i’m not going to sift through the comments at YTN to read the nibbles of angry \thought when it’s very probable that most of the netizens that have dropped their 4 cents make a hobby out of hate.
hate, hate-mongering, and fear of “The Foreign Man” (notice that fear “The Foreign Woman” coverage is absent always) already get too much air time in Korea and the way this post is written feels not like an exposition of disgust or disappointment of one’s compatriots, but a me-too chime in the chorus of expat disenchantment and English Teacher disdain.
It is not fascism to sock somebody in the chops who DELIBERATELY goes to a public place and DELIBERATELY insults you to your face for no reason.
Just for the record, Nakseongdae is my station.
#34 -
Sorry, but you are wrong. I’ve lived in New York City for 22 years, and I’ve taken public transportation for the last 12 of them. If you are referring to the train (Long Island Railroad) Whites may BARELY be a majority, but probably aren’t, and if you are referring to buses or the subway, whites are definitely the minority.
aigu chamna!
(i won’t even bother searching for those videos)
“…think a far more interesting analysis would have been of the social factors that could have produced such a, well, frankly, ‘colonial’ attitude…”
“…a kind of peer induced fascism…”
Also ref several prev references to slavery, KKK, etc etc.
Does every single instance of obnoxious behavior by a bunch of jerks have to be immediately placed in a political context? Can’t a hooligan just be a plain old hooligan, without regard to creed, race, religion, color of skin, national origin, sexual preference, etc etc.
Only when a brutish ruffian is judged not by the color of his skin but by the content of his character will we be truly free. Arrest them, fine them, deport them, put them in the ring for tae kwon do practice dummies — just spare us the mandatory pc agonizing.
P.S.: I wish to speak up on behalf of whatever few former colonial administrators may still be extant, prb in nursing homes somewhere in the Midlands.
Even those British Indian colonial officials who despised Gandhi utterly were nevertheless careful to address him as “Mr.” in their personal encounters (at least, going by the movie). Hardly fair to lump them in with this lot, eh wot?
Late to the party here. Where are these videos? There must be some active link – anyone know of one?
Dunno dokdo. I’ve already exceeded my lifetime quota of having to look at jerks so I just went by what others said.
These guys are idiots, but I think NYC’s subways have the worst passengers like this subway perv, who got caught masturbating and made the front cover of the NY Daily News:
http://nymag.com/news/features/16576/
Thanks for that link, BK. Wow! I LMAO at the crank phone calls and anagram on p.3 of the story. I had a similar experience last summer at the library and didn’t have the sense to snap a photo with my cell phone.
Amen, amen.
“Does every single instance of obnoxious behavior by a bunch of jerks have to be immediately placed in a political context? Can’t a hooligan just be a plain old hooligan, without regard to creed, race, religion, color of skin, national origin, sexual preference, etc etc.
Only when a brutish ruffian is judged not by the color of his skin but by the content of his character will we be truly free. “
Amen, amen.
This really shouldn’t be news nor should any foreigner have to question how it will impact them..but this is Korea. Then again some things are just common sense and these idiots clearly lack common sense. My guess is that the Koreans on the subway were so scared by the display that they probably weren’t even trying to understand what was being said. I also think Koreans in general (not the net crazies or racist media) are pretty tolerant of highly inappropriate behavior by foreigners most times.
I witnessed three drunk, white guys on a subway one Saturday night carrying around a large Korean flag like a rag doll. I am sure they had no intention of being disrespectful but that isn’t the way you handle a flag. Koreans on the train were clearly uncomfortable but tried to ignore them. Being a bit concerned for their lives, I asked the soberest of the three to have his friend fold up the flag and put it in his bag. Once he looked around and saw everyone on the train staring at us that was all it took for him to realize their poor judgment and the flag quickly disappeared.
Yeah, these guys are clearly assholes of the lowest order, but it is always morbidly amusing to see Korean netizens – in one of Asia’s whoring hubs – condemn foreigners’ attitudes/behavior with regard to Korean women. Like they give a shit about their plight otherwise. Next!
According to the ROK Drop blog, the foreigners on the subway
are in the US Air Force, one is an Osan Security Forces (MP) member, and it was posted last month on USFK forums.
Countering this kind of video are clips like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gNeVJvzf90
on youtube that depict someone who appears to be foreign citizen making a tremendous contribution to Korean society, in this instance in the field of music.
a bunch of drunken foreigners acting like idiots? Where’s the story here? I see this all the time, and most of the time, it’s Koreans acting like idiots, since naturally, by sheer numbers there are more Koreans than foreigners here. Did they walk into a university and start blowing away students? No– they sang a dirty song and were stupid enough to tape it and then get caught by posting it on Youtube. Does that make every foreigner in Korea an inconsiderate, loud obnoxious jerk? Did VT make every Korean-American an anti-social psychopath? If anything, now that the authorities have proof, they should be charged with disturbing the peace and punished accordingly. Should they be deported? For what? So Koreans can reinforce to the rest of the world that in fact that they are raciest xenophobes. Just because these boys (and boys will be boys) have no common sense, does that mean we have to give up our own common sense and revert to fear mongering? Move along now, there’s nothing to see here.
