Has your hagwon been invaded by South Africans?
Yonhap News (Korean) reports that the number of South Africans coming to Korea to teach conversational English is skyrocketing — last year, 192 South Africans received visas to teach English, but this year, some 226 have gotten visas.
And that was only as of June.
The Korean Embassy in South Africa said this phenomenon was due to Korean schools increasing their number of native speakers.
Yonhap said the influx of South Africans may also be the result of white South Africans seeking employment abroad because they were disadvantaged by Pretoria’s affirmative action policies.
Most South African teachers in Korea are, no surprise, white.
One South African teacher told Yonhap that white college graduates have no problems getting jobs in the corporate sector back home, although it was virtually impossible to become a government official. Nevertheless, he said, many young white South Africans were heading abroad since they were pessimistic about their long-term future.
He also said South Africa’s high crime rate was also a factor behind the country’s white flight.
(HT to reader)
69 Comments
“The Korean Embassy in South Africa said this phenomenon was due to Korean schools increasing their number of native speakers.”
When someone from the planet fucking Earth was asked to comment they said,
“This phenomenon is due to the fact that Koreans’ reputation for screwing over anyone and everyone who comes here to instruct English has finally caught up with them.”
I think it also might have to do with Taiwan, the former place of choice for Saffers to teach refusing to recognise a degrees from certain South African Unis. This was in retaliation for something the Unis had done to Taiwanese students. At least this is what I heard from a Yarpie mate who was there and is now here.
In the 1990s it was a Canadian invasion. Now, however, with the Canadian dollar at 30 year highs and unemployment at 30 year lows, there aren’t many people here willing to take the risk of going to Korea.
Gotta get your white trash somewhere, right? Even then, the number of South Africans (226!) is insignificant.
I’m South African, and certainly, I’m meeting more of my people here than I did 6 years ago, but we’re really still a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people from other English-speaking countries. What is interesting to me is a) the Korean government only recently started including South Africa in the list of nationalities it would consider when it advertised government school jobs, and b) an increasing number of S.A. teachers aren’t white. Another cause of the ‘flood’? Qualified teachers can save more here in a month than they earn back home…
Pelosi should DO something; they’re taking American jobs!
Just kidding.
226 South African whites is a significant number. This does not bode well for the South African economy. Every African nation that lost its white population had its economy go into a tailspin.
Yes, all African countries were overflowing with milk and honey when white men still ran the show …
“Yonhap said the influx of South Africans may also be the result of white South Africans seeking employment abroad because they were disadvantaged by Pretoria’s affirmative action policies.”
Why does Yonhap have to make it a race thing?
Based on what I was told by the many South Africans I’ve met here,and some were not white, Yonhap missed the boat on that one.
Someguy, Yonhap makes it a “race thing” because Korea does that. How many non-white S.A.s have you met here? I’m curious.
I’m curious to what degree, if any they make a distinctions of what a native speaker is. Do Korean schools actually ask the SA’s if they’re native English or Afrikaans speaking? Do they care? Do they ask Quebecers for evidence of native ability. Are they that sophisticated?
Michael: I’ve made three South African friends and they are all black.
Spike: apparently they don’t ask about their mother tongue, because two of my friends spoke Afrikaans before English.
I’ve also wondered about our friends from ‘La Belle Province’ finding work teaching English in Korea. I surprise many Korean people, however, by telling them that a sizeable chunk of the population of Canada does NOT speak English on a daily basis.
In a population of 48 million, you’d think so. But when it comes to pouring ink in the Han River, even one drop is enough for good-minded Koreans to fret over.
They certainly weren’t overflowing with plastic garbage bags full of shit.
How’s the indoor plumbing in London?
sumo294 is not totally off in his comment.
Unfortunately, history has proven it true, regarding the economy.
who to blame?
sure, life was pretty much equal to slavery when the whites had everything and the blacks had none.
but was it really right to directly or indirectly force the whites to perform their world famous pattern of white flight, thereby robbing the country of people who actually had experience in the matter and replacing them with people who lacked the experience to run it instead of them?
in 10 years, thanks to white flight and south african govt mistakes, there will be no white people to be found in south africa. You’ll find them as new citizens of USA, Canada, a lot of EU countries, Australia, etc.
Which makes me wonder why they’re all taking nests in places where people are white?
Well, it wouldn’t be white flight if they weren’t.
i don’t think yonhap missed the boat.
white flight from south africa, zimbabwe, etc is a fact !
Numbers don’t lie.
it’s just a dirty truth that no one likes to talk about.
“I surprise many Korean people, however, by telling them that a sizeable chunk of the population of Canada does NOT speak English on a daily basis.”
In my experience, most people in Korea know about Canada’s two official languages. Quite a few also know about Quebec (thanks in part to the 1976 Olympics), so I wonder why you’d get that reaction.
In any case, I doubt they were as surprised as when I inform someone that although I speak French fluently, I am not a Quebecer.
“How many non-white S.A.s have you met here? ”
Met? Quite a few when you consider the small number of South Africans in Korea…about half a dozen, mostly of Indian and Malaysian descent.
…which is more than I ever met in Canada.
One South African visa applicant - one, out of the hundreds working here or who will work here soon - said that ‘white college graduates have no problems getting jobs in the corporate sector back home, although it was virtually impossible to become a government official’.
Yet even this person notes that there is generally no trouble in getting a good job - only in becoming a government official.
So how does that translate into an influx of hagwon teachers? It’s hard to believe that South African whites are bypassing good private-sector jobs and a life at home with their friends and family simply because they aren’t able to get on with some ministry.
In the end, this is just one person’s story, and a bit of an odd one at that. A general condition it ain’t.
I wonder if hagwon owners still try to force South Africans to say that they are from Australia if the parents ask them. Back in ‘99, the hagwon I worked at was trying to hire a guy from Durban, and the director wanted me to tell him that he had to claim to be Australian. Naturally, I declined to pass on such a ludicrous requirement. Ultimately, the guy didn’t sign, because the hagwon gave me a list of conditions to offer him and then changed them to much lower standards on his contract.
gbnhj,
My point exactly.
The world sure is changing. Whites moving to Asia as pseudo economic refugees.
I have worked with South Africans in the ESL industry here in Korea. I like their perspective and take on life, certainty differently than your average American or Canadian ESL worker. The fact that a very few aren’t native speakers doesn’t really diminish their qualification to be in a Korean classroom. On a general note, there are the qualifications that are publicly attributed to employment, and then there are the qualifications that the industry desires and needs.
Craig: according to Wikipedia, English is only the 6th most common home language in South Africa, so I’m going to guess that non-native ESL teachers number more “than a very few”.
I will agree that that probably doesn’t diminish their ability to teach English; in fact it might even help.
Been looking at South Africa a little more and it seems to be set on course to remain static at 255 billion for the next 20 years. So Nigeria will likely be the next so called superstar of Africa and Oprah will be heading there instead of South Africa. Man–so much aid money has been given, loans forgiven and food sent over and not one damn country in that big ass place is doing well. It really is TIA over there.
That’s not true, actually. No African nation has cracked into developed status yet, but that doesn’t mean they’re all shit holes. Botswana has done fairly well since independence, Kenya was OK until fairly recently, Uganda was doing very well in the post Amin/Obote era, Rwanda has managed to recover surprisingly well from the genocide, all things considered, and even Mozambique — arguably the biggest shit hole on the continent after Congo — has been experience GDP growth rates of 7-10 percent (albeit from a very low base). Heck, Tanzania — which is a very pleasant place — has a bad 2006 and still managed to post 5.9 percent growth.
Don’t get me wrong, the continent has problems (like AIDS), and some states are disasters or disasters waiting to happen (Zimbabwe, Congo, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Sudan, for starters). But it isn’t all bad news, and there’s been political and economic progress if you look for it.
And not for nothing, but a lot of that aid was going to corrupt dictators (see: Mobuto Sese Seko, Samuel Doe, Jean-Bédel Bokassa) with the intention of keeping said corrupt dictators in power, so it could be argued that in many cases, the aid actually helped bankrupt countries and destroy societies.
If I remember correctly, Botswana had the highest net rate of growth in the 90’s. Even more than China.
There are some success stories in Africa. Sadly, most of the place is still a mess.
It might be the case that the aid is actually making things worse too.