I’m with Globalvillageidiot. Koreans should take a good long look in the mirror at how they treat each other before they condemn all foreigners as being brutes. I see dogs get treated better then women here, and they eat the dogs…
Everyday, my wife thanks me for being a foreigner because if she had married a Korean man, she would be a slave to her mother-in-law, let alone her husband, whereas I encourage her to follow her dreams and celebrate her individuality. When she sees shit like this, she’s upset at their stupidity because it makes it rough on her. She’s a Korean and here she is worried about what other Koreans are going to do to her.
Damn, there are two of us then. One more and we have a crowd.
one more and you have a gang.
What morons. I’m glad this became news. Because now, perhaps these idiots will actually see how dumb they look and change their ways. If they still can’t figure it out, I hope one of their friends, co-workers, relatives who happens to see this on the news talk some sense into these guys.
#57
“So Koreans can reinforce to the rest of the world that in fact that they are raciest xenophobes. Just because these boys (and boys will be boys) have no common sense, does that mean we have to give up our own common sense and revert to fear mongering?”
“Koreans should take a good long look in the mirror at how they treat each other before they condemn all foreigners as being brutes. I see dogs get treated better then women here, and they eat the dogs…”
“Everyday, my wife thanks me for being a foreigner because if she had married a Korean man, she would be a slave to her mother-in-law, let alone her husband, whereas I encourage her to follow her dreams and celebrate her individuality.”
The news report was about those who behaved in bad manners and posted their filmed conducts on Youtube, and you ended up bashing Koreans with a brilliant reasoning. If South Koreans will believe that your comment reflects what “foreigners” have in their minds, their so-called prejudice about “foreigners” will be different.
this is a recurring theme.
Koreans are whack.
But, I, the non Korean came to Korea, and rescued this Korean girl, and she’s an enlightened Korean.
By the way, I, in no way seek to live in Korea permanently. I’m just staying for a while. Then, I’m rescueing my Korean wife out of Korea to my country of origin. A better country. There, she will finally get to pursue everything she wanted to do.
Isn’t that the gist of it?
Yawn.
Thank God for craigslist and the word “fucktard”, which is perfectly appropriate for these stupid bastards.
I would kick the shit out of them myself if I were in physical proximity. Given that I’m not, I shall wait for them to return to the U.S. and hope that they turn up in the CA one day, bragging of their fucktard exploits. They won’t know what hit them until the next day when they wake up at daybreak with blood running out of their 9 orifices.
I will indeed fuck them up if presented with the opportunity. It will be a public service.
@ 63
I am not sure which is more pathetic…the actions of those in the video or an Internet tough guy.
I was going to say something about kpmsprtd’s mother being is a cheap whore that spawned a little fag that couldn’t prevent a good twaddle from a manly poof, but that would be too easy to say anonymously on the Internet so I won’t.
Re #64 and #65,
Ah, encouragement…
For myself, I get confused about what is a bonafide makkoli flashback versus an Internet discussion list fantasy. In reality, I wish I could have been on the same subway car with these fucktards, and we could have let the best (or worst) man win.
I think Robert has overreacted along with the netizens. Sure, they didn’t exemplify upstanding behavior but I saw no illegal acts. If Robert would like to get access to my video of a Korean Hagwon Director entering my home illegally(he hired a locksmith) after he fired me illegally, assaulting me in my home(kicking me and pulling on my arm in an attempt to drag me out), falsely imprisoning me, stalking me, spitting on me, singing Fucking U.S.A., taking my luggage outside, possibly driving illegally(depending on how long he lost his drivers license after a DUI)he can contact me. All of the above is on tape. I will need to get help from someone preferably in the Yongsan/Itaewon area to make a file on a newer laptop with a DV connection/Microsoft XP/Moviemaker, and then download onto a CD for a criminal court complaint.
why is thuggery always promoted as a solution?
no one likes to be the moron and most people when this is pointed out to them either snap out of it or go somewhere private to be a boob.
if any more respectful expat had been on the subway and said a few calm words to them they would have been a lot wiser and maybe no one would have ever seen these videos (but once digital media like this is created, it is difficult to keep it off the net).
instead, most people here want to be the bigger asshole in the equation … stating publicly how different the situation would be if they were there to “fuck them up” (as kpmsprtd says).
remarks like these are disturbingly similar to those of netizens who spew racist commentary at Naver for ego and sport.
the quintessential colonialist conviction:
‘i saved my Korean woman for this backwater hole where she had no future and now she does because she chose me, the superior expat’.
… and she thanks me every day. bullocks.
people who think and act (and write) like this are on the level of say “a bunch of foreigners who decided to make a drunken scene in a Seoul subway … that included singing a song that degraded Korean (and Japanese) women. And then posting a video of their adventure on Youtube.”
“the quintessential colonialist conviction:
‘i saved my Korean woman for this backwater hole where she had no future and now she does because she chose me, the superior expat’. ”
I don’t necessarily agree with him, but you’re so twisting his words.
Can anyone come up with another country where this event would even be considered “news?” If Paris Hilton was involved maybe… but not when Larry, Moe and Curly are the stars.
What is next? MBC News live relays with foreigners that don’t like Kimchi. I might think twice about my reply when asked whether I like Kimchi next time. Never know when one of Korea’s “journalists” may pop out of the scrub.
SomeguyinKorea:
i’m not twisting French Quarter’s words, nor was i quoting him specifically. but i find his words objectionable.
i made a paraphrase on along an ilk which i have encountered before and vehemently disagree with.
Michael at the “Metropolitician” has a very important point, regarding the undue attention paid to this unfortunate incident. YTN has simply sought to use this incident for their own purposes and in a socially unjust manner. Idiots on Youtube.com is not news nowadays but a major news source, using this rare incident to perhaps improve their site hits, as well as God only knows what other agenda, is not professional or socially responsible news reporting.
I have have noted more than a few such attempts from Korean media to insert the meme that Koreans are better off dealing with their own people. Such actions only serve the wrong kind of people who would run this country into ground for their own gain.
#71
Careb, that’s not me who said that.
Koreans may not like these types of events, but they need to brace themselves for more to come. We all know the “you are not a part of our club” attitude that Koreans project alienates many foreigners and doesn’t encourage mutual respect. I agree if you are willing to stay long enough you can develop your own place in this society. Most foreigners are short term (at least by Korean standards) though, so they won’t ever reach that point.
Largely, I think Koreans have been fortunate that foreigners have given this society the privacy it seeks. When you consider the technology that is available there could be a lot more debuting on YouTube to the dissatisfaction of Koreans. My prediction is that things will be heading this direction. If foreigners currently went around sticking their cell phone camera wherever they please (like Koreans) this would already be the case. Other than empathy for Koreans, I can’t imagine why foreigners in Korea don’t already do this. As Koreans continue to portray foreigners collectively in a bad light though, this empathy will fade. If Koreans are unhappy with this video, they may want to consider what can potentially hit the YouTube big screen next.
I’d like to read what Michael Hurt says, but I haven’t been able to access his site for the last few days. Anybody else had this problem, or is it just me?
It’s kind of interesting that the Korean media spun this as a “foreigners misbehaving” story, rather than an “American soldiers making trouble” story. Strange that soldiers would just be described as foreigners. Perhaps an indication that anti-Americanism is on the wane, but more Koreans are feeling threatened by increasing numbers of foreign immigrants?
If this were just another anti-US military story, the rest of us “house niggas” would have nothing to worry about. Interesting twist by the media.
WJK, #62:
WJK, do not get me wrong, I like many things you right and do not intend to bash your post. But
“But, I, the non Korean came to Korea, and rescued this Korean girl, and she’s an enlightened Korean.”
Isn’t it so in many cases ?
My (later) wife lived with her very traditional parents, her brothers and her sisters in rural Chungcheong-buk-do. Cities like Seoul or Busan were well out of her reach, and she lacked the funds necessary to go to university. I was in a position to provide her with a College education in the ROK during the time when we both stayed there – with the option of attending Medical School (which she presently attends)upon our return to Germany. I understand full well that this constellation vastly contributed to her decision to marry me.
So what ? We are happy together. In Korea she was clearly not happy.
Why is it that some people have such a problem with the white guy “rescuing” the Asian women scenario? Not possible? Or just don’t want to admit there are Korean women out there that feel that way?
I have absolutely no interest in Korean women and even less of an interest in “rescuing” one. However, seems like there are plenty of Korean men “rescuing” other Asian women from poverty in countries like Vietnam. They sure aren’t coming here because they have dreamed of marrying a 70 year old (who says he is 40 on the contract) Korean man since they were a little girl.
If it is possible Korean men are “rescuing” these women from poverty, why is it not possible some Korean women feel western men are “rescuing” them from an unjust life in an oppressive patriarchal society?
#76 – I wonder if that angle is deliberate, or whether it’s due to YTN’s “crack” “investigative” “reporters” not having caught wind of the hooligans’ USFK affiliation?