Just to let you know, I once had an E2 visa rejected on the first round because my diploma was from an english-speaking university in Quebec. (McGill)
My hometown (Belleville) also looks suspiciously “frenchy” despite being well within Ontario. A VIA rail map showing its proximity to Toronto helped…
I still picture the wizard of an immigration officer who put the halt on the visa approval getting high-fives from all his coworkers for having “nailed this one”, thereby preventing a unilingually English-speaking person with 6 years experience in Korea from getting another damned E2.
For your reference, Belleville doesn’t even have a sizable French community, but it is home to the musical comedy team “The Frere Brothers”, Jacques and Sonny Lematina, who sing odes to Belleville’s own famous food-type product, Hawkins Cheezies. Ah, Cheezies.
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And I do not think that South African native speakers of Afrikaans should be allowed to pass themselves off as native speakers of English. I’ve met a good number of them and many were not really better at English than me myself…
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“And why should there not be, if you really require a native speaker for a certain job ?”
The thing is, native-speakerdom is very difficult to define.
By most accounts, it is someone who has spoken a language since the earliest childhood. In other words, it’s possible to be a native speaker of several languages.
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Simone, SomeGuy:
Look at it the other way round:
If a native speaker of French was required in some country to teach the language to high school students there, would you be willing to give the job to a native speaker of Dutch from the Belgian city of Antwerpen or to a native speaker of German from the Swiss city of Berne, merely because there are sizeable francophone populations in these countries ?
I suppose you wouldn’t.
So, I think the Korean immigration officer did very well in making sure that Belleville was not in Québec, and they would have been absolutely right in excluding you if you had turned out to be a Québecer, unless you could really PROVE that you were raised in an anglophone family and that you attended anglophone schools…
“By most accounts, it is someone who has spoken a language since the earliest childhood. In other words, it’s possible to be a native speaker of several languages.”
I know it’s possible. I also know it only works with the linguistically gifted. They exist, but they are in the minority…
Why otherwise would the immigrant populations in Europe have such enormous language problems ?
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“According to Wikipedia, English is only the 6th most common home language in South Africa, so I’m going to guess that non-native ESL teachers number more “than a very few”.
I will agree that that probably doesn’t diminish their ability to teach English; in fact it might even help.”
McGengis:
It depends what their exact task is in the process of teaching…
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“So, I think the Korean immigration officer did very well in making sure that Belleville was not in Québec, and they would have been absolutely right in excluding you if you had turned out to be a Québecer, unless you could really PROVE that you were raised in an anglophone family and that you attended anglophone schools…”
Whatever. Based on your criteria, Leonard Cohen and Mordecai Richler wouldn’t be fit to teach English in Korea.
Oh, and I’ve never heard anyone complain about Dan Ackroyd’s ability to speak in English.
Someguy:
Do you not think that it amounts to actionable discrimination to admit a Canadian from rural Québec or a South African native speaker of Afrikaans or Xhosa into Korea as an English teacher while at the same time Fins, Swedes and Norwegians with an identical or even better ability to speak, read or write English are meticulously kept out ?
If admittance was decided by citizenship only (Canadians and South Africans okay - Fins and Swedes no way) and if I was a person of the latter category bent on teaching English in the ROK I would certainly feel unfairly discriminated against - and I guess my conviction would be upheld by the courts. It seems hard to me to find arguments justifying this kind of unequal treatment.
I will defer to his plumpness on this issue, but it is sad that the entire GDP of Africa does not equal the GDP of the state of California. One of the countries has got to kick into gear, just one!
#51
Sounds like a lot of backpedaling to me. First it was Quebecers, then it was Quebecers who grew up in an English speaking households, and now it’s Quebecers from rural areas.
Okay, fine. What about Brian Mulroney? He grew up in Baie-Comeau, which is as rural as you can get.
Sure, there are plenty of Europeans who speak English fluently (the Danes have always struck me as being excellent linguists), but that’s besides the point. You can’t pigeonhole Quebecers as being ‘French’.
Just look at the numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Quebecer
I knew a South African here years ago who was initially denied an E-2, because as the Immigration official pointed out, his native language was “African”. (Forget the fact that South Africa alone boasts more than 30 languages.) Anyway, when he argued that he was a native speaker of English, the official in question claimed that his degree suggested otherwise.
Pointing to his diploma as evidence, he declared, “Your degree is written in African.”
“Actually,” responded the South African, “That’s Latin.”