#78
If there is a Korean guy who thinks that he “rescues” a Vietnamese girl from her society by marrying her, then he is a jerk.
@78:
If there is any “rescuing” going on, the salvation is mutual. Asian women are rescuing unappealing men from lonely bachelorhood and a termination of the bloodline.
I agree w. Sonagi, more often than not it’s actually the women, who are rescuing unappealing men, whether they’re from Korea or the West.
“If there is any “rescuing” going on, the salvation is mutual. Asian women are rescuing unappealing men from lonely bachelorhood and a termination of the bloodline.”
In many cases I can also agree with this. The man is using the women for her looks and the woman is using the man for his money. They are adults though and if that is their definition of happiness they are entitled to it.
#81 – Unfortunately, in many cases it’s the men’s income and occupation (i.e., agriculture) that’s unappealing. Korean women don’t seem to be interested in marrying farmers, and the male/female ratio being what it is, they can afford to hold out.
I agree the YTN shouldn’t have made this into news. And I agree it wasn’t fair to stereotype all white wayguks as drunk,rude, and racists.
I just only hope everyone remembers this the next time the Korean news run stories about “Ugly Koreans” in South East Asia. You know, those news that keeps popping up once every often? You know those stories where Naver, Chosun, KBS, MBC, etc, that run stories about Koreans going abroad and being racist, arrogant, condesending, and ignorant toward the people of the host countries? Those stories that confirms the generalizations that all Koreans are no good drunken, racist ignorant trash? Remember?
Generalizations against Koreans based on those news stories are OK, but god forbid if YTN throws the curve and runs the “Ugly Wayguk” story, suddenly the snickers (about Korean behavior) are replaced with righteousness that Koreans shouldn’t generalize.
For instance, what would be the reaction be here today if a bunch of drunken Koreans were caught on camera harassing/making fun of/verbally attacking Filipino people on a subway car full of Filipinos in the Philippines, and it was plastered all over the Korean news? I don’t think I have to guess what kind of Korea 100+ post bashing fest that will entail.
I realize my comments may be the pot calling the kettle black, but after a certain amount of exposure and harassment towards both myself and my wife it’s hard not to think in stereotypes. When in Rome, do as the Romans, as I so often hear here. This is Korea, you must do as the Koreans. And the Romans are elitist. The younger generation of Koreans may see it as it is, a bunch of idiots being idiotic. The older Koreans will frown and shake their fists at us. That kind of thinking may never change, but just once, rather than attack foreigners in sensationalist media, I wish they would take a look at their own society and try to change that too, instead of hiding their heads in the sand. Western society is no better in many ways, but my society of origin doesn’t tend to make national news about a bunch of hooligans on the subway.
Maybe I’m a fat, ugly, alcoholic, loser who would otherwise be flipping burgers, and I’m being rescued by a pretty, sweet, little Asian girl. May be I’m not a loser and I’m rescuing her from an oppressive patriarchal society, who cares? because we sure don’t care what everybody else thinks, we’re just living our lives. Now we have to deal with this incident because of the way Koreans tend to think of foreigners (distrustful) and the antics of a bunch of losers who just happen to be foreigners.
When in Rome, do as the Romans, as I so often hear here. This is Korea, you must do as the Koreans.
I always thought it was, When in Rome, do as many Romans as you can. And: This is Korea, you must do Koreans.
No problem with that here.
“but just once, rather than attack foreigners in sensationalist media, I wish they would take a look at their own society and try to change that too, instead of hiding their heads in the sand.”
I’m not trying to criticize you but this part just isn’t true. There have been numerous articles about Ugly Koreans overseas acting just like those guys. I don’t know if you read Korean or not.
if you’re happy and you know it, that’s all that matters. I didn’t mean anything negative by #62. I just thought it was ironically paternalistic.
I’d like to comment on this,
is South Korea really a welcome sex tourist destination for non-Koreans?
negating the military bases?
I thought it was more like Brazil, Thailand, or the Netherlands, where the locals didn’t care who you were, as long as you paid to engage in sex tourism.
wouldn’t you say that local Koreans are rather hostile towards foreign men looking for Korean women and that Korean women sometimes refuse foreign sex tourists, based on this mythical idea that foreigners can pass aids while Korean men can’t?
hmm.
“I just only hope everyone remembers this the next time the Korean news run stories about “Ugly Koreans” in South East Asia.”
I agree that the Korean media has been running more stories about “Ugly Koreans” in the last couple of years to my surprise. Maybe the real issue here is the fact that it is time for the Korean media to grow up and stop trying to pass off garbage as “news.”
Also, when the Korean people believe these stories on “Ugly Koreans” are an unfair representation of them they have considerable power to influence the media. Let’s be honest, it wouln’t be Korea if there wasn’t the daily protest to shut down entire sections of the city and inconvenience other citizens. Those of us in the foreign population (supposedly “guests” in Korea) on the other hand have one choice…take the abuse with a smile on our faces.