Two or three minutes of uncomfortable silence followed, and his visa was finally approved later that day.
“Do you not think that it amounts to actionable discrimination to admit a Canadian from rural Québec or a South African native speaker of Afrikaans or Xhosa into Korea as an English teacher while at the same time Fins, Swedes and Norwegians with an identical or even better ability to speak, read or write English are meticulously kept out ?”
I’m from Quebec - rural Quebec, in fact - and I can assure you that while I can speak French, I am a native speaker of English. And I have no problem with capable Scandinavians - or Dutch English speakers, for example - citizens teaching English here. Most native speakers of Afrikaans I’ve met here or elsewhere are very capable English speakers. Rumor has it that multilingualism is the norm in many places around the world…
globalvillageidiot,
‘That’s Latin.’ LOL.
I’d like to see an immigration officer try that sort of reasoning with me. I’d pull my French language degree out of his hands and slip my English language one on his desk.
Right, people who have using a language regularly since their early childhood, like French and English for me, achieve native speaker fluency as adults in those languages regardless of which is the dominant one at home. Just look at all the second-generation Canadians who that are allophones but speak English and/or French with native speaker fluency.
Heck, my son speaks three languages. By the time he becomes an adult, it will be difficult to argue that he isn’t a native speaker of any of the three.
Don’t mind the errors. I posted before proof reading.
“Heck, my son speaks three languages. By the time he becomes an adult, it will be difficult to argue that he isn’t a native speaker of any of the three.”
Exactly. I really have to get my son home in time to start the first grade. French immersion program hopefully.
“Sounds like a lot of backpedaling to me. First it was Quebecers, then it was Quebecers who grew up in an English speaking households, and now it’s Quebecers from rural areas.”
I’m not backpedaling - I am just trying to be more specific so as to avoid the sweeping generalisations, for which the K-blogosphere is so famous. I think this attitude of mine is a strength, not a weakness.
“I’m from Quebec - rural Quebec, in fact - and I can assure you that while I can speak French, I am a native speaker of English.”
Fine for you - I’ve met many Québecois / Québecoises who are not. They were fluent in English, but even I, as a non-native speaker could easily recognise the mistakes in their grammar.
And I’ve met native speakers of Afrikaans (yeah, that’s the correct term, not “African”) whose Afrikaans accent in their English was heavy, certainly heavier than my own. I would not wish them to teach English to my (not yet existing) children. If I wanted my children to learn to speak and write English with faulty grammar and with a heavy accent I could teach them myself, after all. Never mind, unlike others, I would never even try to pass myself off as a native speaker of English…
By the way, I want my children to learn French, as well, just as I’ve learned it myself (5 years in France, 1 year in Montréal). A Quebecer would be just fine for THIS job…
“And I have no problem with capable Scandinavians - or Dutch English speakers, for example - teaching English here.”
Okay, please spread the good news to the Korean authorities. You know, due to the Scandinavian affiliations of my adoptive father I’ve got a large number of relatives (genuine fans of Asian culture, with an excellent knowledge of English, acquired in their semi-anglophone Scandinavian high schools and in the course of their studies in various anglophone countries) who would love to go to Korea to teach English.
Why don’t they ?
As is easy to imagine they have no chance of getting a visa. Whereas, in your view, Quebecers and Afrikaanders should be let into the country no questions asked. That’s simply discriminatory and unjustifiable. Full stop.
“First it was Quebecers, then it was Quebecers who grew up in an English speaking households, and now it’s Quebecers from rural areas.”
And BTW, Someguy, there is a break in the logic of your enumeration. Go and look for it yourself.
“… it is sad that the entire GDP of Africa does not equal the GDP of the state of California. One of the countries has got to kick into gear, just one!”
Sumo294:
Yes, that’s certainly right, I also wish South Africa well.
But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.
“You can’t pigeonhole Quebecers as being ‘French’.”
I am far from doing this - all visa applications must be examined as to whether the applicant holds the necessary credentials for teaching English or not. For every Quebecer, South African, Dane, Nowegian, Swede, Fin, Dutch or German…
No blanket judgments - instead fair treatment for each and every individual ! No more discrimination !
Anybody here who is opposed to this ?