“Korean media to grow up and stop trying to pass off garbage as “news.” ”
Korean media puts a premium on internet chat rooms. They report on issues that are hot amongst the netizens. That’s how the main stream news picked up this news. They picked it up from the internet chat. Remember the ‘dog poop girl’ hysteria? Same thing. Masses of internet users discuss a hot issue. The main stream media looks into what the fuss is about. Finds the story interesting enough to attract viewers and readership. Reports the issue verbatim.
“#81 – Unfortunately, in many cases it’s the men’s income and occupation (i.e., agriculture) that’s unappealing. Korean women don’t seem to be interested in marrying farmers, and the male/female ratio being what it is, they can afford to hold out.”
I’ve met a few very nice men who married a South East Asian for the reasons that you mention. But, living in the country, I also know that some farmers can’t get a Korean woman to marry them because they have a serious drinking problem.
“Korean media puts a premium on internet chat rooms. They report on issues that are hot amongst the netizens”.
We all know the net crazies won’t be maturing anytime soon so it is up to the media to quit trolling the Internet for salacious gossip to try and pass off as news. A good place to start would be to get off their duffs and find some real people to quote instead of make believe “net citizens” all the time.
#92 – I’m sure that’s true, and my original statement in #81 was probably too general. I should have thrown in “Many” before “Korean women don’t…”
‘Everyday, my wife thanks me for being a foreigner because if she had married a Korean man, she would be a slave to her mother-in-law, let alone her husband, whereas I encourage her to follow her dreams and celebrate her individuality.’
while it’s possible that you may have rescued your wife from korea, it’s also possible that korea rescued you from you.
no mr kim, no korean lady to rescue.
see?
Some Koreans have encouraged to fellow Koreans to pretend to be Japanese when caught by having behaved wrong. Some Koreans have boasted that they took foreigners for a ride into Japanese.
Passive bystanders like me or other Koreans just laughed at all these instead of protesting.
I think it’s fair payment to what Koreans did.
“So making fun of the majority (Whites) race in the country would be less relevant.”
Why not just admit you made a mistake?
Re careb’s #68,
You’re onto something very big here: The distinction between what people say and how they say it in Internet postings versus what people do and how they do it in real life.
In real life, I’m actually rather mild. As a former punk, now turned old guy, I am quite willing to help out the current generation of punks. Had I been on the subway, I would indeed have tried a “few calm words”, and that probably would have done the trick. In fact, I did something like that on my last trip to Korea with an alcohol-breathed young man on the bus from the airport into town.
Why do I write like I do on the Internet? That’s a good question. I don’t think it’s for ego (would I even know it if it were?), but it may indeed be partly for sport. And I might not be alone in that. The netizens on Naver? I suspect that many of them are radically different in reality than what they’re postings indicate them to be like.
I will step out on a limb here and suggest that what I and many others write on the Internet is a somewhat exaggerated version of reality. Please interpret accordingly when reading my posts, especially if it’s one that includes the word “fucktard.”
careb’s #68:
“instead, most people here want to be the bigger asshole in the equation … stating publicly how different the situation would be if they were there to “fuck them up” (as kpmsprtd says).
remarks like these are disturbingly similar to those of netizens who spew racist commentary at Naver for ego and sport.”
Some guys sang an offensive song on the subway? SFW? I’m with Metropolitician, this is non-news.
Metropolitician: “So basically, foreigners act a fool on the subway and tape it and upload it; it’s found out after the fact, not in some altercation in which the police are even called; it’s put up on the news with the subtext that ‘this is how foreigners are acting in our country.’”
I didn’t bother reading any comments here–don’t even know why I’m bothering to comment except to say this is a big non-event and with all due respect Mr. Marmot doesn’t merit the outrage your post title suggests.
@ #78
I’m not sure if I should be insulted by that comment (which I am) or if I should pity you.
Even if it is “true,” and both you and her feel that way, it is pathetic to read that one person’s background is seen or accepted to be superior to another’s. I thought marriage was more than that. Oops, I mean, I thought “love” was more than that.
Jodi, calm down and do not worry about the state of OUR marriage. My wife’s happy about the way things are and we do not care whether other people disagree with OUR concept of love.
I cannot see why you feel my comment had anything to do with YOU.
I was specifically addressing WJK, and I did this in a very gentle manner, as WJK is a quite likeable commenter who contributes many good ideas.
“one person’s background is seen or accepted to be superior to another’s”
Superior background ?
As I wrote once on YOUR own blog (The Asia Pages), I am probably the son of a Gypsy prostitute.
@82:
“If there is any “rescuing” going on, the salvation is mutual. Asian women are rescuing unappealing men from lonely bachelorhood and a termination of the bloodline.”
Sonagi:
Maybe YOU find Indian-looking men unappealing, but there are people who think differently…
Fantasy, if you truly thought your background was not superior to your wife’s, there would be no “saving” involved and I don’t really care what your background is, it are your words I am reacting to and the attitude associated with your words.
And I am insulted by your comment because it is very reflective of a certain “white knight” savior theme which society has used in the past to describe relationships involving Asian women with non-Asian men in paritcular and in case you forgot, I fall into one of those “categories”. I find it quite disgusting that a husband of any race/culture feels he “resuced” his wife from her background. And the fact that you seem to think there is any sort of “saving” involved is truly pathetic.
I agree with WJK…such an attitude bothers me. On another note, since when did you have to address ME in order for me to comment on something you said in a public forum? Did I break a blog commenting rule or something???
If so excuse me.
Fair enough. Personally, I find it the asshats’ racism to be highly problematic (and, frankly, indicative of attitudes from certain quarters of the expat community/USFK), and with due respect, I have to agree with cm in #86: if this had been a story about a bunch of Korean ajeossi uploading images of themselves engaging in the same sort of behavior in the Philippines, the tenor of this comment thread would be very, very different.
jodi,
I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure that Phileas Fogg saved Aouda from her background.
Well, Jodi, look at it this way:
Many years ago my adoptive parents “rescued” me from a Romanian orphanage – and I am grateful to them for doing this. On the other hand, while my adoptive parents undoubtedly “rescued” me, I nevertheless never got on well with my adoptive mother. That’s why I left at age 20, after my adoptive father’s passing, never to return home again. Still, the adoption had afforded me with many advantages I would not want to miss: A stable home, a good high school education, an international perspective etc.
Still, at age 20, I felt very much on my own and would have wished to have someone around who could have “rescued” me again. But, much to my chagrin, no white knight (m/f) showed up. So I had to make a living as a (definitely not very well paid) freelance translator in France, translating from French into English and German.
Finally, at age 25, I was “rescued” by a (British) scholarship which made it possible for me to attend one of the best universities in the UK (and later another one in Canada).
I like being “rescued”. And I like “rescuing” other people (but my ability to do this is, of course, rather limited due to a lack of funds).
And please do not worry about my wife. She’s fine. She’s doing well in her course. She’s got many good friends here in Germany. She keeps asking me to spend more time with her instead of writing useless comments in the K-blogosphere. Maybe I should follow her advice…
I wish you as much luck with your own relations as I have with my marriage.
“if you truly thought your background was not superior to your wife’s, there would be no “saving” involved”
Jodi:
yes, it is true that, at this specific point of time, I was indeed in a financially better position than her – this had not been so before, and I doubt whether this will be so in the future:
Upon her qualification as a doctor my wife is likely to have excellent professional opportunities, probably much better ones than my own. She might, of course, seize the opportunity and walk out on me.
I am quite confident she will refrain from doing this. You know, we have not quarreled one single time during the more than seven years of our married life. We are simply not a quarrelsome couple…
Whereas my adoptive mother…yuk, looking back sends a shudder down my spine.
I’m sorry for taking this off topic…but the choice of words and the attitude surrounding the whole idea of you “rescuing” your wife is still a little insulting, Fantasy. I mean, she CHOSE to marry you right? All I’m saying is you seem to give yourself a whole lot of credit for her current state of being and by doing so, it’s like saying she was a victim of her own culture from which you saved her and I find that to be an offensive attitude to have in this context. Unless you’re openly admitting that she married you not out of love but out of exploitation for what you could offer her (and I don’t think you’re saying that), you really have a disgusting sense of your high and mighty self in terms of your marriage and what it did for her.
While I can’t talk for myself, such sentiment may be potentially insulting to others who have married Korean women (in this case) out of genuine love and not as charity cases.
As for your adoption, you did not choose to be adopted by your parents and it very well could be stated that they “saved” you. But maybe your adoptive parents were different from my own because my adoption certainly was not a charity case adoption. I was not adopted because my parents pitied me and I’m so glad of that. I would like to think that whenever I do marry, my husband would never view our marriage as a way for him to save me from anything much less where I came from…
Anyway, I’m sure your “Asian/Korean wife” appreciates all you have done for her by saving her from her horrible Korean background but despite whatever shortcomings living in Korea may present for women (and yes I acknowledge there are some), I find it incredibly amazing and very cool how many foreign men I have come across who have rather chosen to live in Korea with their Korean wives instead of whisking them away from Korea in protection. (And I am not saying those who do live overseas are doing anything wrong. I’m just wondering why this sense attitude of saving one’s wife from her Korean background exists at all because it seems unfortunate, even if both a foreign husband and his Korean wife feel this is an accurate way to describe it.)