“I’d like to see an immigration officer try that sort of reasoning with me. I’d pull my French language degree out of his hands and slip my English language one on his desk.”
BTW, I myself also hold an English language degree (in Law, from a well-reputed British University, and an LL.M. in the course of which I had to pass various examinations set in the French language (in addition to those set in English).
Nevertheless, if I applied for an E-2 (which I have no intention of ever doing) I would be bluntly turned down by the Korean embassy staff. And while I know full well that my English is not good enough for teaching, this unmitigated refusal without any examination of the merits of the case is simply obscene…
“And I’ve met native speakers of Afrikaans (yeah, that’s the correct term, not “African”)”
Yeah, I know. I was referring to the Korean Immigration officer, who was not referring to Afrikaans, but rather demonstrating his ignorance of Africa by assuming everybody speaks one language throughout the continent.
“As is easy to imagine they have no chance of getting a visa. Whereas, in your view, Quebecers and Afrikaanders should be let into the country no questions asked. That’s simply discriminatory and unjustifiable. Full stop.”
I did not say that. In my post I specified “capable” Scandinavian and Dutch speakers of English. Many Quebeckers, as you know, wouldn’t be up to the task either. I would be happy to see a far greater emphasis placed on qualifications/certifications for native speakers - or other - teachers of English in Korea. Ultimately, it should come down to merit, native speaker or not. Unfortunately, that won’t, for the most part anyway, happen here.
“But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.”
Can’t blame them. I have plenty of extended family - my grandfather was born in Capetown - who have moved to Canada, Australia, New Zealand or other countries. Safety would appear to be the main motivation. Who decreed that foreign teachers of English in Korea have to contribute to teh development of their own nation? What does that have to do with accent, teaching ability, etc?
Globalvillage:
“But those South Africans who go to Korea to teach English are unlikely to contribute to the positive development of their own nation. They are unlikely to ever return to SA, but will rather move on to third countries. Or so the statistical evidence shows.” (my own statement)
“Who decreed that foreign teachers of English in Korea have to contribute to the development of their own nation?” (your comment)
Nobody at all. This statement of mine was a refutation of Sumo294’s comment who seems to be implying that South Africans should be preferred to Scandinavians because this might somehow further the development of the African continent. While I believe that the development of Africa is indeed a goal of the utmost importance I do not believe it can be achieved in this way.
I agree with your other observations.
Well, Fantasy, you’re grasp of English, or at least your ability to write in it, appears to be superior to that of most English native speakers.
Typo…Just noticed it.
From: CEO, Koreafilms Inc.
To: Ms. Charlize Theron, Hollywood, USA
Dear Ms. Theron,
It is my unpleasant duty to inform you that we are cancelling your contract to appear in our new film “ESL Sonata”. Unfortunately the part of “Maggie” requires a native English speaker. Our Attorney informs us that you are a South African. It is well known in Korea that South Africans do not speak English as their native tongue. Moreover, our office in Cape Town confirms that your patronym is Afrikaaner. As an African, there are few Korean films which could offer you a starring role, however convincingly you may dye your hair. Our “Maggie” must not only have a flawless English accent, she must be a bonafide blonde with blue eyes.
In closing, we appreciate your interest in our film, and we will forward your impressive cv to our sister company in Nairobi.
Thanks, Someguy, I appreciate the compliment. I did not mean to start an online feud against you, Quebecers, or francophone Canadians in general.
The background to my harsh reaction is the fact that, several years ago, I was fired from a job in Germany by my (francophone) Canadian boss because of his conviction that my ability to communicate in English (not French!) was insufficient and that, in his view, only a native speaker of English would do. As is easy to imagine, the allegation (made by someone who spoke English with a heavy French accent and constantly slipped French words into his speeches held in English) that my linguistic ability was not up to scratch deeply hurt my feelings.
I took the case to the employment tribunal of the city of Cologne, Germany, which found that a francophone Quebecer was not in a position to judge whether my English was good enough for the job, and thus they ruled that I was entitled to compensation. Some consolation, at least, but insufficient to alleviate the feeling of profound humiliation…
I’ve long found a new (and better) job, but the episode is still haunting me…
Ms. Charlize Theron seems to have undergone specific training in American English after she came to the States at age 18 - otherwise she would not be able to speak the way she does…
A great actress, by the way !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlize_Theron