Fantasy, you didn’t say you rescued her because you were more financially well off. You specifically targeted aspects of her Korean culture/soceity from which you saved her from in your original sentence.
Anyway, I’m done with my rant. Thanks for reading.
“she was a victim of her own culture from which you saved her”
Jodi:
Nowhere did I refer to Korean culture as such – please re-read my comment #78. I think you attribute the quotes of WJK’s ironic contributions to me as my own opinion.
My wife was not a victim of anything, but the specific circumstances in her family in rural Chungcheong-buk-do did not exactly provide her with opportunities for a head start into life – no more, no less have I been saying.
“I find it incredibly amazing and very cool how many foreign men I have come across who have rather chosen to live in Korea with their Korean wives instead of whisking them away from Korea in protection.”
I lived with my wife in Korea as from 2000 thru 2004, but, upon her graduation from Chungbuk National University (majoring in Chemistry) she was unable to get into the Medical Course she wanted to attend. Therefore, after initial hesitation, we reluctantly decided to move to a foreign country (Germany) which was, in a way, my own, but which I had left a full 30 (!) years earlier back in 1974. In Germany it is very easy for non-EU foreigners to get into Medical School, as there is a large quota of places set aside specifically for them. There is, however, the requirement of fluency in the German language. Only a small minority of applicants succeed in passing the language test required for admission, my wife among them, due to the fact that during our time in Korea I had arranged for private tuition by a qualified teacher of German for her.
Once these non-EU foreigners are admitted into German universities, education is free for them, luckily for my wife, as well. This would change as soon as she acquired German citizenship, and therefore I strongly advised her to refrain from doing so.
During the 19 years of my stay with my adoptive parents, I have come to realise that harmony in married life is very, very important, because harmony was exactly what my parents’ marriage was lacking. I may be biased in making this judgment, but IMHO this was mostly due to my mother’s rude, impatient and quarrelsome nature and to her tendency to publicly humiliate my father – and this in spite of the fact that it was him who was the breadwinner of the family.
So, the obvious conclusion for me was to never even consider marrying a woman in whose character I could see even the remote possibility of her turning out like this.
“you really have a disgusting sense of your high and mighty self in terms of your marriage and what it did for her”
I do not really have a sense of my high and mighty self, but it is simply a fact that my wife would never have been able to enter university anywhere at all without my enabling her to do so. I am convinced, however, that she, being the gentle, peaceful and largely self-sufficient person that she is, would have been able to lead just as happy a life in a different manner without me ever appearing on the scene.
Nevermind, things turned out the way they did. I am really pleased with this development. And so is my lovely wife. Or so she says…
“I’m just wondering why this attitude of saving one’s wife from her Korean background exists at all…”
Maybe it exists because in some countries, the ROK among them, options are somewhat limited for people with certain backgrounds.
A small farmer’s daughter in the US or Canada may well be able to climb the social ladder; for a small farmer’s daughter in Germany the way up is considerably harder; for a small farmer’s daughter in Korea upward mobility is well-nigh impossible. Or so it seems to me.
I know full well that this unequal distribution of life chances is intrinsically unfair, but such is life – please do not shoot the messenger…
Hate to sound paranoid, but I think I’ve been blocked by about half the internet providers in Korea – many of my readers have been finding that they can no longer log in from work or from certain universities. But I work at others.
I truly don’t know what’s going on, but I guess I pissed off somebody, somewhere.
I’m posting away, but depending on where you’re coming in from, you may or may not be able to get in.
Most workplaces or universities can’t access my site anymore. Yet, here I am on Hanaro Telecom, plugging away.
If anyone knows how I might be able to find out what’s going on, I’m all ears.
Marmot–thanks for the reply. I guess where we differ is that I think this is an isolated act of asshatness and while I know what you’re point is, the ajossi in the PI are never going to upload videos of themselves screwing hookers and underage girls/boys, which is the “bad behavior” they’re reportedly up to overseas and is far worse than singing dumb songs on the subway.
But anyway, don’t stop posting stuff like this
Metro, you might want to ask Gerry Bevers about incidents symptomatic to the early stages of getting shit-canned.
Metro:
“Hate to sound paranoid, but I think I’ve been blocked by about half the internet providers in Korea…I guess I pissed off somebody, somewhere.”
Yeah…right…sure… Maybe Ban Ki Moon reads your blog too, heh, heh…. More megalomania from expats in Korea.
#117 – a-letheia,
If Scribblings has been blocked by certain ISPs or companies, it wouldn’t be the first expat blog to receive that treatment. For instance, Occidentalism is inaccessible via the corporate network at the chaebol where I work. The megalomania accusation—not to say the generally snarky and dismissive tone of the whole post—may have been just a tad precipitous.
Metro,
I’ll try to remember to check your blog at work tomorrow at the aforementioned chaebol. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Back at comment #76, I mentioned I couldn’t access the metropolitician’s site. At the time I thought it was just that one site, but after I learned I couldn’t access http://partypooper.blogs.com/ I realised it may have be ALL blogs.com sites. I changed my internet company last week, so I called the company to sort it out. Details of what happened are here:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/kore.....highlight=
I think the Metropolitician may be onto something. Although everything is working now, in hindsight its bizarre that I could access pornsites or anything else, just not blogs.com ones. Why would there be a technical bug just for those?
Correction:
I’ve just realised that, in my comment #78 (which some apparently found offensive although it was not meant to offend anyone), I did indeed make a serious mistake. There is a really stupid typo in the first sentence. It should, of course, have read:
“WJK, do not get me wrong, I like many things you write and do not intend to bash your post.”
My apologies for the blunder.
Not that I believe that those who didn’t like my post before will like it any better now…
Hi Marmot,
I wrote up at #36 “Message from the Marmot: Pls be “good niggers. I’m trying to get from the porch to the livingroom, here.”
Ok, on rereading, that was so uncalled for and I’m ashamed to have said that. Sorry. Sorry again, by way of pathetic excuse it was a post-business-soju-party posting and I rattled that BS off. That was about a kilometer over the line, shit I don’t even really think that about you, I was just fuelled on S and being a dick.
Will really try to keep it civil in future.
Nice try at being ironic, Hugh !
#118-#119
You guys are delusional.
It’s summertime. Take a vacation.
#113
“A small farmer’s daughter in the US or Canada may well be able to climb the social ladder; for a small farmer’s daughter in Germany the way up is considerably harder; for a small farmer’s daughter in Korea upward mobility is well-nigh impossible. Or so it seems to me.”
Huh? I do believe you should update your picture which your drew Korean Society from your wife’s experiences.
JiMong:
It may have become a little bit easier by now in Korea to climb the ladder, but I very much doubt whether there is now suddenly a plethora of possibilities for upward mobility.
Why is there so much prostitution in the ROK ? The women do not do it for fun – they are poor, man, they are dirt poor.
Now, so as to avoid misunderstandings, I want to clarify that I’m not saying that poverty automatically leads to prostitution. I am merely saying that a high incidence of prostitution is usually indicative for a lack of upward mobility perspectives for females…
BTW, things are not much better in my home country of Germany . Sociological studies show that those raised by poor and uneducated parents (natural or adoptive) are, in their vast majority, going to end up poor and uneducated. There are exceptions, of course, but these are few and far between.
And, what is even more worrying, the gap between the “establishment” and the “underclass” (official German government terminology) seems to widen year by year…
I know that things are somewhat better in the US and in Canada, which is one of the reasons why I like these countries better than Germany…
A whole lot of German women in the countryside areas around the US bases are constantly on the prowl for GIs, so as to be able to escape from the poverty and the lack of perspectives they are faced with here.
And who am I to blame them ?
And what are the underclass me doing ? They are drowning their frustrations in huge quantities of alcohol.
I meant “What are the underclass men doing ?”
My final comment on the matter:
In the early 1960, well before my birth in 1965, a Hong Kong movie hit the screens, telling a (very chaste) love story between a British man and a Chinese lady during the time of the Japanese occupation of HK. There was, according to the standards of the time, no happy ending – the war forced the lovers apart.
The movie was titled “Love is a many-splendoured thing.”
Finally this movie also hit the screens in Germany, of course in a dubbed version. The title had been translated incorrectly, yet quite aptly, into something in the following vein “Love means different thing to different people.”
Very succinct, isn’t it ?
#86 CM, “I agree the YTN shouldn’t have made this into news. And I agree it wasn’t fair to stereotype all white wayguks as drunk,rude, and racists.”
Most people aren’t dumb enough to belive the idiots don’t represent “all white wayguks”.
IMKO(in my korean opinion),even if this stupidity was done by Koreans it would still be news.
#92 “Korean media to grow up and stop trying to pass off garbage as “news.”
I currently reside in Toronto, and I could see this kind would be on local news for sure. Korea is relatively small and anything like this can be on national television.
“Korea is relatively small…”
Korea is 1.5 times the size of Canada (regarding the size of the population – and that’s what matters).
Ok, Fantasy, I will have to correct it to “small land-mass and high population density”. Anyway, this seems to be as important issue to Koreans as “Paris Hilton going to jail” to Americans.
#130
Paris Hilton is a celebrity.
These people are random unknown white guys. Perhaps I should go to Korea, I can be as famous as Paris Hilton too!
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